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  1. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    So i've got an IF question that I need a non-judgemental answer on I moderately often (2-3 times a week) have a couple of glasses of wine or a few beers in the evening. They come after the end of my normal feeding window of 12-8 though. So the question is should I start my feed later the following day to make for a 16 hour fast? or should I start eating later on the day I expect to have a few drinks so that its still an 8 hour window? or any other suggestions
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Milas, he can easily lose weight by guestimating IF HE HAS SOME IDEA ALREADY OFWHAT HE TAKES IN A DAY. Not yelling at you there, more stressing to others reading this that is the only way estimation works successfully. I can estimate my calories with pretty good success by keeping a basic tally in my head of grams of protein and what not. However I have been doing it long enough to know what a serving of this, or a serving of that contains and looks like. I can go over or under but the overall trend works just fine for leaning up without any obsession over accurate intakes. It is definitely what is required for continual success once in the lower levels of body fat and when trying to gain LBM without adding fat once already lean. However in the general weight loss / recomp situation for most people the estimations if based off of true familiarity with the nutrients in the food eaten is going to yeild great results.

    Xigot, If you are taking in 2000 a day as a starting point I would try 1250 and 2500 for a starting point give it 2 weeks and see what adjustments you think you need.
    Right, not everyone is going to track calories or food daily, but if you're just starting out and guess a double quarter pounder is 200-300 calories, you're going to be way off!

    I think a lot of folks would be surprised by the caloric content of normal food. When I spout off to "normal" people, they're amazed at how much they actually eat. Those who actually MAKE changes write down what they eat for a few days to see where they are "normally." From there you adjust. If you're working from a moving baseline, what adjustments do you make? Eat less, move more?

    I agree though, once you're comfortable and making progress guesstimating is the likely approach people will take. Even vets can get surprised at times though when they slack off a bit...
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Right, not everyone is going to track calories or food daily, but if you're just starting out and guess a double quarter pounder is 200-300 calories, you're going to be way off!

    I think a lot of folks would be surprised by the caloric content of normal food. When I spout off to "normal" people, they're amazed at how much they actually eat. Those who actually MAKE changes write down what they eat for a few days to see where they are "normally." From there you adjust. If you're working from a moving baseline, what adjustments do you make? Eat less, move more?

    I agree though, once you're comfortable and making progress guesstimating is the likely approach people will take. Even vets can get surprised at times though when they slack off a bit...
    I am counting cuz it's easy enough with fitday... I like to plan and see how much I can squeeze in. I know how to guestimate too but I can get a lot out of manipulating my diet to get some extra goodies in here and there...

  4. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    I am counting cuz it's easy enough with fitday... I like to plan and see how much I can squeeze in. I know how to guestimate too but I can get a lot out of manipulating my diet to get some extra goodies in here and there...
    I'm the same as you!
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Right, not everyone is going to track calories or food daily, but if you're just starting out and guess a double quarter pounder is 200-300 calories, you're going to be way off!

    I think a lot of folks would be surprised by the caloric content of normal food. When I spout off to "normal" people, they're amazed at how much they actually eat. Those who actually MAKE changes write down what they eat for a few days to see where they are "normally." From there you adjust. If you're working from a moving baseline, what adjustments do you make? Eat less, move more?

    I agree though, once you're comfortable and making progress guesstimating is the likely approach people will take. Even vets can get surprised at times though when they slack off a bit...
    Amen! I have done that before. Normally though I know I am slacking on my food choices then things pile up and I am getting soft before i know it and have to curb the food choices. However like we both agree on a person must KNOW the food before estimation can be done. Now I do think the person counting at all times will be able to acheive their goals more quickly. However I truly enjoy having the freedom of knowing that estimating works better with the IF approach of eating for me than a typical diet.

    Oh and yeah you aint kidding thinking a burger has 300 cals is way off. I think a whopper is listed as having 30 grams of fat alone that is 270 cals not including protein or carbs.
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  6. You know I say i don't track but you can ask me on most days what I have had to eat and even though I haven't weighed everything out I know what I have eaten. I also know a very good estimate, within an ounce above or below on the meats. Part of that is due to convenient eating the other is due to me eating many of the same foods over and over. I like to get a lot of my protein from chicken breast, 7p, 1.5 f per Oz, Salmon 7p and 3-5g fat per oz, Lean Beef Bottom ROund fat trimmed, 7p 1.5-2 f, protein powder 1 scoop 23p, 2.5f, 3c. Tuna, 26p 1.5 f per can.

    I guess I shouldn't give the impression that my estimating is not done off of specifics as it is. I am only estimating the exact weight of the foods. That and when i have mixed foods that others prepare I can only estimate at that point.
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    You know I say i don't track but you can ask me on most days what I have had to eat and even though I haven't weighed everything out I know what I have eaten. I also know a very good estimate, within an ounce above or below on the meats. Part of that is due to convenient eating the other is due to me eating many of the same foods over and over. I like to get a lot of my protein from chicken breast, 7p, 1.5 f per Oz, Salmon 7p and 3-5g fat per oz, Lean Beef Bottom ROund fat trimmed, 7p 1.5-2 f, protein powder 1 scoop 23p, 2.5f, 3c. Tuna, 26p 1.5 f per can.

    I guess I shouldn't give the impression that my estimating is not done off of specifics as it is. I am only estimating the exact weight of the foods. That and when i have mixed foods that others prepare I can only estimate at that point.
    Yah I knew that, and my situation is very different, plus I am having fun with it... I know my estimation can be out by 100 cals or so and that is 1/2 cup of frozen yogurt...

  8. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    You know I say i don't track but you can ask me on most days what I have had to eat and even though I haven't weighed everything out I know what I have eaten. I also know a very good estimate, within an ounce above or below on the meats. Part of that is due to convenient eating the other is due to me eating many of the same foods over and over. I like to get a lot of my protein from chicken breast, 7p, 1.5 f per Oz, Salmon 7p and 3-5g fat per oz, Lean Beef Bottom ROund fat trimmed, 7p 1.5-2 f, protein powder 1 scoop 23p, 2.5f, 3c. Tuna, 26p 1.5 f per can.

    I guess I shouldn't give the impression that my estimating is not done off of specifics as it is. I am only estimating the exact weight of the foods. That and when i have mixed foods that others prepare I can only estimate at that point.
    Yep, I'm with you on that! Same here, though I do love to weigh stuff on my nutrition scales from time to time!
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Yep, I'm with you on that! Same here, though I do love to weigh stuff on my nutrition scales from time to time!
    For sure. You have to recalibrate so to speak. Even a doctors triple beam scale needs to be recalibrated every once in a while so do our "eyeballing" scales. That and when i get a cut of meat I am not familiar with I will drop the cut of meat on the scale before cooking it. Then I cut it accordingly when cooked. However the meats I get from Sam's are all cut pretty uniformly. In general the round bottom steaks are 8-9 oz without fail. After 10 or so trays of them you just get to know it and the ones that don't fit into that range are visually obvious and get weighed. I love to hit up a lb of round steak for a fast breaking meal too!!!! Yeah I know it is tough meat but I season it and put tenderizer and marinade on it then I beat the hell out of it before I put it in the freezer. Then pull it out let thow slowly and toss it on the foreman grill.
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  10. i dont know if ive ever been so excited about a way of eating as this in my life. I actually understand what people are talking about here. I also think this is something I can actually handle and it fits my schedule! Man Im pumped
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by freezito View Post
    i dont know if ive ever been so excited about a way of eating as this in my life. I actually understand what people are talking about here. I also think this is something I can actually handle and it fits my schedule! Man Im pumped
    Wait till you see the results...

  12. Man I can feel them already, lol! im doing lots of reading, looking at as many logs as I can and writing the important stuff down and figuring it all out and how it will best suit me

  13. Yep, I'm with you on that! Same here, though I do love to weigh stuff on my nutrition scales from time to time!


    For sure. You have to recalibrate so to speak. Even a doctors triple beam scale needs to be recalibrated every once in a while so do our "eyeballing" scales. That and when i get a cut of meat I am not familiar with I will drop the cut of meat on the scale before cooking it. Then I cut it accordingly when cooked. However the meats I get from Sam's are all cut pretty uniformly. In general the round bottom steaks are 8-9 oz without fail. After 10 or so trays of them you just get to know it and the ones that don't fit into that range are visually obvious and get weighed. I love to hit up a lb of round steak for a fast breaking meal too!!!! Yeah I know it is tough meat but I season it and put tenderizer and marinade on it then I beat the hell out of it before I put it in the freezer. Then pull it out let thow slowly and toss it on the foreman grill.
    Yep, I'm with you on that! Same here, though I do love to weigh stuff on my nutrition scales from time to time!


    For sure. You have to recalibrate so to speak. Even a doctors triple beam scale needs to be recalibrated every once in a while so do our "eyeballing" scales. That and when i get a cut of meat I am not familiar with I will drop the cut of meat on the scale before cooking it. Then I cut it accordingly when cooked. However the meats I get from Sam's are all cut pretty uniformly. In general the round bottom steaks are 8-9 oz without fail. After 10 or so trays of them you just get to know it and the ones that don't fit into that range are visually obvious and get weighed. I love to hit up a lb of round steak for a fast breaking meal too!!!! Yeah I know it is tough meat but I season it and put tenderizer and marinade on it then I beat the hell out of it before I put it in the freezer. Then pull it out let thow slowly and toss it on the foreman grill.

    I'm the same way. Having been a chef I got to where I could eye ball and "feel" oz weights and what not. I don't count cals, but if u ask me, ill be Damn close.
    This is a good, easy to understand way to approach a recomp as well bc exactness isn't necessary due to the heavy lifting. Get into the ballpark with cals, know your macros and get them from healthy sources and you are well on your way to shredding IMO.

    Oh yeah........foremans FTFW!!!
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  14. Wait until you add SD to the fasting (J/k)

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Wait until you add SD to the fasting (J/k)
    No way you would do SD as a pulse for this for sure!!!! Only on lift days. Well that is what I would do if I were going to push that heavy or hard again. I am done with really harsh orals though. I am about to run a mild progesterone with it so we shall see just what happens there.
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    So i've got an IF question that I need a non-judgemental answer on I moderately often (2-3 times a week) have a couple of glasses of wine or a few beers in the evening. They come after the end of my normal feeding window of 12-8 though. So the question is should I start my feed later the following day to make for a 16 hour fast? or should I start eating later on the day I expect to have a few drinks so that its still an 8 hour window? or any other suggestions
    I know that limiting alcohol to once per week is suggested for ideal fat loss as the outlines for your macros are pretty different for that day -- just for what it's worth. Here is his blog on alcohol and mitigating fat accumulation: http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/tru...nd-muscle.html

    **You can read a ton about it there as his recommendations are supported with heavy detail. In essence, he suggests high protein (a lot) and low fat/carb the day you choose to drink -- and that it should occur on a rest day.

    Back to your question, I've seen him respond to similar questions by saying you should still start your feeding window at your regular time, even if it does shorten the 16 hour time frame. If it's doable, you could probably drink a bit earlier (30-60 min) or starting your feed a bit later (30-60 min) the next day in order to work your way back to normal though.

    I believe his rationale has to do with the regulation of ghrelin (and possibly other hormones) and the body's tendency to feel hungry at roughly the same time every day (before the feed window). Keeping the start time the same is supposed to reinforce that concept.

  17. Easy, I have a couple drinks throughout the week. Right now, it's frankly necessary to just keep me sane and let me relax. Ain't nobody taking away my Guinness and St. Arnolds right now - I'll kill ya.

    I just do pretty much what Red Dog says: I replace the fats and carbs with alcohol. I actually didn't know this was what LG suggested - I was just going by what my crazy logic would dictate.
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  18. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Yeah, my isssue isn't so much about the calories as that the drinking goes past 8pm when I should end feeding. I guess I could shift to diet dr pepper and sailor jerry, at least it minimizes the calories then
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  19. Sailor Jerry FTW!!!!! If you like off brands that are as good or better than the stuff they mimic and you are a fan of Crown Royal or Crown Royal Reserve then you have to try Forty Creek, the regular stuff is better than the Crown Royal Reserve, and is about 2 dollars less per 5th than regular crown. So better than Crown Reserve but 2$ cheaper than regular Crown very worth trying.

    I tend to try to drink spirits when I drink anyway. However one thing to consider is honestly if you are not competing is it going to trouble you that much to have an extra drink after your fast ends? Probably not too much. If the meal is of decent size it would be silly to think that the food you ate an hour or so ago is done digesting, or leaking nutrients into the body. The alchohal will process faster because the body sees the acetate as a poison that needs to be processed quickly so it shouldn't effect that much. Just be safer on it. Alternatively if you are doing that 3-4 nights a week then yeah change your hours on your fasting. Fast until 2 and then eat until 10, top the night off with by shotgunning a beer, slamming 2 shots and a couple scoops of protein powder.
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Yeah, my isssue isn't so much about the calories as that the drinking goes past 8pm when I should end feeding. I guess I could shift to diet dr pepper and sailor jerry, at least it minimizes the calories then
    yeah man, just shift your eating window to later in the day a bit. LG originally was supposed to be fasting until 4pm and eating until midnight, which allows for such splurges a bit better than an earlier cutoff time.
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  21. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    The downside to shifting my window that far is that I can only get to the gym at 7am, so not eating till 4 would be 8 hours still fasted post workout. Maybe 2pm would work though thru 10.
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    The downside to shifting my window that far is that I can only get to the gym at 7am, so not eating till 4 would be 8 hours still fasted post workout. Maybe 2pm would work though thru 10.
    I would be a total mess if I did that. No food post-workout makes me incredibly irritable and anxious real quick.

    Hmmm...

    Are you open to the idea of drinking in the morning? Could make your commute more tolerable

    Seriously though, I'd do a decent post-workout shake with some berries or something, then fast until later in the day.
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  23. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    I'm not doing too badly going till 12, ill try to see if going till 2 works
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I'm not doing too badly going till 12, ill try to see if going till 2 works
    Initial hunger will hit but it only sticks around for maybe 20 minutes max and then goes away for several hours again. If you can just distract yourself during those times it wont be so bad just make yourself think about something other than being hungry and the next thing you know you your aren't hungry any more. I originally thought I would have a lot of trouble waiting until Noon and I workout at 4:30, I just take aminos at 4:15, 6:30, then ever 2.5 or so hours untilI eat at noon or sometimes 1:00 it just depends. It is working well for me. However if it doesn't suit you then a 40-50 grams protein and 50g carbs meal or shake post workout and then begin your feeding window later. May even enable you to start really feeding at 2 or even 4pm.
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Initial hunger will hit but it only sticks around for maybe 20 minutes max and then goes away for several hours again. If you can just distract yourself during those times it wont be so bad just make yourself think about something other than being hungry and the next thing you know you your aren't hungry any more. I originally thought I would have a lot of trouble waiting until Noon and I workout at 4:30, I just take aminos at 4:15, 6:30, then ever 2.5 or so hours untilI eat at noon or sometimes 1:00 it just depends. It is working well for me. However if it doesn't suit you then a 40-50 grams protein and 50g carbs meal or shake post workout and then begin your feeding window later. May even enable you to start really feeding at 2 or even 4pm.
    Yeh I have found that shortening my feeding window is not as bad as I thought it would be. I tried it out on my last cardio day and it was easy. I just broke my fast an hour later and ended my feeding an hour earlier. 6 hour window was cake and I will probably do it more often
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  26. Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    Yeh I have found that shortening my feeding window is not as bad as I thought it would be. I tried it out on my last cardio day and it was easy. I just broke my fast an hour later and ended my feeding an hour earlier. 6 hour window was cake and I will probably do it more often
    I shorten mine all the time. Some days, there's just no other option because I'm too busy or on rare occasions, I'll hit my calorie goal before my time is up, so I just stop then.

  27. Hmmm interesting

  28. Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    Yeh I have found that shortening my feeding window is not as bad as I thought it would be. I tried it out on my last cardio day and it was easy. I just broke my fast an hour later and ended my feeding an hour earlier. 6 hour window was cake and I will probably do it more often
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnRock View Post
    I shorten mine all the time. Some days, there's just no other option because I'm too busy or on rare occasions, I'll hit my calorie goal before my time is up, so I just stop then.
    Absolutely Gentlemen! I agree completely. I have no need for the full 8 hour window on most of my rest days. I feel after yesterday I hit the money train with the big 1000 + calorie lunch then having a small meal later in the day. I went about 200 cals over my planned 1500 because I made the family some grilled cheese sandwiches and decided one wouldn't hurt me. Guess what it didn't. However that big meal kept me squared away until about 7 then I had a shake and then the sandwich. Today is an eat day and I am gonna cram in some quality foods today. I am getting ready to do some deads in the garage then wake the wife up to go finish legs of at the gym. I will break my fast after the workout and then it is on!
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  29. Just finished my sprints this morning and I'm enjoying a delicious shake of coconut milk, oats, vanilla whey, and banana totaling around 1200 calories.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by JohnRock View Post
    Just finished my sprints this morning and I'm enjoying a delicious shake of coconut milk, oats, vanilla whey, and banana totaling around 1200 calories.
    Nice! That sounds amazing too!
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
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