My clomid results-- good

LeanGuy

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I just got the results back from my one week clomid test, and it looks promising.

Before clomid:

LH 2.3
FSH 2.4
TOTAL-T 264
FREE-T 6.6
ESTRADIOL 24.5

After clomid (7 x 25mg):

LH 5.2
FSH 3.3
TOTAL-T 594
FREE-T 18.59
ESTRADIOL 28.5

I'll be continuing on 25mg 3x week for 8 weeks. As long as my levels maintain once I stop, I'm golden. Now if I could only solve my insomnia........
 
LeanGuy

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My E2 didn't go up much, but does anyone think it's still too high? What is optimal? Should I run an AI along with clomid, or afterward? If I can't get a script, what is the most effective OTC AI? 6-OXO doesn't seem to reduce E2 levels very much. Maybe chrysin or formestane does a better job?
 
JanSz

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My E2 didn't go up much, but does anyone think it's still too high? What is optimal? Should I run an AI along with clomid, or afterward? If I can't get a script, what is the most effective OTC AI? 6-OXO doesn't seem to reduce E2 levels very much. Maybe chrysin or formestane does a better job?
ESTRADIOL 28.5

Assuming that you tested at Quest and done the correct test,
28.5 would be wery close to ideal number of 29.

Dr John insist on this test:
Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)

Estradiol (Males (Adult): < or = 29 pg/mL)
--------------
I add one more to the above:

Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)

Estradiol (Males (Adult): < or = 29 pg/mL)

Estradiol, Free (Males (Adult): < or = 0.45 pg/mL )
-------------------------
---------------------------------
I have made up my own goals:
Estradiol, Free (0.6 - 0.7)pg/mL )
Estradiol=29 pg/mL
---------------------------------
I like FreeE2 because of the note Quest posts there:
Quest Diagnostics: Test Menu

Clinical Significance:

Much of Estradiol is bound to proteins. The unbound
portion and Estradiol bound to proteins with low affinity
reflect the Free concentration. The Free Estradiol may
better correlate with medical conditions than the Total
Estradiol concentrations.
-----------------------------------
I use LiquiDex for my E2 adjustments.

Small dose, accurately measured, EOD.
 

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LeanGuy: any negatives from the clomid so far?

I am considering it recently and your numbers are impressive.
 
LeanGuy

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LeanGuy: any negatives from the clomid so far?

I am considering it recently and your numbers are impressive.
None so far. Loving it... and loving her (my wife) if you know what I mean ;)
 

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Why only 3x per week? I am starting a similar protocol and was wondering what the proper dosing would be. Do you take it with food and at night as well?
 
LeanGuy

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Why only 3x per week? I am starting a similar protocol and was wondering what the proper dosing would be. Do you take it with food and at night as well?
I am not sure... I am going to break the tablets and take 12.5mg every night w/ food.
 
Beau

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I've heard accounts of increased emotions w/ clomid. Does your experience support this?
 
LeanGuy

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I've heard accounts of increased emotions w/ clomid. Does your experience support this?
Not so far, but I'm only 2 weeks in. I think most sides occur when people take too high of a dose.
 

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I've heard accounts of increased emotions w/ clomid. Does your experience support this?
I'm on clomid right now as well. I can tell you that after several weeks of usage, you do tend to get much more emotional.

I'm kinda in the same boat...on clomid, my total test levels went from 183ng/dl to something like 605ng/dl. I'm worried that as soon as I come off, my levels will plummet again. The doc wants me off cold turkey as well.
 
Trevor Miller

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The increased emotions on prolonged Clomid use alone probably coincide with increased estrogen levels. This is why an ultrasensative estradiol level is so important to include in your lab work.
 

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The increased emotions on prolonged Clomid use alone probably coincide with increased estrogen levels. This is why an ultrasensative estradiol level is so important to include in your lab work.
Can you provide a reference? I'm not saying you're making it up, but I've heard of folks using clomid to keep estrogen down.
 
LeanGuy

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The increased emotions on prolonged Clomid use alone probably coincide with increased estrogen levels. This is why an ultrasensative estradiol level is so important to include in your lab work.
The way I understand it... clomid IS a weak estrogen and it plugs the estradiol receptors in the hypothalamus, making it unable to detect enough estradiol in your system. As a response, it tells the pituitary to increase FSH/LH knowing that some of the testosterone will aromatize into estradiol. So I guess eventually it does increase estradiol, but probably not much.

I think the emotions are more from the estrogen effects of the clomid itself, and should go away after it leaves your system (apx. 5 days). Fortuntately I haven't had this side effect yet... I am 2 weeks in. I told my wife to watch out for male PMS... LOL
 
heebs10

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The way I understand it... clomid IS a weak estrogen and it plugs the estradiol receptors in the hypothalamus, making it unable to detect enough estradiol in your system. As a response, it tells the pituitary to increase FSH/LH knowing that some of the testosterone will aromatize into estradiol. So I guess eventually it does increase estradiol, but probably not much.

I think the emotions are more from the estrogen effects of the clomid itself, and should go away after it leaves your system (apx. 5 days). Fortuntately I haven't had this side effect yet... I am 2 weeks in. I told my wife to watch out for male PMS... LOL
good post dude. i think your right on as this is the same way i understood this. you also answered the question someone asked earlier in the thread, 'why only 3 days a week'....because of the long half life of the serm. just pointing that out for whoever asked that before.
 
heebs10

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I've heard accounts of increased emotions w/ clomid. Does your experience support this?
i believe this is most common with high doses, over 100mg. although it could be possible with extended use, such as in this case. no personal experience on this though, just based on what i have read.
 
LeanGuy

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Clomid sides!

Ok I am about 6 weeks into my clomid cycle, and now I'm feeling some sides. My sleep has gotten worse (very shallow, unrefreshing), and I'm not "feeling" the testosterone as much anymore (ie. weaker libido and erections). I know its working, because my boyz are bigger, good gains in the gym, upper body acne, etc.

I would be kinda bummed out, but I remember you guys saying this is normal due to the estrogenic effects of the clomid. Is that right? Am I going to feel a nice libido rush when done? In a couple of weeks I'm due for my post-clomid labs and I can see if my actual E2 is up, and might need an AI.
 
The Matrix

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Clomid is an estrogen it self so it makes it difficult to really track the estrogens. In this case if the clomid challege shows that you are responding well then the next step should be hcg because it does same thing as clomid and also triggers different pathways in the metabolic cascade which has several other benefits as stimualtion to adrenals and so forth. Hcg is easily trackable because it is not an estrogen but an analog that does not mimic estrogen and can fool the test so to speak. Nolvadex in my opionin has alot more benfits over clomid because it acts more directyl on the HPTA axis then clomid does. Just my 2 cents
 
LeanGuy

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In this case if the clomid challege shows that you are responding well then the next step should be hcg because it does same thing as clomid and also triggers different pathways in the metabolic cascade which has several other benefits as stimualtion to adrenals and so forth.
But HCG is a LH analog, suppressive to the HPTA, so unless you want to stay on it forever, it's not useful alone for restarting. If my test levels drop after going off clomid, then I'll consider HCG therapy.
 
LeanGuy

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Ok, I just got my 2 mo. post-clomid bloodwork (done thru Life Extension) and it looks better than I expected. Even though I felt like low-T, it wasn't after all. But I would expect my libido/erections to be better; they are just ok. Any comments appreciated, especially JanSz :)

TOTAL TESTOSTERONE 756 [241-827]
FREE TESTOSTERONE 23.7 [8.7-25.1]
DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE 75 [30-85]
ESTRADIOL 10 [0-53] LOW? **was taking 6-oxo
DHEA-S 386 [120-520]
PREGNENOLONE 100 [20-150]
PROGESTERONE 1.6 [0.3-1.2] HIGH **was using prog cream for sleep, before I knew better
LH 3.6 [1.5-9.3] LOW? **should this be higher after coming off clomid?
FSH 2.8 [1.4-18.1] LOW? **should this be higher after coming off clomid?
PSA 1.7 [0.0-4.0]
TSH 2.3 [.35-5.5]
PROLACTIN 9.8 [2.1-17.7]
SHBG 25 [13-71]
FERRITIN 45 [22-322] LOW? **should I be taking some iron?
VITAMIN-D 75.5 [32-100]
TOTAL CHOLESTEROL 176 [100-199]
HDL CHOLESTEROL 63 [40-59] HIGH
LDL CHOLESTEROL 102 [0-99] HIGH
 
The Matrix

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Ok, I just got my 2 mo. post-clomid bloodwork (done thru Life Extension) and it looks better than I expected. Even though I felt like low-T, it wasn't after all. But I would expect my libido/erections to be better; they are just ok. Any comments appreciated, especially JanSz :)

TOTAL TESTOSTERONE 756 [241-827] GOOD
FREE TESTOSTERONE 23.7 [8.7-25.1]
DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE 75 [30-85]
ESTRADIOL 10 [0-53] LOW? **was taking 6-oxo
DHEA-S 386 [120-520]
PREGNENOLONE 100 [20-150]
PROGESTERONE 1.6 [0.3-1.2] HIGH **was using prog cream for sleep, before I knew better
LH 3.6 [1.5-9.3] LOW? **should this be higher after coming off clomid?
FSH 2.8 [1.4-18.1] LOW? **should this be higher after coming off clomid?
PSA 1.7 [0.0-4.0]
TSH 2.3 [.35-5.5]
PROLACTIN 9.8 [2.1-17.7]
SHBG 25 [13-71]
FERRITIN 45 [22-322] LOW? **should I be taking some iron?
VITAMIN-D 75.5 [32-100]
TOTAL CHOLESTEROL 176 [100-199]
HDL CHOLESTEROL 63 [40-59] HIGH
LDL CHOLESTEROL 102 [0-99] HIGH
I would stop the 6 oxox because it is giving you false readings of what the clomid is really doing if its doing what you even think it is. Run one variable at time..
 
JanSz

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Ok, I just got my 2 mo. post-clomid bloodwork (done thru Life Extension) and it looks better than I expected. Even though I felt like low-T, it wasn't after all. But I would expect my libido/erections to be better; they are just ok. Any comments appreciated, especially JanSz :)

TOTAL TESTOSTERONE 756 [241-827]
FREE TESTOSTERONE 23.7 [8.7-25.1]
DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE 75 [30-85]
ESTRADIOL 10 [0-53] LOW? **was taking 6-oxo

DHEA-S 386 [120-520]
PREGNENOLONE 100 [20-150]
PROGESTERONE 1.6 [0.3-1.2] HIGH **was using prog cream for sleep, before I knew better
LH 3.6 [1.5-9.3] LOW? **should this be higher after coming off clomid?
FSH 2.8 [1.4-18.1] LOW? **should this be higher after coming off clomid?

PSA 1.7 [0.0-4.0]
TSH 2.3 [.35-5.5]
PROLACTIN 9.8 [2.1-17.7]
SHBG 25 [13-71]
FERRITIN 45 [22-322] LOW? **should I be taking some iron?
VITAMIN-D 75.5 [32-100]
TOTAL CHOLESTEROL 176 [100-199]
HDL CHOLESTEROL 63 [40-59] HIGH
LDL CHOLESTEROL 102 [0-99] HIGH

Stop 6-OXO
-------------------------------------------------------
TT=756, SHBG=25
Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator
FreeT=199
not bad, higher than 160, could be better, could be around 300
-------------------------------------------------------

Redo blood test in 2 months.
I am assuming that your E2 will be in right place at that time,
and you should feel much better libido/erections vise.

Big question is:
Do you want to go as is, or you want to add HCG during this two months.

If you do, use EOD, every other day, 500iu or 750iu, your call.

500*7/2=1750iu/week
750*7/2=2625iu/week

Do not use HCG older that 2 - 3 weeks after reconstitution.
==========================================

You could use iron and vit D
==========================================
Get some LiquiDex, so you have it, do not use it, not yet.

.
.
Whatewer changes you plan to do to your routine, get your doctor's permission.
.
.
.
 
corndog

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What to expect from Clomid after Test

My Dr. is taking me off test-e and putting me on Clomid to see if I can start producing good/sctive sperm. Obviously trying to have another kid.

Anyway, my questions are this:

What should I expect from Clomid 50mg/day

1. moods (years of depression and bi-polar which are gone since being put on test)

2. libido

3. will it lower my E2 (55PG/ML)

4. what assumptions can be made for these current blood test results
TT - 796NG/DL
FREE T - 27.4PG/ML
E2 - 55PG/ML
FSH - .21MIU/ML
LH - .20MIU/ML
 
LeanGuy

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What should I expect from Clomid 50mg/day
This is a pretty heavy dose, you'll probably have some sides.

1. moods (years of depression and bi-polar which are gone since being put on test)
Emotional sides very possible (think male PMS :))

2. libido
Could go either way, mine went up and then down, and back up after going off.

3. will it lower my E2 (55PG/ML)
I don't think so... you may need an AI for that.

4. what assumptions can be made for these current blood test results
TT - 796NG/DL
FREE T - 27.4PG/ML
E2 - 55PG/ML
FSH - .21MIU/ML
LH - .20MIU/ML
Looks like you've been on T shots. Jansz can probably comment some more.


Good luck, bro.
 
corndog

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Thanks for the imput. Not excited about the switch but a fertility expert and 2 urologist said that I need to stop the test while on Clomid to get my LH to producing good or at least some good or bad sperm.

After I get tested in 3 months then if it doesnt work I guess HCG is the sencond option. When all done then I will be back on the test shots. I need to get one of these Dr. on board with lowering my E2. I started taking L-dex but would prefer a script to do this.

I am going to look into a different supp. to help control the E2. As far as emotion goes - GREAT. Thats all I need after suffering from Dep. for so long and exspecially now that I feel so much better and am only taking 2 meds at low doses to feel great.
 

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Ok, I just got my 2 mo. post-clomid bloodwork (done thru Life Extension) and it looks better than I expected. Even though I felt like low-T, it wasn't after all. But I would expect my libido/erections to be better; they are just ok. Any comments appreciated, especially JanSz :)

TOTAL TESTOSTERONE 756 [241-827]
FREE TESTOSTERONE 23.7 [8.7-25.1]
DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE 75 [30-85]
ESTRADIOL 10 [0-53] LOW? **was taking 6-oxo
DHEA-S 386 [120-520]
PREGNENOLONE 100 [20-150]
PROGESTERONE 1.6 [0.3-1.2] HIGH **was using prog cream for sleep, before I knew better
LH 3.6 [1.5-9.3] LOW? **should this be higher after coming off clomid?
FSH 2.8 [1.4-18.1] LOW? **should this be higher after coming off clomid?
PSA 1.7 [0.0-4.0]
TSH 2.3 [.35-5.5]
PROLACTIN 9.8 [2.1-17.7]
SHBG 25 [13-71]
FERRITIN 45 [22-322] LOW? **should I be taking some iron?
VITAMIN-D 75.5 [32-100]
TOTAL CHOLESTEROL 176 [100-199]
HDL CHOLESTEROL 63 [40-59] HIGH
LDL CHOLESTEROL 102 [0-99] HIGH

Leanguy, are these results after 2 months of clomid or 2 months after stopping clomid?
 
LeanGuy

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Leanguy, are these results after 2 months of clomid or 2 months after stopping clomid?
It was about 2 weeks after stopping. I'm waiting a couple more months for another set of tests.
 
shlong

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I just got the results back from my one week clomid test, and it looks promising.

Before clomid:

LH 2.3
FSH 2.4
TOTAL-T 264
FREE-T 6.6
ESTRADIOL 24.5

After clomid (7 x 25mg):

LH 5.2
FSH 3.3
TOTAL-T 594
FREE-T 18.59
ESTRADIOL 28.5

I'll be continuing on 25mg 3x week for 8 weeks. As long as my levels maintain once I stop, I'm golden. Now if I could only solve my insomnia........
Watch out for increasing E levels after 3rd week. you might
need a little femera 1-2 a week
 
corndog

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Clomid, Sided and looking into HcG

I'm really starting to get sides from taking this Clomid. As mentioned in a earlier post I switched off of test-e to clomid to try and start producing good/live sperm to try and have another kid.

Ive been on 50mg/day for approx. 4-5 weeks. Libido or I should say desire is gone. I never want it anymore and no morning wood anymore. I still can perform but I dont get in the mood. I have noticed that my orgasms dont have much feeling to them. It seems like I lost feeling sensitivity in my unit and when I shoot its no big deal anymore.

Not that the above isnt enough, my depression and lack or life has returned for the 1st time since I was 1st put on test-e last July. I'm depressed, cant get out of bed on some days, moody and feel like sh!t in my head.

I am doing a BT today and when I get the results I am thinking calling my Uro to see if he will switch me to HcG or if it makes any sence add HcG and reduce my Clomid. I dont know if there is any sense/benefit for using both or not.
 
LeanGuy

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There is no point in taking clomid + hcg. Clomid causes your natural LH to increase; hcg replaces your LH. The sides are because the high dose of clomid is messing with too many estrogen receptors. I was taking 12.5mg ED and it was enough to take my T from 265 to 765 in 2 mos with few sides. But maybe for fertility reasons your doc wants the higher dose. Hang in there, bro.
 
corndog

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Yeah I had 3 different Dr. all come to the same agreement on the 50mg/day and to try Clomid before HcG. Its hard because after 15 + years of depression I thought I had it beat. Now i feel it comming back and cant stand the thought of it
 
Gutterpump

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Definately tell your dr's about the psych problems atm...they should have known that clomid also brings on more emotional issues as it's part of it's well documented sides. Maybe they wanted to try clomid first because it's cheaper or easier to take as well as kicks natural LH back into gear? Either way it's smarter to start HCG and stay on it when you go back to taking test. You should likely be able to maintain fertility on test + hcg (at least in most cases).
 
corndog

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Yeah, he was very conserned with me stopping the test and starting Clomid to see if I could produce good active sperm. My 1st biopsy showed 0 good sperm so thats one of the reasons he wanted (but wasnt happy) about me getting off the test-e.

I might not be able to make it till my next BT in another 5-7 weeks to see where levels r before another biopsy is done
 
Gutterpump

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can you book an earlier appointment?

If it's that bad, start back on t-shots asap if you have any and postpone this till a later date, and don't accept clomid again.
 
corndog

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well I never wanted to get off test to begin with but my wife and myself want to try and have a kid. A fert. specialist, my urologist and another urologist/fert. specialist out of CA (Goldstein) I think his name is all said Clomid would be my 1st attempt then HcG if I still was not making any sperm.

Believe me I took a shot last week but it was kinda stupid because I am running a BT tomorrow
 
Beau

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I am not involved in this, have never used Clomid (although I've been thinking about trying to jump start my HPTA w/ 12.5 mg/ed); however I have suffered from post betrayal/adultery depression. Regardless, I am sorry you are going through this and I am following this thread and will continue to do so - partly because I want to keep in touch with how you are doing.

Are you on Paxil, Wellbutrin or something else for the depression?

In any case, God bless you.
 
Gutterpump

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Ahh well if you have a BT tomorrow, talk to your doc about immediately switching to hcg. If you can't get on hcg and you feel horrible, you may have to postpone the fertility protocol a bit. I would just talk to your dr though asap and get a px for the HCG, even tomorrow if possible.
 
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Btw, I've taken effexor in the past for depression, and was on wellbutrin. I've spoken to a neurologist here and he seems to think my depression / anxiety is due to low test. SSRI's can make things worse, although they may work to blunt anxiety and blunt depression - they sure do make other issues a lot worse.

From all the research I've done, and speaking to neurolgists and cutting edge doctors, Stablon (tianeptine) is a much better drug for overall mood and depression and it is a great anxiolytic - however it is not commercially available in North America. It's an SSRA, works the opposite than an SSRI, but I can personally say it works great with little to no sides at all. Deprenyl is also a great choice for depression, libido, overall motivation and cognition. I'm trying a combo of the two right now before starting TRT and I have to say that I am now completely against the use of SSRI's which only seem to blunt people's personalities and minds.

Tianeptine ( Stablon ) has some great info
 
LeanGuy

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Update

I've been off clomid for 2 mos now. Here are the latest results:

Total T 637 [241-827]
Free T 15.4 [8.7-25.1]
LH 5.0 [1.5-9.3]
FSH 2.5 [1.4-18.1]
Estradiol 22 [0-53]

TT/FT has gone down a bit, but I'm still feeling fine. Will keep rechecking every 3 mos now.
 
Beau

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I've been off clomid for 2 mos now. Here are the latest results:

Total T 637 [241-827]
Free T 15.4 [8.7-25.1]
LH 5.0 [1.5-9.3]
FSH 2.5 [1.4-18.1]
Estradiol 22 [0-53]

TT/FT has gone down a bit, but I'm still feeling fine. Will keep rechecking every 3 mos now.
Congrats. I'm about 8 days into 12.5 mg/ed. So far, so good.
 

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I've been off clomid for 2 mos now. Here are the latest results:

Total T 637 [241-827]
Free T 15.4 [8.7-25.1]
LH 5.0 [1.5-9.3]
FSH 2.5 [1.4-18.1]
Estradiol 22 [0-53]

TT/FT has gone down a bit, but I'm still feeling fine. Will keep rechecking every 3 mos now.
Cool, it looks like you have succesfuly restarted your HPTA. And you feel good, which is what matters most. Congrats
 

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This is great I am trying to restart and this gives me hope. I will check into possibly trying this protocol. Thanks for the info. hope it keeps going well for you.
 
LeanGuy

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Thanks guys... I am hopeful but not out of the woods yet. I don't want to go below 600 or so, because last time that is where I started feeling it.
 

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well, even if it does go down again it shows that your HPTA can function. May take a few times to keep it going.
 
Grassroots082

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I've been off clomid for 2 mos now. Here are the latest results:

Total T 637 [241-827]
Free T 15.4 [8.7-25.1]
LH 5.0 [1.5-9.3]
FSH 2.5 [1.4-18.1]
Estradiol 22 [0-53]

TT/FT has gone down a bit, but I'm still feeling fine. Will keep rechecking every 3 mos now.
People OD Clomid all the time, I've never seen tracers, gotten emotional but then again I dose at the low end of the spectrum. It's extremely effective at this dose and I've never understood why people take so much so often. If I'm not mistaken, Clomid has a halflife of 5-7 days, so I only dose 25-50mg E3D along with .5mg Aromasin E3D as well. This combo works great for PCT. I wouldn't recommend it as a long term approach for increased LH/T.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clomiphene
 
corndog

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Well my guess is you are using it for some type of TRT program? Not sure if you read my situation but I am on it for fertility reasons not TRT. I had to stop my test-e and try Clomid to try and kick my boys into working and producing sperm again. As is typical my LH/FSH were pretty much none existant.
 

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