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    I hate clock watching well other than at work.
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    I'm not even fasting, and I'm dying here in between my every 2ish hours meal!
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    Search on google for grehlin.

    It will take same time for your body adapt for your new eating schedule. Since it is adapted, it is very normal you will only feel hungry near the normal hour you eat.

    Since when you are fasted there is more catecholamines, any type of stim will be a lot more potent.

    Normally i start my day with a big cup of coffee. Then i have 4-5 hours of work without any hungry, but near 12 i became with the feeling i have to so, this is my window starting.

    Make sure to not UNDEReat doing intermittent fasting lyfestyle. I easily come to undereating and then the results sucks! So keep an eye on your calories/macros.

    cheers
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    Yeah, when I attempted paleo I underate the first few days and ended up where I started eating close to half a jar of peanut or almond butter a day just to make calories
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    There are very good choices for fasting! Even if you can start with higher calories, dependent by person.

    A big lunch that is full of veggies and a lot of fat and protein.

    the thing becomes someone who have to eat a 2k dinner:

    - 400g ~1lb of lean meat/fish (around 100g protein ~400kcal)
    - 250g of brown rice (around 200g of carbs ~800kcal)

    And after looking this huge dish and we think? "it is still missing more then 500kcal to fill the budget lol"

    So it is easy to undereat, even on feeding window!!
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    I have no problem meeting (and exceeding) my caloric requirements. Power Butter at 4-6 TBSP on top of 8-12oz meat, plus a slice of layne norton cheesecake. 2K calories, easy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnRock View Post
    Bulk is the way to go. I get my BCAA and creatine in bulk form that way I can get exactly the amount I want. I mix a scoop of BCAA into my pre-workout drink, and a scoop of each in some 0 calorie sports drink for during my workouts.
    Bulk is definitely the way to go on aminos!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    I have no problem meeting (and exceeding) my caloric requirements. Power Butter at 4-6 TBSP on top of 8-12oz meat, plus a slice of layne norton cheesecake. 2K calories, easy.
    Wow Power Butter on meats. Huh, HMMM would be good for Mole' anyway.
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    Not together, separately! I eat a spoonful with every bite of apple, tastes soooo good to me!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Not together, separately! I eat a spoonful with every bite of apple, tastes soooo good to me!
    LMAO! I had a feeling but I bet some power butter mole' would be good. A little chocolate some power butter some spicy seasoning and WHALLAH healthy Mole'
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    LMAO! I had a feeling but I bet some power butter mole' would be good. A little chocolate some power butter some spicy seasoning and WHALLAH healthy Mole'
    That does sound good! I already tear through Power Butter, I already ate 16oz from Monday to Thursday! I can't imagine if I ate more!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    That does sound good! I already tear through Power Butter, I already ate 16oz from Monday to Thursday! I can't imagine if I ate more!!!
    Yeah it doesn't take long and with the better protein bars it makes the ratios so much better. Love me some power butter. Oufinny found some place that sells the big jars of it too, like the big quart size or something.
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    I just buy naturally more pb at Walmart. Made by the same company, almost identical but only 2.75 for a 1 lb jar
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    4600 calories today with another 21 minutes left in my feed. I keep going higher and higher and nothing so far has caused me to keep any weight that I don't lose just as fast on my rest days with lower calories. It sure would be nice to put on a few pounds...
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnRock View Post
    4600 calories today with another 21 minutes left in my feed. I keep going higher and higher and nothing so far has caused me to keep any weight that I don't lose just as fast on my rest days with lower calories. It sure would be nice to put on a few pounds...
    When trying to build you should definitely eat more on your rest days. The 50% on non training days is to burn fat while possibly still building muscle. If already lean then you need to increase your rest day calories a little. I think that will make more of a difference than adding a few hundred cals to the feeding window on training days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    When trying to build you should definitely eat more on your rest days. The 50% on non training days is to burn fat while possibly still building muscle. If already lean then you need to increase your rest day calories a little. I think that will make more of a difference than adding a few hundred cals to the feeding window on training days.
    That's kind of what I've been thinking as well. The annoying thing is that my "rest" days have me so busy and away from the house that to get in more calories, I have to forget about the quality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    When trying to build you should definitely eat more on your rest days. The 50% on non training days is to burn fat while possibly still building muscle. If already lean then you need to increase your rest day calories a little. I think that will make more of a difference than adding a few hundred cals to the feeding window on training days.

    That makes a lot of sense. Whenever I get to the point where I am happy with how lean I am, I will switch gears and add calories to both lifting days and rest days.
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    In!!!!!!!!!111

    I've been IFing since the first of the year. I love it

    This is a great thread you guys have going here
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    Are you guys getting creative and using protein pudding and fluffs to hit your daily macros? It's tough for me to eat 300+ grams of protein daily from whole foods alone. I take in ~100g of protein a day from protein pudding, fluffs, and protein ice cream. It's an easy and delicious way to keep the pro high when I don't want to consume a ton of meat.

    Btw,,, If you're a fan of ice cream you should go to target and pick up an ice cream maker for $40. best investment ever lol

    2 scoops of protein, ~10oz of unsweetened almond milk, and 2tbsp of sugar free chocolate or caramel syrup makes an amazing guilt free high protein desert.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnRock View Post
    That's kind of what I've been thinking as well. The annoying thing is that my "rest" days have me so busy and away from the house that to get in more calories, I have to forget about the quality.
    Well not necessarily. You can add in high quality fats from almonds, plenty of fiber, a little extra protein and they don't need anything but a ziploc bag to keep em fresh for a few days if your running about that is an easy way to increase cals. Also Better protein bars made with power butter are a great nutrient dense food if not low carb dieter. They have honey in them as natural sweetener so obviously decent carbs but a good source nonetheless.
    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    That makes a lot of sense. Whenever I get to the point where I am happy with how lean I am, I will switch gears and add calories to both lifting days and rest days.
    Yeah, that is probably a god idea or add to only the rest days at first then when the gap closes a bit more start adding to both. I really haven't read too much into using it for weight gain just yet. I know he has some outlandish practices he employs though. Cheesecake mastery, steak/meat mastery all times when you just gorge yourself on these foods at one long sitting. Martin has eaten a 5 lb cheesecake before I think. That and some ridiculous amount of beef, not at the same sitting but still.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernLord View Post
    Are you guys getting creative and using protein pudding and fluffs to hit your daily macros? It's tough for me to eat 300+ grams of protein daily from whole foods alone. I take in ~100g of protein a day from protein pudding, fluffs, and protein ice cream. It's an easy and delicious way to keep the pro high when I don't want to consume a ton of meat.

    Btw,,, If you're a fan of ice cream you should go to target and pick up an ice cream maker for $40. best investment ever lol

    2 scoops of protein, ~10oz of unsweetened almond milk, and 2tbsp of sugar free chocolate or caramel syrup makes an amazing guilt free high protein desert.
    I haven't made the fluff yet and that ice cream type desert sounds great! I do have some protein shakes though. Especially when I have a bad meal and need to bring protein up and other cals down. All a part of adjusting but yeah I have mine. Speaking of I need to go ahead and eat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    That makes a lot of sense. Whenever I get to the point where I am happy with how lean I am, I will switch gears and add calories to both lifting days and rest days.
    I'm in the same boat as you man.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernLord View Post
    Are you guys getting creative and using protein pudding and fluffs to hit your daily macros? It's tough for me to eat 300+ grams of protein daily from whole foods alone. I take in ~100g of protein a day from protein pudding, fluffs, and protein ice cream. It's an easy and delicious way to keep the pro high when I don't want to consume a ton of meat.

    Btw,,, If you're a fan of ice cream you should go to target and pick up an ice cream maker for $40. best investment ever lol
    I'm all over that fluff -- I probably get 60g roughly out of it each day! It's so good, takes forever to eat, and way more satiating than you would initially think.

    An ice cream maker sounds awesome for $40 -- the closest I've ever come is mixing in light vanilla ice cream with fluff and then letting it freeze. Maybe I'll pick one up for my birthday later this month!
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    I am going to keep on cutting for a while then start trying to add more LBM slowly.
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    I've gained some weight and i'm looking to cut down and get lean again, last year I was sub 8%, this year over 20%. I was reading through his articles here and when I got to the part about skipping breakfast it all snapped for me. Last year was no breakfast. Since then, I've been eating 4-6 meals a day. I'm going to get down on IF for sure. Tired of the lower belly fat I have right now. For someone 180 what should my calories be? I'm eating right now about 2k and I haven't lost or gained a pound but losing fat, so probably should stay right there I suppose and drop it down some on rest days, yes?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernLord View Post
    Are you guys getting creative and using protein pudding and fluffs to hit your daily macros? It's tough for me to eat 300+ grams of protein daily from whole foods alone. I take in ~100g of protein a day from protein pudding, fluffs, and protein ice cream. It's an easy and delicious way to keep the pro high when I don't want to consume a ton of meat.

    Btw,,, If you're a fan of ice cream you should go to target and pick up an ice cream maker for $40. best investment ever lol

    2 scoops of protein, ~10oz of unsweetened almond milk, and 2tbsp of sugar free chocolate or caramel syrup makes an amazing guilt free high protein desert.
    I havent tried that yet but I plan to. I do take in a couple shakes per day to get my total protein usually. And every now and then I make some protein pancakes (usually weekends). I will have to give the fluff and protein ice cream a go sometime and try it out though.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    I am going to keep on cutting for a while then start trying to add more LBM slowly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xigotmailx View Post
    I've gained some weight and i'm looking to cut down and get lean again, last year I was sub 8%, this year over 20%. I was reading through his articles here and when I got to the part about skipping breakfast it all snapped for me. Last year was no breakfast. Since then, I've been eating 4-6 meals a day. I'm going to get down on IF for sure. Tired of the lower belly fat I have right now. For someone 180 what should my calories be? I'm eating right now about 2k and I haven't lost or gained a pound but losing fat, so probably should stay right there I suppose and drop it down some on rest days, yes?
    That's quite a swing from <8% (which is really lean) to over 20% (quite fat). What happened?

    First of all it seems like you don't track your caloric intake/output. I would start logging everything you eat on something like fitday.com. That will give you a baseline number of calories for your output, and also track what you're putting in.

    Once you have an ACCURATE baseline, then you can adjust accurately to find a good level for fat burning. I would recommend a daily deficit of 500 calories, half from calories, half from extra cardio.

    The basics of weight loss won't change, you gotta know what you put in and what goes out if you want to control it (otherwise you're just guessing).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    That's quite a swing from <8% (which is really lean) to over 20% (quite fat). What happened?

    First of all it seems like you don't track your caloric intake/output. I would start logging everything you eat on something like fitday.com. That will give you a baseline number of calories for your output, and also track what you're putting in.

    Once you have an ACCURATE baseline, then you can adjust accurately to find a good level for fat burning. I would recommend a daily deficit of 500 calories, half from calories, half from extra cardio.

    The basics of weight loss won't change, you gotta know what you put in and what goes out if you want to control it (otherwise you're just guessing).
    I'll explain this for you. I figured for some dumb reason since I was having trouble gaining weight that I was just going to stop working out and eat my ass off. It worked. And now i'm a chubster. Complete idiotic move, but i'm down to 18% within 2 months and a lot of it was also due to GOMAD during the first month. So I'd probably say that 5% loss was this month solely. I take in 2k a day or less, weights 4 times a week, 2 days cardio, but I do some cardio during lifting days too sometimes.

    Lesson learned and moral of story, woman make you fat unless your chasing them, which is aerobic, therefore makes you look better
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    Do you track your calories to know you're at 2K, or do you guesstimate? If you track, what did you eat today?
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    Subbed.
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    lol in highschool i ran the original halodrol 50 for 8 weeks with clenbuterol and vodka as pct
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    That's quite a swing from <8% (which is really lean) to over 20% (quite fat). What happened?

    First of all it seems like you don't track your caloric intake/output. I would start logging everything you eat on something like fitday.com. That will give you a baseline number of calories for your output, and also track what you're putting in.

    Once you have an ACCURATE baseline, then you can adjust accurately to find a good level for fat burning. I would recommend a daily deficit of 500 calories, half from calories, half from extra cardio.

    The basics of weight loss won't change, you gotta know what you put in and what goes out if you want to control it (otherwise you're just guessing).

    Milas, he can easily lose weight by guestimating IF HE HAS SOME IDEA ALREADY OFWHAT HE TAKES IN A DAY. Not yelling at you there, more stressing to others reading this that is the only way estimation works successfully. I can estimate my calories with pretty good success by keeping a basic tally in my head of grams of protein and what not. However I have been doing it long enough to know what a serving of this, or a serving of that contains and looks like. I can go over or under but the overall trend works just fine for leaning up without any obsession over accurate intakes. It is definitely what is required for continual success once in the lower levels of body fat and when trying to gain LBM without adding fat once already lean. However in the general weight loss / recomp situation for most people the estimations if based off of true familiarity with the nutrients in the food eaten is going to yeild great results.

    Xigot, If you are taking in 2000 a day as a starting point I would try 1250 and 2500 for a starting point give it 2 weeks and see what adjustments you think you need.
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    So i've got an IF question that I need a non-judgemental answer on I moderately often (2-3 times a week) have a couple of glasses of wine or a few beers in the evening. They come after the end of my normal feeding window of 12-8 though. So the question is should I start my feed later the following day to make for a 16 hour fast? or should I start eating later on the day I expect to have a few drinks so that its still an 8 hour window? or any other suggestions
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Milas, he can easily lose weight by guestimating IF HE HAS SOME IDEA ALREADY OFWHAT HE TAKES IN A DAY. Not yelling at you there, more stressing to others reading this that is the only way estimation works successfully. I can estimate my calories with pretty good success by keeping a basic tally in my head of grams of protein and what not. However I have been doing it long enough to know what a serving of this, or a serving of that contains and looks like. I can go over or under but the overall trend works just fine for leaning up without any obsession over accurate intakes. It is definitely what is required for continual success once in the lower levels of body fat and when trying to gain LBM without adding fat once already lean. However in the general weight loss / recomp situation for most people the estimations if based off of true familiarity with the nutrients in the food eaten is going to yeild great results.

    Xigot, If you are taking in 2000 a day as a starting point I would try 1250 and 2500 for a starting point give it 2 weeks and see what adjustments you think you need.
    Right, not everyone is going to track calories or food daily, but if you're just starting out and guess a double quarter pounder is 200-300 calories, you're going to be way off!

    I think a lot of folks would be surprised by the caloric content of normal food. When I spout off to "normal" people, they're amazed at how much they actually eat. Those who actually MAKE changes write down what they eat for a few days to see where they are "normally." From there you adjust. If you're working from a moving baseline, what adjustments do you make? Eat less, move more?

    I agree though, once you're comfortable and making progress guesstimating is the likely approach people will take. Even vets can get surprised at times though when they slack off a bit...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Right, not everyone is going to track calories or food daily, but if you're just starting out and guess a double quarter pounder is 200-300 calories, you're going to be way off!

    I think a lot of folks would be surprised by the caloric content of normal food. When I spout off to "normal" people, they're amazed at how much they actually eat. Those who actually MAKE changes write down what they eat for a few days to see where they are "normally." From there you adjust. If you're working from a moving baseline, what adjustments do you make? Eat less, move more?

    I agree though, once you're comfortable and making progress guesstimating is the likely approach people will take. Even vets can get surprised at times though when they slack off a bit...
    I am counting cuz it's easy enough with fitday... I like to plan and see how much I can squeeze in. I know how to guestimate too but I can get a lot out of manipulating my diet to get some extra goodies in here and there...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    I am counting cuz it's easy enough with fitday... I like to plan and see how much I can squeeze in. I know how to guestimate too but I can get a lot out of manipulating my diet to get some extra goodies in here and there...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Right, not everyone is going to track calories or food daily, but if you're just starting out and guess a double quarter pounder is 200-300 calories, you're going to be way off!

    I think a lot of folks would be surprised by the caloric content of normal food. When I spout off to "normal" people, they're amazed at how much they actually eat. Those who actually MAKE changes write down what they eat for a few days to see where they are "normally." From there you adjust. If you're working from a moving baseline, what adjustments do you make? Eat less, move more?

    I agree though, once you're comfortable and making progress guesstimating is the likely approach people will take. Even vets can get surprised at times though when they slack off a bit...
    Amen! I have done that before. Normally though I know I am slacking on my food choices then things pile up and I am getting soft before i know it and have to curb the food choices. However like we both agree on a person must KNOW the food before estimation can be done. Now I do think the person counting at all times will be able to acheive their goals more quickly. However I truly enjoy having the freedom of knowing that estimating works better with the IF approach of eating for me than a typical diet.

    Oh and yeah you aint kidding thinking a burger has 300 cals is way off. I think a whopper is listed as having 30 grams of fat alone that is 270 cals not including protein or carbs.
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    You know I say i don't track but you can ask me on most days what I have had to eat and even though I haven't weighed everything out I know what I have eaten. I also know a very good estimate, within an ounce above or below on the meats. Part of that is due to convenient eating the other is due to me eating many of the same foods over and over. I like to get a lot of my protein from chicken breast, 7p, 1.5 f per Oz, Salmon 7p and 3-5g fat per oz, Lean Beef Bottom ROund fat trimmed, 7p 1.5-2 f, protein powder 1 scoop 23p, 2.5f, 3c. Tuna, 26p 1.5 f per can.

    I guess I shouldn't give the impression that my estimating is not done off of specifics as it is. I am only estimating the exact weight of the foods. That and when i have mixed foods that others prepare I can only estimate at that point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    You know I say i don't track but you can ask me on most days what I have had to eat and even though I haven't weighed everything out I know what I have eaten. I also know a very good estimate, within an ounce above or below on the meats. Part of that is due to convenient eating the other is due to me eating many of the same foods over and over. I like to get a lot of my protein from chicken breast, 7p, 1.5 f per Oz, Salmon 7p and 3-5g fat per oz, Lean Beef Bottom ROund fat trimmed, 7p 1.5-2 f, protein powder 1 scoop 23p, 2.5f, 3c. Tuna, 26p 1.5 f per can.

    I guess I shouldn't give the impression that my estimating is not done off of specifics as it is. I am only estimating the exact weight of the foods. That and when i have mixed foods that others prepare I can only estimate at that point.
    Yah I knew that, and my situation is very different, plus I am having fun with it... I know my estimation can be out by 100 cals or so and that is 1/2 cup of frozen yogurt...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    You know I say i don't track but you can ask me on most days what I have had to eat and even though I haven't weighed everything out I know what I have eaten. I also know a very good estimate, within an ounce above or below on the meats. Part of that is due to convenient eating the other is due to me eating many of the same foods over and over. I like to get a lot of my protein from chicken breast, 7p, 1.5 f per Oz, Salmon 7p and 3-5g fat per oz, Lean Beef Bottom ROund fat trimmed, 7p 1.5-2 f, protein powder 1 scoop 23p, 2.5f, 3c. Tuna, 26p 1.5 f per can.

    I guess I shouldn't give the impression that my estimating is not done off of specifics as it is. I am only estimating the exact weight of the foods. That and when i have mixed foods that others prepare I can only estimate at that point.
    Yep, I'm with you on that! Same here, though I do love to weigh stuff on my nutrition scales from time to time!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Yep, I'm with you on that! Same here, though I do love to weigh stuff on my nutrition scales from time to time!
    For sure. You have to recalibrate so to speak. Even a doctors triple beam scale needs to be recalibrated every once in a while so do our "eyeballing" scales. That and when i get a cut of meat I am not familiar with I will drop the cut of meat on the scale before cooking it. Then I cut it accordingly when cooked. However the meats I get from Sam's are all cut pretty uniformly. In general the round bottom steaks are 8-9 oz without fail. After 10 or so trays of them you just get to know it and the ones that don't fit into that range are visually obvious and get weighed. I love to hit up a lb of round steak for a fast breaking meal too!!!! Yeah I know it is tough meat but I season it and put tenderizer and marinade on it then I beat the hell out of it before I put it in the freezer. Then pull it out let thow slowly and toss it on the foreman grill.
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    i dont know if ive ever been so excited about a way of eating as this in my life. I actually understand what people are talking about here. I also think this is something I can actually handle and it fits my schedule! Man Im pumped
  

  
 

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