help with ketogenic and anabolic diet please

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    Good call. It is normal to see a little weight fluctuation as your body becomes adjusted to this diet. How many calories are you currently eating on low carb days?

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    im taking between 2300 and 2520 calories

    252 g. protein (1008 calories)
    167 g. fat ( 1512 calories) my saturated fat intake is between 57 grams each day

    its bad if someday i go over my calories ?
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    No that is a good place for you to start, IMO. If you find after a month you aren't seeing results I would then slowly lower the cals a bit.

    I find a better synergy when I keep my macros at ~70% fat and ~30% protein rather than the 60% fat/40% protein that you have listed. This is by no means set in stone, but eventually you should try altering your macros a bit and see how it works for you.
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    ok ill try that to see what happens..... for example today i went over 624 calories and im still hungry and i just ate my dinner i dont know if keep eating or what its that bad?
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    No, that is ok. You don't want to starve yourself during the induction phase. Eat as much as you need too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    No that is a good place for you to start, IMO. If you find after a month you aren't seeing results I would then slowly lower the cals a bit.

    I find a better synergy when I keep my macros at ~70% fat and ~30% protein rather than the 60% fat/40% protein that you have listed. This is by no means set in stone, but eventually you should try altering your macros a bit and see how it works for you.


    Consider this, as you enter strive for ketosis during the low carbs phase of the diet, an abundance of protein can be counter productive as protein is glucogenic. The recommendation of 70% fat, 30% protein is solid. Also, a lot of higher fat (hamburger, cheese etc.) naturally reflect those ratios, making meal creation much easier!
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    yes i reed about the protein that can be counter productive....
    ill do that go 70%f---- 30% pro.

    so after the induction phase that is 12 days i go for the depletion workout my post workout meal should be simple carbs right in liquid form?

    what about dinner that day should be simple carbs or complex?

    and breakfast the following day assuming im doing a 24 hours carb up only

    im sorry im asking too much but im just wanna do things right

    thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger1 View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to spiderduncan again.
    Thanks Rugger1!
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    See bold comments:

    Quote Originally Posted by cessna View Post
    yes i reed about the protein that can be counter productive....
    ill do that go 70%f---- 30% pro.

    so after the induction phase that is 12 days i go for the depletion workout my post workout meal should be simple carbs right in liquid form? Actually, I believe you should take in some carbs prior to your fullbody tension workout, workout and consume a lot of carbs.

    what about dinner that day should be simple carbs or complex? The priority would/should be placed upon liquid meals (example: gatorade and whey). Honestly, I preferred to eat sugar cereals, raisin/cinnamon bread and pastas.

    and breakfast the following day assuming im doing a 24 hours carb up only As the carb up progresses, one should shift from simple to complex. Oatmeal (with some sugar) would be more than adequate.

    im sorry im asking too much but im just wanna do things right

    thanks
    I am certain that Botch can fill in the blanks. It has been some time since I utilized the CKD or TKD. Rest assured, it is an effective diet for maintaining hard earned muscle and maximizing fat loss.
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    i work with this diets for the 2 last years,and i can say keto is the best way to have a ripped body,the essence of diet is you have the definition by the lipolisis way and not by thermogenesis -like low fat diets-.
    -after see your diet in my opinion i reduce more carbs,like beans or peanuts -they have fat but the have carbs too-.
    -i dont like to take too much whey shakes cause whey is too rapid,and your sistem digest it in few minutes,you must to take a protein much slow,reserve whey only for post-training
    -you must to take much protein,my experience is 60% of calories must come from protein and 40 of fat,and you never take less than 4 gr of protein for kg.
    -i like to take coffee before training,caffeine increases glucagon -a very lipolitic hormone secreted by the prancreas-,eca is a very good option too
    -you must to take a lot of salt and water,keto is a very drying agent and you must to rehidrate all the day.
    -if you do it 2 load days the first one you must to take high glycemic carbs,like rice cakes,wheat flour,vitargo,......and you never take fiber carbs this day,cause they reduces the load velocity,in the second day -i like to do only 1- you must to take low carbs,like oats,brown rice......if you want the first day you can take insulin to increases your load,i use 3 litle dosages of humalog....
    -after this 2 days you arent in keto and you must to induces it,maybe only in 3 of 4 days you back in keto,dont worry
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    -i like to take coffee before training,caffeine increases glucagon -a very lipolitic hormone secreted by the prancreas-,eca is a very good option too
    I want to clarify a little bit with this point. You will not see better results from adding caffeine on this diet except for maybe an energy boost (but I think this actually may be what you're getting at). ECA you'll see some immediate (and possibly fleeting) results but at what cost? Your endocrine and neurological systems are working in tandem when you are on this diet. Each one can have an influence on the other. Now, while on a CKD, your neurotransmitters are in ample supply and if you are altering this with stimulants it can carry over to an alteration of hormones. The beauty of the CKD is that your hormones are working together in harmony (testosterone, insulin, growth hormone) and when you introduce stimulants you can really screw things up.
    Now, I'm not talking about a cup of coffee or two per day because we all have our vices and the energy boost may do you some good. But any kind of excessive stimulant use would not be advised on this diet. Now, I don't think that you are advising any kind of excessive stimulant use, but I just wanted to write this as clarification for those who are new to the diet.

    -you must to take a lot of salt and water,keto is a very drying agent and you must to rehidrate all the day.
    -if you do it 2 load days the first one you must to take high glycemic carbs,like rice cakes,wheat flour,vitargo,......and you never take fiber carbs this day,cause they reduces the load velocity,in the second day -i like to do only 1- you must to take low carbs,like oats,brown rice......if you want the first day you can take insulin to increases your load,i use 3 litle dosages of humalog....
    -after this 2 days you arent in keto and you must to induces it,maybe only in 3 of 4 days you back in keto,dont worry
    Very good points! I take in 2-5g of sodium per day on low carb days. I also like your suggestions for types of carbs eaten at certain times during the carb up.
    I agree that if you aren't in keto you should induce it. I like to take 150mg NA-RALA 2x on Monday and once on Tuesday morning to ensure a nice drop in blood sugar.
    I've never heard of insulin use during a CKD so that is a new one to me!
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    [QUOTE=Botch;1481213]I want to clarify a little bit with this point. You will not see better results from adding caffeine on this diet except for maybe an energy boost (but I think this actually may be what you're getting at). ECA you'll see some immediate (and possibly fleeting) results but at what cost? Your endocrine and neurological systems are working in tandem when you are on this diet. Each one can have an influence on the other. Now, while on a CKD, your neurotransmitters are in ample supply and if you are altering this with stimulants it can carry over to an alteration of hormones. The beauty of the CKD is that your hormones are working together in harmony (testosterone, insulin, growth hormone) and when you introduce stimulants you can really screw things up.
    Now, I'm not talking about a cup of coffee or two per day because we all have our vices and the energy boost may do you some good. But any kind of excessive stimulant use would not be advised on this diet. Now, I don't think that you are advising any kind of excessive stimulant use, but I just wanted to write this as clarification for those who are new to the diet.



    wow really good explanation Botch thanks for that one i didnt know about that....yes maybe i like to have a cup of coffee on the morning but im not a big coffee addict but thanks for the advise.....i have a doubt on my rest days my calories should stay the same or should i reduced the intake? and about the sodium what happen if im just getting the sodium that already comes in the food like cheeses etc.....i really dont like to use salt on my food
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    i have a doubt on my rest days my calories should stay the same or should i reduced the intake? and about the sodium what happen if im just getting the sodium that already comes in the food like cheeses etc.....i really dont like to use salt on my food
    Good question. Ideally on this diet you would be calculating your daily intake of calories by calculating your daily caloric output. Since calories in = calories out this would be the best way to monitor progress and ensure steady results. Now, I never went as far as to do this and still saw great results. But to answer your question, yes, you should reduce calories a little bit on rest days as you will be expending less calories.
    Optimally you should be taking in extra electrolytes on top of the sodium you get from foods. This diet is a diuretic and it will really help you to stay hydrated in the long run by taking in 2-5g of sodium per day. I usually just drop a couple grams in a tall glass of water and chug it.
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    Botch of course i never induce a massive dosage of stimulants,i know this products altered all the systems,simply i get another option apart a cup of coffee.
    the optional tke insulin is to promove the cab loading,cause,our pancreas needs segegrate insulin to assimilate a high carb loading -you cant segegrate ketones and insulins at the same time--
    in otherwise,Duchaine adbogates for insulin little dosages on sunday afternoon to induces keto after the carb loading.
    about the insulin i dont recomend use cause, i prove it,and an excesive carb loading can produces a strong headhache when you are in keto.
    thanks for yours comments Bocth i am here to learn
    -sorry for my english-
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    Botch.....you motor boating son of a b!tch.
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    ok but if i reduce the calories my intake of calories should come mostly still from fat right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gambino View Post
    Botch of course i never induce a massive dosage of stimulants,i know this products altered all the systems,simply i get another option apart a cup of coffee.
    the optional tke insulin is to promove the cab loading,cause,our pancreas needs segegrate insulin to assimilate a high carb loading -you cant segegrate ketones and insulins at the same time--
    in otherwise,Duchaine adbogates for insulin little dosages on sunday afternoon to induces keto after the carb loading.
    about the insulin i dont recomend use cause, i prove it,and an excesive carb loading can produces a strong headhache when you are in keto.
    thanks for yours comments Bocth i am here to learn
    -sorry for my english-
    Thanks for your comments Gambino I am here to learn as well! I had never heard about Duchaines recommendation of insulin so that is interesting and new to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Botch.....you motor boating son of a b!tch.
    Lol, what can I say...CKD is my forte. Hey that rhymed!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by cessna View Post
    ok but if i reduce the calories my intake of calories should come mostly still from fat right?
    Yes, you should reduce your overall caloric intake but keep your macros the same.
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    Duchaine recomends little insulin touchs after the last carbs meal -at 17 or 18 on sundays- he recomends 2 ui of humulin-r in the next 2 hours to down the glucose levels in blood,he recomends two or three times this -prior bed tiem- to get up on monday in keto,a very dangerours protocol to me....
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    WTF!!!! No way would I ever do that. That's crazy I enjoy not being in a coma a little too much to even think about that.
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    hey thanks guys.....

    this is my eight day on the AD and i did the test on the KETOSTRIPS and it came negative why could be that am i doing something wrong? this is my new diet


    BREAKFAST:

    5 whole eggs (omega 3)
    1 tbsp EVOO
    2 SLICES PROVOLONE CHEESE
    1 TBSP MAYONNAISE (SOMETIMES)
    2 CAPS FISH OIL

    SNACK:

    1 CAN TUNA (NO SALT ADDED)
    2 TBSP EVOO
    1 TBSP (MAYONNAISE)



    LUNCH:

    1 CAN TUNA (NO SALT ADDED)
    2 TBSP EVOO
    3 CUPS SPINACH
    3 SLICES PROVOLONE CHEESE
    1 CAP. FISH OIL

    BEFORE WORKOUT:

    1 SCOOP WHEY PROTEIN
    2 TBSP HEAVY WHIPPING CREAM (SOMETIMES)


    POST WORKOUT:

    2 SCOOPS WHEY PROTEIN


    DINNER:

    8 OUNCES TOP ROUND STEAK
    1 TBSP EVOO
    3 SLICES PROVOLE CHEESE OR SOME OTHER CHEESE (NO CARBS)
    1 CUP BROCCOLI
    2 CAPS FISH OIL


    BEFORE BED

    1 SCOOP WHEY PROTEIN + 1 TBSP EVOO

    OR

    1/2 CUP COTTAGE CHEESE + 1 TBSP NATTY PB



    well this is my diet any suggestions or advice is welcome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    WTF!!!! No way would I ever do that. That's crazy I enjoy not being in a coma a little too much to even think about that.
    LOL agreed. This is way too extreme for me!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by cessna View Post
    hey thanks guys.....

    this is my eight day on the AD and i did the test on the KETOSTRIPS and it came negative why could be that am i doing something wrong? this is my new diet


    BREAKFAST:

    5 whole eggs (omega 3)
    1 tbsp EVOO
    2 SLICES PROVOLONE CHEESE
    1 TBSP MAYONNAISE (SOMETIMES)
    2 CAPS FISH OIL

    SNACK:

    1 CAN TUNA (NO SALT ADDED)
    2 TBSP EVOO
    1 TBSP (MAYONNAISE)



    LUNCH:

    1 CAN TUNA (NO SALT ADDED)
    2 TBSP EVOO
    3 CUPS SPINACH
    3 SLICES PROVOLONE CHEESE
    1 CAP. FISH OIL

    BEFORE WORKOUT:

    1 SCOOP WHEY PROTEIN
    2 TBSP HEAVY WHIPPING CREAM (SOMETIMES)


    POST WORKOUT:

    2 SCOOPS WHEY PROTEIN


    DINNER:

    8 OUNCES TOP ROUND STEAK
    1 TBSP EVOO
    3 SLICES PROVOLE CHEESE OR SOME OTHER CHEESE (NO CARBS)
    1 CUP BROCCOLI
    2 CAPS FISH OIL


    BEFORE BED

    1 SCOOP WHEY PROTEIN + 1 TBSP EVOO

    OR

    1/2 CUP COTTAGE CHEESE + 1 TBSP NATTY PB



    well this is my diet any suggestions or advice is welcome
    As far as your diet goes it looks pretty good. I would opt for 1g of EPA/DHA per day on this diet which usually equates to ~10 caps of fish oil for most brands. So you might want to up the fish oil dose a little bit.

    As far as the KETOSTRIPS go they definately range in quality and can be wildly inaccurate. For instance, a couple things that effect the accuracy of ketostrips are your hydration level and hormone fluctuations. You are better off with a glucometer if you use anything at all. Otherwise, I just wouldn't worry about pissing on some ketostrips. And I wouldn't be too concerned if you aren't in ketosis otherwise as you are only on day 8 of the diet. Sometimes it takes people as much as 6 weeks on the diet before they reach ketosis while others never truely do.
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    thank you Botch for youre help....

    yes i reed somewhere i dont remember where that when you
    that if you been drinking too much water the test can be negative......

    also i add bacon too my diet but i reed that i have to avoid meat cure with sodium nitrite do you know something about these?
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    Bacon is okay in moderation, like many things LOL. There is a point where I start to feel pretty crappy and retain water if I eat too much bacon. As long as you're not eating tons of the stuff you will be just fine.
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    yes im keeping the bacon on the minimum....


    hey i just got my bf% check today by a professional these are the number

    140lbs
    bf 9%
    LBM 127.4
    FAT WEIGHT 12.6


    THIS SATURDAY IS MY CARB UP DAY I REED THAT IT SHOULD BE 8-10 GRAMS CARBS per kilogram of lean body mass DOES THIS LOOKS OK TO YOU ASSUMING IM TAKING 10 GRAMS OF CARBS PER LBM 1274 CALORIES FROM CARBS OR 573.3 GRAMS? AND WHAT ABOUT THE PROTEIN AND FAT IM CONFUSED ON THAT ONE
  

  
 

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