The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

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    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    I may be wrong, but I always thought taking in BCAAs was only critical if you were forced to lift and then couldn't take in your PostWO meal right away. Like if you lift around 12PM and have to work or have no time at all to eat a big meal until 5PM, you could take BCAAs every couple hours to promote protein synthesis. Kind of like HoustonTexas outlined on the next page actually.

    The only time I use BCAAs during the fasted portion is right before low-intensity cardio (e.g. brisk walking) and before and during weight training.
    Thanks for your input.

    That's what I was trying to figure out (I know people have different thoughts on this). I do my training around my meals and I utilize BCAAs intra-workout, too.

    However, back in the days of eating ever 2.5-3 hours for fear that metabolism would drop, I'd lose muscle, etc., I would toss BCAAs in for replacement when I couldn't eat and upon rising if not eating immediately and right before bed. I just didn't know how important these were in a fasted state if not around workout times; just in general.


  2. I think the role of BCAA is being oversimplified for anti-catabolic purposes. It does a lot more for protein synthesis (keep you building muscle, not just avoid catabolism), as well as other protein expression. Martin mentions:

    "For fasted sessions, ingest 10 g branched chain amino acids (BCAA) shortly prior (5-15 mins) to your training session. This does not count towards the 8-hour feeding window that I advocate post-workout; that starts with your post-workout meal. By ingesting BCAA pre-workout, we can sidestep the increased protein breakdown of fasted training while still reaping the benefits of the increased anabolic response as seen in this study. Not only that, BCAAs actually increase phosphorylation of p70s6k when ingested in the fasted state prior to training. So by training fasted, with BCAA intake prior to sessions, we get a double whammy of increased p70s6k phosphorylation that should create a very favorable environment for muscle growth in the post-workout period. "

    I'd just keep using the BCAA every 2 hours as recommended to keep protein synthesis going.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    I'd just keep using the BCAA every 2 hours as recommended to keep protein synthesis going.
    Not a bad idea at all, but it would hit you in the wallet pretty hard.

    Assuming 8 awake hours of fasting and 10g BCAA per serving, that's at least 50g each day (10g at 0:2:4:6:8 hour mark after waking) without adding any extra surrounding cardio or intraWO.

    1000g BCAA = MIN $40 (Bulk NP) = 20 days MAX (@50g per day)

    So at that rate, 1 month = ~$60 spent on BCAA. It would be sweet, but pretty expensive.

  4. Does anybody have any updates regarding MB's book? I really don't know anyone who does consultations with him or I would just ask them to mention it to him sometime.

    He's been talking about it for years now!

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    Not a bad idea at all, but it would hit you in the wallet pretty hard.

    Assuming 8 awake hours of fasting and 10g BCAA per serving, that's at least 50g each day (10g at 0:2:4:6:8 hour mark after waking) without adding any extra surrounding cardio or intraWO.

    1000g BCAA = MIN $40 (Bulk NP) = 20 days MAX (@50g per day)

    So at that rate, 1 month = ~$60 spent on BCAA. It would be sweet, but pretty expensive.
    I believe Layne Norton recommends 5g of leucine once an hour taken all at once for anabolism. Would be a good bit cheaper.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    Not a bad idea at all, but it would hit you in the wallet pretty hard.

    Assuming 8 awake hours of fasting and 10g BCAA per serving, that's at least 50g each day (10g at 0:2:4:6:8 hour mark after waking) without adding any extra surrounding cardio or intraWO.

    1000g BCAA = MIN $40 (Bulk NP) = 20 days MAX (@50g per day)

    So at that rate, 1 month = ~$60 spent on BCAA. It would be sweet, but pretty expensive.
    MF has 4:1:1 bulk BCAA for $55 for 5lbs.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by houstontexas View Post
    I lift from about 4:30-5:30am 3 days a week now (GVT). This means I should do the following routine on lifting days correct:

    4:20am BCAA
    5:40am BCAA
    8:00am BCAA
    10:00am BCAA
    12pm-8pm eating window
    *wash, rinse, repeat

    Would I be good with BCAA's at 9am instead of both 8am and 10am?

    What about non lifting days? Should I still supplement BCAA's in the morning or just run them with nothing until I reach my eating window?


    Nice. AFter reading Kleens comment. This is pretty much my exact lifestyle

    RECOVERBRO



  8. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I believe Layne Norton recommends 5g of leucine once an hour taken all at once for anabolism. Would be a good bit cheaper.
    Got ya; definitely cheaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    MF has 4:1:1 bulk BCAA for $55 for 5lbs.
    Oh very nice; the 4:1:1 ratio probably drops it down a bit (I think a lot of them are 2:1:1 right?) but that's a lot more manageable on a budget -- thanks!

  9. Kleen I know you already laid it out somewhat in terms of what a sample day of food - specific items looks like - but can some other people give some sample meals and lists of food .. i have been reading and reading and thinking about taking on this approach. I would probably be leaning towards the one PreWO meal protocol. Just looking for a pseudo-stencil on how to shape my diet in terms of Macros for each meal. Are there specific foods one must stay away from? I rarely cheat and everything is usually of one ingredient (besides my Whey). Any .02 is greatly appreciated!!

    Currently I use a Paleo for Athletes type diet with oats/grains only at breakfast and PreWO ( if legs or otherwise extra taxing workout I use grains for Post WO as well). I am currently sitting at 7% BF based on the six point caliper test, but would like to see where this Lean Gains/IF approach can take me .. especially where it can keep me...

  10. On the lean gains site he has some dishes and recipes. basically that first meal maybe 40-50 grams protein, 35-40 grams carbs, lower fat keep it light and easy to digest is my recommendation. Then the meal after your workout you would want to consume probably 50-60% of your calories in that meal then the rest on your final meal.

    My dinner tonight consisted of about 12 oz worth of lean ground turkey breast in spaghetti sauce no noodles and about 20 green grapes. Happy camper, and tomorrow I get to eat big.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  11. Lunch (fast break at 12PM)

    10-12 oz grilled chicken breast
    3 cups lettuce/spinach mix (salad)
    1/2 cup soy nuts (salad)
    1 cup brocolli (salad)
    1/2 cup carrots (salad)
    2 tbsp Newmans Fat Free Low Cal Dressing
    2 tbsp bacon bits (salad)
    1 medium apple
    4 tbsp Naturally More Peanut Butter
    1 slice Layne Norton Cheesecake
    1 scoop Macro Greens
    1L water


    Snack (4PM)
    3 hard boiled eggs, whole
    3 egg whites
    Cholula hot sauce
    1L water

    Dinner (6PM)
    6-10 oz chicken/fish/beef
    1 cup green beans (or other veggie)
    1 slice Layne Norton Cheesecake
    1L water

    Dessert (tastes like a Shamrock Shake!) (just before 8PM)
    1 scoop myofusion
    1 scoop oximega greens
    1L water
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  12. thanks Milas!.. and when do you train .. early AM im guessing?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    Not a bad idea at all, but it would hit you in the wallet pretty hard.

    Assuming 8 awake hours of fasting and 10g BCAA per serving, that's at least 50g each day (10g at 0:2:4:6:8 hour mark after waking) without adding any extra surrounding cardio or intraWO.

    1000g BCAA = MIN $40 (Bulk NP) = 20 days MAX (@50g per day)

    So at that rate, 1 month = ~$60 spent on BCAA. It would be sweet, but pretty expensive.

    BCAAs can get expensive depending on how much you are taking in. I take in usually 30g a day. 10g pre workout, 10g post and 10g 2 hours later which is 2 hours before breaking the fast.
    Recoverbro Elite
    "This is what we've been working on"

  14. Quote Originally Posted by acwingfoot View Post
    thanks Milas!.. and when do you train .. early AM im guessing?
    Yep, in the gym by 6AM. 1-1.5 hrs weights, 10-30 minutes cardio, BCAA intra. Head to the office, and get a liter of water with more BCAA.
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    BCAAs can get expensive depending on how much you are taking in. I take in usually 30g a day. 10g pre workout, 10g post and 10g 2 hours later which is 2 hours before breaking the fast.
    Or you could buy bulk BCAA for $20 a kilo, but you'd have to be smart about your powders. That or give your muscles a feast.

    Personally though, I like Xtend, BC+EAA and Purple Wraath. At some point maybe I'll do bulk and crystal light, but I've got a stash to burn through first.
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Or you could buy bulk BCAA for $20 a kilo, but you'd have to be smart about your powders. That or give your muscles a feast.

    Personally though, I like Xtend, BC+EAA and Purple Wraath. At some point maybe I'll do bulk and crystal light, but I've got a stash to burn through first.
    Ive been using modern bcaa, or other bcaa product around workouts(with additional bulk), and bulk/crystal light the rest of the day.

  17. great thread idea here

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Or you could buy bulk BCAA for $20 a kilo, but you'd have to be smart about your powders. That or give your muscles a feast.

    Personally though, I like Xtend, BC+EAA and Purple Wraath. At some point maybe I'll do bulk and crystal light, but I've got a stash to burn through first.
    I have thought about going the bulk and crystal light route, as its definitely cheaper. But I love the taste and convenience of xtend so that's what I am using at least for now. Purple wraath is something I want to try too, but is more expensive than xtend
    Recoverbro Elite
    "This is what we've been working on"

  19. Bulk is the way to go. I get my BCAA and creatine in bulk form that way I can get exactly the amount I want. I mix a scoop of BCAA into my pre-workout drink, and a scoop of each in some 0 calorie sports drink for during my workouts.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    That's totally fine and they are damn expensive, although I feel like there have been studies that indicate amino acids prior to weight training is superior in promoting protein synthesis and glycogen uptake in muscle cells post-workout.
    Leucine is not so expensive... As already referred here about Datbtrue, please check there some studies!

    Why don't take only leucine intraworkout? You still can take advantages of that increase in glycogen uptake and protein synthesis with only leucine intra WO.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Leucine is not so expensive... As already referred here about Datbtrue, please check there some studies!

    Why don't take only leucine intraworkout? You still can take advantages of that increase in glycogen uptake and protein synthesis with only leucine intra WO.
    Oh I understand the usefulness of leucine; I have quite a bit of bulk leucine to use actually!

    In my post I was just responding to your comment about BCAA being a "waste of money" by showing that there are documented benefits of consuming amino acids before a workout -- that's all.

    But yes, I hear that leucine also works well by itself and is considerably cheaper.

  22. The question is that IMO, not works well itself, WORKS Better!!

    Just my opinion, maybe some don't agree. Nevertheless, there are a lot of different options nowadays! Bulk rules

  23. Wow this thread has really exploded since I subbed! Great to see so much interest and open-mindedness with this diet.

    I have to go back and read to catch up but looks like a great discussion going on here about amino consumption

    This is my fasting mix and I usually have 3 of them before breaking my fast
    7g EAA
    7g BCAA
    6g Glutamine
    2g Taurine
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  24. Today is the my first day on IF. I actually got more sleep than I normally do last night, but I still feel very out of it in this fasted state. I feel like I am not thinking as clearly or as quickly as I usually am plus I just have that overwhelmingly tired feeling. I know I read somewhere that you may experience more energy etc in the fasted state so I am curious as to why I feel so tired. Does my body just have to adjust first since it is used to having food by now? Something like switching to a CKD diet or something. Initial lethargy followed by my body adapting to its new routine. Thanks.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Wow this thread has really exploded since I subbed! Great to see so much interest and open-mindedness with this diet.

    I have to go back and read to catch up but looks like a great discussion going on here about amino consumption

    This is my fasting mix and I usually have 3 of them before breaking my fast
    7g EAA
    7g BCAA
    6g Glutamine
    2g Taurine
    Mine is the same ingredients but 50% BCAA 25% EAA's, 15 Gluatamine and 10 Taurine... I got this off of Kabuki when he was doing his modified warrior diet... Chris has an intereting sounding mixture, can't remember what it is...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  26. Quote Originally Posted by houstontexas View Post
    Today is the my first day on IF. I actually got more sleep than I normally do last night, but I still feel very out of it in this fasted state. I feel like I am not thinking as clearly or as quickly as I usually am plus I just have that overwhelmingly tired feeling. I know I read somewhere that you may experience more energy etc in the fasted state so I am curious as to why I feel so tired. Does my body just have to adjust first since it is used to having food by now? Something like switching to a CKD diet or something. Initial lethargy followed by my body adapting to its new routine. Thanks.
    There is an adjustment period just stick with it...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  27. Quote Originally Posted by houstontexas View Post
    Today is the my first day on IF. I actually got more sleep than I normally do last night, but I still feel very out of it in this fasted state. I feel like I am not thinking as clearly or as quickly as I usually am plus I just have that overwhelmingly tired feeling. I know I read somewhere that you may experience more energy etc in the fasted state so I am curious as to why I feel so tired. Does my body just have to adjust first since it is used to having food by now? Something like switching to a CKD diet or something. Initial lethargy followed by my body adapting to its new routine. Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    There is an adjustment period just stick with it...
    Yeah, I agree that it takes some bodies a bit to switch over. The nice side is that if you take stimulants, they're even more effective/potent!
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  28. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Yeah, I agree that it takes some bodies a bit to switch over. The nice side is that if you take stimulants, they're even more effective/potent!
    I'm pretty energiized on this regime.. It's a good opportunity to give my adrenals a rest. Now when i do take stims they will work like they used to.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  29. I'm f@#$@# well dying here watching the clock waiting for noon.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I'm f@#$@# well dying here watching the clock waiting for noon.
    I'm with you! I took a Dexaprine to help curb appetite, and just had to eat a fiber cracker (only 12 calories, 5g fiber). Nearly puked on the first swallow!
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