41 yrs old - TRT or Continue Cycling??

[greekgod639]

Hi everyone. I've been reading/researching on here for years, but never posted. A lot of great info here. I'm 41 yrs old, married and have 5 kids. I run my own business. I've been cycling on and off for a little over 10 years. Not every year, but probably 7 cycles over that time span. Most recently, I ran a 10 week Test Cyp/Prop blend at 250mg per week divided in 3 shots per week. I used Mk-2866 for the first 6 weeks. The cycle was great, probably one of my best. I was strict with diet and in the gym. I looked the best (and felt the best) I had since my 20s. I was also very productive at work.

The issue now is that after my last 2 to 3 cycles with proper PCT, I just don't bounce back the same. I know this is not unusual and did expect it at some point. Everything is functioning fine, strength is good, staying lean, no ED problems, libido is okay. However, as I'm sure everyone will agree, I just feel way better while I'm on. But 2 weeks after this last PCT, my Total T was at 560 ng/dL and Free T was 74 pg/mL. I'm fairly certain that with these levels I will not be able to be prescribed TRT.

I'm, honestly, not 100% certain I want to be on TRT. I keep going back and forth. I keep thinking: "Why not get on TRT, feel great all the time and love my life?" or keep cycling on and off and feel great for 10-15 weeks per year and then like **** through PCT and a few weeks after only to bounce back at 75%?

So, I'm looking for some thoughts, opinions, and suggestions from those of you who began TRT around my age. Was it worth it? Any complications? Are you glad you began? Do you regret it? Should I wait longer? Would I even be able to be Rx'd TRT? Thanks a lot for your time gentlemen.

 

[Power-Lift]

A personal decision for sure, but health, blood-work, family history 'should' come into play when making your decision.
No family history of disease, and real healthy bloods? Then I would keep doing what works for a while. 41 is still young though. I waited 'til 50 to take my first needle/shot, and I just do TRT (100 mg a week) it keeps me in high-normal. When off, I go down to around 300 total-test, and don't feel good. I would suggest keeping your dosing like you do, most people do way too much. And minimize or drop orals at that age. Blood-work is fine and reversible, but it is not the be-all/end-all folks think it is. Heavy gear use will build plaque and atherosclerosis, which is basically irreversible. Your blood-work can show perfect, but a blockage can still happen like it has to many ive known. Keep playing it smart like you are doing, you seem like a thinker and will be fine...

 

[greekgod639]

A personal decision for sure, but health, blood-work, family history 'should' come into play when making your decision.
No family history of disease, and real healthy bloods? Then I would keep doing what works for a while. 41 is still young though. I waited 'til 50 to take my first needle/shot, and I just do TRT (100 mg a week) it keeps me in high-normal. When off, I go down to around 300 total-test, and don't feel good. I would suggest keeping your dosing like you do, most people do way too much. And minimize or drop orals at that age. Blood-work is fine and reversible, but it is not the be-all/end-all folks think it is. Heavy gear use will build plaque and atherosclerosis, which is basically irreversible. Your blood-work can show perfect, but a blockage can still happen like it has to many ive known. Keep playing it smart like you are doing, you seem like a thinker and will be fine...

Thanks Power-Lift. For some reason, I've always had it in my head to wait until at least 50. But then I don't want to be 50 and say that my 40s could have been so much better had I started earlier. When I'm on, my marriage and family life it better. Work is better. It's a quality of life thing at this point. It's not a muscle thing. I generally have no issues maintaining muscle. For me it's all about diet. But when on my diet is very strict. While off, sometimes, I'll cheat. I mean, you gotta live a little, right?

I always get blood work before, during and after. I'm sort of a type-A, so I like to keep an eye on things. My bloods have always been good, with the occasional increase in some items. But, things are fine afterward. No family history of any heart disease, cancer, etc...

Just one question, do you stay on 100 mg/week year round or do you cycle off at points? You mentioned that "When off, I go down to around 300..." When you're off and around 300, how do you feel? Thanks again for your input.

 

[Power-Lift]

I stay on now... I meant before I was on TRT I was at like 300, miserable. Since age 50 (almost 5 years now) I just stay on 100 mgs and do bloods a few times a year just to keep an eye on it. Every disease in the book is in my family history (father and 10 of his siblings all died before age 50 (cancer, heart disease) there were 12 of them, WOW... 2 lived until around age 70. So Im pretty strict about keeping dose low and monitoring, and doing all the extra health-checks. (Stress-echo, calcium score, etc).

 

[sammpedd88]

Hi everyone. I've been reading/researching on here for years, but never posted. A lot of great info here. I'm 41 yrs old, married and have 5 kids. I run my own business. I've been cycling on and off for a little over 10 years. Not every year, but probably 7 cycles over that time span. Most recently, I ran a 10 week Test Cyp/Prop blend at 250mg per week divided in 3 shots per week. I used Mk-2866 for the first 6 weeks. The cycle was great, probably one of my best. I was strict with diet and in the gym. I looked the best (and felt the best) I had since my 20s. I was also very productive at work.

The issue now is that after my last 2 to 3 cycles with proper PCT, I just don't bounce back the same. I know this is not unusual and did expect it at some point. Everything is functioning fine, strength is good, staying lean, no ED problems, libido is okay. However, as I'm sure everyone will agree, I just feel way better while I'm on. But 2 weeks after this last PCT, my Total T was at 560 ng/dL and Free T was 74 pg/mL. I'm fairly certain that with these levels I will not be able to be prescribed TRT.

I'm, honestly, not 100% certain I want to be on TRT. I keep going back and forth. I keep thinking: "Why not get on TRT, feel great all the time and love my life?" or keep cycling on and off and feel great for 10-15 weeks per year and then like **** through PCT and a few weeks after only to bounce back at 75%?

So, I'm looking for some thoughts, opinions, and suggestions from those of you who began TRT around my age. Was it worth it? Any complications? Are you glad you began? Do you regret it? Should I wait longer? Would I even be able to be Rx'd TRT? Thanks a lot for your time gentlemen.

I’ve been on TRT since I was 40. I’ll be 48 in 10 days. My TT levels were 215. I love being on TRT but my recommendation for you would be to do what ever you can get in read your natural production without jumping straight to TRT. There’s several threads on this site that will help you with ideas to do it. A lot of guys use clomid to try to jump start their natural T production. Just my .02 man.

 

[greekgod639]

Thank you both Power-Lift and Sammpedd88. I appreciate your input and wish you both well. I trust you both have no regrets about getting on TRT.

There is a wealth of info on these forums and I feel well versed on the subject. I will continue to research and read. I was just looking for some real-life experiences from guys who may have been in my situation previously and either began TRT or just remained natural to add to my research. After this last cycle was the first time I've actually considered TRT. I have a couple of colleagues who are on and they are so grateful they started. They are both in their late 40s, though. Again, it's the thought that life could be so much more enjoyable provided health remains well. Thanks again guys.

If anyone else out there has anything to add, please let me know.

 

[Whisky]

Yeah would echo what the fine gents above me have said. Im a touch younger than you at 39 but I just blast and cruise at the moment (but I keep my cruise like trt doses).

I also wouldn’t get prescribed trt the last time
I came off (might do when I next come off) but basically decided that if I was smart with it then I could mitigate a lot of the health risks and for me the benefits I get being high range vs being off make it worth doing

but I’m cool with trt and fully accepting I’ll be on that soon, there are a lot of things you could try to boost your natural levels back up a bit.....

- reduce cortisol (5 kids and a business sounds stressful?)

- red light therapy (literally you shine it on your balls)

- vit d

- improve sleep (loads of hacks for this)

- zinc

- avoiding some natural estrogens and alcohol

etc

Just based on what you’ve said I would go that route first and see if you can increase your levels naturally to a point you feel good.

 

[thebigt]

i don't regret being on trt, but it can be a literal pain in the ass.

 

[greekgod639]

Thanks guys. I'm a little more than 3 weeks post PCT and, as I usually do, I'm working on increasing natural test. I always use V. D3, multivitamin, fish oil, protein shakes year round. This time around I've added M-Test, Reduce XT and Sustain Alpha to my PCT protocol and I'm continuing it now for another couple of weeks. My life is stressful, that's for sure. Over the past 5 or so years, I've really focused on reducing stress. I put a huge amount of time and sleepless nights getting my business up to where it is today. But over the past few years, I've been able to back off a bit and focus on my family and health. I've pretty much cut out alcohol. I'll have a few drinks or glasses of wine on occasion. Plus, I actually started to meditate, which I never thought I'd consider before. It is actually very helpful.

After this last cycle has been the most challenging time I've experienced getting back to "normal". I know it hasn't been too long since PCT, but usually, I bounce back in no time. I guess this is 40s, huh? But, it hasn't been terrible. Like I mentioned earlier, everything is pretty good - strength, endurance, muscle size, fat, etc.. Erections are not as strong as before, but that's expected. This usually gets better with time. Libido is on the lower end, especially compared to the libido boost while running 250 mg/week of T cyp. But, again, that is expected and gets better with time. I'd say the main issue is libido. My wife is awesome and our marriage is great. It is better while I'm on cycle, though - bedroom being the key here, but generally our sex life is always great. She knows all about my cycles and trusts my research and decisions.

I just wonder whether I should be going through the PCT and other supplementation to get natural test levels and libido back up, or begin TRT. I can see how it can be a "pain in the ass", but in an odd way, I always look forward to injections. I was on a 3 times a week protocol and took no issue with it. I really do not like clomid or tamoxifen, but find it necessary from past experiences to get things back up and running.

My main concern is if the ups and downs of all hormones, emotions and libido from cycling, PCT, supplements and off time is worse than just having consistently high-normal test levels with TRT. Feel free to provide some input on this concern.

Again, many thanks for all your input. It is really great to have a forum like this to get others' opinions, experiences, and points of view.

 

[marcink99]

Have you tried taking clomid and staying on it for few months? Maybe you could do clomid as TRT and see what happens.

 

[beefyfan]

Cycle (Test) 10-12 weeks
PCT 4-8 weeks
MK-677/GW-50516 12-16 weeks
Repeat

That's my unprofessional recommendation.

 

[greekgod639]

Thanks guys. I always use clomid during PCT, but never tried it for longer periods as TRT. I, generally, don't like how I feel while taking clomid, but through experience, know that it works to restore my T production post cycle. My T levels usually bounce back within a month or so after PCT (+/- 650 TT), but I feel much, much better with levels at 850+.

To anyone who has tried or been Rx'd clomid for TRT, would clomid for a few months bring my T levels up that high? Thanks.

 

[greekgod639]

Cycle (Test) 10-12 weeks
PCT 4-8 weeks
MK-677/GW-50516 12-16 weeks
Repeat

That's my unprofessional recommendation.

Thank you. This is pretty much what I have been doing, with the exception of MK-677 & GW. I was actually doing a lot of research on MK and may add it to my off time now. GW sounds great, but I need to research it a bit more.

One question beefyfan: In your suggestion, are you recommending to "Repeat" right at the conclusion of the MK & GW 12-16 run? In other words, no time in between MK & GW and Test Cycle? Thanks again.

 

[Whisky]

Thank you. This is pretty much what I have been doing, with the exception of MK-677 & GW. I was actually doing a lot of research on MK and may add it to my off time now. GW sounds great, but I need to research it a bit more.

One question beefyfan: In your suggestion, are you recommending to "Repeat" right at the conclusion of the MK & GW 12-16 run? In other words, no time in between MK & GW and Test Cycle? Thanks again.

neither mk and gw are suppressive so you can run them between cycles no problems and you can go straight from that into test (or overlap if you want)

but in terms of the whole 12-16 week gap, you are already not recovering as quick, the less time you allow between cycles the less time your body spends at homeostasis (if it even gets back to normal in that time - can take 6 months plus) then the less likely it is to recover fully after the next one.

so based on what you’ve said, I would either take way more time between cycles (like maybe do one 12 week cycle a year at most) or accept your heading to try and blast and cruise until you can get on a script.

im not advising either option, just highlighting that the middle option of 12-16 weeks inbetween cycles will, because of your individual circumstances, now hasten your path to trt anyway.

 

[marcink99]

Thanks guys. I always use clomid during PCT, but never tried it for longer periods as TRT. I, generally, don't like how I feel while taking clomid, but through experience, know that it works to restore my T production post cycle. My T levels usually bounce back within a month or so after PCT (+/- 650 TT), but I feel much, much better with levels at 850+.

To anyone who has tried or been Rx'd clomid for TRT, would clomid for a few months bring my T levels up that high? Thanks.

My guess is that clomid side effects are from the higher dosages you took. You could do 25mg every other day for 2 months and see what happens. Also as a person that runs their own business I noticed that from time to time I need "me days" where I take a day off go get massage and just relax and not think about work.

 

[beefyfan]

Thank you. This is pretty much what I have been doing, with the exception of MK-677 & GW. I was actually doing a lot of research on MK and may add it to my off time now. GW sounds great, but I need to research it a bit more.

One question beefyfan: In your suggestion, are you recommending to "Repeat" right at the conclusion of the MK & GW 12-16 run? In other words, no time in between MK & GW and Test Cycle? Thanks again.

I would go by feel. If you feel like ****, repeat right away. If you still feel good, maybe do a 4-8 week cycle of natural boosters/performance enhancers, etc. The longer you can go between probably the better.

 

[greekgod639]

I absolutely need some “me days”. I’ll try to work those in.

I usually feel pretty good after PCT and better and better weeks/months after. Presently, I feel great. Libido has bounced back a bit and workouts are great. Muscles and body are not as tight/hard as when on, but that’s nothing unusual.

I’ll give the clomid EOD a shot and see how it works and how I feel. I’m getting blood work next week to know where I stand currently and will after the clomid run. I’ll share later.

A friend who runs TRT recommended clomid too, but suggested to stack it with proviron. He suggested one 12 week test cycle a year, and after PCT and some time off, run the clomid/proviron in lieu of a second cycle. He said the proviron would provide the on feeling of well being, increase libido & free T while clomid should increase natural test. I have no experience with proviron but understand it’s minimally suppressive. I’ve read up on it and found conflicting info. Most info was about proviron with TRT. Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[marcink99]

I absolutely need some “me days”. I’ll try to work those in.

I usually feel pretty good after PCT and better and better weeks/months after. Presently, I feel great. Libido has bounced back a bit and workouts are great. Muscles and body are not as tight/hard as when on, but that’s nothing unusual.

I’ll give the clomid EOD a shot and see how it works and how I feel. I’m getting blood work next week to know where I stand currently and will after the clomid run. I’ll share later.

A friend who runs TRT recommended clomid too, but suggested to stack it with proviron. He suggested one 12 week test cycle a year, and after PCT and some time off, run the clomid/proviron in lieu of a second cycle. He said the proviron would provide the on feeling of well being, increase libido & free T while clomid should increase natural test. I have no experience with proviron but understand it’s minimally suppressive. I’ve read up on it and found conflicting info. Most info was about proviron with TRT. Thoughts?

Thanks!

If I was you I would just go with pure clomid cycle. My understanding is that since you would be taking clomid as TRT alternative you would not need to cycle it.

 

[greekgod639]

Thanks marcink99.
To anyone who has tried a clomid TRT protocol, did it increase your libido to the near a level as a small dose of TRT? I've come across conflicting reports. I've seen situations where clomid may increase Total/Free T, but there was no corresponding increase in libido.
PCT with clomid/nolva always kills my libido. Hence the reason I considered TRT as opposed to clomid.
Thoughts? Thanks again.

 

[beefyfan]

I really like clomid and have never had any adverse reactions. Nolva on the other hand killed my dick. I like ralox better than nolva too.

I've seen some guys on clomid trt whose estradiol while not "high" is on the higher end of normal. I wonder what a protocol of taking 25mg's of clomid M-W-F & maybe 12.5mg's of aromasin on Sunday? Or even halving the aromasin to 6.25mg's on Sunday?