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The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    If it is pretty well priced, I would not mind giving it a go for say maybe the last week of my upcoming Hallow-Lean Prep!!!
    The one **** sells if 29.99 I think, plus you can use any of the **** reps coupon code for an additional 15% off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    TurningGreen - Honestly caloric intake is very personal. I have a slower or more efficient metabolism, so I can do more with less. I gain easily and I don't use any formula to figure out what I expend throughout the day. I know for me bw x 13-14 is my maintenance number. So now I am 205 2665-2870 is my maintenance range. Then do the -20 / +20 you get 2132 -2296 on a burn day, and 3198-3444 for the build day. Honestly, I would more than likely start to gain some body mass mass at the bw x 14 level, that would probably be more of a lean bulk for me.

    Now if you really expend 1300 cals a day and are counting that then you should be higher than me because I don't, but maybe only 500 cals more on a build day and leave the cals lower on the burn day to just keep burning fat with your activity level. Your muscle will not go anywhere even if you only got in 300-500 cals that day. I know you said you gain fat easily, so if you think your metabolism is similar to mine then try your body weight x 14 since you seem to have more activity going on in your typical day.
    Going with the Body Weight x13 Its very close to my BMR and the cals are much more manageable. I could even imagine cramming down 4,000+ calories in 8 hrs.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurningGreen View Post
    Going with the Body Weight x13 Its very close to my BMR and the cals are much more manageable. I could even imagine cramming down 4,000+ calories in 8 hrs.
    I used the BWx13 to get my figure for maintenance and then used the +20/-20 from there. For me that is working to a T for recomp. Very simple and very effective
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Yeah I think most people will train better in a fed state, if performance is the goal then your performance should be during the fed state more than likely. If just improving composition then I would give the nod to fasted training.

    Once you start eating big it is definitely very easy to over eat which is funny because the first time I started this i stopped after 3 days because it was just too much food. Then I read more, added more dense foods and was able to do it but extremely full to the point of discomfort almost. However 2 weeks in I was eating my cals no problem and even after that I had to start watching to make sure I didn't go over.

    As far as Thiomucase, when i read on it originally it was illegal for human use but can be picked up as a research chem. However now it is being sold in a mix with caffiene by **** at their site. Doug and I both got a sample of it with an order from them. Now the original research claimed exactly the same thing, and many professional body builders use it to tighten up their loose skinf from bulking huge then cutting down big time and it would be loose coming up on the contest.
    I think you put it very accurately, well said. That seems to be my general feeling too. I think I will stay on the semi-fasted LG approach until after my contest prep is over when I'll transition to performance and gains but still continue LG but train "fed".

    I was the exact same way, when I first started LG, I couldn't eat much either but now I'm able to stuff down a ton. I've started incorporated alot more fibrous greens to keep me from blowing macros by cheating or snacking constantly.

    Interesting note on the thiomucase. I think I need to look into it more. Thanks for the info!
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    I used the BWx13 to get my figure for maintenance and then used the +20/-20 from there. For me that is working to a T for recomp. Very simple and very effective
    How are you handling meal frequency? I looked like this today.
    1200 break fast 20% total cal
    1545 pre workout bcaa
    1600 workout
    1800 meal 2 50%
    1930 meal 3 30%

    The time between meal 2 and 3 was very short and I felt like I was eating them back to back. Is this the proper way to utilize this protocol or is there a more sensible way.

    4wk Androhard/Androlean 4wkPCT log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurningGreen View Post
    How are you handling meal frequency? I looked like this today.
    1200 break fast 20% total cal
    1545 pre workout bcaa
    1600 workout
    1800 meal 2 50%
    1930 meal 3 30%

    The time between meal 2 and 3 was very short and I felt like I was eating them back to back. Is this the proper way to utilize this protocol or is there a more sensible way.

    4wk Androhard/Androlean 4wkPCT log
    Holy $hit that is a lot of calories!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    Holy $hit that is a lot of calories!
    Doc, those are the times I ate my meals. I got around 3400 total calories today. I'm just worried about meal timing. Yeah that would be a azz load of cals!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurningGreen View Post
    Doc, those are the times I ate my meals. I got around 3400 total calories today. I'm just worried about meal timing. Yeah that would be a azz load of cals!
    LoL... I see it now, OMG... can you say Duhhhhh!!! Hey if you can't laugh at yourself then you are taking Life way to serious! Thanx for the clarification, because I was like... No way he is trying to lean up with those numbers even if you are Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler on an entire chemistry set worth of Sauce! I just added it up and that would come up to a little over 8,000 calories!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    LoL... I see it now, OMG... can you say Duhhhhh!!! Hey if you can't laugh at yourself then you are taking Life way to serious! Thanx for the clarification, because I was like... No way he is trying to lean up with those numbers even if you are Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler on an entire chemistry set worth of Sauce! I just added it up and that would come up to a little over 8,000 calories!
    HA! Im pretty sure my stomach would explode If I tried cramming 8,000 calories down...I don't even want to think about it.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443
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    Post from my log today

    "I am still trying to figure out my timing and macro-nutrient portioning, this is new to me so its going to take me a bit to get dialed in. My big observation and question is about meal timing. I break fast as 1200hr (20% total cals) then BCCAs at 1530 workout at 1600hrs, then meal 2 at 1745hrs (50% total cals) this is such a large meal and only leaves me about two hrs to get the last 30% of my calories in. Is it ok to eat those two last meals so close together (almost back to back)? Other than this I am enjoying the fasted feeling, it makes me feel light and I definitely seem more vascular throughout the day."

    4wk Androhard/Androlean 4wkPCT log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443
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    To my understanding nutrient timing is not important within the feeding window so what you have set up would probably be fine just as long as you stay within the confines of your macro and caloric targets. This type of diet really isbest kept simple. No need to worry about timing all that much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    To my understanding nutrient timing is not important within the feeding window so what you have set up would probably be fine just as long as you stay within the confines of your macro and caloric targets. This type of diet really isbest kept simple. No need to worry about timing all that much.
    Thanks, I felt like a pig, but I guess that's ok. I got my calories for the day, but still working on my macros. I'm so used to being an every 2-3 hr eater so this is a drastic change, but so far for the better.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    No amount of pasty white skin can hide those abs Doug. Do you still have the Thiomucase if so you should do a practice run with it in a few weeks and see how much is tightens everything up. I am curious myself. I have been holding on to mine to use for a picture or contest.
    Yep still have some saving for the last 2 weeks... hey I woke up this morning much much tighter and leaner it was very freaky biggest change in leanness I've seen in a while.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurningGreen View Post
    Thanks, I felt like a pig, but I guess that's ok. I got my calories for the day, but still working on my macros. I'm so used to being an every 2-3 hr eater so this is a drastic change, but so far for the better.
    It takes a little adjusting to, but once you get it down its like second nature and it becomes hard to imagine eating any other way
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    It takes a little adjusting to, but once you get it down its like second nature and it becomes hard to imagine eating any other way
    seriously man, I eat like 160g Carbs, 180g protein, 30g fat in one meal. It's like eating 2 plates of food. And I usually just eat 2 times, cept on my refeed day where I spread it out. 1200g carbs kinda hard when I don't eat any carbs from liquid sources and I don't like sweets... at all... White potato, sweet potato and rice is all I need to be in heaven
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    Turning Green you could move your window back a couple hours if it would be easier on you then you would have longer to eat after the gym. Nothing wrong with a 2:00-10:00 window.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Turning Green you could move your window back a couple hours if it would be easier on you then you would have longer to eat after the gym. Nothing wrong with a 2:00-10:00 window.
    Ive pushed my meal time back for the last couple days, its working much better.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443
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    Fasted training is great, but all my workouts are after work... not having ANY food from 7am - 7-8pm is too rough for me... so I just eat 1-9, meal 1 small pre workout BCAAs, meal 2 (HUGE MEAL). Works well. I found i can eat 2.5lbs of chicken breast, 2 cups of rice, 5 bananas in roughly 30mins.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Fasted training is great, but all my workouts are after work... not having ANY food from 7am - 7-8pm is too rough for me... so I just eat 1-9, meal 1 small pre workout BCAAs, meal 2 (HUGE MEAL). Works well. I found i can eat 2.5lbs of chicken breast, 2 cups of rice, 5 bananas in roughly 30mins.
    That would work just fine. There are many people that workout in the late afternoon or evening and follow a similar approach
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Fasted training is great, but all my workouts are after work... not having ANY food from 7am - 7-8pm is too rough for me... so I just eat 1-9, meal 1 small pre workout BCAAs, meal 2 (HUGE MEAL). Works well. I found i can eat 2.5lbs of chicken breast, 2 cups of rice, 5 bananas in roughly 30mins.
    There is nothing wrong with doing what you described. Your 8 hr eating window can be wherever you need it to be and is convenient for you
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    There is nothing wrong with doing what you described. Your 8 hr eating window can be wherever you need it to be and is convenient for you
    Yup that's why I love it lol
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    Lean Gains is working great so far even with my below average macros I lost almost 1.5lbs of BF and maintained my LBM. Im hoping as I get my macros dialed in the results will be even better. My complete rundown for the week is on my log if interested.

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/primordial-performance/177113-4wk-androhard-androlean-17.html#post2931773
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Fasted training is great, but all my workouts are after work... not having ANY food from 7am - 7-8pm is too rough for me... so I just eat 1-9, meal 1 small pre workout BCAAs, meal 2 (HUGE MEAL). Works well. I found i can eat 2.5lbs of chicken breast, 2 cups of rice, 5 bananas in roughly 30mins.
    I'd like to see a video of that! You'd beat Man Vs. Food! 40oz chicken, 16oz rice, and 5 bananas in 30 minutes? You must be one big fella to need that much!
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    You guys may have discussed this earlier in the thread, but are any of you making MB's protein fluff? I made some yesterday from Dymatize Elite Chocolate Brownie and it was unbelievable. 40g protein powder, 1/4 cup milk and mixed it with a hand blender for about 10 minutes. I felt like I had eaten a bowling ball when I was finished, too! You guys have any recommendations on other poweders to try? MB says casein protein yields the best results, so I was going to look into buying some of that next.
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    Today's Trivia will take place today Monday, July 11th at 3:00pm Eastern Standard time! REDEFINE NUTRITON Weightlifting/Bodybuilding Trivia...
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    Idk if this has been asked before but how does the inclusion of EC stack improve fat loss?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quil View Post
    You guys may have discussed this earlier in the thread, but are any of you making MB's protein fluff? I made some yesterday from Dymatize Elite Chocolate Brownie and it was unbelievable. 40g protein powder, 1/4 cup milk and mixed it with a hand blender for about 10 minutes. I felt like I had eaten a bowling ball when I was finished, too! You guys have any recommendations on other poweders to try? MB says casein protein yields the best results, so I was going to look into buying some of that next.
    I still haven't all in all I am pretty lazy when it comes to food. I have been "meaning to" try that and the layne norton cheese cake out but alas I am too lazy to do it if not already out shopping I won't bother going to a store just for the ingredients.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhern216 View Post
    Idk if this has been asked before but how does the inclusion of EC stack improve fat loss?
    Yes definitely.
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    Since I'm basically a fatty, I'm going to be running a Protein Sparing Modified fast for three weeks and then IF/LG from then on, but I want to use the PSMF macros/cal intake on my "burn" days. Do you guys think dropping that low on burn days would be an issue? It'd end up being something like

    Workout day: ~3500kcal
    burn day: 1000-1500kcal

    Workout calories are just a rough ballpark to give you guys an idea. They'll be modified as I lose weight, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asgard1913 View Post
    Since I'm basically a fatty, I'm going to be running a Protein Sparing Modified fast for three weeks and then IF/LG from then on, but I want to use the PSMF macros/cal intake on my "burn" days. Do you guys think dropping that low on burn days would be an issue? It'd end up being something like

    Workout day: ~3500kcal
    burn day: 1000-1500kcal

    Workout calories are just a rough ballpark to give you guys an idea. They'll be modified as I lose weight, etc.
    You can get away with dropping your cals lower on burn days. Whats important is not going OVER the mark you set. Going under is not a problem and actually encouraged if you can swng it
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    Keep in mind Rick that these are modifications to the actual Lean Gains protocol. Although we find the hugely effective for weight loss I beleive that 16/8 is pretty concrete in the Lean Gains circle. However this is more of an Intermittent Fasting thread that started with Lean Gains but has morphed into a much greater Intermittent Fasting thread instead.

    I keep mentioning that in ADF Alternate Day Fasting they often fast all day and have about 350 calories worth of protein just before bed. Then they can start eating first thing in the morning on the build days. I am working my way toward this to see if eating directly after the workout seems to build more. I think I would still cut my eating off at 8:00 on the build day and fast until 8:00PM on the burn day. Have the 350 cals of protein again after 24 hours of fasting then fast until morning and then go lift and eat immediately after. Of course I would supplement with aminos on the off days at least 5 grams at a time and 4-6 times a day. No need for them on the build days plenty of protein already floating around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Keep in mind Rick that these are modifications to the actual Lean Gains protocol. Although we find the hugely effective for weight loss I beleive that 16/8 is pretty concrete in the Lean Gains circle. However this is more of an Intermittent Fasting thread that started with Lean Gains but has morphed into a much greater Intermittent Fasting thread instead.

    I keep mentioning that in ADF Alternate Day Fasting they often fast all day and have about 350 calories worth of protein just before bed. Then they can start eating first thing in the morning on the build days. I am working my way toward this to see if eating directly after the workout seems to build more. I think I would still cut my eating off at 8:00 on the build day and fast until 8:00PM on the burn day. Have the 350 cals of protein again after 24 hours of fasting then fast until morning and then go lift and eat immediately after. Of course I would supplement with aminos on the off days at least 5 grams at a time and 4-6 times a day. No need for them on the build days plenty of protein already floating around.
    If the fast day doesn't make me go insane I wouldn't mind this kinda protocol for Ultimate recomp.
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    I definitely find the extended fasts on burn days more effective. If I could control hunger better, then I would try out something more along the lines of the ADF method you described Kleen. But burn days are rough enough as is for me, and I feel like I'm hungry all day at 1800 Cal's so I don't know how well I would do with it. If I saw through someone else's progress that it is a big difference between the traditional 16/8 lean gains that I'm following I think that would be enough for me to give it a shot
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    Hey all. I wanted to just throw something out here recently that I think is relevant and worth looking at.

    I had been on LG for 1-2 months at the time, and I went to have my bloods done. I got the results back - not pretty at all. BUN was high, which is kind of ok since you eat a lot of protein (but in January I was also eating a lot of protein and had a middle-range BUN). However, before my AST and ALT were at 20ish. According to the most recent bloods, both were about 4x their normal value.

    While I do not claim to say that this is why it happened, I will at least say that it is logical this could happen if you're stuffing so much protein in a small window of time. The thing is if you're putting in that much protein in a condensed window of time, it follows your body has to strain harder to process it (if it in fact process it all, anyways).

    Bottom line is I suggest you guys make sure you are not having problems with your liver values and get bloodwork done sometime if you haven't. If you're good then cool beans

    EDIT: It might be worth noting that I had been taking AnaBeta for 3 days at this point.
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    very interesting results on the health indicators, were you using/doing anything else during that time?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torobestia View Post
    Hey all. I wanted to just throw something out here recently that I think is relevant and worth looking at.

    I had been on LG for 1-2 months at the time, and I went to have my bloods done. I got the results back - not pretty at all. BUN was high, which is kind of ok since you eat a lot of protein (but in January I was also eating a lot of protein and had a middle-range BUN). However, before my AST and ALT were at 20ish. According to the most recent bloods, both were about 4x their normal value.

    While I do not claim to say that this is why it happened, I will at least say that it is logical this could happen if you're stuffing so much protein in a small window of time. The thing is if you're putting in that much protein in a condensed window of time, it follows your body has to strain harder to process it (if it in fact process it all, anyways).

    Bottom line is I suggest you guys make sure you are not having problems with your liver values and get bloodwork done sometime if you haven't. If you're good then cool beans
    I wonder if I can get a test covered by my insurance... I've been taking NAC (600mg) twice a day so I'm curious to see if my levels would be as high.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    very interesting results on the health indicators, were you using/doing anything else during that time?
    Well I had been on AnaBeta for about 3 days at this point, too. I'll edit my post and make sure to note that.
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    How much protein were you taking in exactly? No need to go over 1-1.5g per lb of lean mass. If you were taking in well over that it could cause issues regardless of how much time during the day you are taking it in..
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    hmm, very interesting. MY bun lvls are always high ... haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickRock13 View Post
    How much protein were you taking in exactly? No need to go over 1-1.5g per lb of lean mass. If you were taking in well over that it could cause issues regardless of how much time during the day you are taking it in..
    Ive noticed an unintentional drop in my protein consumption...not sure why. I'm still getting at least 1g per lb of body weight and not noticed any difference in the effectiveness of the protocol. I am noticing some increased muscle striation and separation as well as being more vascular
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    Unrelated, but can someone give me some insight as to why every time I post from my iphone I get unsubd from the thread I posted on? Not Cool.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443
  

  
 

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