Prescription androgel - did my doc screw me up? - lab results inside

  1. Prescription androgel - did my doc screw me up? - lab results inside


    I posted this in the steroid forum too, but was told that some people here might be able to help.

    When I was 19 or 20 (I'm now 22), I was referred to an endocrinologist because some routine blood work turned up high estrogen. I had been feeling tired every day and was getting sick a lot with colds etc. The endo did a full blood workup and it turned out the high estrogen was a fluke result, but my testosterone came back on the low end of normal (total test 432).

    He said that even though I didn't technically have hypogonadism (i.e. wasn't out of the normal range), my body might need more testosterone to feel energetic, etc. He prescribed me 5g/day Androgel, and my testosterone now fluctuates between 550-700.

    My T3 was at 95.6, and he said that I could use a low dosage of T3 to boost my energy as well, even though I wasn't technically hypothyroidic. He prescribed 5 mcg/day Cytomel (T3).

    He said that I should try the Androgel for a while and there is a good chance that my body will "learn" that I feel better on that and it will up my natural production.

    I've been on it for 3 years now and he has tried to take me off twice. Each time I go off, my total testosterone drops right back down to ~400, and I actually have less free test than when I started. Both times, the doc took me off cold turkey without any sort of PCT.

    I spoke with my GP about it and he said that I've been on it so long that my testes have probably atrophied and I'll have to be on it for life.

    Do you guys think my doc screwed me up for good? What can I do to get off the gel without such a sharp drop in testosterone?


  2. Forgot to mention. I had a left varicocelectomy about 6 months ago. I now have a left hydrocele, urologist says it's better just to let it be than to go in and operate.
  3. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    Bump!!!
    The fool says in his heart “There is no God."

    I vehemently support your right to take offense to anything I post.
    •   
       

  4. Spreadsheet of my lab results attached


    I made a spreadsheet of all my test results since I first went to the doc.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. Quote Originally Posted by solguy View Post
    I made a spreadsheet of all my test results since I first went to the doc.
    Why are you on Nexium.
    If you have a hearthburn, wery often it is due to low stomach acids, not high as it is usually explained.
    Read this:
    TESTOSTERONE NATION
    if applicable, try Betaine HCL with Pepsin.
    I use Country Life 600mg, 5 tablets with each meal.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    You need at least 10gram Androgel/day
    If your DHT is ok then switch to T injections.
    Get whole thyroid panel, once.
    38 T3 Free
    39 T3 uptake
    40 T3,Total
    41 T4,Free
    42 T4,Total
    43 reverse T3 (rT3)
    44 TSH
    45 Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Better if you could do Genova Diagnostics
    Comprehensive Thyroid Panel
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Get good blood test;
    see my list post #44
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-...oodtest-2.html
    pick from it.

    Att least get
    Estrodial
    DHT
    from my list
    =========================
    Nexium & Androgel is expensive.
    Betaine and t shots are inexpensive and usually works better.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Why are you on Nexium.
    Acid reflux - been on it for ~5 years. I'll read up on that post.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    You need at least 10gram Androgel/day
    Why do I need 10 grams per day?

  7. JanSz - no doubt you are one of the kings when it comes to vast knowledge on trt, but I think this guy wants to get off trt, hes only 22 years old.

    Would hcg or something else help him to return to his normal(whatever that may be) levels better than his doc making him stop cold turkey again like the two times before?
    PHF Rep


  8. Quote Originally Posted by solguy View Post
    Acid reflux - been on it for ~5 years. I'll read up on that post.



    Why do I need 10 grams per day?
    Look into working on digestion.
    nexium is a bandaid medicine for poor lifesyle andf dietary habits. Control ones life can reduce ones medications significantly. Simple getting to bed early, stop playing medical dr on the internet and let the professionals handle it, Get some damn sun for atleast and hour a day. Proper nutrient ratios are essential for recovery..

  9. Quote Originally Posted by solguy View Post
    Acid reflux - been on it for ~5 years. I'll read up on that post.



    Why do I need 10 grams per day?
    Your BioAvailable Testosterone is low.
    ----------------
    I am puzzled by your high LH and FSH while on Androgel.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Your BioAvailable Testosterone is low.
    ----------------
    I am puzzled by your high LH and FSH while on Androgel.
    What about HCG? Should I just be on Androgel, or a combination of the two? My goal is to get off of all the drugs.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by solguy View Post
    What about HCG? Should I just be on Androgel, or a combination of the two? My goal is to get off of all the drugs.
    Good idea.
    Why do not you get off everything, medicine, vitamins, any supplements, anything that is not (simple not highly processed) food.
    stay that way for 4-5 months,
    do extensive testing.

    You will have better chance of finding what is actually wrong with you, if anything.
    ------------------------------
    testing (when you are clean and ready):

    Quest Diagnostics:
    my blood test list

    Genova Diagnostics:
    NutrEval
    Comprehensive Thyroid panel
    EstroEssence Complete 24 hr

    TestosteroneNation, this article:
    TESTOSTERONE NATION

  12. Quote Originally Posted by RoadBlocK View Post
    JanSz - no doubt you are one of the kings when it comes to vast knowledge on trt, but I think this guy wants to get off trt, hes only 22 years old.

    Would hcg or something else help him to return to his normal(whatever that may be) levels better than his doc making him stop cold turkey again like the two times before?
    That is the way I would go. If you want to transition from TRT to natural then HCG would be the logical bridge IMO.
    Toughest challenge for solguy will be to find a good doc to help him achieve transition. I would not have too much confidence in current doc who put 19 year old (with lower but still decent T) on AndroGel for 3 years. WTF??

  13. Quote Originally Posted by solguy View Post
    He said that I should try the Androgel for a while and there is a good chance that my body will "learn" that I feel better on that and it will up my natural production.
    This statement would make me worry about your doc. I am not a doctor but I believe most in this forum would tell you the exact opposite is true. Introducing Androgel to the body only surpresses natural T production. That is when the HCG alone would have possibly been a much better choice.
  14. Unbreakable
    David Dunn's Avatar

    I am no expert either but it does seem odd that after so long his LH is still as high as it was. Is it an AndroGel absorption issue?
    The fool says in his heart “There is no God."

    I vehemently support your right to take offense to anything I post.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Good idea.
    Why do not you get off everything, medicine, vitamins, any supplements, anything that is not (simple not highly processed) food.
    stay that way for 4-5 months,
    do extensive testing.

    You will have better chance of finding what is actually wrong with you, if anything.
    ------------------------------
    testing (when you are clean and ready):

    Quest Diagnostics:
    my blood test list

    Genova Diagnostics:
    NutrEval
    Comprehensive Thyroid panel
    EstroEssence Complete 24 hr

    TestosteroneNation, this article:
    TESTOSTERONE NATION
    I agree with you. At 22 he should get off everything and reestablish his baselines. He should also consult with at least one other doctor. It isn't right for any of us to recommend his treatment.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    I agree with you. At 22 he should get off everything and reestablish his baselines. He should also consult with at least one other doctor. It isn't right for any of us to recommend his treatment.
    Thank you.

    He is currently on Nexium.
    That robs him of many nutrients.

    In my previus post I forgot to mention that I am able to deal with my hearthburn by sleeping on reclined bed (last 15 years or so).

    I started using Betaine HCL recently.
    Almost immediately my bloating after meal stopped.
    At one point I will make attempt to go back to sleeping on a flat bed.

  17. [QUOTE=JanSz;1279877]Thank you.

    He is currently on Nexium.
    That robs him of many nutrients.


    That's a good observation. It's normal for people our age or older to have declining hormone values, but these kids could be dealing with lack of nutrition and environmental changes.

    In our day men had higher testosterone levels. Knowing the importance of hormones the government's lack of concern disturbs me. I don't know if you saw the movie "Children of Men." It showed a future in which the human race was on the verge of extinction because no one could conceive. It's not that far fetched when you consider the average testosterone levels have declined 30% in only two decades.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I am no expert either but it does seem odd that after so long his LH is still as high as it was. Is it an AndroGel absorption issue?
    Last night I ran across Dr. John's website and found his writeup on how to apply AndroGel: http://www.allthingsmale.com/word_do...lyAndrogel.doc

    I've always done it differently - I put it on my fingertips and rubbed it on my arms and abs. I tried his method and noticed that the gel was absorbed much more quickly.

    I had already uh...taken care of some business...before I went to sleep, and I had a wet dream as well. I woke up every half hour all night, and this morning I feel like I'm on speed.

    I'm guessing that I've only been absorbing a fraction of the gel over the past few years.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Thank you.

    He is currently on Nexium.
    That robs him of many nutrients.

    In my previus post I forgot to mention that I am able to deal with my hearthburn by sleeping on reclined bed (last 15 years or so).

    I started using Betaine HCL recently.
    Almost immediately my bloating after meal stopped.
    At one point I will make attempt to go back to sleeping on a flat bed.
    I started experiencing fatigue and other symptoms of low testosterone when I started Nexium. I would like to stop it and see how I feel but I will talk to my gastroenterologist first.

    Man, I'm glad i found this board.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by solguy View Post
    I started experiencing fatigue and other symptoms of low testosterone when I started Nexium. I would like to stop it and see how I feel but I will talk to my gastroenterologist first.

    Man, I'm glad i found this board.
    You may want to spend some time looking thru Genowa Diagnostics site.


    When you say Nexium, I look here:
    Genova Diagnostics

    Patients--->search by symptoms

    listing category results
    Digestive Function
    Abdominal pain may accompany irritable bowel syndrome and imbalances in intestinal microflora.
    View Recommended Test >>
    Nutrition
    Imbalances in essential fats, and certain vitamins, minerals or certain amino acids can contribute to bowel irritation, spasm and pain.
    View Recommended Test >>
    Celiac Disease
    Gluten-mediated immune reactions in the small bowel can induce inflammation and pain in many individuals.
    View Recommended Test >>
    Intestinal Permeability
    Pain in the abdomen may be associated with intestinal irritants that compromise absorption and allow toxins into the system.
    View Recommended Test >>
    Lactose Intolerance
    One of the hallmark symptoms of lactose intolerance is gas production and abdominal cramping.
    View Recommended Test >>
    Bacterial Overgrowth of the Small Intestine
    Bacterial overgrowth in the small bowel may induce inflammation and abdominal pain.
    View Recommended Test >>
    Parasite Infection
    Abdominal pain may be a result of intestinal parasites such as Giardia or Entomoeba histolytica.
    View Recommended Test >>

  21. With people that are of younger age we examine the whole person from top to bottom there past lifestyle, chemical exposures, nutritional evalution, complete hormone panel test which normal drs will not even explore. 9 times out of 10 simple lifestlye changes and nutrient balancing all that needs to be made to return there body back to homostasis. In this process we would attempt to restart the HPTA with LH stimulators. IF LH is high then something could be blocking the primary receptors name altered estrogen metabolites or other factors. Looking at the person as a whole entitiy and not bits and pieces is the proper way a patient issue should be approach. Not just "oh low testosterone" they slap you on androgel and send you on merry way and you feel great for 2 weeks then 3 weeks you feel like crap. Then the dr sends you to a shrink because they are too lazy to further investigate other underlying issues.
  

  
 

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