soy as a baby..

[maguire]

Hey dr. john and whoever else, ive been lurking in these forums for a while and been talking with pgamer at another site and he told me to come here. I basically have a question about having soy as an infant because ive read from different things that it can really screw up your hormones as a male. My testosterone i think has been low for about 7 years now and im only 21 years old. My mother fed me on breast milk for 6 months and then for over a year with soy milk because she thought it was healthier for me. My last test numbers were..
T3 free-302 (230-420)
T4 fre 2.27(1.53-3.8)
TSH-1.14
LH- 1.6(1.5-9.3)
FSH-3.0(1.6-8.0)
Prolactin 4.0(2.0-18.0)
Cortisol-10(4-22)
Estradiol 31 (10-55)

Total Test 523 (250-1100)
Test %Free 1.173( 1.10-2.80)
Free Test 90.5 (35-155)


I basically have all the low test symptoms which are symptoms of a million things i guess but ive tried bascially every other thing to help me and nothing worked(antidepressants, candida, leaky gut, thyroid, adrenals). I have VERY low libido, some ED(worse in the past), very tired, brain fog is very bad. Im taking 2 grains armour now with the help of a pretty good doctor who doesnt really know much about the whole testosterone thing though. And also, i know my numbers arent that bad like some guys out there have and my heart goes out to them cause it must be soo hard but i think they are low enough for a while to have had this impact on me and i am quite young still so would like to have the raging libido and confidence that most my age have. My other simblings also show similar signs of having this estrogendominance or whatever you call it. My sister entered puberty WAY early and my brother has similar symptoms as me so i have a hard time believing that we all have some kind of pituitary problem like my doctor thinks because we were all fed this soy milf as infants for a long time. Maybe we are more susceptible to low testosterone anyhow, alot of alcholism in the family and depression. Maybe whok knows, any imput from anyone would be greatly appreciated though.

 

[JanSz]

Hey dr. john and whoever else, ive been lurking in these forums for a while and been talking with pgamer at another site and he told me to come here. I basically have a question about having soy as an infant because ive read from different things that it can really screw up your hormones as a male. My testosterone i think has been low for about 7 years now and im only 21 years old. My mother fed me on breast milk for 6 months and then for over a year with soy milk because she thought it was healthier for me. My last test numbers were..
T3 free-302 (230-420)
T4 fre 2.27(1.53-3.8)
TSH-1.14
LH- 1.6(1.5-9.3)
FSH-3.0(1.6-8.0)
Prolactin 4.0(2.0-18.0)
Cortisol-10(4-22)
Estradiol 31 (10-55)

Total Test 523 (250-1100)
Test %Free 1.173( 1.10-2.80)
Free Test 90.5 (35-155)


I basically have all the low test symptoms which are symptoms of a million things i guess but ive tried bascially every other thing to help me and nothing worked(antidepressants, candida, leaky gut, thyroid, adrenals). I have VERY low libido, some ED(worse in the past), very tired, brain fog is very bad. Im taking 2 grains armour now with the help of a pretty good doctor who doesnt really know much about the whole testosterone thing though. And also, i know my numbers arent that bad like some guys out there have and my heart goes out to them cause it must be soo hard but i think they are low enough for a while to have had this impact on me and i am quite young still so would like to have the raging libido and confidence that most my age have. My other simblings also show similar signs of having this estrogendominance or whatever you call it. My sister entered puberty WAY early and my brother has similar symptoms as me so i have a hard time believing that we all have some kind of pituitary problem like my doctor thinks because we were all fed this soy milf as infants for a long time. Maybe we are more susceptible to low testosterone anyhow, alot of alcholism in the family and depression. Maybe whok knows, any imput from anyone would be greatly appreciated though.

It would help if you did long blood test that I post sometimes.
From the number you posted
You are on 2grains of Armour and your FreeT3 is still low.
Increase Armour (probably another 2grains) until your FreeT3 is at the top range or very close to it.

Your Total T is small but not really low.
Try HCG Novarel 250Iu E2D

Your Estradiol=31 is not that bad, other Estrogens are possibly out of range.
Do blood test
or
LEF DualAction, take 4 pills
Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol & Cat's Claw, 60 Vegetarian Capsules
LEF TMG 2 pills
Tmg (Trimethylglycine), 500 Mg 180 Tablets
Omega-3 EPA/DHA
Super Omega-3 Epa/Dha With Sesame Lignans & Olive Fruit Extract, 120 Softgels

Without blood test is tough to figure what would help you.

Lack of iodine may screw things.
May want to try 3-6 drops of Lugol's solution of iodine.
Try it for couple months, see if it makes difference.

 

[maguire]

Hi janz, thanks for the reply. Those thyroid tests were actually done before going on armour and i responded pretty well before with getting my t3 over the top of the range in the past when i tried armour but still not feel that good. I am getting new tests pretty soon though so i will let you know.

I am also doing Dim and Tmg + SAMe now and have actualy been feeling a little bit better. I have a feeling i am sensitive to E2 from having all that soy milk as a kid. I just dont know if taking the e2 will get my lh and fsh to kick in and for me to start producing more testosterone. My test levels arent THAT low for having such a low lh and fsh. Ive never done any steroids or anything like that so that could not be the cause of those low levels.

Im kind of scared to do HCG because i dont think i need it. I was more thinking along the lines of like low dose nolva or clomid to get my pituitary to kick in from probably being low for so long. Plus I hear the hcg goes into e2 pretty easily and i feel im sensitive to that. Most of my problems are high e2 low test symptoms like very irritable and moody with depression and brain fog. I have always felt really hot and looked red on the upper part of my body.

Do you or anyone think that if i get my new numbers back and the indolplex plus zinc and that stuff did not raise the lh and fsh or the test very much, would it be a good idea to do a run with low dose nolva..do you think that could help theoretically? thanks for any help.

 

[JanSz]

Hi janz, thanks for the reply. Those thyroid tests were actually done before going on armour and i responded pretty well before with getting my t3 over the top of the range in the past when i tried armour but still not feel that good. I am getting new tests pretty soon though so i will let you know.

I am also doing Dim and Tmg + SAMe now and have actualy been feeling a little bit better. I have a feeling i am sensitive to E2 from having all that soy milk as a kid. I just dont know if taking the e2 will get my lh and fsh to kick in and for me to start producing more testosterone. My test levels arent THAT low for having such a low lh and fsh. Ive never done any steroids or anything like that so that could not be the cause of those low levels.

Im kind of scared to do HCG because i dont think i need it. I was more thinking along the lines of like low dose nolva or clomid to get my pituitary to kick in from probably being low for so long. Plus I hear the hcg goes into e2 pretty easily and i feel im sensitive to that. Most of my problems are high e2 low test symptoms like very irritable and moody with depression and brain fog. I have always felt really hot and looked red on the upper part of my body.

Do you or anyone think that if i get my new numbers back and the indolplex plus zinc and that stuff did not raise the lh and fsh or the test very much, would it be a good idea to do a run with low dose nolva..do you think that could help theoretically? thanks for any help.

I have my doubts about Indolples, that is just DIM nothing else. That is my reson for using DualAction.

I think you should get your adrenals and thyroid in the best shape you could
and
indeed try restart.

I am not familiar with how restart is done
but
I would figure out what is a full bore heavy duty restart routine and use it full course.
If you try little bit here and little there, waste of time and remember clomid and nolva have nasty sides.

I got good advice (I think) to use (HCG+HMG) when I was considering possible restart.
Read about it here:
Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding - View Single Post - Need testers for Dermacrine -- A topical testosterone booster
plus rest of the thread.

I think it boils down to E2D (250iu HCG)+ (75iu HMG)
for 3 months.
I newer figured out if there is any tapering down.

 

[coz]

At what time of day were your blood tests taken ? Your cortisol is not very high if it was morning time. I'd check your adrenals, they could also be affecting how you were feeling when on the armour - u said u still didnt feel that good when you got your T3 up (this could be a sign of low cortisol)

Once you've addressed your adrenals and thyroid, if your LH/FSH is still low, then you could try some novla or clomid as a restart. I would recommend a low dose, and to run it for quite a long time, tappering very slowly off it when you do. I wouldn't recommend HCG as your testies are working fine - it's the LH and FSH you want to increase. HCG can raise E2, and also inhibit the HPTA (which is opposite from what you want)

I'm currently on 10mg of novla, and have been for about 6months, and before that it was 20mg per day for about 2mths. My levels have come up alot, and my new dr has found underlying adrenal & thyroid problems - which we are just starting to fix now, so once that's all done - I'll see if my T levels come up some more, then probably taper off the novla slowly.

 

[maguire]

hey thanks for the responses..I know that cortisol is a little low but ive also done morning cortisol tests where the number was actually high so its confusing. My last saliva test through neuro labs said my adrenals were actually in good shape except for a really high dhea which could mean stress but the thing is that HC which im 10mg no(previously 20mg) never made me feel any better. If anything it made me feel a little more fatigued and foggy! I would have thought that if i needed adrenal support, taking that would really calm things down. I was huge into adrenal suport for the last year now cause i thought that was my main problem but it hasnt really changed the way i feel at all.

i was hoping somebody would say nolva is a good idea. I am scared to take hcg cause i want to speed up my hpta, not inhibit it in anyway. I want to give my own balls to do what i think they can do ha. I really think that getting my test up will also take alot of stress off my adrenals and thyroid and help them run smoother without the stress of low test.

How do you feel coz with that protocol, what were your symptoms before? Do you take anything for estrogen while on the nolva. Im just nervous because i think with the whole growing up on soy thing , i am very senstive to estrogen and my numbers might already be high. That protocol sounds good though, do you have a site where you buy nolva safely or does your doc give it to you. Its just that my doc is good but he iskind of old school. Anyway, thanks

 

[coz]

Were u taking the HC under a doctors supervision ? Or are you self treating everything, including the thyroid when you tried ? Did you get the saliva tests BEFORE you started HC, or after ?

Adrenals can be in different conditions - depending what stage of fatiuge you are in, and therefore they may require different treatment.

I had typical hypogondism symptoms (fatigue, no libido, int ED, depression etc) and was put on TRT by my endo. I still didn't feel 100% after 1.5 yrs, so decided to try restarting my HPTA with the novla. My Testosterone levels have come up from 9 to 21 (range 8.4 -28.7) while on the novla only therapy.

I still was not feeling 100%, so flew to see Dr Mariano recently. He diagnosed underlying adrenal & thyroid issues & I've started medication for them. I will be interested to see whether my T levels go up further once the Adrenals & Thyroid are under control. I will continue the novla at 10mg a day while we work on my thyroid & Adrenals.

Where are you located ? I would recommend seeing a good doctor if you can, as the interactions between all the different hormone systems is quite complex, and self treating you are likely to end up chasing your tail. My endo who was treating me for 2 yrs - didn't diagnose hypothyrodism or hypoadrenia, even though my original tests showed these - as well as Low T

 

[maguire]

Hey, yeah i was treating my adrenals and thyroid under a doctor who is quite good. I got all my tests before starting the the HC and armour so those are all my natural production. The doctor is basically treating me symptomatically because none of my numbers for adrenals or thyroid look that bad on paper. The reason im worried is my thyroid and adrenals have never looked THAT bad and yet I feel terrible. Plus my TSH has always been low which I am told signifies a pituitary problem but this i dont get either because My growth factor on my last test was over the top and that is a hormone that is usually low with a pituitary problem. Ive had an MRI and there is nothing wrong there and my siblings have similar issues which really makes me wonder how much the pituitary canbe involved like from a hit to the head or something.

Anyway, My testosterone, lh and fsh have been the only things that have been noticeablly low on my tests but an endo never even mentioned this to me! 6 months ago my level was 320 as a 20 year old kid! From taking zinc and working out some my levels have jumped to about 520 which tells me my testisare working but i feelthat is not enough.
Sorry im rambling here but do you have a protocol that you would recomend with the nolva. I think i would only need to take like 10mg of it maybe for a long time because my test levels arent as bad as some. Let me know waht you think though or anyone..thanks

 

[coz]

As I said, I've been on 10mg each night for the last 6mths, and will continue this while sorting out my adrenals & thyroid. Then I will very slowly taper down - so as to not shock my hpta.

I don't see an issue with you trying 10mg a day for a month or so to see if it raises your LH & FSH.

You should still look at your adrenals (get a 24hr saliva cortisol test, more info on sttm - where i have seen your post). And also your thyroid (Free T3 & T4 in range, however still low)

 

[pmgamer18]

Bump for Dr. John