KSMan - interesting thought on a combination of injections and gel. suppose I were taking 100mg test-c once a week plus HCG 250mg in the two days prior to the injection and wanted to replicate that dose with a different protocol, such as E3D injections + cream +HCG, how does this look:
E3D 30mg Test-c
250mg HCG 1 day prior to injection
2.5g androgel every morning
Would that be too much or a similar dose to what I'm taking now?
The 30mg EOD would be 70mg per week.
If one absorbed 10% of the transdermal (TD), then that would be 2.5mg/day or 17.5mg/wk. (I am not very familiar with TD dosing, correct me if that is wrong.)
Total is 87.5 or a 12.5% decrease over your 100mg/wk. If the test cyp was 35.5mg E3D, the weekly dose would not change. If you make a change that increases your intake, you will feel that increase which makes evaluation of the intended change hard to evaluate. Unfortunately, the amount of absorption of transdermals is an individual unknown. So it will be hard to control total intake. But I think that small amounts if TD would absorb better than 100%TD.
There was some research showing that 250iu SQ EOD of HCG maintains baseline testicular function. That became the basis of my dosing after I got the research paper to my doc to consider. That increased my total T from 886 to 1025 (16%). So changes to or initiation of HCG can change your levels.
Because the effects of increased E2 can have a very strong or dominant effect over the outcome of TRT, this cannot be ignored. The intent of any trial dosing that we are discussing is to see if that improves one's sense of well-being. That is something that only you can evaluate and blood work provides no guidance except to show if the new method increases or decreases FT, TT, E2, DHT. Even if none of those changed, there could be an effect on the mind from the morning application wave of T from the TD. All of this is highly speculative and would be generally be a safe thing to do. But finding a doc that would agree to the test cyp plus TD might be difficult. A doc may also be highly constrained by HMOs, state medical boards and insurance companies. And some docs do not react well to suggestions from left field and some may perceive such things as 'drug seeking behavior'. To avoid that indication, you might be better off suggesting dosing that has a clear intent of not increasing your total intake. If your TRT is not settled in and there are needs to adjust the dosing to change serum levels of T or E, then any change in that regard can mask the effects of the injection + TD. For example, if you were to start taking an AI to lower E2 and also made the injection + TD change, the effects of the lowered E2 can be very profound and you would have no idea if the injection + TD was doing anything for you.
I think that such individual trials should not be done until everything else is almost perfect. As E2 levels can ruin everything with TRT, I think that E2 levels should be in the optimal range (thought to be 17-20). Then one will be able to respond to and evaluate any potential for improvement. Think of your TRT as an excellent design and injection + TD as a possible polish. There may or may not be any improvement for you as an individual and if it works for you, others may not note any improvement.
Again, E2 can be evil. My TT was around 1000 on test cyp + HCG. I should have felt great. I did not. I had many of the symptoms of a guy with sub range T. Adding AI (aromatase inhibitor) lowered my E2 from 37 to 22. That provided a huge improvement and AI was required to unlock all of the benefits of TRT. Note that at my pre AI TT levels, I was getting good anabolic and androgenic response with loss of fat, muscle gain and increased body hair... I just had no energy, libido low, mood sucked etc. The key to success is not T levels, but a balance of all of the major hormones.
One reason why you need to find a really good doc, is because many docs are not that good (they cannot all be above average). Some will not provide AI no matter what your symptoms are if the E2 levels are inside the normal lab ranges. Those ranges are statistical ranges that also include many men with problems. It is not a range of wellness or normalcy. Some docs then look at your lab work and then will not address any E2 issues that you have. Such docs are not treating your symptoms, but are only treating your lab results. A robot could do that. And some docs will not prescribe HCG as they are of the mind set that you do not need your testicles, even when it is widely accepted that HCG improves mood. There are many barriers for some to getting TRT working right. Many need to advocate for their best interests and we see many needing to find a doctor that understands the bigger picture. So any discussion of anything optimal needs to look at all of these broader aspects as well.
