My Current TRT State of Affairs

[FOXDIE]

Hi!

So I have been doing 50mg E3D of 100mg/ml test cyp.

here is my blood test situation and the results:
I did a 50mg injection on Friday May 11th about 3pm. (Before that on Tuesday May 8th, and so on...)Then on Saturday May 12th at around 8am I took a blood test.

I got my blood tests back today. Now had this been weekly injections I would have been concerned that the levels I got back were my "peak" levels. But since I am doing this every three days is it safe to assume that my level that I got back would only waver 100+ or 100- or so?

My concern is that my Testosterone came back at 682.

(As a side note I know that when I was doing weekly injections that the peak felt really good and noticabley better. )

Does this Testosterone level sound right for my dosage of 50mg e3d?

Also I have been worried that my libido problems (ie. NO sex drive, NO urge to have sex or want women, EXTREMELY weak erections and rarely) were caused by estrogen. I have been taking 100mg zinc everday and my estradiol levels came back at 8.

So what should I do about my estradiol? What about my testosterone levels?

If my levels would still be on the rise after that Friday injection when I got my blood test on Saturday, then I guess 672 isnt that bad. But if thats my peak or where Ill be at, Id like to push that up a bit.


Im 22 and i want to get back the amazing confidence, sex drive, poweful unending erections of my earlier 20's (sounds funny saying that).

Should i just administer more T myself for a week or two and see if that even helps, then if it does push for it, if not then look to other factors?

Also a question about injections. I always have trouble knowing where to align the plunger against the dosage amount "ticks" on the side of the syringe. Like do i match the pointy top of the concave stopper end at the line that i want or do i push it up more so that the black rubber edge near the bottom of the concave stopper is aligned at the line? hope that made some sorta sense...

Thanks! and please answer each of these questions in an interjecting quote style if possible. makes it very organized.[/quote]

also i take levothyroxine for my hypothyroidism. should i ask if i can try a different t4 med, or switch to something like armour which is t3/t4?

do i have a dopamine deficiency possibly? i want my sex life back!

 

[hardasnails1973]

Hi!

So I have been doing 50mg E3D of 100mg/ml test cyp.

here is my blood test situation and the results:
I did a 50mg injection on Friday May 11th about 3pm. (Before that on Tuesday May 8th, and so on...)Then on Saturday May 12th at around 8am I took a blood test.

I got my blood tests back today. Now had this been weekly injections I would have been concerned that the levels I got back were my "peak" levels. But since I am doing this every three days is it safe to assume that my level that I got back would only waver 100+ or 100- or so?

My concern is that my Testosterone came back at 682.

(As a side note I know that when I was doing weekly injections that the peak felt really good and noticabley better. )

Does this Testosterone level sound right for my dosage of 50mg e3d?

Also I have been worried that my libido problems (ie. NO sex drive, NO urge to have sex or want women, EXTREMELY weak erections and rarely) were caused by estrogen. I have been taking 100mg zinc everday and my estradiol levels came back at 8.

So what should I do about my estradiol? What about my testosterone levels?

If my levels would still be on the rise after that Friday injection when I got my blood test on Saturday, then I guess 672 isnt that bad. But if thats my peak or where Ill be at, Id like to push that up a bit.


Im 22 and i want to get back the amazing confidence, sex drive, poweful unending erections of my earlier 20's (sounds funny saying that).

Should i just administer more T myself for a week or two and see if that even helps, then if it does push for it, if not then look to other factors?

Also a question about injections. I always have trouble knowing where to align the plunger against the dosage amount "ticks" on the side of the syringe. Like do i match the pointy top of the concave stopper end at the line that i want or do i push it up more so that the black rubber edge near the bottom of the concave stopper is aligned at the line? hope that made some sorta sense...

Thanks! and please answer each of these questions in an interjecting quote style if possible. makes it very organized.

also i take levothyroxine for my hypothyroidism. should i ask if i can try a different t4 med, or switch to something like armour which is t3/t4?

do i have a dopamine deficiency possibly? i want my sex life back![/QUOTE]


addin some hcg 100 ius and day and it should bring mr wanky to life .. your e2 is too damn low !!
Where is your dhea and shbg? that needs to be looked at.

 

[plymouth city]

Hi!

So I have been doing 50mg E3D of 100mg/ml test cyp.

here is my blood test situation and the results:
I did a 50mg injection on Friday May 11th about 3pm. (Before that on Tuesday May 8th, and so on...)Then on Saturday May 12th at around 8am I took a blood test.

I got my blood tests back today. Now had this been weekly injections I would have been concerned that the levels I got back were my "peak" levels. But since I am doing this every three days is it safe to assume that my level that I got back would only waver 100+ or 100- or so?

My concern is that my Testosterone came back at 682.

(As a side note I know that when I was doing weekly injections that the peak felt really good and noticabley better. )

Does this Testosterone level sound right for my dosage of 50mg e3d?

Also I have been worried that my libido problems (ie. NO sex drive, NO urge to have sex or want women, EXTREMELY weak erections and rarely) were caused by estrogen. I have been taking 100mg zinc everday and my estradiol levels came back at 8.

So what should I do about my estradiol? What about my testosterone levels?

If my levels would still be on the rise after that Friday injection when I got my blood test on Saturday, then I guess 672 isnt that bad. But if thats my peak or where Ill be at, Id like to push that up a bit.


Im 22 and i want to get back the amazing confidence, sex drive, poweful unending erections of my earlier 20's (sounds funny saying that).

Should i just administer more T myself for a week or two and see if that even helps, then if it does push for it, if not then look to other factors?

Also a question about injections. I always have trouble knowing where to align the plunger against the dosage amount "ticks" on the side of the syringe. Like do i match the pointy top of the concave stopper end at the line that i want or do i push it up more so that the black rubber edge near the bottom of the concave stopper is aligned at the line? hope that made some sorta sense...

Thanks! and please answer each of these questions in an interjecting quote style if possible. makes it very organized.

also i take levothyroxine for my hypothyroidism. should i ask if i can try a different t4 med, or switch to something like armour which is t3/t4?

do i have a dopamine deficiency possibly? i want my sex life back![/QUOTE]

E2 is crazy low. No AI use? Low E2 could cause as much libido problems as low T. You night want to ask your DR if you can switch over to a TD as this will raise E2.

50mg E3D equals out to a 120mg shot per week. Your T level is fine.

What exactly happened in the last 2 years that caused your symptoms? Tramatic events, car accident, drug/alcohol use etc,?

What kind of Zinc you taking? 100mg of even potent aspartate shouldn't do that much to E if at all.

 

[hardasnails1973]

also i take levothyroxine for my hypothyroidism. should i ask if i can try a different t4 med, or switch to something like armour which is t3/t4?

do i have a dopamine deficiency possibly? i want my sex life back!

E2 is crazy low. No AI use? Low E2 could cause as much libido problems as low T. You night want to ask your DR if you can switch over to a TD as this will raise E2.

50mg E3D equals out to a 120mg shot per week. Your T level is fine.

What exactly happened in the last 2 years that caused your symptoms? Tramatic events, car accident, drug/alcohol use etc,?

What kind of Zinc you taking? 100mg of even potent aspartate shouldn't do that much to E if at all.[/QUOTE]

No but lack of dhea will drop e in toilet too..might be why mr smiley is not too happy. Low estrogen is why no chubb.
You might be better off with injections every week to get e2 up and see where it is after 4 weeks ...plymouth you agree.Low e2 leads to fatty liver and if your shbg is high then you need more estrogen

 

[pmgamer18]

Doing his shots every 3 days I test on the day of my next shot do the test in the morning and shoot when I get home. Doing this has lowered my E2 but I take Arimidex just less of it. Don't do Zinc this high for more then 4 weeks also add in 2mgs of Copper when taking Zinc Zinc lowers Copper in your body. I would add in HCG 250 IU's the 2 days each in between your T shots. I do this and my libido is fine doing this will bring up your E2. And your sex life.

 

[FOXDIE]

thanks to all who replied, especially pmgamer. your information is topnotch.

so to summarize:

1.) Start HCG
2.) Check T4 levels? and T3?
3.) Check prolactin
4.) Discontinue Zinc

sound right?

And I will get comprehensive bloodwork later this month. I was in the hospital a few days ago so I just asked to know my total test and estradiol levels.


UPDATE: today for my regular E3D T-cyp shot i increased the dosage to 70mg from 50mg to see if i notice positive differences. I figure if I do this and talk to my doc and explain that my levels were low before at 50 e3d and even worse at 100mg ew that I figured a small jump up couldnt hurt that much. im only doing this because i havent been able to get a call back from here in 2 weeks. im tired of waiitng. should i explain this all to my doctor or just shut my mouth, get her to order a blood test, and just drop back down to the original 100mg a week so that she can see how low my results are firsthand?

How would you guys handle this? suffer and continue at 50mg e3d or even worse try 100mg ew like she originally ordered so that my levels come back even poopier meaning she may increase my dosage even more? Im thinking if I do once weekly she will see the low trough, increase the dosage nicely and then i can on my own do e3d distributions....

FYI: when doing the 100mg weekly, the two days after the shot felt great. if i were to be able to do 200mg a week, split e3d i think i would be in heaven.

help! so many ways of handling this rightnow

 

[JanSz]

thanks to all who replied, especially pmgamer. your information is topnotch.

so to summarize:

1.) Start HCG
2.) Check T4 levels? and T3?
3.) Check prolactin
4.) Discontinue Zinc

sound right?

And I will get comprehensive bloodwork later this month. I was in the hospital a few days ago so I just asked to know my total test and estradiol levels.


UPDATE: today for my regular E3D T-cyp shot i increased the dosage to 70mg from 50mg to see if i notice positive differences. I figure if I do this and talk to my doc and explain that my levels were low before at 50 e3d and even worse at 100mg ew that I figured a small jump up couldnt hurt that much. im only doing this because i havent been able to get a call back from here in 2 weeks. im tired of waiitng. should i explain this all to my doctor or just shut my mouth, get her to order a blood test, and just drop back down to the original 100mg a week so that she can see how low my results are firsthand?

How would you guys handle this? suffer and continue at 50mg e3d or even worse try 100mg ew like she originally ordered so that my levels come back even poopier meaning she may increase my dosage even more? Im thinking if I do once weekly she will see the low trough, increase the dosage nicely and then i can on my own do e3d distributions....

FYI: when doing the 100mg weekly, the two days after the shot felt great. if i were to be able to do 200mg a week, split e3d i think i would be in heaven.

help! so many ways of handling this rightnow

50-55mg/every 3 days should be enough.
The only way to know is to go to Quest and do
(Free BioAvailable and Total testosterone).
Draw blood at Quest. If you already are taking shots do blood draw at Quest on the day of the test before t shot.
Do also E2 sensitive, TotaE and Estrone.
You want to be at the top of either Free or BAT, let the other fall where it wants. Adjust the dose according to test results.

You want to be at (10-30) with E2, to get lower use really small amounts of LiquiDex, equal to 1/8 of Arimidex pill.

Use DIM compounds and TMG to deal with high TotalE and or Estrone.

There are many other factors to watch for.
If you can, do extensive blood test that I post from time to time.

 

[hardasnails1973]

50-55mg/every 3 days should be enough.
The only way to know is to go to Quest and do
(Free BioAvailable and Total testosterone).
Draw blood at Quest. If you already are taking shots do blood draw at Quest on the day of the test before t shot.
Do also E2 sensitive, TotaE and Estrone.
You want to be at the top of either Free or BAT, let the other fall where it wants. Adjust the dose according to test results.

You want to be at (10-30) with E2, to get lower use really small amounts of LiquiDex, equal to 1/8 of Arimidex pill.

Use DIM compounds and TMG to deal with high TotalE and or Estrone.
There are many other factors to watch for.
If you can, do extensive blood test that I post from time to time.

He needs to check esterone alot of guys I know have normal e2 but e1 is really high. So in this case armidex would not be needed but 150 mgs DIM and 500 TMG, 500 mgs calcium d glucurate, 1 tsp carlsons fish oils. Despite conflicting reports dim changes estrogen of e1 and e2 though as prgmmer pointed out you must have something in order to get something. SO it may be possible that DIm does lower e2 in some cases. Jury is still out !! but in janzs case it did not but also he was doing pregnenone creame to so it may have kept it from rising..

 

[JanSz]

He needs to check esterone alot of guys I know have normal e2 but e1 is really high. So in this case armidex would not be needed but 150 mgs DIM and 500 TMG, 500 mgs calcium d glucurate, 1 tsp carlsons fish oils. Despite conflicting reports dim changes estrogen of e1 and e2 though as prgmmer pointed out you must have something in order to get something. SO it may be possible that DIm does lower e2 in some cases. Jury is still out !! but in janzs case it did not but also he was doing pregnenone creame to so it may have kept it from rising..

Yes;
Trust but verify.
Bottom line, take best action that is logical at the time,
verfy results using blood test.

 

[FOXDIE]

ok so check out this great news!

today i called my doctor

1.) told her im not satisified with my synthroid (levothyroxine) and that my temp is consistently low. she said i can start armour!

2.) told her my testosterone total levels peaked at 682 so she said i can start doing 150mg a week instead of 100. even better she said i can do 75mg e3d. didnt even have to worry about getting actualy blood results to her or anything.


when i informed her about my high prolactin and low e2 she said she doesnt "get into that". whatever ill self medicate for now i guess...

so will my increase of 100mg a week to 150mg a week raise my e2? or should i begin taking some dhea to get e2 up. (im hyoppituitary or whatver so i dont think my body makes dhea as well as it should anyway) i dont know my dhea levels right now...but its much more likely there lower given my background information and other blood results, then higher right?

and for prolactin i was gonna get some b6? 200mg a day sound right if im 14 on a scale of 4-17?

 

[pmgamer18]

FOXDIE one change at a time go up on the T shots and give it 4 weeks. When you switch to Armour go on 60mgs do 30mgs 2 times a day say morning and dinner I just put it undre my tongue. Keep track of your temps doing them 3 x's a day after your up 3 hrs. then do an avg. When you first go in it you temp avg. may go up when in about 2 weeks it goes back down if you feel hypo then up the dose 15mgs I did this every 2 weeks until I got to 2.5 grains then my temps stayed up for about 5 weeks then I went up 15mgs now I am holding at 3 grains my temps are steady and 98.6 to 98.8 the best I have seen them in a long time.

ok so check out this great news!

today i called my doctor

1.) told her im not satisified with my synthroid (levothyroxine) and that my temp is consistently low. she said i can start armour!

2.) told her my testosterone total levels peaked at 682 so she said i can start doing 150mg a week instead of 100. even better she said i can do 75mg e3d. didnt even have to worry about getting actualy blood results to her or anything.


when i informed her about my high prolactin and low e2 she said she doesnt "get into that". whatever ill self medicate for now i guess...

so will my increase of 100mg a week to 150mg a week raise my e2? or should i begin taking some dhea to get e2 up. (im hyoppituitary or whatver so i dont think my body makes dhea as well as it should anyway) i dont know my dhea levels right now...but its much more likely there lower given my background information and other blood results, then higher right?

and for prolactin i was gonna get some b6? 200mg a day sound right if im 14 on a scale of 4-17?

 

[hardasnails1973]

ok so check out this great news!

today i called my doctor

1.) told her im not satisified with my synthroid (levothyroxine) and that my temp is consistently low. she said i can start armour!

2.) told her my testosterone total levels peaked at 682 so she said i can start doing 150mg a week instead of 100. even better she said i can do 75mg e3d. didnt even have to worry about getting actualy blood results to her or anything.


when i informed her about my high prolactin and low e2 she said she doesnt "get into that". whatever ill self medicate for now i guess...

so will my increase of 100mg a week to 150mg a week raise my e2? or should i begin taking some dhea to get e2 up. (im hyoppituitary or whatver so i dont think my body makes dhea as well as it should anyway) i dont know my dhea levels right now...but its much more likely there lower given my background information and other blood results, then higher right?

and for prolactin i was gonna get some b6? 200mg a day sound right if im 14 on a scale of 4-17?

i think it would be better to add hcg in here 250 ius 2 days inbetween shots it should take you up to the 900 -1000 level as well as feed other pathways which you are in despereate need of and will also raise e2 and dhea at the same time. upping test could put extra stress on your adrenals. 120 mgs for a person in the 300 range takes them to 800-900..

 

[pmgamer18]

i think it would be better to add hcg in here 250 ius 2 days inbetween shots it should take you up to the 900 -1000 level as well as feed other pathways which you are in despereate need of and will also raise e2 and dhea at the same time. upping test could put extra stress on your adrenals. 120 mgs for a person in the 300 range takes them to 800-900..

Yes this is much better but I thought his Dr.would not give it to him HCG that is.

 

[FOXDIE]

ha yeah im just doing what i can for now until i can find another doctor. its hard im at college and there is no endo close by to see. Ill have to find a new one eventually. Plus i already spoke to her on the phone today and got new thyroid meds and increasead test inject levels just by talking to her, so i didnt want to push it. 20 minutes of her time on the phone and 2 advances forward in my treatment were enough for now i figured.

she doesnt even really get this stuff that well i dont think; i would be more surprised if she even knew why i would want to try hcg then if she was against it.

about the hcg though. what exactly does it affect differently then just taking additional T? is it measurables (levels) that it affects or morseo changes that the user can feel? is taking dhea each day to raise e2 and dhea a good alternative for now though?

and is it possible to have successful TRT and restore libido without using AI or HCG?

 

[hardasnails1973]

ha yeah im just doing what i can for now until i can find another doctor. its hard im at college and there is no endo close by to see. Ill have to find a new one eventually. Plus i already spoke to her on the phone today and got new thyroid meds and increasead test inject levels just by talking to her, so i didnt want to push it. 20 minutes of her time on the phone and 2 advances forward in my treatment were enough for now i figured.

she doesnt even really get this stuff that well i dont think; i would be more surprised if she even knew why i would want to try hcg then if she was against it.

about the hcg though. what exactly does it affect differently then just taking additional T? is it measurables (levels) that it affects or morseo changes that the user can feel? is taking dhea each day to raise e2 and dhea a good alternative for now though?

and is it possible to have successful TRT and restore libido without using AI or HCG?

full benefits are not recieved by 90% of the people until hcg is added after stable levels have been reached for a while.
With out HCG kiss your nuts good bye :toofunny:

 

[FOXDIE]

i was gonna ask my doc for hcg after i get my bloodwork back and my T levels are ok and my thyroid levels are ok...

does this make sense to handle these matters first then get hcg?

i guess i need to see a new doctor if she wont let me do hcg...

About prolactin:
also ive been reading...b6 in high dosages is apperntly bad for you longterm. should b6 use for prolactin reduction be used long term as long as the dose is safe? what do u guys recommend? or am i barking up the wrong tree? my prolactin is 14 so its gotta benefit me to lower it right? is b6 the cheapest safest way?

About dhea:
and about dhea...if im hypothyroid, and hypogonad, AND my e2 is low and i have low libido i would very much believe increasing dhea is a good idea. even more important is that it is said to help ulcerative colitis, of which i suffer horribly....is 100mg a solid dose to use daily? is it common for someone with my problems to have low levels or are they high in youngins like me? (22)...seems people here: dehydroepiandrosterone Community Ratings - Revolution Health
mostly are using 100mg 150mg and 200mg....should i be afraid to use that much? or is it just a matter of wasting my money and elevating dhea too high? thinkin bout starting at 100mg each day and then after a bit, adjusting it to see the differences

 

[plymouth city]

i was gonna ask my doc for hcg after i get my bloodwork back and my T levels are ok and my thyroid levels are ok...

does this make sense to handle these matters first then get hcg?

i guess i need to see a new doctor if she wont let me do hcg...

About prolactin:
also ive been reading...b6 in high dosages is apperntly bad for you longterm. should b6 use for prolactin reduction be used long term as long as the dose is safe? what do u guys recommend? or am i barking up the wrong tree? my prolactin is 14 so its gotta benefit me to lower it right? is b6 the cheapest safest way?

About dhea:
and about dhea...if im hypothyroid, and hypogonad, AND my e2 is low and i have low libido i would very much believe increasing dhea is a good idea. even more important is that it is said to help ulcerative colitis, of which i suffer horribly....is 100mg a solid dose to use daily? is it common for someone with my problems to have low levels or are they high in youngins like me? (22)...seems people here: dehydroepiandrosterone Community Ratings - Revolution Health
mostly are using 100mg 150mg and 200mg....should i be afraid to use that much? or is it just a matter of wasting my money and elevating dhea too high? thinkin bout starting at 100mg each day and then after a bit, adjusting it to see the differences

You need to take DHEA 2 times a day, with food, I would suggest starting at 50mg split up 2 times a day. It will increase T and E as well. If you could get your hands on pregnenolone that would be great as well. Frontload the body with T cream, DHEA and Pregnenolone and whatch that T and E go up

You need hcG soon, probably after 4-6 weeks in. Your young right? In college? If you want kids someday this is necessary, if not kiss your nutts goodby :frustrate

I sent you a link to get Dhea. Chech your PM. :afro:

My old way of thinking was to fix thyroid/adrenals first then T. I do not think this way anymore. T should be fixed first. More often than not, thyroid problems, unless they are really bad, often fix themselves with T. Same goes with E as well.

 

[JanSz]

You need to take DHEA 2 times a day, with food, I would suggest starting at 50mg split up 2 times a day. It will increase T and E as well. If you could get your hands on pregnenolone that would be great as well. Frontload the body with T cream, DHEA and Pregnenolone and whatch that T and E go up

You need hcG soon, probably after 4-6 weeks in. Your young right? In college? If you want kids someday this is necessary, if not kiss your nutts goodby :frustrate

I sent you a link to get Dhea. Chech your PM. :afro:

My old way of thinking was to fix thyroid/adrenals first then T. I do not think this way anymore. T should be fixed first. More often than not, thyroid problems, unless they are really bad, often fix themselves with T. Same goes with E as well.

After my experience with DHEA and pregnenolone pills I am firm believer in creams.
You can get creams at compounding pharmacy that contain
Testosterone
pregnenolone
DHEA
chrysin
probably more

In my case pregnenolone cream rised my DHEA to 3x max levels, something that megadoses of pills (DHEA and pregnenolone) taken for 3 years were not able to do.

 

[KSman]

HCG will also increase E2 as there is aromatase in the testes, which will be fueled by T levels that are 100 time higher than serum levels.

DHEA will lead to more E2 if there is enough E2. You can get 75 grams of bulk DHEA powder from bulk nutrition.

There is one of the bulk amino acids that is very restorative to the guts and might help with your condition.

 

[pmgamer18]

My old way of thinking was to fix thyroid/adrenals first then T. I do not think this way anymore. T should be fixed first. More often than not, thyroid problems, unless they are really bad, often fix themselves with T. Same goes with E as well.

I wish this were so but in a lot of the cases I have come accross men with low cortisol levels and low thyroid that went to T first stressed there Adrenals even more they just did not get past the fatigue. Most that get there adrenals stable on Cortef then treat there Thyroid when they test there Testosterone levels later find there levels come up. But we did find checking E2 first and if high getting it down it was very easy to treat the Adrenals and Thyroid E2 mess's up both and testosterone.

 

[KSman]

I wish this were so but in a lot of the cases I have come across men with low cortisol levels and low thyroid that went to T first stressed their Adrenals even more they just did not get past the fatigue. Most that get there adrenals stable on Cortef then treat there Thyroid when they test there Testosterone levels later find there levels come up. But we did find checking E2 first and if high getting it down it was very easy to treat the Adrenals and Thyroid E2 mess's up both and testosterone.

I suspect that there are two situations and one 'rule' will not fit both. There will be some who will balance the other systems when T is restored and there will be those where there are fundamental causes other than low T. In many cases, if the 'patient' has low T and minor issues with the other systems, perhaps doing TRT then re-checking the other systems at the first blood work might be workable. - judgement and experience -

 

[pmgamer18]

We are finding a lot of young men get tested show Total and Free T levels are low. There Dr. does not do more testing like Dr. John does and just puts them on TRT now this is for life and once you start on TRT and do it for a time. Your not going to find out if he is Secondary or Primary taking him off TRT and checking LH and FSH. A lot of them have low testosterone because they have Adrenal Fatigue or a bad Thyroid. And fixing this brings there levels back up. So they now don't need TRT.

I have come accorss young men trying to get there % of body fat down in diet and over working out. They start to feel bad fatigue with loss of libido. Then see a Dr. he test there Testosterone finds them low and just puts them on TRT. When all they needed to do was eat better and stop workingout to rest there body. I am sorry but the last thing one needs to do is go on TRT with out doing a mess of testing to find out why they are low and when they see why just fixing the problem there levels go up. I have talked to men with low T levels that were under a lot of stress. Take care of the stress and there T levels go back up. I have yet to see cortisol and thyroid levels get better on TRT.

 

[KSman]

We are finding a lot of young men get tested show Total and Free T levels are low. There Dr. does not do more testing like Dr. John does and just puts them on TRT now this is for life and once you start on TRT and do it for a time. Your not going to find out if he is Secondary or Primary taking him off TRT and checking LH and FSH. A lot of them have low testosterone because they have Adrenal Fatigue or a bad Thyroid. And fixing this brings there levels back up. So they now don't need TRT.

I have come accorss young men trying to get there % of body fat down in diet and over working out. They start to feel bad fatigue with loss of libido. Then see a Dr. he test there Testosterone finds them low and just puts them on TRT. When all they needed to do was eat better and stop workingout to rest there body. I am sorry but the last thing one needs to do is go on TRT with out doing a mess of testing to find out why they are low and when they see why just fixing the problem there levels go up. I have talked to men with low T levels that were under a lot of stress. Take care of the stress and there T levels go back up. I have yet to see cortisol and thyroid levels get better on TRT.

How is Adrenal Insufficiency checked/detected and then what
are the options for correcting that situation? Wondering about myself.

(My thyroid levels, TSH, T3, FT3, FT4 are all very close to dead center of reference ranges.)

 

[pmgamer18]

How is Adrenal Insufficiency checked/detected and then what
are the options for correcting that situation? Wondering about myself.

(My thyroid levels, TSH, T3, FT3, FT4 are all very close to dead center of reference ranges.)

By how you feel and your cortisol levels. First I did a morning fasting test about 8am for cortisol. My test come back low normal 8 my Dr. told me it was ok it's in the normal range. I did not say anything I ordered a Saliva test from the Canary Club.
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork/
This showed me to be in stage 5 of AI.
http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI 1 .html
I then showed this to my Dr. and we went around a little and I got him to order a acth stimulation my levels after 30 and 60 mins went up 3 x's so this told my Dr. I was Secondary. We all ready knew I has Hypopituitary so this made sence. He put me on Isocort this helped for a time this is sold OTC but not all the great so he put me on Cortef I do 10mgs in the morning and 5mgs at lunch and dinner time. Then because my Thyroid was mid range I got him to let me try armour and wow I started feeling better. Still had a lot of fatigue so we tested my Aldosterone and Renin levels I was low on Aldosterone and on the high side of Renin this tells us I am secondary makes sence. So 4 weeks ago I started on Florinef and take 1/2 tsp full of Sea Salt with it 2x's a day. Now I feel great.
Here is a good link on this and the Alsosterone and sodium wasting is near the bottom.
http://www.tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html
I most say if it were not for the net I would be in bad shape.

 

[JanSz]

How is Adrenal Insufficiency checked/detected and then what
are the options for correcting that situation? Wondering about myself.

(My thyroid levels, TSH, T3, FT3, FT4 are all very close to dead center of reference ranges.)

Speaking of FT3 it means that you are 50% from the top.
You should be 20% from the top.
Right here you could use 2-3 grains of Armour.

Free (T3)3.25pg/mL(2.3-4.2)

3.820 <--FT3 start of upper 20%
3.725 <--FT3 start of upper 25%
3.567 <--FT3 start of upper 33%
3.250 <--FT3 start of upper 50%

 

[KSman]

Speaking of FT3 it means that you are 50% from the top.
You should be 20% from the top.
Right here you could use 2-3 grains of Armour.

Free (T3)3.25pg/mL(2.3-4.2)

3.820 <--FT3 start of upper 20%
3.725 <--FT3 start of upper 25%
3.567 <--FT3 start of upper 33%
3.250 <--FT3 start of upper 50%

My FT3 was 3.2 in a ref range of 2.3 - 4.2 which is in the middle of the range, but at .75% of the 4.2

That is ok? You think that I should go from 3.2 -->3.8?

I used to be a non-stop always had to be doing something kind of guy until around 40 years. Lacking that get-up-and-go.

 

[pmgamer18]

My FT3 was 3.2 in a ref range of 2.3 - 4.2 which is in the middle of the range, but at .75% of the 4.2

That is ok? You think that I should go from 3.2 -->3.8?

I used to be a non-stop always had to be doing something kind of guy until around 40 years. Lacking that get-up-and-go.

Can you post your test with the units and ranges looks like you might do good on some Armour. You can try it and stop your Thyroid will just go back to where it was.

 

[JanSz]

My FT3 was 3.2 in a ref range of 2.3 - 4.2 which is in the middle of the range, but at .75% of the 4.2

That is ok? You think that I should go from 3.2 -->3.8?

I used to be a non-stop always had to be doing something kind of guy until around 40 years. Lacking that get-up-and-go.

3.2 is in lower 50%, you want to be in top 20%.
Try and see what happen.
What is your pulse and body temperature (mine was low)?
I had FreeT3=2.9
on 4grains of Armour
FreeT3=4.86 (over the range)
I now take 3grains, my temperature is about what is was in my younger days.
I use dr's script but also this:
Buy Armour (Armor), Titre, Eutirox Thyroid Online
I just ordered new batch, they told me it will take up to a month to get it.
I will have to call my dr. to call my pharmacy with a script, cannot wait a month, my supply is to short.

 

[KSman]

Can you post your test with the units and ranges looks like you might do good on some Armour. You can try it and stop your Thyroid will just go back to where it was.

I just got my LEF lab work. -labcorp

98mg test cyp per week as 28mg IM EOD, (#29 .5" .5ml)
250iu HCG SQ EOD, (#29 .5" .5ml)
1mg/wk of anastrozole in EOD doses

TT 1025
FT 36.1 (3.5%)
DHT 69
E2 22

DHEA-s 668 (70-310)

Thyroid: -looks good
TSH 1.303 (.35-5.500)
T4 5.4 (4.5-12.0)
T3 3.2 (2.3-12.0) would report as 320 at some labs
Free T4 1.32 (0.61-1.76)

Iron is high 239 (40-155), was low 3.5 years ago

hematocrit is 46%, was 44% before TRT, so no significant change

 

[pmgamer18]

That high Iron can mess up your thyroid do you take supplements with Iron in them. Men don't need Iron.

I just got my LEF lab work. -labcorp

98mg test cyp per week as 28mg IM EOD, (#29 .5" .5ml)
250iu HCG SQ EOD, (#29 .5" .5ml)
1mg/wk of anastrozole in EOD doses

TT 1025
FT 36.1 (3.5%)
DHT 69
E2 22

DHEA-s 668 (70-310)

Thyroid: -looks good
TSH 1.303 (.35-5.500)
T4 5.4 (4.5-12.0)
T3 3.2 (2.3-12.0) would report as 320 at some labs
Free T4 1.32 (0.61-1.76)

Iron is high 239 (40-155), was low 3.5 years ago

hematocrit is 46%, was 44% before TRT, so no significant change

 

[FOXDIE]

are you guys saying that if i had fixed my thyroid problem first, my testosterone level could very likely return to normal? am i stupidly on TRT at age 22 for life when i dont need to be?

wouldnt the doctor have run tests to see if something was fixable to get my testosterone levels up before putting me on TRT?

i feel like im in bad position all of a sudden...

 

[KSman]

are you guys saying that if i had fixed my thyroid problem first, my testosterone level could very likely return to normal? am i stupidly on TRT at age 22 for life when i dont need to be?

wouldnt the doctor have run tests to see if something was fixable to get my testosterone levels up before putting me on TRT?

i feel like im in bad position all of a sudden...

I would not jump to conclusions. If you need T, you need T. Meanwhile all paths can be explored.

Do you have symptoms of low thyroid? Low energy can also be from T. I am taking small dose Armour thyroid to shift from mid-range to higher levels as a trial.

Get the tests done. TSH, T3, FT3, t4, FT4

A pituitary problem could cause problems with T and thyroid levels. In that case, fixing one would not fix the other. And there are a few young guys with low T who do not have thyroid problems.

I have also seen that high serum iron can cause these type of problems.

LEF includes iron in their male panel blood work and their CBC test.

The LEF blood work sale has been extended until June 4th. I am ordering 1 year's blood work for my TRT and now thyroid levels. The lab orders expire after 6 months, but with a phone call, they will reprint with a new date. I will be asking if some can be 'post dated' and will find out if that can be done.

If the timing is right, one can purchase and get tested during the April-May sale, and buy tests for one's needs 6 months after. So for some, they will only need to purchase 6 months out and not 12. So one might purchase one set of BW for immediate use and one for 6 months out.

 

[JanSz]

I just got my LEF lab work. -labcorp

98mg test cyp per week as 28mg IM EOD, (#29 .5" .5ml)
250iu HCG SQ EOD, (#29 .5" .5ml)
1mg/wk of anastrozole in EOD doses

TT 1025
FT 36.1 (3.5%)
DHT 69
E2 22

DHEA-s 668 (70-310)

Thyroid: -looks good
TSH 1.303 (.35-5.500)
T4 5.4 (4.5-12.0)
T3 3.2 (2.3-12.0) would report as 320 at some labs
Free T4 1.32 (0.61-1.76)

Iron is high 239 (40-155), was low 3.5 years ago

hematocrit is 46%, was 44% before TRT, so no significant change

I would like to note high TT level achieved with 98mg/week

When was the blood drawn?
Are you testis supported and still working?

 

[KSman]

I would like to note high TT level achieved with 98mg/week

When was the blood drawn?
Are you testis supported and still working?

The blood draw was 24 hrs after my EOD injections of T+HCG.

My TT on 100mg/wk, weekly injections, at day 3.5, was 886. Adding the HCG took me to 1025 will reducing T to 98/wk.

So the testes did respond to the HCG. TT went up and, testes recovered size and scrotum dropped.

 

[JanSz]

The blood draw was 24 hrs after my EOD injections of T+HCG.

My TT on 100mg/wk, weekly injections, at day 3.5, was 886. Adding the HCG took me to 1025 will reducing T to 98/wk.

So the testes did respond to the HCG. TT went up and, testes recovered size and scrotum dropped.

So the 1025 is not your maximum or minimum.

I would opt for blood draw on the day of the shot but right before the shot.

 

[KSman]

So the 1025 is not your maximum or minimum.

I would opt for blood draw on the day of the shot but right before the shot.

With small EOD doses with a few fading active injection sites. I expect that the lift during the day of injection is very small. The levels should be very constant. I started with HCG and T every day for 3 or 4 weeks, just to get dead level to be able to evaluate later changes. Then went to EOD injections and I did not notice any change. My age management specialist has aways wanted mid-cycle BW.

 

[JanSz]

With small EOD doses with a few fading active injection sites. I expect that the lift during the day of injection is very small. The levels should be very constant. I started with HCG and T every day for 3 or 4 weeks, just to get dead level to be able to evaluate later changes. Then went to EOD injections and I did not notice any change. My age management specialist has aways wanted mid-cycle BW.

Anything else you age management specialist did that you would like to mention.
Specially if it is in contrast to what we think here.

Anything on Estrogen management from him that you would like to share?
And please do not name him, that could put some lid on freedom of communication.

 

[KSman]

Anything else your age management specialist did that you would like to mention.
Specially if it is in contrast to what we think here.

Anything on Estrogen management from him that you would like to share?
And please do not name him, that could put some lid on freedom of communication.

Not much to add.

You feel that my thinking on these things is from left field?

I worked out and started the EOD on my own, judging that overlapping fading injection sites would be smooth. My doc is open minded and agreed that is was ok. I started that on my own, staying within my prescribed weekly dose. He also feels that with things been so driven by individual response, only the patient can know how things are working and what works best. The AI was something that I did not understand, even after much reading. But when he listened to how I was feeling and put me on AI, suddenly a normal life was revealed. I had high T and all the symptoms of low T. E was making a mess of things. So I am a anti-E zealot now I guess. My appointments are 1 hour, sometimes longer and we often go over one or two pages of notes I have made. Names? I would never do that without prior permission. I am surprised that you bring that up.

If there is something that might be different about how my doc does things, I guess, after reading about some of the stuff that some guy go through, is that he listens very carefully and he really wants one to have an excellent outcome. He is very enthusiastic and has a passion about what he does. We have a great time talking about my care and some social issues that are going on that we all are, or should be concerned about. I have read about health/nutrition issues for years and we have a common understanding on many things.

There are a lot of really good HRT docs out there, but as we see, many guys are falling through the cracks.

 

[JanSz]

Not much to add.

You feel that my thinking on these things is from left field?

I worked out and started the EOD on my own, judging that overlapping fading injection sites would be smooth. My doc is open minded and agreed that is was ok. I started that on my own, staying within my prescribed weekly dose. He also feels that with things been so driven by individual response, only the patient can know how things are working and what works best. The AI was something that I did not understand, even after much reading. But when he listened to how I was feeling and put me on AI, suddenly a normal life was revealed. I had high T and all the symptoms of low T. E was making a mess of things. So I am a anti-E zealot now I guess. My appointments are 1 hour, sometimes longer and we often go over one or two pages of notes I have made. Names? I would never do that without prior permission. I am surprised that you bring that up.

If there is something that might be different about how my doc does things, I guess, after reading about some of the stuff that some guy go through, is that he listens very carefully and he really wants one to have an excellent outcome. He is very enthusiastic and has a passion about what he does. We have a great time talking about my care and some social issues that are going on that we all are, or should be concerned about. I have read about health/nutrition issues for years and we have a common understanding on many things.

There are a lot of really good HRT docs out there, but as we see, many guys are falling through the cracks.

What do you test to figure out your E status?
How do you read test results?
What medicine and supplements you use in an efort to manage E's?
Thank you for sharing.

 

[KSman]

What do you test to figure out your E status?
How do you read test results?
What medicine and supplements you use in an effort to manage E's?
Thank you for sharing.

I have only the basic E2 results. I found a few statements suggesting that E2=17-20 is optimal from a libido point of view and does not create any lipid problems that can occur when E2 is to low. I had read many things, but only knew that my libido and energy sucked. My doc picked up on my "notes" of how I was doing and put me on AI. I also explained that I was not as I see him, as I am excited and ethusiastic when I see him, but otherwise was not doing well. With my turnaround with E2 lowered, all of the theory that I had read about over the years suddenly made sense. Sort of kids do not understand fire until they get burned.

I had tried the LEF Mira-forte, some other pre-ban oral AI. Neither seemed to make me feel better at all. Concluded that I was not good at absorbing. Tried a transdermal of the oral AI with alcohol and DMSO... no luck. I was stunned at how effective 1mg/wk of anastrozole was. And in liquid form, how inexpensive compared to chrysin. Chrysin is expensive, even before LEF compounds with it.

I have not tried DIM. But have taken IC3 (?) for a long term, not knowing then what it might do.

So at this point, the only thing that I do take for anti-E seems to be the anastrozole. I also take a lot of LEF supplements, including fish oil. Have started on a red rice product as well - not from LEF.

I assume that the AI has lowered my free E2 and SHBG.

If I had free E2 numbers, I would not know what to do with them in terms of needing to change that or how to do such a thing.

 

[JanSz]

I have only the basic E2 results. I found a few statements suggesting that E2=17-20 is optimal from a libido point of view and does not create any lipid problems that can occur when E2 is to low. I had read many things, but only knew that my libido and energy sucked. My doc picked up on my "notes" of how I was doing and put me on AI. I also explained that I was not as I see him, as I am excited and ethusiastic when I see him, but otherwise was not doing well. With my turnaround with E2 lowered, all of the theory that I had read about over the years suddenly made sense. Sort of kids do not understand fire until they get burned.

I had tried the LEF Mira-forte, some other pre-ban oral AI. Neither seemed to make me feel better at all. Concluded that I was not good at absorbing. Tried a transdermal of the oral AI with alcohol and DMSO... no luck. I was stunned at how effective 1mg/wk of anastrozole was. And in liquid form, how inexpensive compared to chrysin. Chrysin is expensive, even before LEF compounds with it.

I have not tried DIM. But have taken IC3 (?) for a long term, not knowing then what it might do.

So at this point, the only thing that I do take for anti-E seems to be the anastrozole. I also take a lot of LEF supplements, including fish oil. Have started on a red rice product as well - not from LEF.

I assume that the AI has lowered my free E2 and SHBG.

If I had free E2 numbers, I would not know what to do with them in terms of needing to change that or how to do such a thing.

Be careful with Red Yeast Rice.
Take it with lots of CoQ10.
I cant wait for my next cholesterol test.
My cholesterol went from 230 while on Sytrinol to 153 when I added Red Yeast Rice (RYR).
I stopped Sytrinol and am thinking that possibly I should reduce RYR dose from 1200 to 600, one pill instead of two.
The goal for cholesterol is 180-200 after all.

Wish I could do testing more often.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Be careful with Red Yeast Rice.
Take it with lots of CoQ10.
I cant wait for my next cholesterol test.
My cholesterol went from 230 while on Sytrinol to 153 when I added Red Yeast Rice (RYR).
I stopped Sytrinol and am thinking that possibly I should reduce RYR dose from 1200 to 600, one pill instead of two.
The goal for cholesterol is 180-200 after all.

Wish I could do testing more often.

Good to see you are not driving cholesterol down into the ground like most people think less is better

 

[plymouth city]

Not much to add.

You feel that my thinking on these things is from left field?

.

Absolutely not. Dr Shippen is a leader in this HRT field and has been there forever. He has been an advocate of increased dosing schedules for awile now. I have read about alot of his guys being on E3D dosing. Your EOD dosing is new in this game, however, Dr Shippen has defied the norm of past years and pushed for more frequent injects.

I still feel like TD's are the future of HRT, methods of better absorbtion need to be pushed further so everyone is a responder.

 

[FOXDIE]

yeah i do have thyroid problems ksman. i have hypothyroidism and hypogonadism that occured at the same time. these conditions began after i "began" ulcerative colitis. since around the first colitis flare, everything slowly went to ****. i now enjoy higher testosterone levels and fixed thyroid through test cyp shots and armour. problem is i have a cloudy mind and NO, ABSOLUTELY NO LIBIDO. i havent felt horny in even the slightest bit in months. i never have sex dreams.

strange thing to note: today i skipped my test injection this morning. i usually do it every third morning. while out today i got random boners for no reason twice and my mind felt clearer. then it got muddled again and no erection action, even after trying to become aroused... i was thinkin maybe as my test level lowered my e2 did too and i was able to enjoy the benefits...problem is, like i stated before, my doctor told me my estradiol was 7! this is retarded low. youd think it would be higher.

i started taking 150mg of dhea a day to help colitis and be my ghetto-hcg for now. i have noticed acne and new hair growth on hands and innner arms begin. this is most likely due to the dhea not the increased test levels because going from 300 TT to 700 TT didnt increase hair growth that much, so i doubt that increasing from 700 TT to 900 TT would be responsible.

if dhea is making me grow more hair does that mean its increasing my e2, test, and dht?


and i noticed on my blood test that i have high prolactin. this could very well be why im not horny. i DO get morning erections. but no night ones and no daytime ones usually. i am not aroused by women or porn, but i can get my **** going and perform either way. its just not the same when your mind is driving you to bang and not your libido.

well that was a mouthful. let me know your thoughts on whether i need AI, need an anti-AI haha, what to do about prolactin, etc

thanks!

 

[FOXDIE]

by the way i started taking wellbutrin which is an norepinephrine and dopamine reuptake inhibitor. (antidepresant). i started at 150mg of the extended release. i heard alot about this drug helping libido rocket and more importantly the fact that dopamine combats prolactin.

if i have no libido to being with then this may not help i guess. ive been on it three days now with no increase in libido...should i wait longer?

could my problem all this time be that my free T is low? that my total t is being binded by shbg or whatever?


this just in "Prolactins down-regulates the estrogen receptors" i just read that in a message board. if thats true that makes perfect sense. my prolactin is up and estrogen is down. maybe if i do take wellbutrin it will raise dopamine increasing sex drive, lower prolactin, increasing sex drive, and raise my estrogen to proper levels, increasing sex drive...if this is all true is it stupid to take wellbutrinw when i can get cabergoline instead? whats the difference to me what i use?

this also just in: prolactin that is high can lead to lower testosterone levels. do you guys think i have a ****ed up pituitary and thats why i have alll this **** going on, or that my prolactin being lowered could increase my testosterone levels to normal?

 

[KSman]

Absolutely not. Dr Shippen is a leader in this HRT field and has been there forever. He has been an advocate of increased dosing schedules for awile now. I have read about alot of his guys being on E3D dosing. Your EOD dosing is new in this game, however, Dr Shippen has defied the norm of past years and pushed for more frequent injects.

I still feel like TD's are the future of HRT, methods of better absorbtion need to be pushed further so everyone is a responder.

My main influence with the T EOD was probably to be able to do that at the same time as my HCG 250iu SQ EOD... just easier to live with and not be complicated or injecting every day.

 

[KSman]

yeah i do have thyroid problems ksman. i have hypothyroidism and hypogonadism that occured at the same time. these conditions began after i "began" ulcerative colitis. since around the first colitis flare, everything slowly went to ****. i now enjoy higher testosterone levels and fixed thyroid through test cyp shots and armour. problem is i have a cloudy mind and NO, ABSOLUTELY NO LIBIDO. i havent felt horny in even the slightest bit in months. i never have sex dreams.

strange thing to note: today i skipped my test injection this morning. i usually do it every third morning. while out today i got random boners for no reason twice and my mind felt clearer. then it got muddled again and no erection action, even after trying to become aroused... i was thinkin maybe as my test level lowered my e2 did too and i was able to enjoy the benefits...problem is, like i stated before, my doctor told me my estradiol was 7! this is retarded low. youd think it would be higher.

i started taking 150mg of dhea a day to help colitis and be my ghetto-hcg for now. i have noticed acne and new hair growth on hands and innner arms begin. this is most likely due to the dhea not the increased test levels because going from 300 TT to 700 TT didnt increase hair growth that much, so i doubt that increasing from 700 TT to 900 TT would be responsible.

if dhea is making me grow more hair does that mean its increasing my e2, test, and dht?


and i noticed on my blood test that i have high prolactin. this could very well be why im not horny. i DO get morning erections. but no night ones and no daytime ones usually. i am not aroused by women or porn, but i can get my **** going and perform either way. its just not the same when your mind is driving you to bang and not your libido.

well that was a mouthful. let me know your thoughts on whether i need AI, need an anti-AI haha, what to do about prolactin, etc

thanks!

I can see more DHEA leading to more T if DHEA had been low and the testes are working and able to convert it. But if TRT has your HPTA shut down, I don't know how that would happen without HCG.

Can you get cabergoline?... it is indicated for prolactin. The Welbutrin may not be a good solution. Your situation seems very complex and gets into things that I do not understand much about.

 

[FOXDIE]

ok so i figure i shouldnt be changing all this stuff at once. ive only tried wellbutrin for three days so im gonna stop it.

i started last night taking 400mg of b6 hoping that that will lower prolactin so i dont have to use meds

what does dhea do for me then? so testosterone levels wont go up, but dhea has many benefits besides that i assume. im using it anyway because its supposed to help colitis too. 150mg a day.

 

[JanSz]

My main influence with the T EOD was probably to be able to do that at the same time as my HCG 250iu SQ EOD... just easier to live with and not be complicated or injecting every day.

It is also my way of thinking, convenience.

Two shots (T+HCG) one day,
the other day vacation from shots.
Next I am going to be working on pre-filling and storing syringes, so I could get week or 10 days cycle.
----------------------------------
I am already prefiling my supplements for 18 days ahead.
I also take them only twice a day.

 

[plymouth city]

It is also my way of thinking, convenience.

Two shots (T+HCG) one day,
the other day vacation from shots.
Next I am going to be working on pre-filling and storing syringes, so I could get week or 10 days cycle.
----------------------------------
I am already prefiling my supplements for 18 days ahead.
I also take them only twice a day.

You do know that you can reuse the same syringe all week right? Load up a weeks worth of T and shoot EOD till it runs out.

Millions of diabetics do this safely.