The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    Yeh I have found that shortening my feeding window is not as bad as I thought it would be. I tried it out on my last cardio day and it was easy. I just broke my fast an hour later and ended my feeding an hour earlier. 6 hour window was cake and I will probably do it more often
    I shorten mine all the time. Some days, there's just no other option because I'm too busy or on rare occasions, I'll hit my calorie goal before my time is up, so I just stop then.


  2. Hmmm interesting
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    Yeh I have found that shortening my feeding window is not as bad as I thought it would be. I tried it out on my last cardio day and it was easy. I just broke my fast an hour later and ended my feeding an hour earlier. 6 hour window was cake and I will probably do it more often
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnRock View Post
    I shorten mine all the time. Some days, there's just no other option because I'm too busy or on rare occasions, I'll hit my calorie goal before my time is up, so I just stop then.
    Absolutely Gentlemen! I agree completely. I have no need for the full 8 hour window on most of my rest days. I feel after yesterday I hit the money train with the big 1000 + calorie lunch then having a small meal later in the day. I went about 200 cals over my planned 1500 because I made the family some grilled cheese sandwiches and decided one wouldn't hurt me. Guess what it didn't. However that big meal kept me squared away until about 7 then I had a shake and then the sandwich. Today is an eat day and I am gonna cram in some quality foods today. I am getting ready to do some deads in the garage then wake the wife up to go finish legs of at the gym. I will break my fast after the workout and then it is on!
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  4. Just finished my sprints this morning and I'm enjoying a delicious shake of coconut milk, oats, vanilla whey, and banana totaling around 1200 calories.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by JohnRock View Post
    Just finished my sprints this morning and I'm enjoying a delicious shake of coconut milk, oats, vanilla whey, and banana totaling around 1200 calories.
    Nice! That sounds amazing too!
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by JohnRock View Post
    Just finished my sprints this morning and I'm enjoying a delicious shake of coconut milk, oats, vanilla whey, and banana totaling around 1200 calories.
    My fav is a cup of coconut milk, tbsp coconut oil, cup blueberries and some vanilla protein (egg, whey, or cassein) It is amazing! I also use pineapples sometimes instead of blueberries for sort of a pina colada twist
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  7. Quote Originally Posted by JohnRock View Post
    I shorten mine all the time. Some days, there's just no other option because I'm too busy or on rare occasions, I'll hit my calorie goal before my time is up, so I just stop then.
    I'm kinda in the same boat and I actually like doing a shortened window on the rest days. The caloric goal is much smaller than training days so its easy to hit that target early
    Recoverbro Elite
    "This is what we've been working on"

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Do you track your calories to know you're at 2K, or do you guesstimate? If you track, what did you eat today?
    Morning - Before work
    2 Yougurt - 200 cal, 10 pro, 38 carb, 0 fat
    Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat
    Fish Oil
    Multi-V

    Snack 1
    Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 173 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

    Lunch
    Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 172 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat
    Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat

    Snack 2
    Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 172 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

    Snack 3
    Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 173 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

    PWO
    Protein Shake - 280 cal, 54 pro, 6 carb, 0 fat

    1250 Calories, 140g Protein, 90g Carbs, 36g Fat
    This is before dinner, where I eat some chicken, turkey, tuna, lean type of meat with veggies

    I eat the same thing everyday, now if I were to put this into IF how would you all recommend that to look?

  9. Where do you guys get your numbers (calories) for what you should take in on a training day vs. a non-training day? I am sure this is goal dependent (LG, recomp, cut), and I'm interested in all 3. I tried to find this info on LG but I'm coming up short. If someone could hook me up with a link I'd appreciate it, or if they could put an answer for those 3 goals that'd be great, too.

    On another note, is one still trying to hit say around 1.2-1.5 g protein/lb on IF?

    During the fasting period, I read in here (Anabolicminds.com) people drank BCAAs, but on the LG site it seems to suggest you're straight up fasting, not eating anything except the occasional diet coke, coffee, or whatever. The exception would be if you train in the A.M. Is this true, i.e. if I train in the evening (5pm) does that I mean I would go from wake to about 12-2pm without drinking anything, or would I sip on BCAAs in the meantime?

    Lastly (this is more of a poll-type question more than anything), anybody else here use IF and not take in a lot of carbs pre-workout, but still take in a decent overall amount of carbs (if you train in the A.M., don't answer this)? I ask because in a way, I'm not carb sensitive. That is, I operate well taking in over 100g carbs a day, which I guess is still low. However, I have experimented with eating carbs throughout various meals in the day before my afternoon workout, and I've experienced ZERO benefit from this. In fact, I usually will put on fat or lose less fat if I substitute fats in my pre-workout meals with carbs. Anybody else like this?

    That's all, and thanks for any help.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    Where do you guys get your numbers (calories) for what you should take in on a training day vs. a non-training day? I am sure this is goal dependent (LG, recomp, cut), and I'm interested in all 3. I tried to find this info on LG but I'm coming up short. If someone could hook me up with a link I'd appreciate it, or if they could put an answer for those 3 goals that'd be great, too.
    He doesn't put out specific numbers or calories because he's "saving it for the book" -- but who knows when that will finally come out. The only real suggestions I've come across are to determine what your resting expenditure is and then adjust from there based on your goals.

    I think LG is +20% calories on training days and -20% calories on rest days. From there you can adjust the calories if you wanted to focus more on bulking or cutting. Again, sorry I can't give specific calorie totals but I really don't ever see them proposed on LG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    On another note, is one still trying to hit say around 1.2-1.5 g protein/lb on IF?
    Yeah, MB always emphasizes it. The philosophy on a cut is that out of two diets equal in calorie content, the one with more protein will result in less fat storage. MB has the study somewhere on his blog; it might be linked from the 'alcohol damage control' post.

    I usually end up right about 1g/1lb bodyweight; slightly more on training days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    During the fasting period, I read in here (Anabolicminds.com) people drank BCAAs, but on the LG site it seems to suggest you're straight up fasting, not eating anything except the occasional diet coke, coffee, or whatever. The exception would be if you train in the A.M. Is this true, i.e. if I train in the evening (5pm) does that I mean I would go from wake to about 12-2pm without drinking anything, or would I sip on BCAAs in the meantime?
    I don't use BCAAs except for immediately pre-cardio and pre-workout (both of which come right before my FIRST meal). Some guys on here use BCAAs throughout the day, although I've had substantial success without utilizing them so frequently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    Lastly (this is more of a poll-type question more than anything), anybody else here use IF and not take in a lot of carbs pre-workout, but still take in a decent overall amount of carbs (if you train in the A.M., don't answer this)? I ask because in a way, I'm not carb sensitive. That is, I operate well taking in over 100g carbs a day, which I guess is still low. However, I have experimented with eating carbs throughout various meals in the day before my afternoon workout, and I've experienced ZERO benefit from this. In fact, I usually will put on fat or lose less fat if I substitute fats in my pre-workout meals with carbs. Anybody else like this?

    That's all, and thanks for any help.
    I take in zero carbs preWO and eat ~200 in the hours after I train (usually finish lifting around 8:00PM). This works out great for me sicne I feel less energized after eating carbs -- you might be the same way!

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    He doesn't put out specific numbers or calories because he's "saving it for the book" -- but who knows when that will finally come out. The only real suggestions I've come across are to determine what your resting expenditure is and then adjust from there based on your goals.

    I think LG is +20% calories on training days and -20% calories on rest days. From there you can adjust the calories if you wanted to focus more on bulking or cutting. Again, sorry I can't give specific calorie totals but I really don't ever see them proposed on LG.



    Yeah, MB always emphasizes it. The philosophy on a cut is that out of two diets equal in calorie content, the one with more protein will result in less fat storage. MB has the study somewhere on his blog; it might be linked from the 'alcohol damage control' post.

    I usually end up right about 1g/1lb bodyweight; slightly more on training days.



    I don't use BCAAs except for immediately pre-cardio and pre-workout (both of which come right before my FIRST meal). Some guys on here use BCAAs throughout the day, although I've had substantial success without utilizing them so frequently.



    I take in zero carbs preWO and eat ~200 in the hours after I train (usually finish lifting around 8:00PM). This works out great for me sicne I feel less energized after eating carbs -- you might be the same way!
    AMAZING response. Thank you very much.

    Yeah, about my first question regarding calories - I was actually looking for the answer you gave. I totally forgot to clarify that I wanted it in terms of maintenance numbers, not like 3700 calories, for instance, as everyone is different.

    This feedback at least gives me a pretty good base to experiment with this protocol. By the way, I used to use fitday's calculator to find out my cals and macronutrient breakdown. But what sucks is, at least with the free or online version, you can only do that for a day. So as soon as it's Monday, for instance, my calculations disappear, or I have to scroll all the way back through a digi calendar to the date I made the calculations. Is there a better website out there to do this on?

  12. Why not use a combination of fitday and a spreadsheet?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    AMAZING response. Thank you very much.

    Yeah, about my first question regarding calories - I was actually looking for the answer you gave. I totally forgot to clarify that I wanted it in terms of maintenance numbers, not like 3700 calories, for instance, as everyone is different.

    This feedback at least gives me a pretty good base to experiment with this protocol. By the way, I used to use fitday's calculator to find out my cals and macronutrient breakdown. But what sucks is, at least with the free or online version, you can only do that for a day. So as soon as it's Monday, for instance, my calculations disappear, or I have to scroll all the way back through a digi calendar to the date I made the calculations. Is there a better website out there to do this on?
    Happy to help! Actually, here is a link to a PDF MB wrote that describes some details of the approach and includes the information on the +20%/-20% framework.

    I'm not up to date with the online calorie trackers (I've seen been less diligent in tracking exact foods and daily calories) but I agree with Easy; you could create a FitDay-esque setup in Excel and you would be good to go. Plus, you could use functions to find averages or totals or whatever else you wanted should the need ever arise.

  14. i usually work out after meal 2.

    eat a TON of spaghetti and chicken and an extra serving of banana and strawberries ......then the next day Eggs instead of the spaghetti and less bananas and strawberries. my weights staying the same roughly but im getting leaner i believe and a huge guy i work with told me im getting bigger today. all while my bro is eating fried chicken , doritos and candy and maintaining leanness using IF.

    on a side note : diphenhydramine is the WORST negatively body compositioning drug out there. i was taking 150mg a night to sleep and enjoy the sedated feeling and i NOTICEABLY became more vascular, and took off fat when i stopped taking it. im on day 6 without it. i read it blunts T release and GH release..which makes sense now. not to mention the hell it plays on the stomach/GI tract.

    just a tip for those using the benadryl to upregular betas
    For me, the action IS the juice.

  15. So do any of you do heavy manual labour (8-14+hours) with this diet during the day not including training?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    I'm kinda in the same boat and I actually like doing a shortened window on the rest days. The caloric goal is much smaller than training days so its easy to hit that target early
    yah I like that idea, it's easier to extend the fast than spread less calories over 8 hours... I tried that Saturday and was pleased with the result.

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Why not use a combination of fitday and a spreadsheet?
    Yah that's how I do it...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  17. This is horrible IMO

    Where's the meat and veggies?

    Fwiw, I eat more kcal than this in my pwo meal.

    Quote Originally Posted by xigotmailx View Post
    Morning - Before work
    2 Yougurt - 200 cal, 10 pro, 38 carb, 0 fat
    Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat
    Fish Oil
    Multi-V

    Snack 1
    Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 173 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

    Lunch
    Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 172 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat
    Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat

    Snack 2
    Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 172 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

    Snack 3
    Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 173 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

    PWO
    Protein Shake - 280 cal, 54 pro, 6 carb, 0 fat

    1250 Calories, 140g Protein, 90g Carbs, 36g Fat
    This is before dinner, where I eat some chicken, turkey, tuna, lean type of meat with veggies

    I eat the same thing everyday, now if I were to put this into IF how would you all recommend that to look?

  18. Quote Originally Posted by xigotmailx View Post
    Morning - Before work
    2 Yougurt - 200 cal, 10 pro, 38 carb, 0 fat
    Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat
    Fish Oil
    Multi-V

    Snack 1
    Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 173 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

    Lunch
    Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 172 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat
    Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat

    Snack 2
    Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 172 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

    Snack 3
    Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 173 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

    PWO
    Protein Shake - 280 cal, 54 pro, 6 carb, 0 fat

    1250 Calories, 140g Protein, 90g Carbs, 36g Fat
    This is before dinner, where I eat some chicken, turkey, tuna, lean type of meat with veggies

    I eat the same thing everyday, now if I were to put this into IF how would you all recommend that to look?
    Yikes, that's a lot of peanut butter and banana!

    Honestly, unless you're absolutely addicted, I would try to cut that down to a single snack between lunch and dinner and use the whole banana with NaturallyMore Peanut Butter for extra protein/omega-3/fiber.

    I also think you need more whole food protein sources up front, not relying on shakes so much until dinner.

    I think an IF diet would look more like this, though I'm no expert:

    12PM (fast break): 687 cal, 87g pro, 66g carb (14g fiber), 11g fat
    10oz tuna/chicken 333 cal, 73 pro, 0 carb, 4g fat
    1 cup brocolli 54 cal, 4g pro, 12g carb (6g fiber), 1g fat
    1 cup oats or sweet potato 300 cal, 10g pro, 54g carb (8g fiber), 6g fat

    3PM Snack: 505 cal, 21g pro, 39g carb (7g fiber), 30.5g fat
    1 banana 105 cal, 1g pro, 27g carb (3g fiber), .5g fat
    4Tbsp Naturally More PB 400cal, 20g pro, 12g carb (4g fiber), 30g fat

    PWO or 6PM Dinner: 654 cal, 76g pro, 82g carb (19g fiber), 7.5g fat
    10oz chicken/extra lean beef/fish 275 cal, 57.5g pro, 0g carb, 6g fat
    3 cups spinach 123 cal, 16g pro, 21g carb (13g fiber), 1.5g fat
    8oz baked sweet potato 256 cal, 2.4g pro, 61g carb (6g fiber), 0g fat

    7:30PM Dessert:
    Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat


    Totals: 1986 cal, 211g pro, 190g carb (40g fiber), 39g fat


    That's a more whole food approach to getting the protein in to feel satiated, and balanced in the 2000 calorie range. Of course on workout days you would go up 20%, and on rest days down 20%. This can be adjusted by increasing/decreasing serving sizes for carb and protein sources.

    Just thinking about this is making me hungry!!!

    Anyway, others can chime in, but I feel this would be a much better alternative using IF 16off/8on eating window.

    3 hours to go before I get to eat!!! 16oz curried Flounder waiting for me!!! NOM!
    NeedToBuildMuscle Representative / PowerChews Representative
    AgeForce Representative - www.ageforce.com for hGH Patches!
    Send me a PM with any questions about products & discount codes

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    Happy to help! Actually, here is a link to a PDF MB wrote that describes some details of the approach and includes the information on the +20%/-20% framework.

    I'm not up to date with the online calorie trackers (I've seen been less diligent in tracking exact foods and daily calories) but I agree with Easy; you could create a FitDay-esque setup in Excel and you would be good to go. Plus, you could use functions to find averages or totals or whatever else you wanted should the need ever arise.
    Thanks for the link, good info!

    I use Fitday.com, and it works alright. I try to make my estimates a little higher to help me control my eating, otherwise I'd easily eat way too much!

    Caloriecount.com seems like another decent one that has more "restaurant" and prepared food data. I cook almost all my food, so fitday works fine for me.
    NeedToBuildMuscle Representative / PowerChews Representative
    AgeForce Representative - www.ageforce.com for hGH Patches!
    Send me a PM with any questions about products & discount codes

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Yikes, that's a lot of peanut butter and banana!

    Honestly, unless you're absolutely addicted, I would try to cut that down to a single snack between lunch and dinner and use the whole banana with NaturallyMore Peanut Butter for extra protein/omega-3/fiber.

    I also think you need more whole food protein sources up front, not relying on shakes so much until dinner.

    I think an IF diet would look more like this, though I'm no expert:

    12PM (fast break): 687 cal, 87g pro, 66g carb (14g fiber), 11g fat
    10oz tuna/chicken 333 cal, 73 pro, 0 carb, 4g fat
    1 cup brocolli 54 cal, 4g pro, 12g carb (6g fiber), 1g fat
    1 cup oats or sweet potato 300 cal, 10g pro, 54g carb (8g fiber), 6g fat

    3PM Snack: 505 cal, 21g pro, 39g carb (7g fiber), 30.5g fat
    1 banana 105 cal, 1g pro, 27g carb (3g fiber), .5g fat
    4Tbsp Naturally More PB 400cal, 20g pro, 12g carb (4g fiber), 30g fat

    PWO or 6PM Dinner: 654 cal, 76g pro, 82g carb (19g fiber), 7.5g fat
    10oz chicken/extra lean beef/fish 275 cal, 57.5g pro, 0g carb, 6g fat
    3 cups spinach 123 cal, 16g pro, 21g carb (13g fiber), 1.5g fat
    8oz baked sweet potato 256 cal, 2.4g pro, 61g carb (6g fiber), 0g fat

    7:30PM Dessert:
    Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat


    Totals: 1986 cal, 211g pro, 190g carb (40g fiber), 39g fat


    That's a more whole food approach to getting the protein in to feel satiated, and balanced in the 2000 calorie range. Of course on workout days you would go up 20%, and on rest days down 20%. This can be adjusted by increasing/decreasing serving sizes for carb and protein sources.

    Just thinking about this is making me hungry!!!

    Anyway, others can chime in, but I feel this would be a much better alternative using IF 16off/8on eating window.

    3 hours to go before I get to eat!!! 16oz curried Flounder waiting for me!!! NOM!
    You're on very low calories for this regime. I am on recomp level 2800 and 2400 on nwd's..and losing quite a bit of fat.. could be our difference in weight too.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  21. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    You're on very low calories for this regime. I am on recomp level 2800 and 2400 on nwd's..and losing quite a bit of fat.. could be our difference in weight too.
    Oh, that's not for me, I was just trying to keep his diet within his specified range of 2K calories.

    My diet is a lot higher! I'm generally shooting for 3K-4k cal on workout days, depending on muscle group and if I add cardio or not. I'm trying to lean bulk. Bulk is working, staying relatively lean, but still putting on some fat (noticeable from where I was at contest weight 2 weeks ago). I've gone from 176.2lbs at weigh in to 189lbs last night. A lot of water and glycogen, but skin is getting a little looser around the tummy...

    Yesterday (off day, 2 cardio sessions) I was at 3,600 calories! A bit too high... but I was just too hungry to help myself! ARGH, food! Why does it have to taste so good! I wanted to be 20% below, but I couldn't do it being home surrounded by goodness like homemade blueberry pancakes!
    NeedToBuildMuscle Representative / PowerChews Representative
    AgeForce Representative - www.ageforce.com for hGH Patches!
    Send me a PM with any questions about products & discount codes

  22. Yesterday as an off day for me I managed to hold off on eating till 530pm, but then had a 20oz prime rib and potato, then some peanut butter fudge ice cream. quite nice

  23. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Yesterday as an off day for me I managed to hold off on eating till 530pm, but then had a 20oz prime rib and potato, then some peanut butter fudge ice cream. quite nice
    Yowzas!!!! Now thats a meal!

    I am going to be doing a static diet on my NWD of about 1800 cals. I have it set up and will expound upon it a little more in my log. But basically using a set diet plan those days so I don't have to think about what I am eating or what I need to do to get my nutrients in. I just need to follow the plan unless I have a major desire to deviate from it for some reason.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Blacktail View Post
    So do any of you do heavy manual labour (8-14+hours) with this diet during the day not including training?
    my brother does. he does it all fasted then comes home and eats at 5 till like 9 when he goes to bed.
    For me, the action IS the juice.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Oh, that's not for me, I was just trying to keep his diet within his specified range of 2K calories.

    My diet is a lot higher! I'm generally shooting for 3K-4k cal on workout days, depending on muscle group and if I add cardio or not. I'm trying to lean bulk. Bulk is working, staying relatively lean, but still putting on some fat (noticeable from where I was at contest weight 2 weeks ago). I've gone from 176.2lbs at weigh in to 189lbs last night. A lot of water and glycogen, but skin is getting a little looser around the tummy...

    Yesterday (off day, 2 cardio sessions) I was at 3,600 calories! A bit too high... but I was just too hungry to help myself! ARGH, food! Why does it have to taste so good! I wanted to be 20% below, but I couldn't do it being home surrounded by goodness like homemade blueberry pancakes!
    ahhh gotcha yah figured you could pack away the groceries....
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug
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