Testosterone and hating the world

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    Testosterone and hating the world


    I am having a serious problem with anger lately. I have a history or depression and anger but it has been in check for a year or so. I started taking test-e injections in July and man I was feeling great. My moods although pretty stable/good got better, my sex life went through the roof.

    Now, I am not so much depressed but angry. I hate everything and get no happiness from anything. My sex life/desire has dropped or is non-existant (think i pushed my e2 levels to low but not 1005 sure).

    I havent woke with morning wood in weeks and had sex 2x over the last 2 weeks but not because of me but wife. I have no desire or think of sex at all anymore.

    My temper and anger is out of control. I treat everyone like sh!t. Never happy, just plan mean and pissed all the time.

    So......................I'm sure I need to go see my head dr. but was woundering if anyone experienced anything like this after starting test. I know that test increases andro which increases aggressivness and moodiness but this is out of control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by corndog View Post
    I am having a serious problem with anger lately. I have a history or depression and anger but it has been in check for a year or so. I started taking test-e injections in July and man I was feeling great. My moods although pretty stable/good got better, my sex life went through the roof.

    Now, I am not so much depressed but angry. I hate everything and get no happiness from anything. My sex life/desire has dropped or is non-existant (think i pushed my e2 levels to low but not 1005 sure).

    I havent woke with morning wood in weeks and had sex 2x over the last 2 weeks but not because of me but wife. I have no desire or think of sex at all anymore.

    My temper and anger is out of control. I treat everyone like sh!t. Never happy, just plan mean and pissed all the time.

    So......................I'm sure I need to go see my head dr. but was woundering if anyone experienced anything like this after starting test. I know that test increases andro which increases aggressivness and moodiness but this is out of control.
    Have you ever tried Phenibut?
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    AS I mentioned in the wellbutrin thread, you will find that TRT is not a panacea. Your body will get stop manufacturing its own test, your SHBG will most likely increase, causing less free test in your body.

    You are in a complex disease, which requires a many pronged solution.

    Immediately pick up some Propionyl-L-Carnitine, and dose around 2-3 grams a day. You will thank me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    AS I mentioned in the wellbutrin thread, you will find that TRT is not a panacea. Your body will get stop manufacturing its own test, your SHBG will most likely increase, causing less free test in your body.

    You are in a complex disease, which requires a many pronged solution.

    Immediately pick up some Propionyl-L-Carnitine, and dose around 2-3 grams a day. You will thank me.
    Good call. I love Propionyl-L-Carnitine.
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    Thanks guys. Source (NP I assume) brand prefered. I like NOW brand stuff but guess I need to see who actually makes this. Thanks again guys.
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    Guys, I am new to all of this, but isn't that the idea behind Dr. Crisler's hCG protocol?

    You start taking test, feel good for a while, become HPT supressed, your baseline production lowers, you feel worse, you add hCG to increase baseline production, all is good again.
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    I dont know but the way Im feeling something better work soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corndog View Post
    Thanks guys. Source (NP I assume) brand prefered. I like NOW brand stuff but guess I need to see who actually makes this. Thanks again guys.
    Correct...the PLCAR should arrive at NP by Wednesday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    AS I mentioned in the wellbutrin thread, you will find that TRT is not a panacea. Your body will get stop manufacturing its own test, your SHBG will most likely increase, causing less free test in your body.

    You are in a complex disease, which requires a many pronged solution.

    Immediately pick up some Propionyl-L-Carnitine, and dose around 2-3 grams a day. You will thank me.
    How does Propionyl-L-Carnitine differ from Acetyl-L-Carnitine or simply just L-Carnitine?
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    Quote Originally Posted by corndog View Post
    I dont know but the way Im feeling something better work soon.
    What are you on right now? And in what amounts? When was the last time you had labs drawn?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
    How does Propionyl-L-Carnitine differ from Acetyl-L-Carnitine or simply just L-Carnitine?
    PLCAR has a special affinity for the body's cells (muscle and cardiac) rather than neural cells like ALCAR.

    There is also new studies coming out on PLCAR and the effect on androgen receptor density and sensitivity.
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    rick055

    you asking for TRT or head meds
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    I don't believe this is a correct statement. TRT will more likely reduce SHBG.

    Anger.. issues with patience, anxiety could be caused by several reasons...

    1. too much testosterone.
    2. elevated E2.
    3. suppressed SHBG causes rapid destruction of hormones causing anxiety etc as the week progresses.

    I encourage you to find a competent physician and do not mean to offend well-meaning people on here. But please do NOT take everything you read here as gospel. We are often so anxious for answers that we accept whatever we read.

    That being said.. it doesn't mean what folks here have to say are not true. BUT the important thing is ... is it TRUE FOR YOU. All our cases are unique, so blanket answers do NOT cover all situations.


    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    AS I mentioned in the wellbutrin thread, you will find that TRT is not a panacea. Your body will get stop manufacturing its own test, your SHBG will most likely increase, causing less free test in your body.

    You are in a complex disease, which requires a many pronged solution.

    Immediately pick up some Propionyl-L-Carnitine, and dose around 2-3 grams a day. You will thank me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corndog View Post
    So......................I'm sure I need to go see my head dr. but was woundering if anyone experienced anything like this after starting test.
    There are pretty conclusive studies proving that testosterone DOES NOT increase aggressive behavior, at least up to as high as 600mg/wk, in psychologically normal men. If you're having anger issues you may want to see a psychiatrist because testosterone most likely isn't the "cause".

    Best of luck. Nobody should live angry, so I hope you feel better soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wondering View Post
    I don't believe this is a correct statement. TRT will more likely reduce SHBG.

    Anger.. issues with patience, anxiety could be caused by several reasons...

    1. too much testosterone.
    2. elevated E2.
    3. suppressed SHBG causes rapid destruction of hormones causing anxiety etc as the week progresses.

    I encourage you to find a competent physician and do not mean to offend well-meaning people on here. But please do NOT take everything you read here as gospel. We are often so anxious for answers that we accept whatever we read.

    That being said.. it doesn't mean what folks here have to say are not true. BUT the important thing is ... is it TRUE FOR YOU. All our cases are unique, so blanket answers do NOT cover all situations.
    Actually, you are correct. My mistake.
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    Woundering, great post. I forget we are unique and not everything works for everyone.

    The anger thing is a issue I have had most of my life. A year or so ago my psy. dr. seemed to hit it right with my dumb/dumb cocktail as I call it.

    I felt pretty damb good over the last year with minor depressive states. A couple of weeks ago I spent 2 days in bed sleeping 14-17 hours. Depressed yeah maybe but also found out my Hemoglobin was high so I had a phelbotomy (spelling). Some theories have it high hemoglobin can cause increased anger.

    Anyway, my TT was 899, free t 34.9 E2 was high at 66. I started l-dex and think I drove my e to low. So I stopped the l-dex and waiting. It just sucks to wake up mad and hating evereyone and everything. I'm pissed, upset 24/7 for the last 3-4 weeks. I told my new wife (8/11/07) she should f-ing leave me. I wouldnt put up with a person like am I am being and I told her she shouldnt put up with me either.

    I wish I could just say Im happy and life is great but it just doesnt work that way.
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    Ok I dont see anything in your post about what your Dr had to say about it. What did he have to say?

    How long after you started HRT did you start feeling the anger issues come up?

    Everything I "guessed" at was wrong after getting my Rhein 24-hour urine panel results back from Dr. John. You are wasting your time if you are not doing labs and trying to guess at this. If Dr. John doesn't guess with all his experience I don't think any of us would be any better at it with our less experience.

    If it were me I'd definitely want to know what my estrogen levels are. Not just E2. Also please post where you had your labs done at.

    I tend to struggle with anger problems myself and just started T gel about 10 days ago so I am curious myself as to how it will affect my temperment. It doesn't have to be directly related to the test itself but to what it causes to change in my system like estrogen conversion.

    Quote Originally Posted by corndog View Post
    Woundering, great post. I forget we are unique and not everything works for everyone.

    The anger thing is a issue I have had most of my life. A year or so ago my psy. dr. seemed to hit it right with my dumb/dumb cocktail as I call it.

    I felt pretty damb good over the last year with minor depressive states. A couple of weeks ago I spent 2 days in bed sleeping 14-17 hours. Depressed yeah maybe but also found out my Hemoglobin was high so I had a phelbotomy (spelling). Some theories have it high hemoglobin can cause increased anger.

    Anyway, my TT was 899, free t 34.9 E2 was high at 66. I started l-dex and think I drove my e to low. So I stopped the l-dex and waiting. It just sucks to wake up mad and hating evereyone and everything. I'm pissed, upset 24/7 for the last 3-4 weeks. I told my new wife (8/11/07) she should f-ing leave me. I wouldnt put up with a person like am I am being and I told her she shouldnt put up with me either.

    I wish I could just say Im happy and life is great but it just doesnt work that way.
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    TRT is not a panacea
    I can't tell you how many times I have heard this lately from guys or from others who hear it from other guys they talk to who are being treated. Their doctor prescribes them T gel or shots or whatever but it didnt really do what they thought it would. I think the problem isn't at all that HRT theraphy isn't a panacea but to the fact that almost all I hear about are not being treated by a Doctor who really knows what their doing. They write a script for Testosterone and think there done. They know nothing about treating and monitoring estrogens or SHBG, etc. (when I mentioned to one Dr about using arimidex to treat high E2 they were clueless)

    I believe the Dr's who are simply writing scripts for androgel thinking that's the magic bullet are doing their patients a huge disservice.

    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    AS I mentioned in the wellbutrin thread, you will find that TRT is not a panacea. Your body will get stop manufacturing its own test, your SHBG will most likely increase, causing less free test in your body.

    You are in a complex disease, which requires a many pronged solution.

    Immediately pick up some Propionyl-L-Carnitine, and dose around 2-3 grams a day. You will thank me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corndog View Post
    rick055

    you asking for TRT or head meds
    both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corndog View Post
    Woundering, great post. I forget we are unique and not everything works for everyone.

    The anger thing is a issue I have had most of my life. A year or so ago my psy. dr. seemed to hit it right with my dumb/dumb cocktail as I call it.

    I felt pretty damb good over the last year with minor depressive states. A couple of weeks ago I spent 2 days in bed sleeping 14-17 hours. Depressed yeah maybe but also found out my Hemoglobin was high so I had a phelbotomy (spelling). Some theories have it high hemoglobin can cause increased anger.

    Anyway, my TT was 899, free t 34.9 E2 was high at 66. I started l-dex and think I drove my e to low. So I stopped the l-dex and waiting. It just sucks to wake up mad and hating evereyone and everything. I'm pissed, upset 24/7 for the last 3-4 weeks. I told my new wife (8/11/07) she should f-ing leave me. I wouldnt put up with a person like am I am being and I told her she shouldnt put up with me either.

    I wish I could just say Im happy and life is great but it just doesnt work that way.
    I think its the L-Dex. I notice when I take it, I feel angry as hell. Try getting E2 tested again and then if its high dropping the L-Dex dosage in half.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    TRT is not a panacea
    I believe the Dr's who are simply writing scripts for androgel thinking that's the magic bullet are doing their patients a huge disservice.


    Well said, good post.

    If your baseline isn't being maintained and subsequent administration of exogenous T is aromatizing to estrogen then only the drug companies are doing well.

    My PCP has been amazingly open minded to using both an AI and hCG, but I still can't wait to see Dr. John.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aculpep View Post
    TRT is not a panacea
    I can't tell you how many times I have heard this lately from guys or from others who hear it from other guys they talk to who are being treated. Their doctor prescribes them T gel or shots or whatever but it didnt really do what they thought it would. I think the problem isn't at all that HRT theraphy isn't a panacea but to the fact that almost all I hear about are not being treated by a Doctor who really knows what their doing. They write a script for Testosterone and think there done. They know nothing about treating and monitoring estrogens or SHBG, etc. (when I mentioned to one Dr about using arimidex to treat high E2 they were clueless)

    I believe the Dr's who are simply writing scripts for androgel thinking that's the magic bullet are doing their patients a huge disservice.
    Yeah, good post. Reps.
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    I still wouldnt discount the chance (maybe even likelihood) that hormones are the root of the issues here.

    Again, TRT will influence more than just Testosterone levels. So, again... I would make sure I have a true hormone specialist monitoring.

    if you don't, I would either find one (which may not be easy) or find an open minded one that will either consult with Dr. Crisler or other true hormone specialist.

    I have seen posts from Marianco of a hormone specialist in Washington that is happy to help other doctors interpret 24hr Urine tests.

    Do your Googling.

    For some people.. simply takign Test is the answer... for others the hormone balance is more complex.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00 View Post
    There are pretty conclusive studies proving that testosterone DOES NOT increase aggressive behavior, at least up to as high as 600mg/wk, in psychologically normal men. If you're having anger issues you may want to see a psychiatrist because testosterone most likely isn't the "cause".

    Best of luck. Nobody should live angry, so I hope you feel better soon.
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    Reread ur post... the fact that your mood was poor pre-TRT..... got better post-TRT..... then got worse farther post-TRT tells me you had a hormone imbalance that at first was improved by TRT but is returning. Could be many things...

    Get a good doctor.


    Quote Originally Posted by corndog View Post
    I am having a serious problem with anger lately. I have a history or depression and anger but it has been in check for a year or so. I started taking test-e injections in July and man I was feeling great. My moods although pretty stable/good got better, my sex life went through the roof.

    Now, I am not so much depressed but angry. I hate everything and get no happiness from anything. My sex life/desire has dropped or is non-existant (think i pushed my e2 levels to low but not 1005 sure).

    I havent woke with morning wood in weeks and had sex 2x over the last 2 weeks but not because of me but wife. I have no desire or think of sex at all anymore.

    My temper and anger is out of control. I treat everyone like sh!t. Never happy, just plan mean and pissed all the time.

    So......................I'm sure I need to go see my head dr. but was woundering if anyone experienced anything like this after starting test. I know that test increases andro which increases aggressivness and moodiness but this is out of control.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wondering View Post
    I still wouldnt discount the chance (maybe even likelihood) that hormones are the root of the issues here.
    Maybe I communicated my point poorly, but I don't think we'd disagree (I could be wrong). What I mean to say is that test isn't the "cause" of his anger. And, in men whom are considered to be psychologically "normal" testosterone will not "cause" angry behavior.

    In this case he may have some other psychological disorder that could be exacerbated by supraphysiological levels of testosterone but in that case testosterone still isn't the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00 View Post
    In this case he may have some other psychological disorder that could be exacerbated by supraphysiological levels of testosterone but in that case testosterone still isn't the problem.


    Ding ding ding we have a winner.

    Remember all those studies that came out a few years ago that linked SSRI's with suicides? Alot of people went off SSRI's because of said studies. And guess what has happened - suicide rates skyrocketed.

    What boggles my mind is how many so called *experts* overlook a simple idea - that maybe severly depressed people are suicidal, but simply lack the motivational energy it would take to commit suicide, but once they get on Med's it gives them that initial *burst* to do what they want to do. Many of the newer cutting edge docs are now looking at that as a reason - the SSRI's are doing what they are supposed to do - pulling people out of a rut. They are not causing suicides - they are only giving people more of a *spurt* or *boost* to go do what they want to do, be it start living, or start dying.

    Which brings me back to corndog. I think what is happeneing is twofold - He has got some internal anger. All the T is doing is giving him more *spurt* and *boost* in his ability to live, and the real person is starting to come out - I.E. someone who is pissed A similar situation happens when people go on SSRI's and commit suicide - its not that SSRi's cause suicide, they just bring the *real* person out of his/her depressed shell, and often this can lead to good, or sometimes bad things.

    Secondly, the Estrogen factor. We all know what high can do. Its hell. I believe I saw an E2 number of 60 up there?

    Corn, does your HRT MD have a detailed medical history of you and med historty(past/present)
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    I don't think researchers "overlook" things like that. I think these problems can be summer up with three simple words:

    researcher expectancy bias
  

  
 

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