Running after lifting.

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    Running after lifting.


    Is it bad to run after you lift? Someone told me today that if you run after you lift it breaks down your muscles.

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    From what i understand your heart rate at which you maintain while exercising after anaerobic activity (without carbs or other macros in between the two) will determine what your body uses as energy. If you have depleted your glycogen stores and start to run at a high intensity gluconeogenesis (break down of aminos acids to be converted into glycogen) will occur. But if you use low intensity cardio (walking @ 3.5-4mph) your body should use fat as energy.
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    Someone posted something like this previously. Cardio after heavy lifting is excellent for you because it loosens you up and something else that was much more technical. Just don't go over 40min because ya gotta get that protein shake in.
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    3X a week at a 4.5-5.0 pace for 20 min.Anymore than that,you'll began to burn muscle....AFTER you lift obviously.You may have wiggle room as far as pace goes,but I would definitely keep it at 3x/20min. max.
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    Better than before you lift. I knew a kid who loved to "warm up" before lifting - and I love to also - but I run like half a mile to a mile tops. This kid ran like 3-5 miles. By the time he got to the iron he was exhausted. Totally shot his stamina.
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    It's best to split up aerobics and weight lifting if you're doing them in the same day. For instance, do your cardio in the morning and lifting in the afternoon or evening.

    If you do cardio before a weight lifting session, you're going to already be fatigued and not able to achieve full intensity. After your weight session, you need proper nutrition, since the longer you wait, the more catabolic you become, which is something you want to avoid at all times! That alone should deter anyone from wanting to do cardio right after a weight training session.

    So, in my opinion, no matter what your goals are - gaining mass, losing fat, building aerobic capacity - it's best to separate weights from cardio.

    However, I do think it's okay to do some light cardio before working out to warm up. I usually only do this with legs and only do some light jogging for about 5 minutes before I do pre-workout stretches.

    Just google it and you'll find lots of independent research articles about this.
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    agreed, light cardio of 5-15 minutes (jogging, bike, etc..) is fine prior to working out. Just obviously keep it relatively low impact and not very demanding. I do that a great deal on colder days, I will hit the bike for 10-15 minutes just to get the blood moving and a slight sweat.
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    I just think that if increasing lean mass or maintaining lean mass while you cut is your goal, cardio is best separated from weight lifting.

    You'll find different opinions about this. It's just one of those things. If you're doing cardio along with weights and still making progress towards your goals, then you don't necessarily have to fix what aint broken! I just think what I think because of my own personal experiences mixed with what I've read and what I've seen.
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    I was learned that running after lifting is great, because during heavy lifting you use up your immediately available energy(such as alotta carbs) then when you do cardio your body will be drawing on reserves.
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    Drink Xtend during cardio
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBigPR View Post
    Drink Xtend during cardio
    Can you expand on this? It was suggested in another thread but what is the benefit in n00b terms.

    TIA
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    Basically when doing cardio or lifting weights, your body goes into a catabolic rate. Depending on ur heartrate you can enter fat burning mode or just lose muscle.

    Logic behind BCAA's during workouts is for your body to feed off of the BCAA's and not touch muscle or go into a catabolic rate. I myself know a big difference from using Xtend to not. My recovery skyrocketed as well as me being alot leaner than usual. Not bloat that i got from just drinking water.

    There will be some people who contest the use of BCAA's and functions of the body but it comes down to when ur body is being "pushed" cortisol levels go up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBigPR View Post
    Basically when doing cardio or lifting weights, your body goes into a catabolic rate. Depending on ur heartrate you can enter fat burning mode or just lose muscle.

    Logic behind BCAA's during workouts is for your body to feed off of the BCAA's and not touch muscle or go into a catabolic rate. I myself know a big difference from using Xtend to not. My recovery skyrocketed as well as me being alot leaner than usual. Not bloat that i got from just drinking water.

    There will be some people who contest the use of BCAA's and functions of the body but it comes down to when ur body is being "pushed" cortisol levels go up.
    I might give this theory a go. I also found that nutraplanet has BCAAs for a little cheaper too on here. Is it true too much L glutamine can be hazardous?
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    It's perfectly fine as long as your nutrition is SPOT ON!
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    I am a huge fan of running after lifting. Saying that a certain rate or time is going to make you catabolic is asinine. I have done cardio after lifting for years without loss in LBM or strength. Nutrition determines your anabolic state more than anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I am a huge fan of running after lifting. Saying that a certain rate or time is going to make you catabolic is asinine. I have done cardio after lifting for years without loss in LBM or strength. Nutrition determines your anabolic state more than anything.
    YOUR comment is asinine!COMMON sense dictates that if you lift for 45-60 min,and do cardio balls to the walls DIRECTLY after lifting for longer than 20 minutes,it's counterproductive to say the least.You are wrong!..I'm sure you are one of those individuals who CLAIMS they lift for 2-3 hours also,and don't become catabolic then either!To summarize....Lift 45-60 min.Keep cardio within a 15-20 minute window 3 times a week to AVOID muscle lost,and to keep your MOST important muscle healthy..your heart.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H8duke View Post
    YOUR comment is asinine!COMMON sense dictates that if you lift for 45-60 min,and do cardio balls to the walls DIRECTLY after lifting for longer than 20 minutes,it's counterproductive to say the least.You are wrong!..I'm sure you are one of those individuals who CLAIMS they lift for 2-3 hours also,and don't become catabolic then either!To summarize....Lift 45-60 min.Keep cardio within a 15-20 minute window 3 times a week to AVOID muscle lost,and to keep your MOST important muscle healthy..your heart.
    Say you're saying this essentially:

    It doesn't matter if you are in a 2000 kcal surplus, if you perform intense cardio after lifting you will lose muscle.

    Please, produce some sort of evidence for your claim outside of brotelligence.
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    i've read articles, that say when you lift before cardio that you use up all the carbs in your system, so when you get to do cardio that your burning fat the whole time your doing the cardio, on the other hand when you do cardio first your burning the carbs and it really hurts your ability to push yourself during lifting....i think this makes sense so i kind of laugh when i see ppl doing more than just 5 minutes of cardio before they lift
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Say you're saying this essentially:

    It doesn't matter if you are in a 2000 kcal surplus, if you perform intense cardio after lifting you will lose muscle.

    Please, produce some sort of evidence for your claim outside of brotelligence.
    2000 kcal surplus and intense cardio.WHY??? Most people either do one or the other depending on goals.The obvious cal increase while cycling or the "skinny" guy who can't seem to gain.Google catabolic.You're embarrassing yourself and giving out misguided info.....Let me guess.You stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night? 8,000+ post an you DON'T understand the human body why/when it becomes catabolic?Anyone who is serious about weight training is taught/learned from the very early stages what catabolism is.NO need to continue to argue the obvious.
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    personally, this is not a subject to get upset about. yes, many different people have opinions and they or may not be based on any kind of evidence. However, from actual proven results that i have seen in myself, cardio after lifting is one of the best times to do it. One, i have read study after study that confirms weightlifting is an anaerobic activity and will deplete your stored glycogen stores. however, it is best to provide your body with some kind of amino acids before doing cardio after lifting, to prevent your body from burning muscle and only turning to stubborn fat stores. for me, i lift early in the mornign when my glycogen stores are pretty low anyway, and have a protein shake right before i lift with a lot of fat in it. i also bring some to the gym with me and sip on it constantly as i lift, so that when it comes time to do cardio my body still has a sufficient energy source (fat) to burn, instead of muscle. I do about 15-20 minutes at most of HIIT after lifting, then finish my protein shake and eat a huge breakfast. i havent lost any strength or size doing this, and i am actually slowly gaining weight (which is awesome because i know im destroying my fat, im about 6% now)

    youll get a lot of opinions, so dont pay attention to those who think they know whats best. experiment with different regiments until you see results. anabolic minds is here to help
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    Quote Originally Posted by H8duke View Post
    2000 kcal surplus and intense cardio.WHY??? Most people either do one or the other depending on goals.The obvious cal increase while cycling or the "skinny" guy who can't seem to gain.Google catabolic.You're embarrassing yourself and giving out misguided info.....Let me guess.You stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night? 8,000+ post an you DON'T understand the human body why/when it becomes catabolic?Anyone who is serious about weight training is taught/learned from the very early stages what catabolism is.NO need to continue to argue the obvious.
    Ummm... let's see.

    Rodja: B.S. Exercise and Sports Science (M.Ed. in Sports Science/Nutrition inprogress), NSCA-CPT, Pro MMA

    You: An obvious inability to understand hypotheticals, sarcasm, or proper grammar/punctuation.

    Yeah... I'm gonna go with Rodja on this one, and assume he's familiar with catabolism.

    Sshhhhhh
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberring View Post
    Ummm... let's see.

    Rodja: B.S. Exercise and Sports Science (M.Ed. in Sports Science/Nutrition inprogress), NSCA-CPT, Pro MMA

    You: An obvious inability to understand hypotheticals, sarcasm, or proper grammar/punctuation.

    Yeah... I'm gonna go with Rodja on this one, and assume he's familiar with catabolism.

    Sshhhhhh
    You DON'T deal in hypotheticals where catabolism/cortisol are concern slim.You deal with COMMON sense.Lift hard and then go balls to the wall for an extended amount of time w/cardio and wonder why you are losing valuable muscle mass,but do what you like by all means.We all know what happens when one "assumes" don't we? Doesn't take a fancy B.S. degree to figure that out.Cardio has it's place in every w/o regimen,but you can preach until alabama wins another national title,let me forewarn you...it may be a WHILE!But if common sense doesn't prevail,you will be left wondering why you CAN'T retain muscle mass,because you chose to ignore the obvious
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    Quote Originally Posted by H8duke View Post
    You DON'T deal in hypotheticals where catabolism/cortisol are concern slim.You deal with COMMON sense.Lift hard and then go balls to the wall for an extended amount of time w/cardio and wonder why you are losing valuable muscle mass,but do what you like by all means.We all know what happens when one "assumes" don't we? Doesn't take a fancy B.S. degree to figure that out.Cardio has it's place in every w/o regimen,but you can preach until alabama wins another national title,let me forewarn you...it may be a WHILE!But if common sense doesn't prevail,you will be left wondering why you CAN'T retain muscle mass,because you chose to ignore the obvious
    Grammar courses are COMMON... even at Chapel Hill.

    Today I did cardio for exactly 21 minutes after lifting.

    I'm catabolic.

    You're a genius.

    Good night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberring View Post
    Grammar courses are COMMON... even at Chapel Hill.

    Today I did cardio for exactly 21 minutes after lifting.

    I'm catabolic.

    You're a genius.

    Good night.
    Actually, you're an idiot!
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    Quote Originally Posted by H8duke View Post
    I couldn't get into Duke.
    I know, man... I know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBigPR View Post
    Drink Xtend during cardio
    Drink Xtend during your workouts too!

    ...Actually good rule of thumb; if you have it, drink it... or give it to meeeee

    I've found that when going heavy on the weights, 10 min cardio following does wonders for recovery.. flushes out the acid buildup.. And possibly helps me from cns burn the next day.

    I don't know if this is more helpfull then NOT doing cardio, as (in my mind - or I done learned me something here) the latic acid build up helps with signaling post workout..
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    Let me put it this way then:

    Substrate preference is based upon 1 thing: RER (if you don't know what that is, then you should just google it). The higher the RER, the higher % of substrate comes from glucose/glycogen. However, although the load may be the same (e.g. 6 MPH), the metabolic response may vary immensely.

    For example: I can reach steady-state aerobics at around 10 MPH, so 6 MPH is a "slow" speed for me. However, another person may reach steady-state aerobics at around 7 MPH. In this instance, my V02 at 6 MPH is much, much different than the other person. You cannot apply a universal speed/rate to anyone because V02 is different depending upon age, gender, mass, CV condition, etc.

    Or another way: a 200-lb person lifts for 60 minutes, which equates to ~1000kcal expended, and then performs steady-state cardio at ~85% of V02max for 30 minutes, which equates to ~500kcal expended. After calculating his BMR, GA, TEF, and PA, his TDEE is 4500 kcals, but his TDEI is 5000kcals (this assumes proper amount feedings and macro split). Given this scenario, the person is in a caloric surplus, which equates to an anabolic state.

    Diet is the most important determinant of everything when it comes to bodybuilding, powerlifting, or athletic performance.

    Also, still waiting for some of that evidence...
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    [QUOTE=Rodja;1921491]Let me put it this way then:

    Substrate preference is based upon 1 thing: RER (if you don't know what that is, then you should just google it). The higher the RER, the higher % of substrate comes from glucose/glycogen. However, although the load may be the same (e.g. 6 MPH), the metabolic response may vary immensely.

    For example: I can reach steady-state aerobics at around 10 MPH, so 6 MPH is a "slow" speed for me. However, another person may reach steady-state aerobics at around 7 MPH. In this instance, my V02 at 6 MPH is much, much different than the other person. You cannot apply a universal speed/rate to anyone because V02 is different depending upon age, gender, mass, CV condition, etc.

    Or another way: a 200-lb person lifts for 60 minutes, which equates to ~1000kcal expended, and then performs steady-state cardio at ~85% of V02max for 30 minutes, which equates to ~500kcal expended. After calculating his BMR, GA, TEF, and PA, his TDEE is 4500 kcals, but his TDEI is 5000kcals (this assumes proper amount feedings and macro split). Given this scenario, the person is in a caloric surplus, which equates to an anabolic state.

    Diet is the most important determinant of everything when it comes to bodybuilding, powerlifting, or athletic performance.

    Also, still waiting for some of that evidence...[/QU You can preach all that "look at me nerd-geek" science as you wish jr,but the TYPICAL individual DOESN'T lift/train with a 2000kcal surplus.Therefore, COMMON sense will once AGAIN dictate that if you lift/train over an hour and spend over 20 minutes doing cardio at a high rate of speed, you WILL LOSE/BURN muscle mass.There is your evidence.Common sense is not geek science.
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    For what it's worth, Rodja is a beast, with great numbers on his lifts. I think he knows what he's talkin' about!!
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    Really H8er, what's with the over 20 minutes nonsense? Is it "nerd-geek science" to propose that our bodies don't magically switch to burning muscle for fuel when the timer strikes 20:01? Or am I not using COMMON sense.

    By the way, I just tried talking like you type... and it sounded like Jimmy from South Park.
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    I Run after I lift. On the drive from the gym to the running trail I consume a Myoplex lite and have something like half a banana. Work for me.
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    I do too. Feels better that way instead of feeling all tight all over my muscles and driving home nearly killing people. I'd rather kill people with better reflexes.
    Banana sounds pretty sweet. No cramping with those? Seem pretty light for a snack which would keep you from getting nauseous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H8duke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Let me put it this way then:

    Substrate preference is based upon 1 thing: RER (if you don't know what that is, then you should just google it). The higher the RER, the higher % of substrate comes from glucose/glycogen. However, although the load may be the same (e.g. 6 MPH), the metabolic response may vary immensely.

    For example: I can reach steady-state aerobics at around 10 MPH, so 6 MPH is a "slow" speed for me. However, another person may reach steady-state aerobics at around 7 MPH. In this instance, my V02 at 6 MPH is much, much different than the other person. You cannot apply a universal speed/rate to anyone because V02 is different depending upon age, gender, mass, CV condition, etc.

    Or another way: a 200-lb person lifts for 60 minutes, which equates to ~1000kcal expended, and then performs steady-state cardio at ~85% of V02max for 30 minutes, which equates to ~500kcal expended. After calculating his BMR, GA, TEF, and PA, his TDEE is 4500 kcals, but his TDEI is 5000kcals (this assumes proper amount feedings and macro split). Given this scenario, the person is in a caloric surplus, which equates to an anabolic state.

    Diet is the most important determinant of everything when it comes to bodybuilding, powerlifting, or athletic performance.

    Also, still waiting for some of that evidence...
    You can preach all that "look at me nerd-geek" science as you wish jr,but the TYPICAL individual DOESN'T lift/train with a 2000kcal surplus.Therefore, COMMON sense will once AGAIN dictate that if you lift/train over an hour and spend over 20 minutes doing cardio at a high rate of speed, you WILL LOSE/BURN muscle mass.There is your evidence.Common sense is not geek science.
    Apparently, you missed my entire point about how speed is a relative number. I guess FLEX needs to be amended so you don't sound so ignorant and dogmatic.

    Also, I just posted all of the science needed to completely disprove your argument and all you did was throw out your opinion on the topic instead. Most lifters/athletes have a significant amount of glcyogen stored within their liver, myocytes, etc, in addition to having higher amount of IMTG. Unless you are training on an empty stomach (already a bad idea), your body will be fueled to handle the loads from your training session. Outside of caloric deprivation and poor nutrition, the 2 most likely sources of substrate will be your IMTG ("the athletes paradox") followed by glucose, then glycogen. If you have somehow managed to burn all of those reserves, then your nutrition is inadequate.

    But, I guess geek-science is completely wrong and you are a deity when it comes to S&C.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessep76 View Post
    I do too. Feels better that way instead of feeling all tight all over my muscles and driving home nearly killing people. I'd rather kill people with better reflexes.
    Banana sounds pretty sweet. No cramping with those? Seem pretty light for a snack which would keep you from getting nauseous.
    Another good idea is to eat red potatoes for breakfast. They're alkalinic, moderate-GI, decent fiber source, and full of potassium.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Another good idea is to eat red potatoes for breakfast. They're alkalinic, moderate-GI, decent fiber source, and full of potassium.
    good stuff haha thats the only thing i understood from all your posts rodja.. but im pretty sure the other stuff u said was beneficial too
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Apparently, you missed my entire point about how speed is a relative number. I guess FLEX needs to be amended so you don't sound so ignorant and dogmatic.

    Also, I just posted all of the science needed to completely disprove your argument and all you did was throw out your opinion on the topic instead. Most lifters/athletes have a significant amount of glcyogen stored within their liver, myocytes, etc, in addition to having higher amount of IMTG. Unless you are training on an empty stomach (already a bad idea), your body will be fueled to handle the loads from your training session. Outside of caloric deprivation and poor nutrition, the 2 most likely sources of substrate will be your IMTG ("the athletes paradox") followed by glucose, then glycogen. If you have somehow managed to burn all of those reserves, then your nutrition is inadequate.

    But, I guess geek-science is completely wrong and you are a deity when it comes to S&C.
    Still NOT impressed with your "look at me" copy&paste mentality.Also training on an empty stomach is a GREAT idea if one is trying to lose weight genius.One other thing.I'll gladly put my numbers up against yours any day kid! It be a bitch to get smoked by someone 20 yrs. older than you.You keep reading your "geek" books and trying to impress,I'll keep pumping iron smart guy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by H8duke View Post
    Still NOT impressed with your "look at me" copy&paste mentality.Also training on an empty stomach is a GREAT idea if one is trying to lose weight genius.One other thing.I'll gladly put my numbers up against yours any day kid! It be a bitch to get smoked by someone 20 yrs. older than you.You keep reading your "geek" books and trying to impress,I'll keep pumping iron smart guy!
    Copy and paste? You are one sad person to think that. All I did was recite basic undergrad exercise physiology while you've said nothing of relevance. Also, when I said training, you made the horrible assumption that I was speaking of just cardio-only. I was referring to the session that is in question, which is cardio after lifting.

    Then, again, you're so afraid of catabolism that you'd recite dogmatic, outdated information from the 1980's. Ironic when you think about it since you have so much time on your hands to actually read about this subject...
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    Bananas are great to run on. Potasium baby. Used to run half marathons and my race breakfast was a banana wrapped in a Mickey D;s Hotcake with honey.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Copy and paste? You are one sad person to think that. All I did was recite basic undergrad exercise physiology while you've said nothing of relevance. Also, when I said training, you made the horrible assumption that I was speaking of just cardio-only. I was referring to the session that is in question, which is cardio after lifting.

    Then, again, you're so afraid of catabolism that you'd recite dogmatic, outdated information from the 1980's. Ironic when you think about it since you have so much time on your hands to actually read about this subject...
    Did I hit a nerve smarty guy? Wanna discuss Einstein's theory of relativity next?Get over yourself.I'm NOT impressed!
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    Quote Originally Posted by H8duke View Post
    Did I hit a nerve smarty guy? Wanna discuss Einstein's theory of relativity next?Get over yourself.I'm NOT impressed!
    I just enjoy watching your matador act.
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