HMM transdermal Furazadrol Anyone?

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    HMM transdermal Furazadrol Anyone?


    Me thinks it can and will be done. BWahahahahaaaaaa O yes the mad chemist
    anyway the thought just popped into my head. Have not looked into it yet not sure if it will work. Molecular weight works so we know it will get into the blood. HMMM worth looking into tee hee

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    HMMM sounds good to me. I'm willing to try anything once. HAHA

    The Chlorathoxy sparks my interest as well! Man too many to try. which do i pick?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarbellBeast View Post
    HMMM sounds good to me. I'm willing to try anything once. HAHA

    The Chlorathoxy sparks my interest as well! Man too many to try. which do i pick?
    Chlorathoxy test bottles coming out in a week or so
    •   
       

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    Is there an advantage to TD because of the short half life?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarbellBeast View Post
    HMMM sounds good to me. I'm willing to try anything once. HAHA

    The Chlorathoxy sparks my interest as well! Man too many to try. which do i pick?
    That's why stacks were created
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    Quote Originally Posted by needtogetmuscle View Post
    Chlorathoxy test bottles coming out in a week or so
    woot woot!!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by needtogetmuscle View Post
    Chlorathoxy test bottles coming out in a week or so
    Awesome cant wait man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerkanadia View Post
    Is there an advantage to TD because of the short half life?
    I think the advantage is due to low oral absorption as well. This compound lacks the methyl group, which makes it safer, but also less powerfull and less orally active as seen by the large dosages needed to get effect from this vs the dosage of its methyl counterpart. TD delivery in theory should increase the effeciency of the delivery, but I still think a dose in the 100's of mgs per day would be needed for a good effect, esp as stand alone, but I could be very wrong as I have nothing to base this off of except td using other hormones, not this one. Still would like to see it offered.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kvothe View Post
    I think the advantage is due to low oral absorption as well. This compound lacks the methyl group, which makes it safer, but also less powerfull and less orally active as seen by the large dosages needed to get effect from this vs the dosage of its methyl counterpart. TD delivery in theory should increase the effeciency of the delivery, but I still think a dose in the 100's of mgs per day would be needed for a good effect, esp as stand alone, but I could be very wrong as I have nothing to base this off of except td using other hormones, not this one. Still would like to see it offered.
    Good point, oral absorption rates is the main reason for TDs
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    Def interested, i like dermals!
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    I'd like to see that and a Chlora only TD.....
    ~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!


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    Low oral availability is i not, good cadidate.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    the thp ether group has to be cleaved off in order for the steroid to become active, which the low ph of the stomach is able to do.

    the blood has a neutral ph balance, so the steroid would remain in active.

    this is why so much of this compound is required, because so little makes it though to the blood stream after it becomes active.


    looks like the liver would have to set this compound free. how much would make it to the androgen receptor? any mans guess.
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    some info on thp ethers....
    ------------

    Tetrahydropyranyl-ethers (THP-ethers) and other acetals

    Chemists use THP ethers for temporary protection of hydroxyl groups against undesired reactions. Later the THP group can be removed easily by acid hydrolysis. Anabolic steroids are often marketed as THP ethers following the same idea. In the body the THP group is removed to set free the active steroid.


    THP ethers of steroids are only partial ethers, although the word ether is in the name. An ether can be derived from water by substituting the H-atoms by alkyl groups. In Scheme 1 first one H-atom is replaced by an ethyl group, which leads to ethanol, the common alcohol in beer, wine and stronger alcoholic beverages. When also the second H-atom is replaced by an ethyl group, an ether is formed, in this case diethyl ether, the most common ether. In an ether both C-atoms next to the O-atom have only one bond to this O-atom.


    A sixmembered ring with an O-atom and two double bonds is called a pyran. When both double bonds are reduced, each with two H-atoms, four H-atoms will enter the molecule and we get tetrahydropyran (see Scheme 1). When the second H-atom at the O-atom of ethanol is replaced by this group, we get the tetrahydropyranyl ether of ethanol. Till here everything is the same in the upper and lower row of Scheme 1. Nevertheless there are differences between the two ethers.


    Scheme 1





    On the right side of the O-atoms everything is the same, but on the left side this is not the case. In diethyl ether the left C-atom also has only one bond to the O-atom. In the tetrahydropyranyl ether this left C-atom has two bonds to two different O-atoms.


    This seemingly small difference in structure means that this group has other chemical properties than an ordinary ether, and it has also a different name. This group is encircled in the structural formula and is called an acetal. Acetals are easily hydrolyzed under acidic conditions and ethers are not (see Scheme 2). The explanation for this difference in chemical behavior is known but we will not go into that in this book.


    Scheme 2




    The stomach contains gastric acid. Chemists know this acid better as hydrochloric acid (HCl) and this is a strong acid. Gastric acid causes a pH between 1 and 2 in the stomach and that are pretty strong acidic conditions. Chemists indicate acidity with pH values. Ordinary water has a pH of 7, which is called neutral. A pH between 0 and 7 is called acidic and a pH between 7 and 14 is called basic. In the intestinal tract the pH is slightly basic, between 7 and 8. In the blood and in muscles the pH is close to neutral.


    Acetals like THP ethers hydrolyze easily under acidic conditions, which means that orally taken THP ethers of anabolic steroids will hydrolyze already in the stomach. This sets free the anabolic steroid, while it still has to pass the intestinal track and the liver. So there will be time and opportunity for metabolic transformation of the steroid to inactive metabolites.


    A THP ether also can be given parentally, but the THP steroid derivative itself is not active. When the derivative does not pass the stomach, the THP ether group has to be removed in a different way. In the blood and in muscles the pH is neutral and under these conditions THP ethers are stable compounds. We also do not have enzymes in the blood, which can hydrolyze THP ethers, as is the case with esters.


    However, cytochrome P450 enzymes can oxidize THP ethers in the liver. This oxidation takes place in the ring next to the O-atom. The oxidation product then decomposes spontaneously to a dialdehyde and the free steroid (see Scheme 3). This scheme is a bit speculative, because little has been published about the metabolism of THP ethers.

    Scheme 3




    The free steroid will be converted in the liver to glucuronates or sulfate esters. The free steroid also may be inactivated through bonding to Sex Hormone Binding Globuline. Probably only a small part of the steroid will reach the muscle cell.


    There is a clear difference between esters and THP-ethers of anabolic steroids. Esters are given parentally and after a slow release in the blood, enzymes will hydrolyze them to the active anabolic steroid. Orally taken THP ethers will hydrolyze already in the stomach. Parentally given THP ethers are oxidized in the liver and the active steroid is set free there.


    As orally taken THP ethers are already hydrolyzed in the stomach, it does not make much difference when you take the anabolic steroids itself or its THP ether. The marketing of an anabolic steroid as its THP ether probably has more to do with avoidance of patents or law regulations than with the making of better or longer lasting anabolic compounds. In Figure 1 some THP ethers of anabolic steroids are collected, which we have found in nutritional supplements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by needtogetmuscle View Post
    Chlorathoxy test bottles coming out in a week or so

    I can't wait to try the Chlorothoxy. I am going to KTS..SJ
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    Is there any chance **** products will be available on some UK/European sites?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    the thp ether group has to be cleaved off in order for the steroid to become active, which the low ph of the stomach is able to do.

    the blood has a neutral ph balance, so the steroid would remain in active.

    this is why so much of this compound is required, because so little makes it though to the blood stream after it becomes active.


    looks like the liver would have to set this compound free. how much would make it to the androgen receptor? any mans guess.

    I am no chemist, and certainly not up on supplement laws, but if the above is true, then why not have the base compound, furaza without the methylation or thp ether? Often transdermals slow down the delivery of compound so if half life of the base is short the delivery system would help to alleviate any problems there. Is this possible?, or would taking off the thp ether cause there to be solubility problems where the concentration in the spray would be too low to get effects?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Low oral availability is i not, good cadidate.
    I was thinking the same.

    Well at least the cholrathoxy is on its way and this will be awesome
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteConny View Post
    Is there any chance **** products will be available on some UK/European sites?

    //CC
    I have been working with one and we might my friend
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    some info on thp ethers....
    ------------

    Tetrahydropyranyl-ethers (THP-ethers) and other acetals

    Chemists use THP ethers for temporary protection of hydroxyl groups against undesired reactions. Later the THP group can be removed easily by acid hydrolysis. Anabolic steroids are often marketed as THP ethers following the same idea. In the body the THP group is removed to set free the active steroid.


    THP ethers of steroids are only partial ethers, although the word ether is in the name. An ether can be derived from water by substituting the H-atoms by alkyl groups. In Scheme 1 first one H-atom is replaced by an ethyl group, which leads to ethanol, the common alcohol in beer, wine and stronger alcoholic beverages. When also the second H-atom is replaced by an ethyl group, an ether is formed, in this case diethyl ether, the most common ether. In an ether both C-atoms next to the O-atom have only one bond to this O-atom.


    A sixmembered ring with an O-atom and two double bonds is called a pyran. When both double bonds are reduced, each with two H-atoms, four H-atoms will enter the molecule and we get tetrahydropyran (see Scheme 1). When the second H-atom at the O-atom of ethanol is replaced by this group, we get the tetrahydropyranyl ether of ethanol. Till here everything is the same in the upper and lower row of Scheme 1. Nevertheless there are differences between the two ethers.


    Scheme 1





    On the right side of the O-atoms everything is the same, but on the left side this is not the case. In diethyl ether the left C-atom also has only one bond to the O-atom. In the tetrahydropyranyl ether this left C-atom has two bonds to two different O-atoms.


    This seemingly small difference in structure means that this group has other chemical properties than an ordinary ether, and it has also a different name. This group is encircled in the structural formula and is called an acetal. Acetals are easily hydrolyzed under acidic conditions and ethers are not (see Scheme 2). The explanation for this difference in chemical behavior is known but we will not go into that in this book.


    Scheme 2




    The stomach contains gastric acid. Chemists know this acid better as hydrochloric acid (HCl) and this is a strong acid. Gastric acid causes a pH between 1 and 2 in the stomach and that are pretty strong acidic conditions. Chemists indicate acidity with pH values. Ordinary water has a pH of 7, which is called neutral. A pH between 0 and 7 is called acidic and a pH between 7 and 14 is called basic. In the intestinal tract the pH is slightly basic, between 7 and 8. In the blood and in muscles the pH is close to neutral.


    Acetals like THP ethers hydrolyze easily under acidic conditions, which means that orally taken THP ethers of anabolic steroids will hydrolyze already in the stomach. This sets free the anabolic steroid, while it still has to pass the intestinal track and the liver. So there will be time and opportunity for metabolic transformation of the steroid to inactive metabolites.


    A THP ether also can be given parentally, but the THP steroid derivative itself is not active. When the derivative does not pass the stomach, the THP ether group has to be removed in a different way. In the blood and in muscles the pH is neutral and under these conditions THP ethers are stable compounds. We also do not have enzymes in the blood, which can hydrolyze THP ethers, as is the case with esters.


    However, cytochrome P450 enzymes can oxidize THP ethers in the liver. This oxidation takes place in the ring next to the O-atom. The oxidation product then decomposes spontaneously to a dialdehyde and the free steroid (see Scheme 3). This scheme is a bit speculative, because little has been published about the metabolism of THP ethers.

    Scheme 3




    The free steroid will be converted in the liver to glucuronates or sulfate esters. The free steroid also may be inactivated through bonding to Sex Hormone Binding Globuline. Probably only a small part of the steroid will reach the muscle cell.


    There is a clear difference between esters and THP-ethers of anabolic steroids. Esters are given parentally and after a slow release in the blood, enzymes will hydrolyze them to the active anabolic steroid. Orally taken THP ethers will hydrolyze already in the stomach. Parentally given THP ethers are oxidized in the liver and the active steroid is set free there.


    As orally taken THP ethers are already hydrolyzed in the stomach, it does not make much difference when you take the anabolic steroids itself or its THP ether. The marketing of an anabolic steroid as its THP ether probably has more to do with avoidance of patents or law regulations than with the making of better or longer lasting anabolic compounds. In Figure 1 some THP ethers of anabolic steroids are collected, which we have found in nutritional supplements.

    and this is why JB is on the **** team
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    Quote Originally Posted by needtogetmuscle View Post
    I was thinking the same.

    Well at least the cholrathoxy is on its way and this will be awesome
    any ETA on this stuff, i have some friends asking about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kvothe View Post
    I am no chemist, and certainly not up on supplement laws, but if the above is true, then why not have the base compound, furaza without the methylation or thp ether? Often transdermals slow down the delivery of compound so if half life of the base is short the delivery system would help to alleviate any problems there. Is this possible?, or would taking off the thp ether cause there to be solubility problems where the concentration in the spray would be too low to get effects?
    I have wondered about an already active fura steroid.

    but I think it would be illegal. but I dont know, but if it wasn't, then the fura compound without the thp ether, or methyl could possibly be a candidate.

    maybe an ethyl version. idk. getting in actual designer steroids is out of my chemistry knowledge.

    I've only begun discussing synthesizing new compounds with a couple of members on the board, and they all agree, it would be tough.

    I know needto could do it, it's just a matter of getting the raws, and staying legal while doing it.

    but new designer steroid possibilities are endless.

    I havn't seen anything on 17a ethyl furazabol. this would as far as I know, be a totally new designer steroid, and possibly legal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by needtogetmuscle View Post
    I have been working with one and we might my friend
    That is awesome news man!! Please let me know when and where and I'll be sure to order some

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    Quote Originally Posted by kvothe View Post
    I think the advantage is due to low oral absorption as well. This compound lacks the methyl group, which makes it safer, but also less powerfull and less orally active as seen by the large dosages needed to get effect from this vs the dosage of its methyl counterpart. TD delivery in theory should increase the effeciency of the delivery, but I still think a dose in the 100's of mgs per day would be needed for a good effect, esp as stand alone, but I could be very wrong as I have nothing to base this off of except td using other hormones, not this one. Still would like to see it offered.
    good post...... I have yet to see a non-methyl whose absorbtion rate increases enough(thru TD) to decrease the dosage to 100mgs or so~~I just dont see it happening . Perhaps it would allow you to decrease an oral dose from 300mgs to 250-maybe 200mgs TD but i dont see it going down to 100.

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    Interesting thread thus far
    doing my own thang!
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    YES, TRUE....but.....the higher bioavailability of a TD still does not address a hormone's short half life (so frequent applications are still necessary).

    TD Furaz= cool idea
    Frequent TD applications = Sunds like a pain


    Quote Originally Posted by Killerkanadia View Post
    Good point, oral absorption rates is the main reason for TDs
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    MOAR!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    YES, TRUE....but.....the higher bioavailability of a TD still does not address a hormone's short half life (so frequent applications are still necessary).

    TD Furaz= cool idea
    Frequent TD applications = Sunds like a pain
    I could be wrong, but I thought that I remembered reading somewhere, maybe from PA, that the transdermal itself acted as a depot due to the time of absorption? My explanation may be off, but I think td application does help to get around the short half life. For isntance, think about old 1-t and 4-ad transdermals, test base transdermals, the current 1-t and dermacrine, the hormones are the base hormones, and at most I have heard of two applications per day. I think that the problem with this is going to be the large dosage needed. I really doubt we are going to be able to get away with much less than a hundred mgs per day. The problem this creates is that the cost savings on less hormone may be made up for in the higher cost of the delivery system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by needtogetmuscle View Post
    Me thinks it can and will be done. BWahahahahaaaaaa O yes the mad chemist
    anyway the thought just popped into my head. Have not looked into it yet not sure if it will work. Molecular weight works so we know it will get into the blood. HMMM worth looking into tee hee
    me wants.


    the carrier you have come up with is fantastic-i just finished a run of your forma, and it was best formestane product i have used-hands down.


    furazadrol was great, before axis got that tainted batch, haven't ran it since-i miss it. best cutting ph cycle i ever ran!!!
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    AGREED!!!!!!

    I just bought controlled labs version as they have a good rep with PH's so I hope it's solid
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    AGREED!!!!!!

    I just bought competitive edge labs version as they have a good rep with PH's so I hope it's solid
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    AGREED!!!!!!

    I just bought competitive edge labs version as they have a good rep with PH's so I hope it's solid
    I can assure you it is- We probably have the best quality control of any PH company.

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    Good to know.
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