The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

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  1. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    MMMMMM!!!!!! It isn't blow until you choose to continue to eat that way. You could easily stop eating now and I bet you don't come close to your off day cals. So hold off and have a small dinner. That is what I do when I overstep during a meal. Just adjust the rest of the day.
    effectively thats my plan, dinner will just be an oversized chicken breast with salad greens.
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Also are you as lean as you actually want to be? If you are not then you should NOT be running a bulk. On top of that bulks in Lean Gains are saved for those in the single digits. So if you are not as lean as you want to be then I recommend you simply follow the Recomp plan posted in the first link of the second post in this thread.
    I totally agree with your post and especially the concept above -- it's relatively easy to stay lean once you get there with LG/IF, so I definitely concur that you want to get to your ideal leanness goal before bulking with extra calories. This allows for you fine tune your intake to pinpoint that narrow calorie range where you're eating an optimal surplus to slowly build muscle with minimal fat gain.

    xigotmailx, I would look into continuing your cut until you reach your desired leanness and then using the AndroMass to help add a few lean pounds once you're there. Actually, if you just switch the AndroMass and AndroLean layout you described above and run AndroLean with an LG fat loss protocol first it could help you progress your current cut before switching back to focusing on adding muscle. But it's ultimately up to you!
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Just do some extra cardio tonight, that would offset the extra calories.

    Or just enjoy the extra nutrients!
    Yah I do that too, better still if I want to eat extra I just do enough cardio to cover my caloric intake ahead of time. Pay for it before I eat it... I have done cardio the next morning for some slight overeating on a Friday night. Nothing too drastic though.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug
  4. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Just do some extra cardio tonight, that would offset the extra calories.
    I'd have to be doing some cardio already to be able to do extra
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
    I totally agree with your post and especially the concept above -- it's relatively easy to stay lean once you get there with LG/IF, so I definitely concur that you want to get to your ideal leanness goal before bulking with extra calories. This allows for you fine tune your intake to pinpoint that narrow calorie range where you're eating an optimal surplus to slowly build muscle with minimal fat gain.
    Good to know, after contest I can just lean bulk no problem and still remain very lean during the off season. This is a total change of lifestyle and I like it!!!
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I'd have to be doing some cardio already to be able to do extra
    WELL DONE SIR!

    I am jealous now...
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  7. Although I just really don't think on meal, or one day is any kind of deal breaker with IF. I would definitely NOT DO EXTRA CARDIO to make up for anything. That is just me. If I was getting ready for a contest or something maybe but then again if getting ready for a contest I would not have blown the day so where is the urgency to burn them off.

    If in general just trying to make improvements the quality of your life should be as minimally affected as possible. Me taking an extra 30 minutes of unplanned cardio time to make up for really enjoying myself on occasion would just be silly, and needlessly obsessive to me. Adjusting the intake later is minimal impact, and or just saying damn that was good and moving on with the day like nothing happened are the only options I would take. Of course I am all about proving that it doesn't have to be so black and white or so obsessive. I tried to do the counting thing again but honestly just keeping track of estimations is working well for me right now. I know when I mess up, I know because I make a conscious decision that it is worth it to me at that moment. Of course when fat loss slows or muscle mass increases stop then I look and say well I have had 4 questionable meals this week no wonder I am not losing, or look I know I didn't get enough calories on 2 of my lift days no wonder my LBM is not reacting the way I want it to. I am leaning up rapidly still recomping and totally enjoying life this way.

    Of course I have mentioned it a few times that even with me being "loose" in my logging of food I know basically what I have eaten throughout the day. I have a running tally of my estimations and several of my meals are permanet fixtures in my diet so I look at them and know OKay 780 cals there 100 pro, 65 carbs yada yada just automatically.

    I guess the message here is don't be too obsessed with the "perfect" ratios, or the exact amount of calories. A good ball park estimate if you are familiar enough with food should be just fine. We will see how much more detail I need to put into it as I go below 9% which should be within the next week or two. I think closer to 7% I may have to pay more attention but we will see.

    My goal with eating, and training progress is, How easy and simplified can we make it and still get great results. So that is why it seems I am anti- micromanaging when it comes to diet. It is definitely the MOST INCONVENIENT part of the lifting game. I am just trying to push that envelope regarding how far i can take it with estimates and a few true up type checks along the way.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Although I just really don't think on meal, or one day is any kind of deal breaker with IF. I would definitely NOT DO EXTRA CARDIO to make up for anything. That is just me. If I was getting ready for a contest or something maybe but then again if getting ready for a contest I would not have blown the day so where is the urgency to burn them off.

    If in general just trying to make improvements the quality of your life should be as minimally affected as possible. Me taking an extra 30 minutes of unplanned cardio time to make up for really enjoying myself on occasion would just be silly, and needlessly obsessive to me. Adjusting the intake later is minimal impact, and or just saying damn that was good and moving on with the day like nothing happened are the only options I would take. Of course I am all about proving that it doesn't have to be so black and white or so obsessive. I tried to do the counting thing again but honestly just keeping track of estimations is working well for me right now. I know when I mess up, I know because I make a conscious decision that it is worth it to me at that moment. Of course when fat loss slows or muscle mass increases stop then I look and say well I have had 4 questionable meals this week no wonder I am not losing, or look I know I didn't get enough calories on 2 of my lift days no wonder my LBM is not reacting the way I want it to. I am leaning up rapidly still recomping and totally enjoying life this way.

    Of course I have mentioned it a few times that even with me being "loose" in my logging of food I know basically what I have eaten throughout the day. I have a running tally of my estimations and several of my meals are permanet fixtures in my diet so I look at them and know OKay 780 cals there 100 pro, 65 carbs yada yada just automatically.

    I guess the message here is don't be too obsessed with the "perfect" ratios, or the exact amount of calories. A good ball park estimate if you are familiar enough with food should be just fine. We will see how much more detail I need to put into it as I go below 9% which should be within the next week or two. I think closer to 7% I may have to pay more attention but we will see.

    My goal with eating, and training progress is, How easy and simplified can we make it and still get great results. So that is why it seems I am anti- micromanaging when it comes to diet. It is definitely the MOST INCONVENIENT part of the lifting game. I am just trying to push that envelope regarding how far i can take it with estimates and a few true up type checks along the way.
    Yah I have a prep right around the corner and I enjoy being on top of things, I am obsessive so I am pretty comfortable with it, but I do like the idea that I can relax a bit come the off season after my contest. As long as it does not become habit forming. Another reason for my micro-management is the fact that I am still trying to guage my body's reaction and the more I know the more I can relax, if that makes sense.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  9. Completely, I am sure you remember me being allover the place with this. Testing things. I imagine if I count every little thing I would make better progress but for now the progress is mind boggling with the effort and time I put into diet. I have never has such a successful recomp.

    I don't expect most people to fall into the category I have put myself in. At least at our level. We got here by being meticulous about diet. I don't currently have anything looming so I have no pressure and can really just test what is possible with minimal attention to the details. Like say right now I have not broken my fast as of yet. It is a cardio day. Now I am gonna go walk for an hour and come back and IF I feel like it is time for me to eat I will. If not hungry I will ride it out until later or even this evening and have a big meal. I found 2 nice sized big meals feel great to me on cardio days and still allows me to have a good bit of freedom in my choices. If I only want to go to say 150 grams of carbs that leaves me 75 per meal or 100 in my fast breaker and 50 in my last meal. However I feel like breaking it up really.
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Completely, I am sure you remember me being allover the place with this. Testing things. I imagine if I count every little thing I would make better progress but for now the progress is mind boggling with the effort and time I put into diet. I have never has such a successful recomp.

    I don't expect most people to fall into the category I have put myself in. At least at our level. We got here by being meticulous about diet. I don't currently have anything looming so I have no pressure and can really just test what is possible with minimal attention to the details. Like say right now I have not broken my fast as of yet. It is a cardio day. Now I am gonna go walk for an hour and come back and IF I feel like it is time for me to eat I will. If not hungry I will ride it out until later or even this evening and have a big meal. I found 2 nice sized big meals feel great to me on cardio days and still allows me to have a good bit of freedom in my choices. If I only want to go to say 150 grams of carbs that leaves me 75 per meal or 100 in my fast breaker and 50 in my last meal. However I feel like breaking it up really.
    Hah that's what I have been thinking .. extending my fast on off days to increase my satisfaction when I reduce calories further. I will be going down to 2100 on off days and I don't want to spread that over 3 meals... I will be much more satisfied waiting till 5pm and gorging a bit...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  11. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Hah that's what I have been thinking .. extending my fast on off days to increase my satisfaction when I reduce calories further. I will be going down to 2100 on off days and I don't want to spread that over 3 meals... I will be much more satisfied waiting till 5pm and gorging a bit...
    On low cal days that is definitely the way to do it. You actually feel full and satisfied for at least part of the day.
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    On low cal days that is definitely the way to do it. You actually feel full and satisfied for at least part of the day.
    My thinking exactly...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  13. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Hah that's what I have been thinking .. extending my fast on off days to increase my satisfaction when I reduce calories further. I will be going down to 2100 on off days and I don't want to spread that over 3 meals... I will be much more satisfied waiting till 5pm and gorging a bit...
    I fast until 5-5:30, and eat basically 1 big meal at 5-5:30, and a small meal at 8-8:30. I have been doing this for a while now, training day or not.

    This way I get to eat a bit more in that one meal, and I actually found myself getting more hungry after I ate at 12:30, vs fasting all day. However come 3:30-4pm, I am watching the clock pretty hardcore.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    The first rule of Lean Gains is there are no cheat meals!

    But yeah, I would classify it as that!

    2 hyuge servings of Butter chicken
    2 hyuge servings of Saag
    2 Tandoori Chicken legs
    3 Samosas
    4 servings Naan
    3 big servings curried vegetables
    1 bowl rice dessert (forgot name)
    5 Gulab Jamun balls w/loads of syrup

    and when I got home I had a brownie, a glass of milk, and passed out for the evening (8PM)

    I was at about 5600 calories for the day, a bit above my 4400 target (20% over maintenance)!

    This morning, cleared it ALL out before quads!
    WTF? I'm in India working running away from this and you eat like a mad man loool

    yesterday

    1 Butter panner
    4 Tandoori Chicken tighs
    2 entire naan's lol
    2 vegetable palav

    And i was done lol but man 5 Gulab Jamun balls are so good loool and i run from them!
  15. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    WTF? I'm in India working running away from this and you eat like a mad man loool

    yesterday

    1 Butter panner
    4 Tandoori Chicken tighs
    2 entire naan's lol
    2 vegetable palav

    And i was done lol but man 5 Gulab Jamun balls are so good loool and i run from them!
    hmm for me yesterday was a tandori chicken leg + thigh, about 1/2lb of goat curry, some vegetable palav, 3 cups of chicken biriyani, some chole, and crap like I remember the rest only one gulab jamun tho.

    Last night I'm not sure how badly I blew out timing as we went out shooting pool at like 830ish and I drank steadily till 230am. Feel decent surprisingly this morning, tired but not really hung over. Started with sugar free red bull + sailor jerry then started doing the hourly shot specials, which i don't even remember what they were now. bar tab was around $90 for me + the wife
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  16. I'm in india and i'm running from here!

    And you guy's are eating a lot of Indian food? Spicy food here kills my stomach...

    Here most of the time i'm almost a pure Cetogenic Guy

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    WTF? I'm in India working running away from this and you eat like a mad man loool

    yesterday

    1 Butter panner
    4 Tandoori Chicken tighs
    2 entire naan's lol
    2 vegetable palav

    And i was done lol but man 5 Gulab Jamun balls are so good loool and i run from them!
    Looks tasty! Yeah, I don't eat that way often, more of a cheat/treat. The Gulab Jamun was a bit more than I usually eat, but the new management of this restaurant has made all of the food better/fresher.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    I'm in india and i'm running from here!

    And you guy's are eating a lot of Indian food? Spicy food here kills my stomach...

    Here most of the time i'm almost a pure Cetogenic Guy
    I paid for it the next morning, cleared me out, but not too bad. My wife gets hit harder, it takes her a day to recover. We love carbs, but I try to stay away.

    I would be in a LOT of trouble if I were in India!!! Probably eat a lot of Tandoori.
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  18. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    I only eat it about once a month, maybe less than that really
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    hmm for me yesterday was a tandori chicken leg + thigh, about 1/2lb of goat curry, some vegetable palav, 3 cups of chicken biriyani, some chole, and crap like I remember the rest only one gulab jamun tho.

    Last night I'm not sure how badly I blew out timing as we went out shooting pool at like 830ish and I drank steadily till 230am. Feel decent surprisingly this morning, tired but not really hung over. Started with sugar free red bull + sailor jerry then started doing the hourly shot specials, which i don't even remember what they were now. bar tab was around $90 for me + the wife
    You're making me want to go back!!!

    Drinking is a hard one to figure out, but every once in a while I don't think it'd be too bad for you. I just can't stand spending money like that when I can drink for much less at home, and even then I rarely do anymore! My wife though, she loves her wine! Dealing with our 4yr old, it's her reward / patience booster at the end of the night!
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    I fast until 5-5:30, and eat basically 1 big meal at 5-5:30, and a small meal at 8-8:30. I have been doing this for a while now, training day or not.

    This way I get to eat a bit more in that one meal, and I actually found myself getting more hungry after I ate at 12:30, vs fasting all day. However come 3:30-4pm, I am watching the clock pretty hardcore.
    I am watching the clock for any fast break, I think it has more to do with the fact that I'm getting close to chow time...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  21. The IF method is really interesting. I also want to follow the IF diet but I have a few questions: For me its easier to eat from 7:30am to roughly 15:30pm(maybe shorter). Does it matter that much? Leangains recommed to fast until noon, but I have to do a lot of work(including training) in the evening and I dont want to spend the time where Iam not even thinking about eating at all(due to work) with eating. I also tend to be very hungry in the morning hours than to be in the evening.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by mcgeier View Post
    The IF method is really interesting. I also want to follow the IF diet but I have a few questions: For me its easier to eat from 7:30am to roughly 15:30pm(maybe shorter). Does it matter that much? Leangains recommed to fast until noon, but I have to do a lot of work(including training) in the evening and I dont want to spend the time where Iam not even thinking about eating at all(due to work) with eating. I also tend to be very hungry in the morning hours than to be in the evening.
    It seems like you could, just follow the 16hr fast, 8hr feed protocol.

    If you're training in the evening, you'd probably want to make sure you're getting in a good amount of food pre-workout, so making your last meal rich in protein and slow carbs, and some good fats would probably be best.

    Try it out, see if it works, and adjust from there. It's all a big experiment anyway!!!
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  23. The Lean Gains can be used during any 16/8 hour window. He recommends the 12-8 because that is easier for most people and they get to eat dinner with their family. However otherwise it really doesn't matter too much other than personal preference. Also as you can see you do not have to do the exact amounts of time. Man I am really hungry now, but I won't be breaking fast until about 1:00 PM. I have a lunch date with the wife and not even sure what we are going to eat, but I am starting to think maybe a huge double meat chopped baker from Pappa's BBQ smothered with jalapenos that is EASILY 1500 cals right there.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    The Lean Gains can be used during any 16/8 hour window. He recommends the 12-8 because that is easier for most people and they get to eat dinner with their family. However otherwise it really doesn't matter too much other than personal preference. Also as you can see you do not have to do the exact amounts of time. Man I am really hungry now, but I won't be breaking fast until about 1:00 PM. I have a lunch date with the wife and not even sure what we are going to eat, but I am starting to think maybe a huge double meat chopped baker from Pappa's BBQ smothered with jalapenos that is EASILY 1500 cals right there.
    Jealous.. that sounds so amazing right now, Dieting sometimes =
    I hope everybody thinks i'm crazy, because you cannot be a sane person and go through the type of pain i am willing to put myself through to be where i want to be, Once I completely win the war between my mind and body, my reign will begin. ~Me

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    It seems like you could, just follow the 16hr fast, 8hr feed protocol.

    If you're training in the evening, you'd probably want to make sure you're getting in a good amount of food pre-workout, so making your last meal rich in protein and slow carbs, and some good fats would probably be best.

    Try it out, see if it works, and adjust from there. It's all a big experiment anyway!!!
    . Thanks. Yeah I will adjust depending on results. Will be taking some bcaas after workout since I usually workout at 11 pm.

  26. Yes, BCAA are very good during the 16hr fast!
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  27. Quote Originally Posted by thetinyguy View Post
    Jealous.. that sounds so amazing right now, Dieting sometimes =
    Agreed but this makes things a lot easier. I diet on my low calorie days and scarf on my anabolic days.
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  28. Quote Originally Posted by thetinyguy View Post
    Jealous.. that sounds so amazing right now, Dieting sometimes =
    Yeah.. Every time I get on here and read the stuff they are eating it instantly makes me HUNGRY!!!
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  29. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Agreed but this makes things a lot easier. I diet on my low calorie days and scarf on my anabolic days.
    The funny thing is that's what I've been doing the past few weeks, On off days i do cardio and diet pretty strictly but on days i train i eat whatever/whenever. There HAS to be a benefit to it because your supporting muscle growth on the days you NEED it and on the off days your still maintaining enough protein and eating less calories. I'm just gonna stick with it and see where i end up in a few weeks.
    I hope everybody thinks i'm crazy, because you cannot be a sane person and go through the type of pain i am willing to put myself through to be where i want to be, Once I completely win the war between my mind and body, my reign will begin. ~Me

  30. Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    Yeah.. Every time I get on here and read the stuff they are eating it instantly makes me HUNGRY!!!
    Yeah i love eating so i had to adapt a little to IF.
    I hope everybody thinks i'm crazy, because you cannot be a sane person and go through the type of pain i am willing to put myself through to be where i want to be, Once I completely win the war between my mind and body, my reign will begin. ~Me
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