When Cop Use Steroids,

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http://abcnews.go.com/Health/US/story?id=775659&page=1

May 24, 2005 — Amid the furor over steroid use by superstar athletes like baseball's Jose Canseco and Jason Giambi, another story is quietly unfolding in small towns and big cities across America — cops on steroids.

From New York City to Norman, Okla., police departments are investigating a growing number of incidents involving uniformed police officers who are using steroids to build beefy, muscular physiques.


Police departments are concerned because it is illegal in the United States to possess steroids without a prescription. They are listed by the Drug Enforcement Agency as a Schedule III substance, like morphine, opium, barbiturates and other prescription drugs.

But there is an even greater problem: violent, aggressive behavior, a common side effect of steroids, can contribute to police brutality — even murder.

When Police Commit Murder

James Batsel IV was a police officer in Riverdale, a suburb of Atlanta. In 1993, he joined a group of police officers who, in addition to bulking up on steroids, burglarized stores and nightclubs in the Atlanta area.

During one of those burglaries, Batsel shot and killed a nightclub owner. In his defense, Batsel blamed the murder on the steroids he was using.

Batsel, now serving a life sentence for murder at Hays State Prison in Georgia, refused an interview request from ABCNews.com. But his father, James Batsel III, said, "The police force that he was on was rampant with it."

Maj. Greg Barney of the Riverdale Police Department declined to offer comment on the 12-year-old incident.

Batsel also described the effect steroids had on his son's disposition, causing him to fly into a violent rage for no reason. This side effect of steroids is known as "'roid rage."

"He had a temper you would not believe," Batsel's father said. "He had a dog that he just loved — and he took that dog out and shot it."

Nationwide Epidemic of Abuse

Batsel's use of steroids is not a rare case. In precinct houses and sheriff's departments nationwide, officers are being investigated, disciplined, discharged or arrested for possessing or using steroids:

Michael Tweedy, a former police officer in Petersburg, Va., was sentenced in April for repeatedly stomping a man in the head while he lay on the ground choking on his own blood. In court testimony, steroid use was cited as a contributing factor to his violent behavior.

Thomas Lahey, a third-generation police sergeant in Denver, was charged in 2003 with possession of steroids. In addition to steroids, his home also contained syringes, a steroid-use schedule and 15 guns. The case was eventually dismissed.

Matthew Campbell, a former police officer in Tampa, pleaded guilty to trading Ecstasy tablets — stolen from an impounded car — for steroids. The exchange took place in 2000 while Campbell and a fellow officer were in uniform and on duty.

Two police officers in Tampa are under investigation as customers of a man arrested for selling steroids. The case is still under review by the police department.

Four police officers in the New York City area lost their jobs after being investigated for possession of steroids and cocaine in 2002. Two of the officers pleaded guilty; the other two cases are still pending.

Eight sheriff's deputies in Broward County, Fla., are currently under investigation after their names appeared on the customer list of a local company charged with distributing steroids.

Robert Cissna, a police officer in Burlingame, Calif., pleaded no contest to possession of steroids in 2002. He has since been reinstated as a police officer.

The full extent of the problem remains unknown — most police officers and department spokespersons are reluctant to discuss any internal affairs involving police officers using steroids or other drugs.


Aggressive Behavior and Loaded Guns

There is a scientific explanation for the violent behavior exhibited by steroid abusers, says Linn Goldberg, a professor of medicine at Oregon Health & Science University and an expert on steroid abuse.

"Your dopamine receptors are changed," he said, referring to the chemical in the brain that transmit nerve signals. "They help guard against a lack of impulse control."

Steroid abusers lack the same level of control that non-users have. "They have uncontrolled aggressive feelings. Their judgment is impaired," Goldberg said.

The problem with steroids is that they make you feel you are invulnerable, so you become more aggressive and you're more likely to use aggression as well," he added.

Other side effects of steroid abuse include depression, mania, suicide risks, erratic mood swings, shrunken testicles, cancerous tumors, kidney failure, heart attacks, stroke and stunted growth.

But the fact that violent mood swings can occur among police officers who carry a gun concerns many, including Goldberg. "It's very scary to me," he said.

Fear Factor and the Police

Gene Sanders, a police psychologist in Spokane, Wash., has worked extensively with police officers who are steroid abusers. "If I were going to be conservative, I'd say that probably 5 percent of everyone who walks in my door either is using or has used steroids," he said.

"This is getting to be a major problem," Sanders said.

"As a police psychologist, I can understand why it happens — it's essentially a fear issue," said Sanders.

"And having been a sniper on a SWAT team, I can understand that level of fear," he said.

'When I Started to Use Anabolic Steroids'

It was fear that prompted rookie officer Chris Holden to begin using steroids.

Shortly after joining the police force in Norman, Okla., an Oklahoma highway patrolman was shot and killed. The slaying occurred during a fight in which the killer wrestled the patrolman's gun away from him.

"I wanted to do everything I could to prevent this from happening to me," Holden stated in a letter he published in a local newspaper. "At the end of March 2004 I was a police officer patrolling the streets solo, and that is when I started to use anabolic steroids."

An investigation into steroid abuse, led by the DEA, netted Holden, three other Norman police officers, and a state highway patrolman. All five lost their jobs following the investigation.

Holden failed to return several calls requesting an interview, and many of Holden's former colleagues have taken a dim view of his actions.

"One interesting effect of him writing that letter is he alienated the entire department when he wrote that letter," said Lt. Tom Easley, spokesman for the Norman Police Dept.

"Most of these guys and women who are out there on the force took his letter as evidence of cowardice and some kind of inadequacy in himself," Easley said.

"When you have 130 authorized police officers and you lose four of them, it hurts from a manpower standpoint and it hurts from a morale standpoint," said Easley.

But like many other police spokespeople around the country, Easley acknowledges that a handful of arrests will not end the nationwide problem of steroid abuse by cops.

Referring to the four Norman police officers who lost their jobs, he said, "It's not an isolated incident."
 
CDB

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I can't believe how much post hoc ergo propter hoc **** goes into articles with no question whatsoever. Never occurs to people to try and get a feel of how many people are using steroids, or any other substance, and then see how many of them demonstrate whatever behavior they're looking for, and whether or not the rate it displays itself in that group diverges from the general population.

I don't know about all of you, but I generally stomp someone's head in everytime I down a dianabol or shoot some test cyp. No control over it whatsoever, just need to kill someone.

Also love how a group of cops are willing to burglarize houses and it's the steroid use that led to their problems, not that they were just scumbags to begin with.
 

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I concur, the steriods did not create this behavior. It was already in them to begin with.
 
Iron Warrior

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What a bunch of crap, Cuffs would have robbed and killed people with uncontrollable rage by now. What a pathetic tool the mainstream media has become.
 

srt298

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http://abcnews.go.com/Health/US/story?id=775659&page=1

May 24, 2005 — Amid the furor over steroid use by superstar athletes like baseball's Jose Canseco and Jason Giambi, another story is quietly unfolding in small towns and big cities across America — cops on steroids.

Referring to the four Norman police officers who lost their jobs, he said, "It's not an isolated incident."
Wow! I'm a former cop, now a law school student and single father, with custody I might add(so much for female cops...), I would have to agree that the southern city I used to work and live in had major issues...only thing is most of the guys I knew took then legal ph's that are now banned....so, in essence, they weren't breakin the law then, but I'm sure most of them stocked up and are now full blown felons...the irony. I would add that none of the guys I worked with had anger management problems, we only got really frustrated dealing with the same people over and over, the same gangs over and over and the same disrespect, B.S. and hatred for someone answering the call to save their butts from being stabbed killed or bleeding out. I've been slapped by many women that got P.O.'ed that I was taking their boyfriend to jail after they called screaming that he was beating the crap out of them...I think the real issue for cops now days is a lack of trust (rightly so in some cases) and lack of respect. I loved the job somedays and absolutely hated it other days. I must say that bustin' ass when things got crazy was a great stress reliever though...but I never applied more force than necessary. No Rodney's here, I wasn't a pussy with a night stick...(never understood those idiots not jumpin on and cuffing the idiot up).
 

Zero Tolerance

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The problem is, whenever somebody does something wrong, they look for an alibi. Anyone who's muscular is going to try and get away with whatever they've done by pleading temporary insanity - because of the steroids. I've heard about cases where women get lighter sentences because of PMS. And if I'm not mistaken, some African American crimes can be the result of "black rage". Roid rage is just another alibi.
 
milwood

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Bet Cuffs might have a thing or 2 to say about this. Ironically, he's one of the most level headed and thoughtful contributors around here...
 
Cuffs

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Thanks milwood.

I would have responded to this earlier, but I was too busy stomping people's skulls with my boots, doing cocaine, selling X, and burglarizing the property of those who I have been entrusted to protect.

Most of the officers (people) who have been outlined in this article had a behavior problem from the start. Brutality, stealing, being out-of-control have no place with law enforcement officers.

However, one must look at the officer as a "person." Do people make mistakes? Sure they (we) do. Do people make bad decisions? Unfortunately, yes. Should people who become police officers hold theirself above others in these areas? It is expected, and sworn to. Not only in their professional lives, but in their private as well. How many jobs do you know of that requires this? Not many. Is this an excuse for poor behavior? Absolutley not.

The media can take a few incidents of conduct unbecoming an officer, embelish it, or only tell one side of the "story" and law enforcement in general will look bad to the majority. What can I say, a large popluation of people believe what they read or see, because if it was in the newspaper or on their local news channel, then it must be true. :rolleyes: And, when a retraction is in order, where are these? Usually buried and in small print somewhere.

Being a polcie officer is not for everyone. It can be the funnest job, and at the drop of a hat, the worst job to have. It can be an emotional roller coaster, each work day. I have been in my share of fist-to-cuffs fights, shot at, being spit on, degraded, family and self threatened to be killed, having a child die in my arms while performing CPR, talking people out of commiting suicide at a time when they feel all is lost, delivering death notifications to spouses and children who are waiting for their husband/father to arrive home from work, scraping up what's left of a person from a roadway and into a bag, etc..etc..etc. With all these incidents, I have thought of hanging it up and going into something different, something more positive. But then I get that rare occassion where a person approaches me, thanking me for something I did for them months or years ago. Something that changed their life for the better. That's when I remember that I love this job, and was born to do this. Enough about me, I didn't want to turn this into a "brag" session, and I'm not looking for sympathy.

I know officers who have been fired for possessing/using aas's. They were good officers, good people. They just felt the need to get that "edge" while dealing with suspects on PCP, or whatever the case may be. Did they know the possible consequences? Yep, they sure did.
 

UNDERTAKER

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I personally think cops should be able to use aas as long as they consent to regular checkups by a Dr. Due to their duties, cops are above the law, and have to be in certain respects. Though personally I think the whole steriod use=agression is bullshit, maybe cops could only be allowed to use aas not known to induce this full blown "lets kill" attitude.
 

UNDERTAKER

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I wanna add and reinforce the idea that steriods dont lead to aggression. All the kids I know that use aas were agressive before they started aas. As a psychology major, my guess is that naturally agressive kids play sports, are bullies, or just partake in agressive behavior in general. These kids are simply prone to steriods due to its effects on there prerformance, ability to hurt people, or be agressive.
 
natedogg

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I think cops should abide by the law like everyone else. Remember, steroids are illegal whether you like it or not. That's like saying poiliticians should be able to smoke weed because they have stress or something.

I'll play devil's advocate and say that yes, I think steroids can make an already unstable person even more unstable. I've seen it in myself and in others. Personally I can have a pretty hot temper. I've used steroids before and my wife hated the fact that my temper became shorter when I was on. I was in denial, but I really do think It took less to blow up and it tended to happen more often as well.
 
Cuffs

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Cops are by no means are above the law, nor should they ever be placed in that category. If they ever are, then we may as well become a communist country. Cops should abide by the law, just as any other person should be expected to.
 
CDB

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I personally think cops should be able to use aas as long as they consent to regular checkups by a Dr. Due to their duties, cops are above the law, and have to be in certain respects.
I believe that's called a police state. Cops are subject to the same exact laws as everyone else, and that's the way it should be. For me personally and for a lot of people I know, nothing breeds more disrespect for police than police who blatantly violate the law on a regular basis. It's weird, but a cop with a clean record going overboard apprehending one suspect and getting charged with brutality has more respect in my eyes than the prick cops around here who run red lights on a regular basis for no reason other than they didn't feel like waiting with everyone else, or break any number of other laws that get other people hit with a hefty fine or a jail sentence.

The cops in my area piss me off especially. I know women who've been physically assaulted who get told "we can't do anything" by the cops around here. A bunch of glorified meter maids with bad attitudes. Getting them to take action on anything except the most blatantly obvious crimes is like pulling teeth out of pissed off rhino's head. However, you can bet your ass if you start moving your car towards the side of the road to turn even one foot before the turning lane begins, you'll get ticketed for passing on the right.
 

UNDERTAKER

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I mean only in certain circumtances......here is one I see in philly a lot.....Cops use the shoulder lane to pass people while in traffic. I used to think, what a bunch of douche bags. When I really got to thinking, I realized I rather have a cop actually doing his job than sitting in traffic.
 

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The problem is that many of those cops are passing you on the shoulder lane so they can get to Dunkin Donuts (Or Krispy Kreme, like along Rt. 1 in Philly). Especially in the case of NJ cops, the general attitude is that the way to be a good cop is to issue as many citations as possible while doing as little work as possible. This is why there is a spot for a speed trap every 1/2 mile on the NJ Turnpike/GSP. It's the mentality. I am not anti-cop, on the contrary I've met many courteous, professional officers. Just not in Jersey.

"Should cops be allowed to do steroids?" That question should be balanced with, "Should the general public be allowed to do steroids?" Yes, cops need to handle heavy physical confrontations with potentially armed and dangerous suspects, and the intimidation factor of a big, tough looking cop is a deterrent in and of itself. But if cops, who are often some of our most heroic citizens, are using steroids, perhaps the government should be re-evaluating what the criteria is for their prescription. By making heroes into common criminals, it tarnishes the badge and hurts everyone. Perhaps the requirements for steroid use should be based on tests of mental stability, which seems much more likely to cause overaggressive behavior.
 

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I love how every looks for the easy way out , some thing or some one else to blame; in this case roids "made" them do these things and act this way.
 
CDB

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The only cops that I don't like are the young rookies that think they have something to prove...
If they try to prove themselves going after murderers and rapists, I like 'em. If they try to prove themselves by showing what a man they are because they can ticket you for that busted tail light, I don't.

In my life here on Long Island, I've met one good, professional cop. One, and I've had experiences with a few. That's not a good ratio, however informal. And oddly enough the most professional guy I met was in a situation where he had reason to suspect me of breaking into someone's house. In the situation where it was possibly a serious crime being commited, the cop I met was polite and professional as hell. Then I've got some prick who pulls me over and tells me my inspection is up, when it wasn't, and then tickets me anyway so I have to show up in court and prove it to get it dismissed. This ticket coming when two people run a red light right in front of this guy too, and he pulls me over literally for nothing.

To back OT, people who are pricks and do steroids will be pricks afterwards just as they were before. There's no mystery there. Lazy bastards who smoke pot will be lazy bastards afterward, no mystery there. I've done nearly every drug known to man in my life, along with a crowd that was of the same mindset as me. From my personal experience it's the person, not the drug, that determines the effects to a very large extent.
 
SJA

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Thanks milwood.

I would have responded to this earlier, but I was too busy stomping people's skulls with my boots, doing cocaine, selling X, and burglarizing the property of those who I have been entrusted to protect.

:icon_lol: :icon_lol: :rofl:

I have several COP friends. I know that there are those who look for the edge through AAS use and I have no problem with that. As Cuffs pointed out, they know the consequences of their actions if they get busted. I don't blame them one bit for trying to enhance themselves physically because it is a demanding job and one that I'm not sure that I would want to have. I truly appreciate the nature of the job and the fact that they are putting their ass on the line a lot of times for people who will turn around and bitch about them later.

I've definitely met some real prick COPs, but they aren't the majority and I've also met some prick engineers, mechanics, bosses, girlfriends etc.. I agree that some people can decrease their tolerance for stupidity and carelessness when using AAS....but the ones who act on it usually have a temper/attitude problem to begin with. There are assholes in every profession and, unfortunately with COPs, the media gives them the biggest headlines and therefore people believe that COPs are evil.

It's a noble profession and I for one tip my hat to them........I'll feel this way until some roid raging homo COP is beating me with a Maglite while his partner maces me :rofl:
 
wastedwhiteboy2

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we need someone with knowledge to be in major media outlets.
 
CEDeoudes59

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maybe cops use cocaine.
maybe cops use coffee.
maybe cops use cigarettes.
lets focus on steroids.
 
CEDeoudes59

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Ronnie Coleman/Officer Coleman
All-natural?

as long as the police aren't taking advantage and dealing drugs that they would otherwise do time for, the media and government should mind their own business
 
milwood

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Ronnie Coleman/Officer Coleman
All-natural?

as long as the police aren't taking advantage and dealing drugs that they would otherwise do time for, the media and government should mind their own business
yeah, I hear Ronnie just uses a lot of flax oil. And Cell-Mass...
 
buffb2

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I think cops should abide by the law like everyone else. Remember, steroids are illegal whether you like it or not. That's like saying poiliticians should be able to smoke weed because they have stress or something.

I'll play devil's advocate and say that yes, I think steroids can make an already unstable person even more unstable. I've seen it in myself and in others. Personally I can have a pretty hot temper. I've used steroids before and my wife hated the fact that my temper became shorter when I was on. I was in denial, but I really do think It took less to blow up and it tended to happen more often as well.
Absoultly 100%! They are illegal and if i cant use them they cant either! I totally agree with the no tolerance policy also.Get caught using them or get caught with them IMMEDATE DISMISSAL from the force. Rules are Rules Laws are Laws. I also believe random drug test should be given like six times a year checking for all drugs (including steriods)
 
Cuffs

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Absoultly 100%! They are illegal and if i cant use them they cant either! I totally agree with the no tolerance policy also.Get caught using them or get caught with them IMMEDATE DISMISSAL from the force. Rules are Rules Laws are Laws. I also believe random drug test should be given like six times a year checking for all drugs (including steriods)
I agree with your belief on the officers abiding by the law.

However, taking in the last part of your statement. If you feel this way about this type of testing in the law enforcement community, then why shouldn't it be practiced on each citizen in this country? If you work at McDonalds and test positive for aas's, then your fired. If you are a doctor, or attorney and test poitive, you lose your license to practice. If you own your own business and test positive, you lose your business license. Why should the actons of a police officer be held any differently then the general public, on or off-duty?
 

Qwerty

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I agree with your belief on the officers abiding by the law.

However, taking in the last part of your statement. If you feel this way about this type of testing in the law enforcement community, then why shouldn't it be practiced on each citizen in this country? If you work at McDonalds and test positive for aas's, then your fired. If you are a doctor, or attorney and test poitive, you lose your license to practice. If you own your own business and test positive, you lose your business license. Why should the actons of a police officer be held any differently then the general public, on or off-duty?
Because the whole point of a cops duty is to uphold the law, protect citizens, and maintain the line of diginity between legal and illegal. If the job involves keeping citizens in check and going after those who break the law, they should be held to a higher standard by principle alone. The same could be said for a judge or prosecuting attorney. You should be under more scrutiny and held to a higher standard in regards to the law if your very job is upholding the law and going after people who break it.
 
kwyckemynd00

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But there is an even greater problem: violent, aggressive behavior, a common side effect of steroids, can contribute to police brutality — even murder.
This has to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.
 

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and be under more stress, paid less than a convenience store manager, risk life and limb more often, have an average lifespan of 10 years after retirement....(in the 50's for most cops), have one of the highest divorce rates and suicide rates, loose your first amendment right to free speech (can't curse at a citizen, tsk tsk, but can be cursed at)

all in the name of helping the citizens, when most would rather you not be around. It is such a double standard, you loose so much and gain few things. Only thing making it worth it is your natural desire to help people (fulfilling that makes it worth it).
 

Qwerty

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and be under more stress, paid less than a convenience store manager, risk life and limb more often, have an average lifespan of 10 years after retirement....(in the 50's for most cops), have one of the highest divorce rates and suicide rates, loose your first amendment right to free speech (can't curse at a citizen, tsk tsk, but can be cursed at)

all in the name of helping the citizens, when most would rather you not be around. It is such a double standard, you loose so much and gain few things. Only thing making it worth it is your natural desire to help people (fulfilling that makes it worth it).
A cop doesn't lose their first ammendment rights anymore than any normal working citizen. I can't tell my boss he is a fucking retard without getting fired. A cop could say whatever he wants off-duty, just like everyone else. So I'm not really following that point.

Otherwise, some good points.
 
Jayhawkk

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As far as the taillight thing, most cops get the major busts from those minor infractions that people think is trivial. Driving too closly, tail lights etc are great ways into getting big arrests. Your average cop will, if nothing else is found, write warnings or equipment repair orders.
 
Cuffs

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Because the whole point of a cops duty is to uphold the law, protect citizens, and maintain the line of diginity between legal and illegal. If the job involves keeping citizens in check and going after those who break the law, they should be held to a higher standard by principle alone. The same could be said for a judge or prosecuting attorney. You should be under more scrutiny and held to a higher standard in regards to the law if your very job is upholding the law and going after people who break it.
Then where does one's personal life separate from their professional life? I have agreed Cops, and anyone who resides in the U.S., should abide by the law. However, I don't agree about anyone being held at a higher standard, principle or not, or being under more scrutiny, than anyone else. Remember, a cop is a citizen aslo.
 
Cuffs

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A cop doesn't lose their first ammendment rights anymore than any normal working citizen. I can't tell my boss he is a fucking retard without getting fired. A cop could say whatever he wants off-duty, just like everyone else. So I'm not really following that point.

Otherwise, some good points.
However, a cop can not say whatever he wants off-duty, just like everyone else. Remember, they are held to a higher standard, so is their behavior. I have known officers who have been fired for shooting their mouth off to the wrong people, all off-duty. Look at the cops who were doing porn, or other "unethical" off-duty hobbies who were fired for just that. They call it "conduct unbecoming an officer." Cops are forced to swear to a code of ethics if they want to work. And in that code, it also swears to living an unsullied life on and off duty. What and who defines unsullied? It all depends on the department and part of the country he/she works.
 
Cuffs

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and be under more stress, paid less than a convenience store manager, risk life and limb more often, have an average lifespan of 10 years after retirement....(in the 50's for most cops), have one of the highest divorce rates and suicide rates, loose your first amendment right to free speech (can't curse at a citizen, tsk tsk, but can be cursed at)

all in the name of helping the citizens, when most would rather you not be around. It is such a double standard, you loose so much and gain few things. Only thing making it worth it is your natural desire to help people (fulfilling that makes it worth it).
This is a very true statement.
 
Cuffs

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A cop doesn't lose their first ammendment rights anymore than any normal working citizen.
Oh yes they do. They can be ordered not to speak of certain investigations (which is a good thing), and ordered not to talk to any member of the press about any matter concerning the department, only refer them to the proper person. This is on or off duty. They can also be ordered not to talk about an internal investigation they may be witness or subject of. Also, if an officer refuses to provide an statement during an internal affairs investigation, they can be ordered to talk. Even if they are providing information that would lead to their termination, or prosecution. If they choose not to, they will be considered insubordinate and fired. Any citizen can choose to "plead the Fifth", but a cop loses his/her Fifth Amendment rights. However, they usually know this going into it.
 

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A cop does not lose their first ammendment rights more than anyone else, period. Sure, there are sensitive things that cannot be mentioned or said with regards to their work. But that holds true for lawyers, doctors (patient confidentiality), stock brokers, psychologists, social workers, and countless other professions. The first ammendment DOES NOT give you the right to say whatever you want. You cannot yell fire in a crowded theater. Hell, as a pizza delivery guy putting himself through college, I can't say a lot of things that come to my mind when I deliver to people. I have to be polite and courteous and keep my mouth shut, even if I deliver to a prick. Otherwise, I get fired. That's part of being employed. You can't just say whatever the **** is on your mind at work or to people regarding your work. It can get you fired. If a doctor goes around telling everyone in town that Susy Brown came into the office because she has genital worts, he should have to pay the consequences for that. It's part of the job.

A cop does not lose their first ammendment rights any more than anyone else. It's called having a job. Enough of the pity party.

BTW, I realize cops have a very tough job (one of the toughest out there) and they do it for a lot less respect and gratitude than they should get. But there has been a lot of "poor me" posts, and I just think this notion about the first ammendment is ridiculous.
 
buffb2

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Because the whole point of a cops duty is to uphold the law, protect citizens, and maintain the line of diginity between legal and illegal. If the job involves keeping citizens in check and going after those who break the law, they should be held to a higher standard by principle alone. The same could be said for a judge or prosecuting attorney. You should be under more scrutiny and held to a higher standard in regards to the law if your very job is upholding the law and going after people who break it.
You beat me to it Qwerty. Word for word. As for underpaid and otherthings ( shot at ) nobody made anybody be a cop. I agree underpaid but thats the main reason i choose not to be a cop.
 
Cuffs

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A cop does not lose their first ammendment rights more than anyone else, period. Sure, there are sensitive things that cannot be mentioned or said with regards to their work. But that holds true for lawyers, doctors (patient confidentiality), stock brokers, psychologists, social workers, and countless other professions. The first ammendment DOES NOT give you the right to say whatever you want. You cannot yell fire in a crowded theater. Hell, as a pizza delivery guy putting himself through college, I can't say a lot of things that come to my mind when I deliver to people. I have to be polite and courteous and keep my mouth shut, even if I deliver to a prick. Otherwise, I get fired. That's part of being employed. You can't just say whatever the **** is on your mind at work or to people regarding your work. It can get you fired. If a doctor goes around telling everyone in town that Susy Brown came into the office because she has genital worts, he should have to pay the consequences for that. It's part of the job.

A cop does not lose their first ammendment rights any more than anyone else. It's called having a job. Enough of the pity party.

BTW, I realize cops have a very tough job (one of the toughest out there) and they do it for a lot less respect and gratitude than they should get. But there has been a lot of "poor me" posts, and I just think this notion about the first ammendment is ridiculous.
Cops do lose a portion of thier first amendment rights, and their fifth amendment rights. The reasons you have cited are true. But, an off-duty officer can not just go around and shoot his/her mouth off. If one does, and it gets back to their department, they pay the consequence of possible disciplinary action. If an off-duty cop were to spread rumors and curse people out all while off-duty, they can be punished. If an off-duty officer is arrested for drunk driving, he can lose his job. If an off-duty officer is pulled over and says something to be a smart ass to the officer conducting the traffic stop, he can receive discipline. Or, just receiving a speeding ticket and the issuing department decides to let the off-duty officers department know about it, he can be disciplined. If an off-duty officer gets into a fight, he can be disciplined. If an off-duty officer speaks poorly of his department's work ethics, and the ethics of their department heads, he can be disciplined.

I don't know where you come off about your "pity party" or "poor me" comments. I was taking this as a general conversation, but now am taking offense to that remark. Unless it wasn't directed towards me specifically. Sometimes it's hard to tell what is being said to who online, and I understand this.

The reasons/incidents I have cited, I have seen first hand.
Officers are already held to a higher standard than any of the public. Is this a good thing? For the most part it is. Is it right to hold them where no other citizens are held? That's up to each persons opinion. Cops live their life on a double edged sword. However, they know this going into it.
 
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AgnosticFront

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Sh*t talk about loss of 1st ammendment rights... I could go to jail for talking about what goes on where I work.
 
Cuffs

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Sh*t talk about loss of 1st ammendment rights... I could go to jail for talking about what goes on where I work.
Well, if you took the time to read the entire post, you would have seen that work related matters are not the only things that were talked about. And I doubt you have the type of job where you have to watch what you say in general when you're off the clock, not specifics, but in general. Instead of coming up with your "sh*t talk" comment, why don't you share your wealth of knowledge on the given topic? I would like to hear it. Maybe I'll learn something. All I know is, I am speaking from facts, and I have no reason to make things up.
 
kwyckemynd00

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Well, if you took the time to read the entire post, you would have seen that work related matters are not the only things that were talked about. And I doubt you have the type of job where you have to watch what you say in general when you're off the clock, not specifics, but in general. Instead of coming up with your "sh*t talk" comment, why don't you share your wealth of knowledge on the given topic? I would like to hear it. Maybe I'll learn something. All I know is, I am speaking from facts, and I have no reason to make things up.
I think he intended that "**** talk" to come off as:

"****! Talk about first amendment rights...." See what I mean? LOL....
 
SJA

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I think he intended that "**** talk" to come off as:

"****! Talk about first amendment rights...." See what I mean? LOL....

That's the way that I read it too...but Cuffs needs some carbs....anyone have a doughnut??? :icon_lol:

In reference to the wisdom (venom) being spewed by a pizza delivery boy....there are probably a lot of us who lose certain rights with respect to their jobs. You may find that later in life you may have to give some of those liberties up as well if you are in pursuit of one of those careers. This is a fact so accept it. We all know this going in and have to actually sign and swear to it.

As far as the direction that this thread has taken....the original intention was the 'roid rage' comment in the article The one guy in the article said that after his buddy was shot by his own gun which had been wrestled away form him, he started using steroids to get stronger so that wouldn't happen to him. This is probably the incentive for most in LE to use steroids. Personally (this is just my opinion so flame away if you must), I think that since they are in the position where they need to have a physical advantage, they should be allowed to (under a doctor's care) use muscle enhancing drugs without ill repute. Laws are guidelines for the general public. They are bent all the time by the powers that be (we've proven this by showing you that 1st and 5th amendment rights change with certain employment). Allowing an edge for people in LE would be perfectly fine IMO. In fact, I have another story to show you why I think this.

When I was about 18 Y/O, a guy where I worked stole a lot of things that my boss had just got on his wedding day. They knew who did it through prints. When the guy came in, they had a detective there to arrest him. He ran, jumped a fence and headed into the woods. My Boss asked me to track him (I was pretty good in the woods). I found him out there changing his clothes (he had stashed some out there). Then he just sat and was smoking. So I went back to get the COPS. the two fatasses that came with me dropped back quick. The first one gave up in 1/2 mile. The second one was practically weazing and stumbling. He would have gotten his ass kicked if he was in a foot chase which led to a struggle. He ended up turning back too. So the guy got away (that day). I remember thinking "how the **** can these guys protect ME? Isn't there some sort of physical condition that you have to be in?"

With that said, I would think that if the standard COP trained like we do, they would be able to kick much more ass when needed. I already stated how I feel on the rage issue.
 

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That's the way that I read it too...but Cuffs needs some carbs....anyone have a doughnut??? :icon_lol:

In reference to the wisdom (venom) being spewed by a pizza delivery boy....there are probably a lot of us who lose certain rights with respect to their jobs. You may find that later in life you may have to give some of those liberties up as well if you are in pursuit of one of those careers. This is a fact so accept it. We all know this going in and have to actually sign and swear to it.
That was the whole point I was making. Point out where any of my logic faultered, but all I was doing was pointing out that many people lose the "right" to say certain things no matter what the profession (as you also pointed out). But I guess you could call that venom...

I really don't see the necessity for cops to be on steroids either. I think the harm COULD outweigh the good. But I think as long as they stay in good shape, they already have a huge advantage over most criminals. Not even soldiers are put on steroids, but most of those guys are in amazing shape. They have outstanding endurance and strength.
 
AgnosticFront

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Well, if you took the time to read the entire post, you would have seen that work related matters are not the only things that were talked about. And I doubt you have the type of job where you have to watch what you say in general when you're off the clock, not specifics, but in general. Instead of coming up with your "sh*t talk" comment, why don't you share your wealth of knowledge on the given topic? I would like to hear it. Maybe I'll learn something. All I know is, I am speaking from facts, and I have no reason to make things up.

LOL... grumpy cops man :rofl:
 
Cuffs

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That's the way that I read it too...but Cuffs needs some carbs....anyone have a doughnut??? :icon_lol:
LOL...I had my make believe doughnut, a bagel, instead.

You make some good points, as does Qwerty. If I sounded like I was trying to get pity for having a portion of my civil rights taken away, I wasn't. I know, as does any person in this position, cop or other, knows going into it. The amedments are interpreted different ways. If they were clear, then we wouldn't have a Supreme Court in this country. Not even they can agree on them 100%.

Oh, and Agnostic...grow up dude. Don't you think it's about time?
 

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sorry, I was gone a couple of days and couldn't reply to the posts. Cuffs, thanks for taking up the slack. I don't ask for pity, and choose to do what I do, regardless. However, I find it typical for people who know nothing, or know someone who is a cop, etc. and they think they know it all about law enforcement. Few cops even know it all about Law Enforcement, mainly because it s different for each area as cuffs said. But until you have done a job, don't tell someone how it is really done. I wouldn't think of telling a soldier how to do the job he did in iraq.

ok, now I know I sound grumpy (and I will eat my bagle/doughnut), but it gets old taking crap from kids who know nothing about something but think they do. opinions are like assholes, everyone has one...including me. And mine only matters to me, but that is all that matters really (except for god and family).

ok, rant over.:rant:
 

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I agree with your belief on the officers abiding by the law.

However, taking in the last part of your statement. If you feel this way about this type of testing in the law enforcement community, then why shouldn't it be practiced on each citizen in this country? If you work at McDonalds and test positive for aas's, then your fired. If you are a doctor, or attorney and test poitive, you lose your license to practice. If you own your own business and test positive, you lose your business license. Why should the actons of a police officer be held any differently then the general public, on or off-duty?
im happy to see another officer on here that can speak so well for use. I appreciate reading your post on this and you are right on. The officers are the problem not the steroid or any other supp that they are on. They had a predisposition to anger and i bet if we were to see there files we would notice a pattern of behavior before this happened

max von
 
AgnosticFront

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You mean grow up like getting mad about jokes on the internet? No thanks.
 

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