help with ketogenic and anabolic diet please

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I'm not so sure about using the vanadyl on the carb meal? I believe it reduces the release of insulin in some way, correct? I'm not sure this is ideal when trying to shuttle nutrients into muscles. Unless that isnt the goal of the carb up?
    Exactly. This, and other insulin mimitecs (variations of ALA, anabolic pump, etc.) can further induce ketosis and will lower the insulin response that we try so hard to set up during the high carb weekend. These are better used during the first two low carb days of the week to get you into ketosis faster.


  2. my saturated fat intake is around 55g.daily and yes im taking ALA and magnesium and i will buy vanady sulfate for the carbu up days . and my training is split is:

    monday: legs generally 4 exercises ( sets: 4)
    reps: 12, 12 , 10, 10 ,8)

    tuesday: chest 4 exercises ( sets: 4)
    ( reps: 15, 12 , 10 , 8)


    shoulders: (sets: 3)
    (reps: 15 , 15 , 15 , 12 ) light weight


    wednesday: back (sets:4) sometimes 5 depens on energy level
    (resp: range between 12 and 10 )


    thursday : biceps (sets: 4)
    (reps: range between 15 and 12 thats the only way i can get good pumps)


    triceps (sets:4)

    (reps: range between 12 and 10)


    friday hamstrings (sets: 4)
    (reps: between 15 and 12)

    i do 30 minutes of cardio after weight and sometimes firts thing in the morning


    i bought the ketostix's but i didnt show any dark color
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  3. You're going to use the Vanadyl during carb up days? If you read my last post you would see why that isn't ideal.

    Your training routine needs to go hand in hand with your glycogen stores if you want to get the most out of this diet.

    I would suggest that you keep your training to 3-4 days per week with the first 2-3 w/o days being tension workouts at around 80% of your 1RM. This early in the week your glycogen stores will be full enough to support heavier weight. The final workout day for the week should be a 2 hour full body depletion workout at about 50% of your 1RM. This can include supersets, strip sets, etc. Immediately following your depletion workout you should start your carb up. This type of routine while on a CKD has shown to very effectively replenish glycogen stores. Think of yourself on Friday as a dry sponge (glycogen depleted) ready to soak up water (or in this case, glycogen). Doing the high rep depletion workout will help you to soak up the most glycogen to prepare you for the next week.

  4. I started a thread in here a while back on the anabolic diet. Still on it and Ill tell you brother, its all trial and error. There is no set amount of time for your carb ups, only a rough limit of two days. Ive found I can't take a long carb up, so I go 12hrs to 24 hrs max and I also avoid the high gi carbs because I end up feeling like sh*t. I stick with the 60/30/10 template for as long as the carb up goes.

    BTW You do not need fad supplements on this diet! Save your money for food (or maybe roids.)

  5. Quote Originally Posted by IroNwIlL2006 View Post
    I started a thread in here a while back on the anabolic diet. Still on it and Ill tell you brother, its all trial and error. There is no set amount of time for your carb ups, only a rough limit of two days. Ive found I can't take a long carb up, so I go 12hrs to 24 hrs max and I also avoid the high gi carbs because I end up feeling like sh*t. I stick with the 60/30/10 template for as long as the carb up goes.

    BTW You do not need fad supplements on this diet! Save your money for food (or maybe roids.)
    I agree here. Consensus by vets of the diet seems to be that no matter how long the carb up lasts you'll find that while you cut keeping your fat macros at 10% will yeild the best results. 60/30/10 is also what I use.
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  6. thats the part i dont understand (tension workouts) what exactly its that? what i understand with that its better to do around two sets per bodypart and reps range between 8-10?
    except for the depletion workout.....and about the vanadyl sulfate your're right its not a good idea for carb up days
    but its ok to do cardio (slow mode for 30 minutes?)

  7. I would personally do more than 2 sets per body part during the tension workout for major muscle groups. Just keep your rep range between 6-8 during these workouts.
    If you want to do cardio on this diet then the decision is up to you.

  8. okay im on my day 5 of the AD im trying to keep the fat intake high or at least within my weight.....mostly my fat intake comes from (EVOO, cheeses, eggs , ground meats) im not comsuming to much red meat because of the time it takes to cook the meat and im out of my house almost the all day so i take a few tuna cans for lunch but my dinner i try to eat more fat like eggs with cheese and EVOO....til now my energy levels have been up and down good days bad days but i hope the next week will be better...... i been having a little headache.

    well but i have a problem before i started this diet my diet was high in protein and low in fat and carbs because im an endo and carbs dont go with me....well the thing is that before this diet i had my six pack and after 5 days on the AD i started to see that they begin to disappear but its not terrible i know they can come again easy and i started to see less cuts on my body should i worry? or its to much fat what im taking? i reed that this diet it supposed to be high in fat and thats what im doing.... i just dont wanna quit from this diet because it seems to work so if anyone could help me on this one ill appreciate it thanks

  9. The AD is all about trial and error. I had a nice set of abs going into the diet as well but I gained an initial 5 lbs of fat when i first started, lol. I almost lost my patience and quit as well once my abs were no longer visible. All I can tell you is that it may take a little bit of time and patience for your body to adjust and to get your calories/macros tuned in. I would give it 1-2 months for this to occur and to be running smoothly on the diet. So, if your goal is to keep your abs for the rest of the summer then it may not be the best idea to start a new diet right now. Just my 2 cents.

  10. no i really dont mind right now if i lose a bit my abs since i dont have time to go to the beach because of my studies but i was wondering if this is normal on some persons.....plus if i were eating carbs as im eating fat i can assure i were a skinny fat person lol..... so this diet it dosent seen to be too bad for me maybe its just matter of time like you said....ill try for for a month or two months to see what happens......

  11. Good call. It is normal to see a little weight fluctuation as your body becomes adjusted to this diet. How many calories are you currently eating on low carb days?

  12. im taking between 2300 and 2520 calories

    252 g. protein (1008 calories)
    167 g. fat ( 1512 calories) my saturated fat intake is between 57 grams each day

    its bad if someday i go over my calories ?

  13. No that is a good place for you to start, IMO. If you find after a month you aren't seeing results I would then slowly lower the cals a bit.

    I find a better synergy when I keep my macros at ~70% fat and ~30% protein rather than the 60% fat/40% protein that you have listed. This is by no means set in stone, but eventually you should try altering your macros a bit and see how it works for you.

  14. ok ill try that to see what happens..... for example today i went over 624 calories and im still hungry and i just ate my dinner i dont know if keep eating or what its that bad?

  15. No, that is ok. You don't want to starve yourself during the induction phase. Eat as much as you need too.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    No that is a good place for you to start, IMO. If you find after a month you aren't seeing results I would then slowly lower the cals a bit.

    I find a better synergy when I keep my macros at ~70% fat and ~30% protein rather than the 60% fat/40% protein that you have listed. This is by no means set in stone, but eventually you should try altering your macros a bit and see how it works for you.


    Consider this, as you enter strive for ketosis during the low carbs phase of the diet, an abundance of protein can be counter productive as protein is glucogenic. The recommendation of 70% fat, 30% protein is solid. Also, a lot of higher fat (hamburger, cheese etc.) naturally reflect those ratios, making meal creation much easier!

  17. You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to spiderduncan again.

  18. yes i reed about the protein that can be counter productive....
    ill do that go 70%f---- 30% pro.

    so after the induction phase that is 12 days i go for the depletion workout my post workout meal should be simple carbs right in liquid form?

    what about dinner that day should be simple carbs or complex?

    and breakfast the following day assuming im doing a 24 hours carb up only

    im sorry im asking too much but im just wanna do things right

    thanks

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Rugger1 View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to spiderduncan again.
    Thanks Rugger1!

  20. See bold comments:

    Quote Originally Posted by cessna View Post
    yes i reed about the protein that can be counter productive....
    ill do that go 70%f---- 30% pro.

    so after the induction phase that is 12 days i go for the depletion workout my post workout meal should be simple carbs right in liquid form? Actually, I believe you should take in some carbs prior to your fullbody tension workout, workout and consume a lot of carbs.

    what about dinner that day should be simple carbs or complex? The priority would/should be placed upon liquid meals (example: gatorade and whey). Honestly, I preferred to eat sugar cereals, raisin/cinnamon bread and pastas.

    and breakfast the following day assuming im doing a 24 hours carb up only As the carb up progresses, one should shift from simple to complex. Oatmeal (with some sugar) would be more than adequate.

    im sorry im asking too much but im just wanna do things right

    thanks
    I am certain that Botch can fill in the blanks. It has been some time since I utilized the CKD or TKD. Rest assured, it is an effective diet for maintaining hard earned muscle and maximizing fat loss.

  21. i work with this diets for the 2 last years,and i can say keto is the best way to have a ripped body,the essence of diet is you have the definition by the lipolisis way and not by thermogenesis -like low fat diets-.
    -after see your diet in my opinion i reduce more carbs,like beans or peanuts -they have fat but the have carbs too-.
    -i dont like to take too much whey shakes cause whey is too rapid,and your sistem digest it in few minutes,you must to take a protein much slow,reserve whey only for post-training
    -you must to take much protein,my experience is 60% of calories must come from protein and 40 of fat,and you never take less than 4 gr of protein for kg.
    -i like to take coffee before training,caffeine increases glucagon -a very lipolitic hormone secreted by the prancreas-,eca is a very good option too
    -you must to take a lot of salt and water,keto is a very drying agent and you must to rehidrate all the day.
    -if you do it 2 load days the first one you must to take high glycemic carbs,like rice cakes,wheat flour,vitargo,......and you never take fiber carbs this day,cause they reduces the load velocity,in the second day -i like to do only 1- you must to take low carbs,like oats,brown rice......if you want the first day you can take insulin to increases your load,i use 3 litle dosages of humalog....
    -after this 2 days you arent in keto and you must to induces it,maybe only in 3 of 4 days you back in keto,dont worry

  22. -i like to take coffee before training,caffeine increases glucagon -a very lipolitic hormone secreted by the prancreas-,eca is a very good option too
    I want to clarify a little bit with this point. You will not see better results from adding caffeine on this diet except for maybe an energy boost (but I think this actually may be what you're getting at). ECA you'll see some immediate (and possibly fleeting) results but at what cost? Your endocrine and neurological systems are working in tandem when you are on this diet. Each one can have an influence on the other. Now, while on a CKD, your neurotransmitters are in ample supply and if you are altering this with stimulants it can carry over to an alteration of hormones. The beauty of the CKD is that your hormones are working together in harmony (testosterone, insulin, growth hormone) and when you introduce stimulants you can really screw things up.
    Now, I'm not talking about a cup of coffee or two per day because we all have our vices and the energy boost may do you some good. But any kind of excessive stimulant use would not be advised on this diet. Now, I don't think that you are advising any kind of excessive stimulant use, but I just wanted to write this as clarification for those who are new to the diet.

    -you must to take a lot of salt and water,keto is a very drying agent and you must to rehidrate all the day.
    -if you do it 2 load days the first one you must to take high glycemic carbs,like rice cakes,wheat flour,vitargo,......and you never take fiber carbs this day,cause they reduces the load velocity,in the second day -i like to do only 1- you must to take low carbs,like oats,brown rice......if you want the first day you can take insulin to increases your load,i use 3 litle dosages of humalog....
    -after this 2 days you arent in keto and you must to induces it,maybe only in 3 of 4 days you back in keto,dont worry
    Very good points! I take in 2-5g of sodium per day on low carb days. I also like your suggestions for types of carbs eaten at certain times during the carb up.
    I agree that if you aren't in keto you should induce it. I like to take 150mg NA-RALA 2x on Monday and once on Tuesday morning to ensure a nice drop in blood sugar.
    I've never heard of insulin use during a CKD so that is a new one to me!

  23. [QUOTE=Botch;1481213]I want to clarify a little bit with this point. You will not see better results from adding caffeine on this diet except for maybe an energy boost (but I think this actually may be what you're getting at). ECA you'll see some immediate (and possibly fleeting) results but at what cost? Your endocrine and neurological systems are working in tandem when you are on this diet. Each one can have an influence on the other. Now, while on a CKD, your neurotransmitters are in ample supply and if you are altering this with stimulants it can carry over to an alteration of hormones. The beauty of the CKD is that your hormones are working together in harmony (testosterone, insulin, growth hormone) and when you introduce stimulants you can really screw things up.
    Now, I'm not talking about a cup of coffee or two per day because we all have our vices and the energy boost may do you some good. But any kind of excessive stimulant use would not be advised on this diet. Now, I don't think that you are advising any kind of excessive stimulant use, but I just wanted to write this as clarification for those who are new to the diet.



    wow really good explanation Botch thanks for that one i didnt know about that....yes maybe i like to have a cup of coffee on the morning but im not a big coffee addict but thanks for the advise.....i have a doubt on my rest days my calories should stay the same or should i reduced the intake? and about the sodium what happen if im just getting the sodium that already comes in the food like cheeses etc.....i really dont like to use salt on my food

  24. i have a doubt on my rest days my calories should stay the same or should i reduced the intake? and about the sodium what happen if im just getting the sodium that already comes in the food like cheeses etc.....i really dont like to use salt on my food
    Good question. Ideally on this diet you would be calculating your daily intake of calories by calculating your daily caloric output. Since calories in = calories out this would be the best way to monitor progress and ensure steady results. Now, I never went as far as to do this and still saw great results. But to answer your question, yes, you should reduce calories a little bit on rest days as you will be expending less calories.
    Optimally you should be taking in extra electrolytes on top of the sodium you get from foods. This diet is a diuretic and it will really help you to stay hydrated in the long run by taking in 2-5g of sodium per day. I usually just drop a couple grams in a tall glass of water and chug it.

  25. Botch of course i never induce a massive dosage of stimulants,i know this products altered all the systems,simply i get another option apart a cup of coffee.
    the optional tke insulin is to promove the cab loading,cause,our pancreas needs segegrate insulin to assimilate a high carb loading -you cant segegrate ketones and insulins at the same time--
    in otherwise,Duchaine adbogates for insulin little dosages on sunday afternoon to induces keto after the carb loading.
    about the insulin i dont recomend use cause, i prove it,and an excesive carb loading can produces a strong headhache when you are in keto.
    thanks for yours comments Bocth i am here to learn
    -sorry for my english-

  26. Botch.....you motor boating son of a b!tch.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  27. ok but if i reduce the calories my intake of calories should come mostly still from fat right?

  28. Quote Originally Posted by gambino View Post
    Botch of course i never induce a massive dosage of stimulants,i know this products altered all the systems,simply i get another option apart a cup of coffee.
    the optional tke insulin is to promove the cab loading,cause,our pancreas needs segegrate insulin to assimilate a high carb loading -you cant segegrate ketones and insulins at the same time--
    in otherwise,Duchaine adbogates for insulin little dosages on sunday afternoon to induces keto after the carb loading.
    about the insulin i dont recomend use cause, i prove it,and an excesive carb loading can produces a strong headhache when you are in keto.
    thanks for yours comments Bocth i am here to learn
    -sorry for my english-
    Thanks for your comments Gambino I am here to learn as well! I had never heard about Duchaines recommendation of insulin so that is interesting and new to me.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Botch.....you motor boating son of a b!tch.
    Lol, what can I say...CKD is my forte. Hey that rhymed!!

  30. Quote Originally Posted by cessna View Post
    ok but if i reduce the calories my intake of calories should come mostly still from fat right?
    Yes, you should reduce your overall caloric intake but keep your macros the same.
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