TRT for 19 Year Old. Need Help!

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    Unhappy TRT for 19 Year Old. Need Help!


    Hi, i'm interested in getting TRT because last few times i've had it tested it was in the lowest normal range both times were testing in the morning where i should be having the highest T levels of the day. I have also been diagnosed with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis where anti-bodies are attacking the thyroid mistakely. So for my hypothyroidism i'm also taking 100mg of Thyroxine (T4) daily for life. The T4 hasn't help much in improving my T levels but i feel a lot better than before.

    Im about 6"2, 106kgs guessing about 18% BF, This is my second year of bodybuilding training, training all the bodyparts once a week 3 to 4 times a week (12 sets for larger bodyparts, 8 sets for smaller bodyparts)

    Monday - Shoulders, Calves, Traps
    Wednesday - Quads & Hams
    Friday - Chest & Biceps
    Saturday - Back & Triceps

    Cardio: Post-workout 20-30min low-mod intensity. I tried doing HIIT cardio twice a week on off days but it simply exhausted me so much i wasn't able to weight train on the other days.

    Calories are about 2200-2400 a day for cutting. My maintainence is 3000.

    Eating 6 meals a day every 2.5-3 hours. First Four Meals are Protein and Carb Meals last two are Protein & Fat Meals, no cheat meals I only eat clean.

    Supplementing with: Concentrated fish oils 4 capsules a day (2500mg DHA, 500mg EPA), Flaxseed Oil 2-3 Tablespoons a day. Glutamine 15g a day, Vitamin C 2g a day, ZMA, Protein, Vitargo (Post-workout).

    My latest blood tests:
    (Blood test done in the early morning in a fasting state)

    Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) - 7.72 High 1-5 being normal
    Free Thyroxine (T4) - 15.0
    Triiodothyroxine Free (T3) - 5.2
    Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) - 5.4 *
    Luteinising Hormone (LH) - 1.9 *
    Prolactin = 105
    Testosterone - 11.5 normal being 8 - 26 nmol/L
    DHEAS - 4.5 *
    Growth Hormone - 5.4
    IGF-1 - 41.5

    Immunology

    Thyroglobulin Antibodies - 48 *
    Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies - 2069 Very High

    (all i see is an asterix next to a few of these results don't know what they mean the endo said its all normal lol yeah right!, and he didn't give me any info on what the normal ranges of the other hormones are or in what units they are measured in... hopefully some of you guys have a clue if anything is low etc) He said my Testosterone would improve with the Thyroxine... but its not doing anything.

    My symptoms are as follows though a few of these things have improved a bit from the T4 but not much:

    - Hair growth is scarse, facial hair grows only on the lower part of the jaw, very little hair growth.
    - No sex drive.
    - Sleeping long hours unable to wake up till I've slept at least 10 hours waking up earlier leaves me fatigued and exhausted throughout the rest of the day
    - Fatigue
    - Sometimes feeling exhausted especially after training.
    - Joint paint in the knuckles and sometimes in the knees.
    - Gain weight easily despite consistent diet, weight training and cardio, can't lose bodyfat.
    - Hair is brittle and falls out easily
    - Waking up in the middle of the night frequently with an appetite
    - Can get extremely bad water retention in the abdominal, lower back and inner thigh area.
    - Not gaining enough muscle mass, not getting stronger or bigger.


    The biggest issue i'm having is in trying to lose bodyfat its extremely difficult almost impossible, i shouldn't be having this much trouble losing weight/getting lean at my age.

    If the doctor doesn't help me i'm going to do a Test/Tren cycle for 10 weeks. 500mg of Test E for 10 weeks and 200mg of Tren E for 8 weeks as well as Armidex with Clomid and Nolva post cycle therapy.

    Any help would be great, I'm hoping to get my life back on track as this condition has screwed me up and decreased my quality of life tremendously.

    Is their anything else i could get tested? Would TRT be appropriate? or any other form of treatment?

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    You need to see another doctor. DO NOT DO STERIODS NOW. Once you get your system normal you will be able to train more effectively and progress. Doing steriods now will only send to many variables into the mix and make it hard for a doctor to help you long term.
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    PM me. I didn't read your post (no time right now) but I'm 19 and have been on TRT for about 3 monhts. I can probably answer some of your questions.


    quick edit: I'll reply to your post here as soon as I get the time. For now, do *not* do a steroid cycle. TRT is fine.
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    I have low LH as well as low DHEA which i think could be a sign of adrenal fatigue. Im looking into Nebido a long acting testosterone which is only injected once ever 12 weeks also. Could i get DHEA? would this help with my possible adrenal fatigue? i have abused stimulants like clenbuterol/albuterol and i think that got me into a whole other situation with adrenal fatigue. Any advice for medications dealing with adrenal burnout?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMX View Post
    I have low LH as well as low DHEA which i think could be a sign of adrenal fatigue. Im looking into Nebido a long acting testosterone which is only injected once ever 12 weeks also. Could i get DHEA? would this help with my possible adrenal fatigue? i have abused stimulants like clenbuterol/albuterol and i think that got me into a whole other situation with adrenal fatigue. Any advice for medications dealing with adrenal burnout?
    Never even heard of nebido. Not a single time, and this is after about a year of browsing these types of forums non-stop.

    Adrenal fatigue is junk. It does not exist. I used to think it did until I dwelled deeper into the research and found out it's mostly a bunch of pseudoscience and BS conjecture that has bits of truth here and there. I tried the hydrocortisone+armour route myself last year and all the HC did (all three different times I tried it thinking it would finally work) is a big ****ing ulcer that I still have to this day. Forget about the saliva testing and all that junk. If your thyroid is malfunctioning, then a good panel of bloodwork will show it so then get that fixed first. I'm doing fine on 1grain of Armour daily. At 19, there is no way in HELL that you could have "burned out" your adrenal glands to the point where they'd need up to 1 year to heal. I've heard of insane mothers on the former STTM forums giving their 3-4 year old daughters their overseas-pharmacy-purshased HC thinking THEY might have "adrenal fatigue". These women should be shot. Sheer lunacy.

    Assuming all the preliminaries are in order ( good diet, rest and not overtraining ), and your bloodwork shows consistently low levels of T, then you are a candidate for TRT. Just plow through as many endos and docs as you can until you find one that is a) knowledgeable. b) open minded c) knows what the **** hes doing and d) is willing to tweak and do follow-up tests.

    You're gonna get a bunch of people on your journey telling you that you're crazy, you're just 19. Your test is through the roof, etc. etc. but if you feel like **** and have all the symptoms, then there's no need to argue them. Like I said, just plow through until someone is truly willing to help.

    One last word of advice is do not go about this alone. You will **** yourself up. I don't care how smart you think you are, at 19, we simply are not ready to embark upon such a thing all by ourselves even though there may be some help online. By this, I mean, don't order ANY meds online and then follow the advice of some people on the internet.

    Get a knowledgeable doc. that is the point I'm trying to make. Good luck.
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    Thanks Bungaloid. Im looking for a good doctor right now, i know ill find a good knowledgeable doc just gota keep looking. my diet is good right now trying to take in plenty of EFA's from flaxseed and udo's oil, plenty of protein and minimal carbs, i honestly feel sick of eating any carb foods right now. I was previously training to failuire every single workout for plenty of sets and overtraining. Im now training smarter, shorter sessions 1 hour maximum doing 3 full body workouts a week
    instead of the split training i usually do.

    Im on thyroxine right now, but im considering switching to Armour. Nebido is a new therapy i think only available in the US at the moment just search nebido testosterone injections on google and theyll be plenty of info on it. I was about to get the saliva testing done etc. but since you say it wont do anything i wont. But i honestly have all the symptoms of adrenal fatigue but this is just probably hypothyroidism and hypogonadism.

    I do really feel like ****. Cant wake up in the morning, lost motivation to train, weight gain despite eating calorie controlled diet, im unable to function, muscle mass declining, this isn't fair but hopefully it'll get better soon, i want to become a bodybuilder and start competing in shows its my lifelong dream.

    I've heard its good to use an AI like armidex with your TRT treatment making it more effective is this true? Also would HCG be used with TRT?

    and what do you think of anti-aging clincs?

    Where you always on armour or did you switch from thyroxine to armour? and how do you feel generally on the armour?
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    Where do you live. Are you willing to fly to get an initial consultation with a good doctor or do you want to keep searching locally......and then eventually fly to see one of the good doctors?
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    I just started looking for doctors. So far ive only seen one endocrinologist so i think ill find a doctor. Im in Sydney, Australia by the way. Why do you think adrenal fatigue is bull? Im honestly not really responding to T4 im taking and will switch to Armour as soon as possible, im going to get a cortisol test done as well to see how the adrenas are doing, if my cortisol is low which i suspect then the thyroid won't work. I get hypoglycaemia symptoms if a don't eat and after workouts if i dont eat right away as well as when i stand up suddenly i feel dizzy/lightheaded, waking up frequently during the night ever night, cant wake up refreshed, tired and sluggish in the morning all a sign of low cortisol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMX View Post
    I just started looking for doctors. So far ive only seen one endocrinologist so i think ill find a doctor. Im in Sydney, Australia by the way. Why do you think adrenal fatigue is bull? Im honestly not really responding to T4 im taking and will switch to Armour as soon as possible, im going to get a cortisol test done as well to see how the adrenas are doing, if my cortisol is low which i suspect then the thyroid won't work. I get hypoglycaemia symptoms if a don't eat and after workouts if i dont eat right away as well as when i stand up suddenly i feel dizzy/lightheaded, waking up frequently during the night ever night, cant wake up refreshed, tired and sluggish in the morning all a sign of low cortisol.
    Have it done at least once,
    complete thyroid panel,
    so you know where you actualy stand with your thyroid.

    T3 Free
    T3 uptake
    T3,Total
    T4,Free
    T4,Total
    TSH
    Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)

    Then try to classify your case per attached table:

    also read this:

    DHEA Restoration Therapy Updated: 01/19/2006
    http://www.lef.org/protocols/metabol...oration_01.htm


    Male Hormone Restoration Updated: 07/17/2006
    http://www.lef.org/protocols/male_re...oration_01.htm


    Thyroid Regulation Updated: 04/20/2006

    http://www.lef.org/protocols/metabol...ulation_01.htm
    .
    .
    .
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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    Ive already had the tests done for:

    Thyroglobulin Antibodies - 48 *
    Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies - 2069 Very High

    And i'm pretty sure the hypothyroidism is from Hasimoto's Thyroditis an autoimmune disorders (antibodies attacking the thyroid).

    How about a test for Reverse T3?

    Some other info that could help. About 3 years ago i was about 126kgs pretty overweight. I then within about a year went down to 70-75kgs pretty skinny, i wasn't anorexic but close. I then went up to normal slowly where i am now with bodybuilding. I was also training intenstly with weights back then as i am now.

    Some interesting piece of info i found:

    Gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH)

    GnRH is a peptide of 10 amino acids. Its secretion at the onset of puberty triggers sexual development and from then on it is essential for normal sexual physiology of both males and females.

    In both sexes, its secretion occurs in periodic pulses usually occurring every 1–2 hours.

    Primary Effects
    - FSH and LH Up

    Secondary Effects
    - estrogen and progesterone Up (in females)
    - testosterone Up (in males)

    After puberty, a hyposecretion of GnRH may result from

    intense physical training
    anorexia nervosa


    Could this be the cause of my problems hyposecretion of GnRH causing the Low T. I clearly have low LH levels which i think this could be the cause and being underweight for a period of time.

    I'm thinking to get Free T, Estrogen( which i think is low im having headaches, joint pain and hot flashes), Estradiol, SHBG and TBG done as well as the cortisol. The complete thyroid panel is a good idea anyway.

    Now what are the tests i can do so i know the cause of the Low T?

    Thanks for those Links Jan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMX View Post
    Ive already had the tests done for:

    Thyroglobulin Antibodies - 48 *
    Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies - 2069 Very High

    And i'm pretty sure the hypothyroidism is from Hasimoto's Thyroditis an autoimmune disorders (antibodies attacking the thyroid).

    How about a test for Reverse T3?

    Some other info that could help. About 3 years ago i was about 126kgs pretty overweight. I then within about a year went down to 70-75kgs pretty skinny, i wasn't anorexic but close. I then went up to normal slowly where i am now with bodybuilding. I was also training intenstly with weights back then as i am now.

    Some interesting piece of info i found:

    Gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH)

    GnRH is a peptide of 10 amino acids. Its secretion at the onset of puberty triggers sexual development and from then on it is essential for normal sexual physiology of both males and females.

    In both sexes, its secretion occurs in periodic pulses usually occurring every 1–2 hours.

    Primary Effects
    - FSH and LH Up

    Secondary Effects
    - estrogen and progesterone Up (in females)
    - testosterone Up (in males)

    After puberty, a hyposecretion of GnRH may result from

    intense physical training
    anorexia nervosa


    Could this be the cause of my problems hyposecretion of GnRH causing the Low T. I clearly have low LH levels which i think this could be the cause and being underweight for a period of time.

    I'm thinking to get Free T, Estrogen( which i think is low im having headaches, joint pain and hot flashes), Estradiol, SHBG and TBG done as well as the cortisol. The complete thyroid panel is a good idea anyway.

    Now what are the tests i can do so i know the cause of the Low T?

    Thanks for those Links Jan.
    Rarely we see someone with "clean" low T and no other problems.

    Before you know it at least these are involved

    Adrenals
    thyroid
    androgens
    lipids
    metabolism
    liver

    when I started pilling up test after test after test I did ended up with list that I post on my post #44
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    You are welcome to pick and choose or do all at once,
    it is your health and you resources.
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    Yeah i assumed those things all have to do with my low T. The hypothyroidism my dad has hes on T4 like me so i assume thats hereditary, he also had low T in his life. When i was born i was born premature 1 month and also when born i was bright yellow, im not sure but its something to do with bilirubin and liver problems. I've had highly elevated AST and ALT im my recent blood test and am seeing a liver specialist as well to rule out any liver problems. Ive also had a glucose tolerance test done geting the results of that soon so i know if i have insulin resistance which is quite possible with the Low T. I want to get on TRT as soon as possible.

    Im sure i have problems with my liver, thyroid and metabolism. I think i might have problems with my adrenals. My LDL and HDL are generally normal but my triglycerides are very low....
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    Heya, I've just skimmed your posts and you said you are in Sydney?! I'm in Sydney too. I've found one good doc thats willing to listen and experiment.
    Dr. Michael Elstein
    you can get his practice locations at
    http://www.eternalhealth.org/
    After seeing a lot of crappy endos, and thinking all is lost, I found him and is finally feeling better. As you said, you should really get your adrenals checked out. Its basically adrenals then tyroid then other stuff and finally T
    PM me and I can tell you about him
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    OMG eric your a lifesaver!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMX View Post
    OMG eric your a lifesaver!!!
    hehe, np. I hate crappy endos that thinks they know everything esp. those that dont know how the pathway works. "ie. ultra low cholestrol is great! everyone would be happy if their cholestorl is that low!'

    I just p.m.ed you
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