change in the law
- 03-30-2006, 08:19 AM
change in the law
From SteroidLaw.com as of today, not good news.
03.27.06 - U.S. Anabolic Steroid Punishments Increased!
The U.S. Sentencing Commission has published notice of temporary "emergency" (i.e., immediate) amendments to the federal anabolic steroid sentencing guidelines. Henceforth, injectable and oral steroids will be quantified for punishment in a 1:1 ratio to other Schedule III drugs, resulting in a twenty-fold measurement increase for injectable steroid units and a fifty-fold increase for oral steroid units. Steroids in other forms ("e.g., patch, topical cream, aerosol") will be reasonably estimated based on a consideration of 25mg as one unit. Additionally, sentencing enhancements will apply in cases involving distribution to "athletes" or where coaches use their positions to influence athletes to use steroids, as well as in cases involving "masking agents." While likely to impact dealers more than personal users, the new 1:1 ratio nonetheless ignores fundamental differences between steroid usage and volume patterns as compared to other Schedule III drugs. Other potential problems with the amendments include the lack of any reference to potency in oral or injectable steroids, potentially leading to black market adaptations to circumvent the amendment (e.g., the creation of high potency "mega-pills") as well as the lack of any knowledge requirement involving distribution (e.g., via the Internet) to unidentifiable customers who may turn out to be athletes. It is expected that the revisions will be made permanent by Congress in November. [For further information, see the written testimony of Rick Collins to the Sentencing Commission, the transcript of his appearance before the Commisssion, the Report of the USSC Steroids Working Group, and the Commission's Notice of Amendment to the guidelines.]
Actual Report: http://www.ussc.gov/FEDREG/March06FedReg.pdf
Another Report this month: http://www.ussc.gov/USSCsteroidsreport-0306.pdf
- 03-30-2006, 08:43 AM
Yeah, I saw that.
I think that if a person were to be caught with their personal stash and prosecuted for possession with intent to distribute (a very likely scenario with this change), it would be unconstitutional to apply the presumption of intent without regard to the type and character of the substance. Namely, that a large quantity of steroids does not necessarily indicate the same intent that a large quantity of methamphetamine or MDMA might.
However, I personally would not want to be the test case.
On the bright side, at least it's not permanent yet.
- 03-30-2006, 11:46 AM
more bs attention. I noticed bonds is in the news again.
03-30-2006, 11:56 AM
bonds is the least of concerns now. if this gets passed, one 5mg tab of dbol will equate to 1 tab of ecstasy from a legality standpoint. now, picture getting busted with a 1000 tab bottle of pink thais. that's a couple cycles worth to one user, but that's a major distributor in ecstasy land.
03-30-2006, 11:59 AM
Yup (that was my point above). And several years of jail time to boot, most likely. I think you're going to see more and more charges of possession with intent to distribute, and much fewer simple possession charges, unless someone can mount a successful constitutional challenge.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
03-30-2006, 12:04 PM
semi-loophole already. it may force labs to make larger size tabs. 5mg dbol tabs become 50mg dbol tabs, etc. cuz to the legal system, one is one.
03-30-2006, 12:07 PM
Yes, but if we know it, congress knows it, and they will eventually counter that with counting each unit as a mg for solid drugs and a ml for liquid drugs, or some other means of equivalency. Or they might decide that, say, 5mg is the "standard" DBol, and so a 50mg tab counts as 10.
03-30-2006, 12:14 PM
This is so much freakin' crap. The average shmoe (and this most certainly includes journalists, sports talk hosts etc...) know nothing real regarding aas and the true "dangers" and circumstance in which they "may" be incurred. They just think our political engine is hard at work protecting them and the youth of America. As much as hate rushing through years of my life I can't wait for the next major state and the next Presidential election.
03-30-2006, 01:00 PM
So we're looking at longer mandatory minimum sentencing? Nice.
03-30-2006, 01:28 PM
03-30-2006, 01:44 PM
Well, technically no, what we're looking at is a new way to calculate how many "units" of a drug a person was in possession of, and that is used to determine sentence. So the minimum sentence for the different degrees of possession has not changed, just the method by which the degree is determined.Originally Posted by bioman
03-30-2006, 04:38 PM
Yeah - one big 5000mg notched break-away tablet. Kind'a like a chocolate bar.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
And as I understand this (the original report even goes into detail on this) if this is distributed to a non-athlete highschool kid and no masking agents are added there is no 2-level enhancement. Like saying if you sell ecstasy to grandpa you get less of a sentencing than if you sell it to a party man.
But the funniest thing is that the situation must have gotten so out of control since the original ASC Act of 2004, that we need an 'emergency amendment'... We clearly need to restore order
03-30-2006, 04:53 PM
There are two things happening here. One is the enhancement that you mention, having to do with who the steroid is sold to and whether or not there is a masking agent, and the other is the change in how units are figured.
The change in how units are figured is across the board for everyone, and is the change that is likely to have a much greater impact on the bodybuilding community.
03-30-2006, 07:54 PM
I'm in for a 50000 tab of anavar. Chew away at that puppy for a while.
But seriously, that is just downright stupid. This government is really making a huge deal out of this...it's scary to think about what it'll be like in 10-15 years.
03-30-2006, 09:35 PM
It IS scary. It's scary that theyre willing to sacrifice so many innocent victims and ruin their lives. People who's only other crimes are parking and speeding violations at worst. Hard working responsible adults who arent hurting anyone, in most cases not even themselves. It's dispicable, and the worst (and most mind blowing) part is that the people are nieve enough to buy into the rhetoric. Never demanding a shred of evidence. "Well if Lyle Alzado says steroids caused his T cell Lymphoma (or brain cancer to the lay person) then they must be bad, who cares what his doctor and hundreds of scientific research studies, and medical case studies say, we all know Lyle is the be all end all of medical diagnosis."
Or "Geraldo and McGruff the crime dog say only bad people use steroids, and surely they've met and evaluated the integrity of every steroid user, so lets crucify them all."
03-30-2006, 09:47 PM
That really sucks. Things are a lot more liberal here in Canada...
03-30-2006, 10:25 PM
im just happy that in 10 or 15 years, science will have shown (albeit very indirectly im assuming) all the benefits to testosterone etc. and ill be on HRT. Its the 20-30 years old then that will be truly f-ed.
Find a good open minded doctor boys. And keep your insurance up to date (another example of how the well off will be the only ones able to afford 'looking good')
03-30-2006, 10:35 PM
Anabolic Steroids - Use of steroids decreased significantly among 8th-graders, from 2.5 percent in 2003 to 1.9 percent in 2004 for lifetime use and from 1.4 percent in 2003 to 1.1 percent in 2004 for annual use. Among 10th-graders, lifetime use decreased significantly, from 3.0 percent in 2003 to 2.4 percent in 2004, continuing the decrease in use among 10th-graders seen in 2003. Steroid use among 12th-graders, however, remained stable at peak levels.
what i do not understand is why the government would launch this entire steroid abuse campaign for a drug that (according to the figures on this list) is second from the bottom of use percentage, right above heroin.
12th grade steroid use:
also, these statistics can be knocked down considerably, as its likely some high school students consider creatine, no2, zma, 6-oxo, tribulus, etc... to be some form of steroid
12th grade alcohol use:
i would have to say that steroid use she be the least of the government's problems, especially since the majority of users are not barry bonds or little jimmy from high school. TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE OTHER STATS ON THIS WEBSITE, decide for yourself what the priority should be.
if anyone can explain this to me, it would be greatly appreciated. my powers of mind are not nearly great enough to understand the stupidity im seeing
03-30-2006, 10:48 PM
You cant understand the stupidity because thats exactly what it is. You cant make sense of something that spits in the face of rational intelligence. Its Politicians and alarmists tricking the panic prone people into thinking there is a problem so the politician can appear to be doing something helpful, and AAS user's are enough of a minority that no matter how hard they screw us and no matter how unfair, unjustified, and un scientifically verifieable their persecution of us is......they know that our voice is to small to be heard, because our voice will be stifled by the roar of outrage by those who choose not to let themselves hear the real truth. Theyve made up their minds that journalists, politicians and know nothing crackpot alarmist's are the true steroid experts in the world, and they dont want the facts inflitrating their microcosm and confusing them with science and logic that might force them to think for themselves. They HATE IT when they have to think for themselves.
03-30-2006, 11:54 PM
At this point, my highest hope is Barry Bonds is forced to speak and once again tell the political machine that there are MUCH more important things to worry about. That, and shmoes eventually being so turned off by having this "non" issue rammed down their throats that they may finally see the light or at least become completely apathetic. And when they wake from their comas they realize that Iraq is now free to have their civil war, **** Chaney never met a dollar he couldn't pike, the Christian coalition is NOT a rational thinking group, Jr is a former party boy turned ultimate hypocrite, and the price of gas has gone up an f-in half dollar in about two months.
03-31-2006, 04:23 AM
This is getting ridiculous. Will it even be worth it to obtain any AAS anymore? It's getting to the point where it isn't.
03-31-2006, 11:20 AM
that is the point of all of thisOriginally Posted by Achilles13
03-31-2006, 11:43 AM
Originally Posted by jomi822
Yeah, but there are still people out there(myself included) who are still willing to take the risk. Probably just have to be more discrete about it now.
03-31-2006, 12:18 PM
That's what makes it so grotesquely ironic - because it will affect the wrong group altogether.Originally Posted by jomi822
The high-school kids will not care about the change in penalties (as one can see from the use of other illicit drugs ranking much higher in popularity) and athletes - the stars have their backs covered and the aspiring athletes will continue to 'try or die trying'.
So, the ones that this will likely stop will be the guys from age 20+ with relatively normal lives, i.e. family and job and have something to lose.
Ok - the main emphasis it seems is to crack down on dealers. But with the ignorance towards the subject displayed so openly, basically anybody possessing the steroids to go on a cycle could end up being classified as dealer as was pointed out earlier.
It's not the subject itself, or the questions of legality that bothers me, it's the obvious display of ignorance and stupidity. I yet have to see one report in the popular media that puts the subject straight. My wife watched the report on Gregg Valentino and hears the discussions on baseball on TV and now I get to feel like 'Bring the holy water, Daddy's T-levels are up again." (and they're not even chemically enhanced).
Nuff said - though I could easily go on...
03-31-2006, 01:00 PM
Well, **** the US and **** our government.... I'm pissed....
I'll see u bodybuilders that wanna continue our love and sport over in Europe or Canada, cuz i'll be ****in damned if i'm gonna let some little **** faced ***get like Bush ruin my healthy lifestyle....
03-31-2006, 02:25 PM
Canada is stricter with the laws, though I'm not sure about the penalties. I'm thinking there might be a reverse immigration of very large white men into Mexico. Maybe we can get their oil industry up and running.Originally Posted by freakboy
03-31-2006, 03:06 PM
I can't wait til Bush gets the hell out.
Euro gear rules, and its legal to juice in Europe....
Peace guys! i'm off to Germany lol! see ya's in ten years hahahaha
03-31-2006, 03:07 PM
The problem isn't Bush. This change is going to approved by Congress, not him.
The main problem is the media.
03-31-2006, 06:40 PM
Not to highjack, but the strangest thing about the Bonds case is the lack of media interest in the lack of proffessional athletic outcry.
If there were indeed Pro athletes that were not juiced to the gills, they would be all over the media crying about the unfairness of "enhanced" athletes. There has been exactly zero outcry. There can only be one explanation...widespread ("widespread" may not be an encompassing enough word) use among athletes. I know this is no surprise to members here, but is the media really thick enough to have not picked up on this nuance?
04-01-2006, 09:49 AM
This change is not to crack down on the dealer, but to make EVERYONE a dealer in the eyes of the law. Congress used baseball to create a platform for their grandstanding and have been riding that wave ever since. The media is responsible for a large part of this mess by keeping this crap in the limelight with their sensationalism and misinformation. It sickens me every time I hear about this new investigation into baseball that every scotch drinking, eightball snorting, chainsmoking sportswriter keeps saying is needed. In the 80's the nfl had a much greater drug problem than baseball ever had. They implemented a testing program and that was the end of story. Baseball needs to follow suit. It wasn't against the rules until recently, so it's a moot point, records or not. Why don't they go back and investigate who used corked bats, spitballs, or any of the other HUNDREDS of cheating methods used in baseball since the damn game was invented? Or better yet why don't we start testing sportswriters and congress for drugs, or at least check their trunks for dead teenage sheboy hookers and interns. Fing makes me SICK. They sit on their fatasses in capitol hill damn near raping every swinging**** in america with no consequence or repercussions, and they want to send me up the river for a couple of dbol tabs?! AAAAAAAHHHHH f it.
I'll make it easy for them. They can send me to gitmo for taking a massive dump on the whitehouse lawn. F U george and your little dogs too.
04-01-2006, 11:21 AM
Originally Posted by jarhead
04-01-2006, 02:43 PM
when it comes to aas in florida, centeral florida to boot, law enforcement does not focus on "finding" the dealers/users. the ones who get caught are the ones who are in the gym trying to be a bad ass and sell to people in the gym. when it comes to the federal government, such as DEA, they will never focus an investigation strickly on AAS, there has to be another drug invovled such as GHB, X or something else. even though the "guide lines" say that they pently is higher the courts would rather slap you on the wrist and let you go, why you ask because in the courts eyes, aas is harmful to you no one else, other harsher drugs are harmfull to many people. when it comes to local law enforcement they only want to focus on the more dangrous drugs, crack cocaine and such, don't get me wrong if a local finds it on you, which 9 times out of 10 they have no clue what it is, they can still arrest you on it. my point the feds are hyping the use of aas because of the publisity it is getting because of athletes using it. the main focus will always be the harsher drugs, not aas.
04-01-2006, 09:08 PM
True the MAIN focus will probably still be on rec drugs, but there WILL be a noticably GREATER attention paid to AAS crimes than in the past. Because they still have to make it look like they are taking the "epidemic" seriously. Allthough I agree that the attention paid will still pale in comparison to the attention paid to other drugs, the people that DO get caught up in the increased AAS attention may get examples made of them to prove that they mean bussiness. Unfortunately the only ones their willing to sacrifice and make examples of are people that have nothing to do with the real purpose behind the the legislation.
Check this out guys. Here is a hypothetical cutting cycle, that has most likely been used by many guys before. Lets say a 16 weeker.
One CC each of test prop, and tren ace ED. With a 6 week kick off of D-bol at 10x5mg tabs per day (50mg's), and 100 winny tabs and 20cc's of masteron spread out for the home stretch of the cutter. That equates to about 12 vial's (10cc's a piece) of prop and 12 vial's of tren ace. + 420 d bol tabs, 2 masteron vial's and 100 winny's. That works out to be 780 units by this new way of calculating it. With an ignorant prosecutor and judge, this could easily be construed as a distribution if the person got caught with it all at once. (and if the person wanted to get his bulk cycle and his cutter in one shot, than he'd really be up a creek if caught.)
So in reality, we'd be looking at a few year's in prison for personal use despite what the courts think constitutes personal use. (if an X dealer, or LSD, or crack dealer had 780 units, they wouldnt even consider listening to allegations of it NOT being for sale.) I keep hearing about child molestors getting out in 2 years and then molesting more kids when he gets out. So essentially our society believes its perfectly acceptable to molest as many children as you want as long as it doesnt help you build muscle. Talk about BASS-ACKWARDS.
04-02-2006, 09:32 PM
Its going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Think about it. Who are you going to vote for that's going to change things? Either way you go your right to choice is f*cked one way or another. Your right to own a gun, your right to your own body, your right to your own mind...no matter what party is in office someone's always got to have a piece of your individual freedom in the name of saving the children.
We're in the minority here - a good portion of Americans have no interest in bodybuilding and believe everything they see on TV. They're perfectly content lapping up whatever slop they're spoonfed by the media and government. They work their 9-5's, eat at McDonalds and watch sports on TV (which are being ruined by steroids, after all).
And these are the folks going to the polls, electing the people who can protect them and their children from these evil molecules that are destroying society. Its not corrupt politicians robbing them blind, squandering their tax dollars and bankrupting the country, slicing away more of the constitution with every passing year - its the steroids. Its the weed, the DRUGS that are the pernicious evil that's a threat to the American way.
Meanwhile, they'll happily pound down their lipitor, wellbuterin, lunesta, or whatever other laundry list of prescription meds they're on to keep them happy, healthy, and a productive part of the American workforce.
Its getting to be pretty ****ed up if you ask me...
04-03-2006, 10:28 PM
I loved this country. I can't wait to leave...
I think it brilliant we retard the brightest and strongest humans. Go USA!!!
Hey, the only theing our past proves is we'll nuke you to win. You don't have to be strong or smart to be capable of doing that. Let's continue to cut off our eyes, ears, and minds to the world. Soon we'll be identicle to the forces we look to police. So if we can't win by reason, let's just be the brute in the dark alley looking to jack another group of Americans. We are destined to dismantle ourselves. Our Forefathers would encourage us.
I'll be in tahiti...
My The 1 LOG: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/254164-my-one-log.html
04-04-2006, 01:02 AM
Looking at AAS like rec drugs is beyond moronic.
"Uh, oh, what do we have here? 100 winny tabs? this is enough to get a hundred druggies high on steroids! Open and shut case Johnson! We just prevented 100 murders from roid rage! Book em Dan-O!"
04-04-2006, 08:16 AM
Sadly, that's how most people view it.Looking at AAS like rec drugs is beyond moronic.
"Uh, oh, what do we have here? 100 winny tabs? this is enough to get a hundred druggies high on steroids! Open and shut case Johnson! We just prevented 100 murders from roid rage! Book em Dan-O!"
04-04-2006, 10:06 AM
Who's going to be the one (athlete, MD., poiltician, movie star etc..) with any level of media clout to set the clueless straight. So far, the only one has been Canseco and Bond's might somewhere down the road. However, I think it might take someone with a greater appeal. Perhaps a reporter for a non-right wing bound news outlet. I understand speaking the truth in this matter is not the hip thing to do and will take huge balls. Someone who decides to make a crusade to stop the hysteria.
04-04-2006, 10:14 AM
attempts have been made (brian gumble on HBO) but they're ignored. adolf hitler once said "the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it".
04-04-2006, 11:09 AM
- 5'7" 191 lbs.
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
- Rep Power
Originally Posted by SD1959
I vote for Arnold to speak up...you have former athlete,"movie star", and now politician all rolled into one. I'm surprised nobody has even brought him into the spot light regarding AAS or anything like that....
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