- 04-11-2013, 05:45 PM
- 04-12-2013, 03:18 PM
I'm not saying that people don't automatically jump to that conclusion, many probably do. All I'm saying, having suffered from it and researched it, chronic overtraining puts tremendous stress on your body and elicits a surge in stress hormones which are produced by the adrenals and that in turn has a plethora of downstream actions upon many sub-systems of the body. The adrenals are working harder, utilising more materials for the manufacture of the hormones. Is it that much of a leap to think that overworked adrenals would begin to tire?
04-12-2013, 08:37 PM
04-13-2013, 12:08 PM
04-14-2013, 02:18 AM
04-14-2013, 05:53 AM
04-14-2013, 07:23 AM
04-15-2013, 01:07 AM
04-15-2013, 01:49 AM
The fact that sometimes you feel better then train heavy and end up in the same spot as before proves it.
How about you rest for a few weeks then hit the gym 3x a week or even 2 if you feel tired. Eat when you hungry a balanced nutritious meal. If you hungry 8 times then eat 8 times, the amount of meals doesnt matter eating when you hungry does. If you are not hungry then dont eat.
When you go to the gym dont max out all the time, lift enough to feel the stress but not too heavy that by the end of the workout you wiped out. If by the end of your workout you dont feel refreshed and feel down right ****ty then you workout too much or too hard.
So if you can bench 225 for 1 rep then do 135 for 10 reps 3 sets. Dont be in the gym for more than 30-45min. Cardio cut it down to 1-2x a week if you still want to do it, on days you not lifting. If you feel tired those days you scheduled to lift or cardio then go home eat something and relax and go to sleep. Save it for another day. Skip that workout and go to the next one coming up.
See how that goes and report back.
04-16-2013, 03:35 AM
Final point - this is a recognised condition among top-level exercise and nutritional scientists. There is a paper published by England's rugby nutritionist and excercise scientist.
04-16-2013, 03:37 AM
04-16-2013, 10:09 AM
04-16-2013, 10:33 AM
Went to my Doc.with some of the same feelings of being burned out. He also said it is not recognized as of yet the Term Adrenal Fatigue, but it will in the future as it becomes more understood. I had the 24 hr. cortisol test done every six months for two years now. The first test I had morning and afternoon cortisol levels that barley showed on the scale (very low), been supplmenting with some of the herbs suggested above in thread. He also suggested to quit pushing so hard in all aspects of life and sleep as much as possible and SLOW down life stresses. My levels have steadly come up over the last two years and also been on C-pap for last 4 months and am starting to really get my energy back. Just my experience so far.......
04-16-2013, 10:38 AM
04-16-2013, 10:39 AM
Adrenal fatigue is 99% fiction, and based on the concept of tolerance. When you supplement with caffeine, the body upregulates hepatic CYP enzymes which are oriented at deactivating caffeine. Naturally, in order to produce an equivalent effect, you have to supplement with more and more caffeine. Similarly, the body upregulates central adenosine receptors and so caffeine literally decreases in potency. If you decrease your dose of caffeine, or cease administration, you will have a withdrawl period (headaches, fatigue) which is simply due to the latter mechanism. Eventually, the adenosine receptors downregulate and you return to baseline.
Fitness "experts" don't understand biology/pharmacology, and blame "adrenal fatigue." Others are trying to make money off of peoples ignorance (i.e. adrenal fatigue supplements).
Animal studies have clearly shown that the only way to produce adrenal medulla insufficiency is to physically denervate the organ. You can produce temporary adrenal medulla atrophy with longstanding absence of leptin, cortisol, or corticotropin. The latter two can be induced with exogenous supplementation of glucocorticoids (i.e. prednisone), although the main effect will be directed towards the adrenal cortex (i.e. actual adrenal insufficiency).
Im sure your malnutrition would also account for a whole host of problems as well, including majorly decreased testosterone production.
Controlled Labs Warder
Powercage [at] controlledlabs.com
04-16-2013, 12:54 PM
04-17-2013, 09:35 AM
I am going with what my Doc. tells me on this one... I have labs results and the way I feel to go on. I,m no Dr. and doubt U are either so again this is MY results, have U read the bood called Adrenal Fatigue ??? I cant remember th author at the moment, I will find the book and post if anyone is interested.... Its a pretty interesting read.
04-17-2013, 09:47 AM
04-17-2013, 02:24 PM
04-17-2013, 03:42 PM
04-17-2013, 09:17 PM
04-20-2013, 09:12 AM
On the topic of caffeine tolerance, what's your experience with "cycling" stimulants? I.e., once the relevant adenosine receptors are upregulated (= you've achieved "caffeine dependency"), how much correlation will there be with tolerance for other stimulants, such as ephedrine, 1,3-dmaa, or synephrine?
I know that there are more formal units in which this could be measured, but let's just say a 0-10 scale, where...
0 = the receptors for each drug are completely independent; i.e., even if you are coked on 12 cups of coffee a day, a tiny dose of ephedra/dmaa/etc will get you just as "wired" as if you were a caffeine-free Mormon.
10 = they all activate the same receptors, making them interchangeable—all the same tolerance, sorry Charlie, but you've just got to cut them all out for a while.
Any idea where each of those three stimulants would be on the scale of 0-10?
If any of them were close to 0, then withdrawing from caffeine would simply be a matter of switching to another stimulant. If they're all close to 10, then take a weekend in the woods, pull the shades, and sleep off those 3 days of headaches.
You seem to ... actually know what you're talking about, here, so your opinion is valuable here.
04-20-2013, 09:53 AM
At some point you are going to have to cycle off everything (most likely). But you are right, certain ingredients work in different manners so switching to another would potentially make you feel something again. Ill give two simple examples without getting super technical:
For instance DMAA is a reuptake inhibitor, whereas PEA displaces norepinephrine within the vesicles of the axon terminal.
So if you've taken PEA for a while and dont feel anything, you could switch to DMAA and still feel something. And actually caffeine may be exactly what you want to take to help get rid of some PEA tolerance (which is nice to know since PEA tolerance takes forever to reset).
When in doubt, cycle off everything.
Controlled Labs Warder
Powercage [at] controlledlabs.com
04-20-2013, 10:24 AM
Thanks, PC. That agrees with my (highly anecdotal and poorly controlled) empirical evidence. (And, if more guys would apply your last sentence to relationship decisions... yeah.)
So one consequence, then, would be that SINGLE-stimulant supplements are, theoretically, better in the long run than combined/"stacked" supplements?
Say, a pure 1,3-dmaa pill (like SNS AdrenaG), or a pure ephedrine sulfate pill (Bronkaid). As opposed to 99% of the stims out there, which are just a giant minestrone of everything, especially the caffeine.
Let me know what you think of that idea. If that's a thing, then that's theoretically revolutionary—an enterprising fellow could probably make millions, and help a lot of people reverse tolerances along the way, by selling a specific sequence of stim's as a cycle. Say 4-6 week pyramid of PEA, 6-8 week pyramid of caffeine, and 4-6 week pyramid of synephrine or dmaa.
Hmm. Possible public service + business opportunity here? Let me know what you think.
Thanks for your time, by the way—as a doctor who also works out, I bet you don't have a lot of it to spare.
04-20-2013, 11:15 PM
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