The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by adnscmplx View Post
    I have one real quick, kinda dumb question.

    Do you guys take fish oil caps during your morning fast (like normal AM/PM vitamins, supps, etc) or do you just double up in the PM? Splitting hairs, I know, but I thought I would ask.
    I take 'em with my high fat meals, which are typically in mid-evening.

    Only supps I take on an empty stomach are stims/pre-workout/minerals/ergogenics
    Bulk Performance Solutions
    --No Proprietary Blends, All Performance--

    ***NOW @ NP***


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Your idea looks like the "warrior diet".

    I knoe a lot of feedback with excellent results! nevertheless i tend to "under"-eat, so this is why i follow normally 16/8.

    I'm glad too, to know that this lifestyle is becaming more popular!
    Yeah, I read that there too well a magazine covering it. I think they said to have a small meal after the workout though. I would probably opt for a smaller dinner and a bigger meal post workout. I train in the AM Fasted well BCAAs
    Quote Originally Posted by adnscmplx View Post
    I have one real quick, kinda dumb question.

    Do you guys take fish oil caps during your morning fast (like normal AM/PM vitamins, supps, etc) or do you just double up in the PM? Splitting hairs, I know, but I thought I would ask.
    I wouldn't sweat the fish oil, I eat 2-4 almonds with my test boosting supps that say take with food. The rule of thumb for Lean Gains is 50 calories does not break the fast.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by adnscmplx View Post
    I have one real quick, kinda dumb question.

    Do you guys take fish oil caps during your morning fast (like normal AM/PM vitamins, supps, etc) or do you just double up in the PM? Splitting hairs, I know, but I thought I would ask.
    You could do either one with no ill-effect -- personally, I usually end up taking 2-3 during the fasted period.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Yeah, I read that there too well a magazine covering it. I think they said to have a small meal after the workout though. I would probably opt for a smaller dinner and a bigger meal post workout. I train in the AM Fasted well BCAAs
    Yes normally they will eat some hand of nuts, or similar "snacks" as low caloric as possible with a mega meal at the end of the day.

    The difference is:

    Lean gains mega meal - Prot HIGH + Carb HIGH
    Warrior - Prot + Carbs + Fat

    The slin spike will be different, but i never tried it.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Yes normally they will eat some hand of nuts, or similar "snacks" as low caloric as possible with a mega meal at the end of the day.

    The difference is:

    Lean gains mega meal - Prot HIGH + Carb HIGH
    Warrior - Prot + Carbs + Fat

    The slin spike will be different, but i never tried it.
    I think all of my meals are relatively mixed. Other than the sheer size of a meal narrowing the entry to the bolus into the intestines a mixed meal (fat and carbs) does not really alter the amount of insulin that is released. There are a few studies floating around that show this to be true. Fat does not blunt insulin release.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    I think all of my meals are relatively mixed. Other than the sheer size of a meal narrowing the entry to the bolus into the intestines a mixed meal (fat and carbs) does not really alter the amount of insulin that is released. There are a few studies floating around that show this to be true. Fat does not blunt insulin release.
    My macros are set to around 50 25 25, a little more fat on off days and more carbs on wd's... The fist meal is high protein lower carbs... just the way I prefer it and well the results have been phenomenal..
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  7. Today is date day with the wife so we go for lunch. I am not sure where we are going but I have my Titan Protein bar here to kick of the meal and add 26 grams of protein to whatever we eat. Kind of hoping we can go to chipotle and I can get a triple meat burrito bowl. MMMMMMM would get me about 12 oz of chicken and some rice that way. YEP YEP!!!!
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  8. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Today is date day with the wife so we go for lunch. I am not sure where we are going but I have my Titan Protein bar here to kick of the meal and add 26 grams of protein to whatever we eat. Kind of hoping we can go to chipotle and I can get a triple meat burrito bowl. MMMMMMM would get me about 12 oz of chicken and some rice that way. YEP YEP!!!!
    Triple meat sounds good...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  9. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    I think all of my meals are relatively mixed. Other than the sheer size of a meal narrowing the entry to the bolus into the intestines a mixed meal (fat and carbs) does not really alter the amount of insulin that is released. There are a few studies floating around that show this to be true. Fat does not blunt insulin release.
    Even that i'm not afraid of eating carbs with Fat sources.

    But remember, for me carb = sweet potatoe, brown rice, yams
    fat = coconut oil, EVOO, some nuts

    So the mix of these i'm not afraid, is diferent of veg transgenic butters with simple sugars, and is still fat + carbs

    I'm a really Pain in the ass!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Even that i'm not afraid of eating carbs with Fat sources.

    But remember, for me carb = sweet potatoe, brown rice, yams
    fat = coconut oil, EVOO, some nuts

    So the mix of these i'm not afraid, is diferent of veg transgenic butters with simple sugars, and is still fat + carbs

    I'm a really Pain in the ass!
    Yah I am pretty much the same but I do add in some calorie dense food for sanity, my choice is frozen yogurt which will have to be cut in latter prep as will all dairy...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  11. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Yah I am pretty much the same but I do add in some calorie dense food for sanity, my choice is frozen yogurt which will have to be cut in latter prep as will all dairy...
    Yougurt, like Greek seems good option! but i don't have it here, at least i don't find it...

    Some dairy food i use sometimes, when i want to bump a little my calories like some cheeses for my gluten-free pizzas

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Yougurt, like Greek seems good option! but i don't have it here, at least i don't find it...

    Some dairy food i use sometimes, when i want to bump a little my calories like some cheeses for my gluten-free pizzas
    Yah ok for off season for me but my skin gets a bit watery with dairy so I will cut it out about 6 weeks before competing...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    You could do either one with no ill-effect -- personally, I usually end up taking 2-3 during the fasted period.
    I do the same thing, throw a few down during the fast sporadically with some Universal Liver Tabs. I don't take more than 2 at once with 2 liver tabs though, same thing Kleen said, keep it under 50 calories. I end up taking 4 with my fast breaking meal and another 3-4 later in the day for 10 total on most days.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).

  14. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Today is date day with the wife so we go for lunch. I am not sure where we are going but I have my Titan Protein bar here to kick of the meal and add 26 grams of protein to whatever we eat. Kind of hoping we can go to chipotle and I can get a triple meat burrito bowl. MMMMMMM would get me about 12 oz of chicken and some rice that way. YEP YEP!!!!
    Triple-MEAT.... Yum...yum...yum!!! Good things come in 3's!!!
    Dr. Albert Scott Representative for FINAFLEX
    www.finaflex.com
    Redefine Yourself..... REDEFINE EVERYTHING!

  15. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Yah ok for off season for me but my skin gets a bit watery with dairy so I will cut it out about 6 weeks before competing...
    I understand, everyone is different and most of them will handle the foods in a different way.

    Even with IF, and with the clean carbs i referred i easily come fat if i "overcome". But i'm loving the ideas shared here! NOT GOOD FOR PEOPLE CUTTING

    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    I do the same thing, throw a few down during the fast sporadically with some Universal Liver Tabs. I don't take more than 2 at once with 2 liver tabs though, same thing Kleen said, keep it under 50 calories. I end up taking 4 with my fast breaking meal and another 3-4 later in the day for 10 total on most days.
    This is why some guy's try some "pulses" of 10g of peptopro or similar amino's <50kcal, through the day.

    Never tried it, but would like to know results!

  16. Very interesting concepts in here. I actually just read through the entire 26 pages...that was painful, but enlightening. So I quoted some posts for clarification.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    The fasting protocals seem to vary regarding when to have amino acids. One thing consistently shown is that it takes a few days for your body to begin the signal to start catabolism. The first few days of a fast are actually spent in an increased metabolic rate not a slower one. That does not happend for a few days after the fast begins. In the beginning of the fast the energy expenditure is naturally leaning towards being active to encourage the foraging and hunting. During this time the body feeds on fat. It naturally knows to increase lypolosis, and increase BMR to keep the body active. It takes some time but as the leptin levels begin to deplete the body begins to change its focus to an energy saving mode. This is when the body starts to preserve fat and goes after the muscle. However there is not logical reason to think that a workout done after an overnight fast would have any catabolic effect at all. None of these approaches get anywhere near the point where catabolism is going to be a factor. However the effort people are making with the aminos, and leucine is to stimulate protein synthesis during the training and to supply some substrate to be used during the time of gross underfeeding.

    In my opinion on and ADF you would not have any reason to take Aminos on your training day seeing as to the fact you will be taking in a ton of protein and there will be no shortage of aminos in the blood stream. However adding them into the fasting period to increase some protein synthesis may be useless it is definitely not hurting anything short of our pockets. I will go amino less at some point to test the theory and if not changes in recovery that will be another supplement I drop off my arsenal. Man this is gonna make me rich soon if I keep finding it makes supplements I was using not needed any longer.
    ...
    According to various research articles, MPS can be boosted every two hours by consuming BCAA's, so I don't know why it wouldn't be considered important, especially in a fasted state.

    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/10/3219S.short

    http://agro-food-industry.teknoscien...ton_AF2_09.PDF

    http://pubget.com/search?q=authors%3...0E%20Norton%22


    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    I think the role of BCAA is being oversimplified for anti-catabolic purposes. It does a lot more for protein synthesis (keep you building muscle, not just avoid catabolism), as well as other protein expression. Martin mentions:

    "For fasted sessions, ingest 10 g branched chain amino acids (BCAA) shortly prior (5-15 mins) to your training session. This does not count towards the 8-hour feeding window that I advocate post-workout; that starts with your post-workout meal. By ingesting BCAA pre-workout, we can sidestep the increased protein breakdown of fasted training while still reaping the benefits of the increased anabolic response as seen in this study. Not only that, BCAAs actually increase phosphorylation of p70s6k when ingested in the fasted state prior to training. So by training fasted, with BCAA intake prior to sessions, we get a double whammy of increased p70s6k phosphorylation that should create a very favorable environment for muscle growth in the post-workout period. "

    I'd just keep using the BCAA every 2 hours as recommended to keep protein synthesis going.
    This

    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    On the lean gains site he has some dishes and recipes. basically that first meal maybe 40-50 grams protein, 35-40 grams carbs, lower fat keep it light and easy to digest is my recommendation. Then the meal after your workout you would want to consume probably 50-60% of your calories in that meal then the rest on your final meal.

    My dinner tonight consisted of about 12 oz worth of lean ground turkey breast in spaghetti sauce no noodles and about 20 green grapes. Happy camper, and tomorrow I get to eat big.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Not going to write up a diet here for you but recommendations. get in 100 grams or more of protein in the meal following your lift. Add another meal. Preferably MORE Post workout, if that means you ad a second post workout meal where you are having the dessert then that is where i would put it.
    ...

    So, I usually workout in the morning at around 9am and get up at about 730ish. I take it that I should have my BCAA's only preworkout. I would need to time my last meal of the previous night to get the IF timing down so that I would then have my first REAL meal immediately post workout say at about 11am. This should consist of mainly easily digestible food sources from mainly protein and carbs. So a protein shake with some PowerCarb would be a good option? (this is for sticking to the diet and for ease of use because I rarely go straight home after my workouts and don't have a microwave at the gym). Then two hours later (if consuming 4 meals in the 8 hour window) or ~three hours later (if consuming 3 meals in the 8 hour window), have my biggest meal of the day consisting of ~50% of my daily caloric intake (in whatever Macro's as long as it fits into my overall daily macro intake goals)? I really want to get this down right because I'm intrigued by it and can only give it a fair shot and be successful with it if I do it correctly. I'm in contest prep now and want to see if this really does work better for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Initial hunger will hit but it only sticks around for maybe 20 minutes max and then goes away for several hours again. If you can just distract yourself during those times it wont be so bad just make yourself think about something other than being hungry and the next thing you know you your aren't hungry any more. I originally thought I would have a lot of trouble waiting until Noon and I workout at 4:30, I just take aminos at 4:15, 6:30, then ever 2.5 or so hours untilI eat at noon or sometimes 1:00 it just depends. It is working well for me. However if it doesn't suit you then a 40-50 grams protein and 50g carbs meal or shake post workout and then begin your feeding window later. May even enable you to start really feeding at 2 or even 4pm.
    That's going to be my biggest challenge. I'm always really really hungry in the morning. Would taking in a pure fiber source, like Metamucil or Myogenix Pro Fiber, with my morning amino shake to curb appetite alter the fasted condition, since these are carbs but aren't quite absorbed the same way? Other appetite suppressants don't do crap for me. I find the best way is to stay busy and keep away from food.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Absolutely Gentlemen! I agree completely. I have no need for the full 8 hour window on most of my rest days. I feel after yesterday I hit the money train with the big 1000 + calorie lunch then having a small meal later in the day. I went about 200 cals over my planned 1500 because I made the family some grilled cheese sandwiches and decided one wouldn't hurt me. Guess what it didn't. However that big meal kept me squared away until about 7 then I had a shake and then the sandwich. Today is an eat day and I am gonna cram in some quality foods today. I am getting ready to do some deads in the garage then wake the wife up to go finish legs of at the gym. I will break my fast after the workout and then it is on!
    So our "rest" days are determined by the days we don't lift or do cardio or either? If so then I only have two rest days a week. Would carb cycling still be effective using this dieting routine and say, make the "rest" days my no carb days?


    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Why not use a combination of fitday and a spreadsheet?
    I use myfitnesspal app for my droid. It's easy to use and effective and allows me to consistently monitor and adjust my macros and caloric intake as the day goes on. I changed the goal setting and adjusted the macros to meet my own specifications.



    My last two questions:
    What about having enough energy to get in a good workout since I do all of my workouts in the morning when I would be at the tailend of my fasted time frame? I already feel weakened in the gym on just "no carb" days. I know some people have said that your body adapts and gets used to it, but I also know that carbs are the body's primary fuel source and I would think that workout quality would suffer because of this.

    Finally, what about GDA's? Would you still use nutrient repartitioner's while on this diet with your carbs?

    Sorry I have so many questions but I really want to get this right. I want to have a really good showing in my next contest and I know diet and conditioning is key so if you could please be detailed and help me understand this I would be greatly appreciative!
    Serious Nutrition Solutions rep

  17. Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf View Post
    According to various research articles, MPS can be boosted every two hours by consuming BCAA's, so I don't know why it wouldn't be considered important, especially in a fasted state.

    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/10/3219S.short

    http://agro-food-industry.teknoscien...ton_AF2_09.PDF

    http://pubget.com/search?q=authors%3...0E%20Norton%22
    Part of the question mark about doing this is whether that is enough in nutrients to take your body out of the fasted state, effectively ruining any growth hormone/insulin sensitivity gains that are a major point of IF.


    Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf View Post
    That's going to be my biggest challenge. I'm always really really hungry in the morning. Would taking in a pure fiber source, like Metamucil or Myogenix Pro Fiber, with my morning amino shake to curb appetite alter the fasted condition, since these are carbs but aren't quite absorbed the same way? Other appetite suppressants don't do crap for me. I find the best way is to stay busy and keep away from food.
    Ever tried caralluma fimbrata based ones? they seem to work well.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf View Post
    My last two questions:
    What about having enough energy to get in a good workout since I do all of my workouts in the morning when I would be at the tailend of my fasted time frame? I already feel weakened in the gym on just "no carb" days. I know some people have said that your body adapts and gets used to it, but I also know that carbs are the body's primary fuel source and I would think that workout quality would suffer because of this.
    stims. You do get used to it though. I've been doing fasted training for a long time now, but often when I travel for work I end up having to do evening non-fasted workouts. Theres a slight strength difference (higher) when I do that, but either way I continue to see progression.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by kingjameskjf View Post
    So our "rest" days are determined by the days we don't lift or do cardio or either? If so then I only have two rest days a week. Would carb cycling still be effective using this dieting routine and say, make the "rest" days my no carb days?


    My last two questions:
    What about having enough energy to get in a good workout since I do all of my workouts in the morning when I would be at the tailend of my fasted time frame? I already feel weakened in the gym on just "no carb" days. I know some people have said that your body adapts and gets used to it, but I also know that carbs are the body's primary fuel source and I would think that workout quality would suffer because of this.

    Finally, what about GDA's? Would you still use nutrient repartitioner's while on this diet with your carbs?
    I believe your understanding of "rest days" is correct -- although you could perform some low-intensity work to potentially accelerate fat loss (if necessary).

    Also, I've never really had success with "no-carb" -- the extremely restrictive nature always leads me (and my fellow fitness-minded friends) to a regressive binge or a constant yearning for carbohydrates that is extremely distracting.

    Instead, I do "low-carb" (~75-100g) on rest and low-intensity days and "higher-carb" (250-300g) on weight training days; protein remains relatively constant throughout.

    But if "no-carb" works for you then DO IT! I just haven't seen much long-term success with extremely strict carbohydrate control AND I have seen multiple cases of effective fat loss with the protocol outlined above.

    As for using a nutrient partitioner, I've always used them before/with meals containing a moderate-to-high amount of carbohydrate and have maintained a successful composition. R-ALA (or NP bulk ALA) and Biotin are my regulars since they are widely available and cheap.

  19. Ok first my aplogies, I haven't read the whole thread (just the first and last page)

    But I think a lot of my questions can be answered VERY SUCCINCTLY:

    Can someone post a sample diet for an AM workout?

    that's all. I lift around 10am usually. So I am thinking this means pre-wo Shake and BCAAs, then 11:30 post-WO HUGE meal, then another meal around 3:00 and the last meal around 7:00.

    Kleen/dreamweaver/anyone doing the diet, can you post what you've been doing? I really want to see how the macros vary between the 3 meals in the feeding period.
    Mostly answered PM's
    Don't post on my profile, I don't read that stuff, PM me instead
    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot

  20. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Part of the question mark about doing this is whether that is enough in nutrients to take your body out of the fasted state, effectively ruining any growth hormone/insulin sensitivity gains that are a major point of IF.



    Ever tried caralluma fimbrata based ones? they seem to work well.



    stims. You do get used to it though. I've been doing fasted training for a long time now, but often when I travel for work I end up having to do evening non-fasted workouts. Theres a slight strength difference (higher) when I do that, but either way I continue to see progression.
    As for the IF factor I can see that being a valid point, but if it's only every 2-3 hours of BCAA supplementation with no other intake, then it should (I presume) fall in the "under 50 cals" cutoff point of eliciting such a response. I'm not sure if this is an accurate interpretation though.

    I haven't had caralluma fimbrata but I will check it out, thanks for the head up on it.

    Now, when I read through the initial doublegains leangains article, he stated he ate two hours before his workout. Do you AM workouters do this or do you just do BCAA's pre and then start you first meal as your "easy to digest" post workout meal? I wonder cause I workout at around 9-10 am typically. I absolutely hate mornings and hate getting up any earlier then I have to. Do you AM'ers eat first thing in the morning say, 7 AM then workout at 9AM then do your big second meal at 11 AM and then wrap up the last meal with his proposed slow digesting protein at 1 PM? This leaves alot of the day left in this fasted state, however, I see one potential advantage is that when you're hungriest, you'll be asleep and know that you will wake up to a nice meal! One potential disadvantage is that the evening is when we're typically most likely to snack and have those cravings. I dunno, what do you guys find works best for you? Anybody tried both ways?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    I believe your understanding of "rest days" is correct -- although you could perform some low-intensity work to potentially accelerate fat loss (if necessary).

    Also, I've never really had success with "no-carb" -- the extremely restrictive nature always leads me (and my fellow fitness-minded friends) to a regressive binge or a constant yearning for carbohydrates that is extremely distracting.

    Instead, I do "low-carb" (~75-100g) on rest and low-intensity days and "higher-carb" (250-300g) on weight training days; protein remains relatively constant throughout.

    But if "no-carb" works for you then DO IT! I just haven't seen much long-term success with extremely strict carbohydrate control AND I have seen multiple cases of effective fat loss with the protocol outlined above.

    As for using a nutrient partitioner, I've always used them before/with meals containing a moderate-to-high amount of carbohydrate and have maintained a successful composition. R-ALA (or NP bulk ALA) and Biotin are my regulars since they are widely available and cheap.
    As for the no carb, I'm meaning only on the no carb days of a typical carb cycle or is that trying to integrate too much into the program? I'm not sure if it would have an added benefit in conjunction with LG/IF diet.

    I do use nutrient repartitioners as well, just wanted to make sure there wasn't some reason not too on this diet! Thanks for taking the time to reply, this diet is SO new to me and I'm already dead set on trying it.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions rep

  21. Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    Ok first my aplogies, I haven't read the whole thread (just the first and last page)

    But I think a lot of my questions can be answered VERY SUCCINCTLY:

    Can someone post a sample diet for an AM workout?

    that's all. I lift around 10am usually. So I am thinking this means pre-wo Shake and BCAAs, then 11:30 post-WO HUGE meal, then another meal around 3:00 and the last meal around 7:00.

    Kleen/dreamweaver/anyone doing the diet, can you post what you've been doing? I really want to see how the macros vary between the 3 meals in the feeding period.
    It depends, but keeping what you purpose it makes a difference if you want to WO fasted, or not.

    So fasted:

    9am cup coffee

    10am train + intraWO aminoAcids

    11.30am 60% of caloric intake of the day most of starchy carbs + lean protein
    (can be oats and whey after + sweet potatoes and chicken as a solid meal)

    3pm 20% of intake, based on some fruits (berries!) + good fats (EVOO, coco oil or nuts) + protein source

    7pm 20% intake, fat protein source as salmon or beef + green veggies unlimited + EVOO

    This is an example.

    If you don't want to workout fasted, as i actually prefer to use some carbs peri-workout, you can use 10% of total daily intake pre-intra and the HUGE meal of 50% of total calories.

    This lifestyle is easily adjustable!
  22. Nevermind on my previous questions!


    Well, I just spent the last four hours (and several more earlier) reading through all of leangains. Funny thing was...I had that site bookmarked already! I had done it for future reading as I found it to be very interesting but never really got into it. I got all my answers pretty much solved by reading just about every article on that site and others.

    As for my AM routine I was asking about...well here it was:

    "Protocol needed: Fasted Training (see the Leangains Guide for details).

    We're going to assume that you're at the gym at 10 AM and break your fast at 12-1 PM.

    10 AM: Training is initiated on an empty stomach and after ingestion of 10 g BCAA or similar amino acid mixture. This "pre-workout" meal is not counted towards the feeding phase.

    *For fasted sessions, ingest 10 g branched chain amino acids (BCAA) shortly prior (5-15 mins) to your training session. This does not count towards the 8-hour feeding window that I advocate post-workout; that starts with your post-workout meal. By ingesting BCAA pre-workout, we can sidestep the increased protein breakdown of fasted training while still reaping the benefits of the increased anabolic response as seen in this study. Not only that, BCAAs actually increase phosphorylation of p70s6k when ingested in the fasted state prior to training. So by training fasted, with BCAA intake prior to sessions, we get a double whammy of increased p70s6k phosphorylation that should create a very favorable environment for muscle growth in the post-workout period.
    “The researchers concluded that "Our results indicate that prior fasting may stimulate the intramyocellular anabolic response to ingestion of a carbohydrate/protein/leucine mixture following a heavy resistance training session. "
    http://www.leangains.com/2009/12/fas...le-growth.html


    10-11 AM: Weight Training: I suggest using a setup similar to reverse pyramid training, which is my favored approach. This is a high intensity, low volume setup. Keeping intensity high is key in order to reap the catecholamine-related benefits. Do 2-3 sets of 4-8 reps for compound movements and 1-2 sets of 8-10 reps for assistance movements (curls, triceps work, etc). Do no more than 5 movements per session.

    11-12 AM: When you're done, which should be in no more than an hour, insulin (which was temporarily elevated by the pre-workout BCAAs) will be back to fasted baseline again. Immediately take 0.2 mg yohimbine and do 30-45 min of steady state cardio; cycling, treadmill walking at 3-3.5 mph (slight incline optional), brisk walking outside, etc. The yohimbine will rapidly take effect.

    12-1 PM: Eat."



    He also stated to drink BCAA's every two hours after your workout during the feeding time...so incorporating this into the MPS max stimulatory window (as described by Layne Norton previously quoted in my second or so post up with the reference included) I have come up with this for the 8 hour window from my understanding of what it entails in conjunction with Mark's teachings.


    Ramp down carbs with each meal.

    -Meal 1: High protein, high carbs, no/low fat (also the biggest meal and is the post workout meal)

    -BCAA’s

    -Meal 2: High protein, med/low carbs, med fat

    -BCAA’s

    -Meal 3: High protein, no/low carbs, med/high fat

    No processed junk food
    Relatively high intake of protein all the time
    Higher carb / lower fat on workout days
    Higher fat / lower carb on rest days

    +20% of caloric intake above BMR on training days
    -20% of caloric intake below BMR on resting (or low to moderate cardio for increased fat burning) days


    *Now for his given food selection ideas:

    LEAN GAINS FOOD SELECTION:
    http://freetheanimal.com/2010/12/lea...-approach.html


    REST DAY MEALS:
    http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/leangains-meals.html


    POST WORKOUT MEALS:
    http://www.leangains.com/2010/08/int...-part-two.html

    It was also apparent that he was NOT a proponent of nuts or dried fruit (from him saying so on LG).


    Anybody have any more leangain meals?
    Serious Nutrition Solutions rep

  23. I have a lot of recipes...

    But i'm a very restrict guy related to food choices... :S

    As an example non-workout day biggest meal - Healthy Garfield Lasagna

    - Zucchini (to make the 2 layers, bottom and middle)
    - tomato (to make the sauce)
    - ground beef 50% and ground chicken 50%
    - cottage cheese (substitute sour cream)
    - fat-free mozzarella oursimilar shredded

    Just do 1 layer of zuchinni, put the half the cottage, plus half the meats cooked with favorite spices and tomato, another layer and repeat. At the top put some shredded cheese to cover.

    Quantities depends on the goals.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    Ok first my aplogies, I haven't read the whole thread (just the first and last page)

    But I think a lot of my questions can be answered VERY SUCCINCTLY:

    Can someone post a sample diet for an AM workout?

    that's all. I lift around 10am usually. So I am thinking this means pre-wo Shake and BCAAs, then 11:30 post-WO HUGE meal, then another meal around 3:00 and the last meal around 7:00.

    Kleen/dreamweaver/anyone doing the diet, can you post what you've been doing? I really want to see how the macros vary between the 3 meals in the feeding period.
    Hey glad you decided to jump in, you'll be a valuable addition... first of all don't over think it, Lean Gains is quite forgiving, that being said I personally do a 50 30 20 PCF on workout days and 50 20 30 on nwd's. These are simply good macros for me being carb senstive... Now on wd's I only take in about 20% of my calories (maybe a bit more). This meal is mostly protein as I don't have a lot of carbs really and I save that for my big meal after workout. I train in the late afternoon so I am taking my pw shake at around 6pm and eating my big meal at 7pm (it doesn't matter how many meals just get the cals in). This meal has heavy duty protein and carbs and contains most of my cals, I add in some calorie dense stuff as it is quite a bit for one meal but it's mostly pretty clean and very satisfying..

    NWD's I take in about 35-40% of my calories in with my fast breaking meal. Lots of protein some fat and carbs. I have another meal around 5pm and another 8pm the 5pm meal is about another 40% and the 8pm the remaining 20% but no carbs...

    Now an option you might want to take is extending the fast till 4-5pm on nwd's if the cals are low from a bigger swing. I am currently using a smaller swing as I workout later in the day and need more nutrition the next day than most.

    Hope this helps, Chris trans am so he will be able to elaborate more on that...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  25. Unreal, if I was you I would train fasted unless you are completely against that idea. That way when you are done with your workout, you can have a huge meal and will feel full and satiated for the next 2-4 hours depending on when you got up that day. The days I work out in the AM fasted I follow it up with easily 16-20 ozs of meat, not super picky if it is lean or not, about 100+ grams of carbs and maybe some fruit. If you don't want to eat that much meat, throw down a cup or more of cottage cheese. I vary my food choices up and I only measure out my carbs as I have to watch them, even with lean gains. All of what I eat is based on how I feel, I have not counted cals at all on lean gains and see body comp changes every few days, it really works that fast. Lots of great information on the website and after the first few days, your stomach is used to the BIG meals for fast breaking and you will be surprised how not hungry you are later in the day. Curious how it goes for you as we all know your training expertise is second to none.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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