Cortisol...

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  1. I tried all kinds of supplements and the only one that worked was Isocort I took 4 pills in the morning = 10mgs of cortisol and 2 pills at noon and dinner = 5mgs each of cortisol. I felt better just taking one pill when I started. You need to work your way up on them. Here is a cut & paste of a post to a Bill I did sometime ago on how I started treating my Thyroid and Adrenals.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Bill sorry to hear you have this problem your cortisol is lower then my first test I was 8. The ACTH Stim test will show if it's you Adrenals or your Pituitary not sending the message ACTH to your Adrenals to make Cortisol. Here is a link to Chris's Explaination of the ACTH test you need to read this I have seen posts where Dr.'s did it wrong. You need to be sure you understand about this test and how to read it.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness :: View topic - My explaination of the ACTH stimulation test.

    Most people find out they have low cortisol because they have a low Thyroid Problem one needs cortisol to carry the thyroid hormone from the blood to the cells. If there cortisol is low do to Adrenal Fatigue there is not enough cortisol to do this and as they up there meds they start to feel hyper because the hormone is going to high in the blood and not being carried to the cells. One big cause of Adrenal Fatigue is a low Thyroid the Adrenals work over time to bring up levels of thyroid and become fatigued.

    Now we are finding a lot of men with low T had Adrenal Fatigue do to the stress of low T be it from the fatigue of low T or the high Estradiol. But it's dam odd that as men hear about this and are not feeling 100% on TRT that after a blood test there cortisol levels are low.

    The first thing I did was to try and figure out what stage of Adrenal Fatigue I was at and it looked like stage 3.
    Large Selye Chart

    Then I went to this site and printed out a chart for tracking your body's temps. I would take it under my arm before getting out of bed for 10 min.'s if it is under 97.8 you have a thyroid problem my temps that I did were for 4 morning and then I did an avg. it was 95.8.
    Temperature Patterns of low adrenal and thyroid function
    Using this to take my temps it is also sold at Wall-Greens and Wal-mart.
    Thermometer

    Then after I was up for 3 hrs I took my temp every 3 hrs 3 to 4 times a day and did an avg. My avg. was low between 96.8 to 97.6 and each day was up or down this is Adrenal Fatigue.

    I then ordered a Saliva Test through this link.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness » Those durn Adrenals!!
    From the Canary Club for about $140.00 this is the best way to test cortisol levels and DHEA.

    Then I bought the book "Adrenal Fatigue The 21st. Century by Wilson. This book was a big help in understanding this problem but doing what he said to treat it with stuff like this did nothing to my temp chart. It has this in it Pituitary Extract (Freeze-Dried) 120 mg
    Adrenal Cortex Extract 33 mg and cortisol but you have no idea how much.
    20% Off PhytoPharmica End Fatigue Adrenal Stress-End, formerly known as Adrenal Soluble Fractions,50 capsules, PhytoPharmica - PhytoPharmica Energy 20% Off
    Also he said to do B Vit.s.
    20% Off PhytoPharmica End Fatigue Daily Energy B Complex, 30 capsules, PhytoPharmica - PhytoPharmica Energy 20% Off
    Vit. C
    Solaray Super Bio C - Buffered, 1000 mg., 360 capsules, Solaray - Solaray C Vitamins 50% Off
    Everyone with low Cortisol has low DHEA I take this 2 a day.
    PhytoPharmica DHEA-25, 60 caps, PhytoPharmica - PhytoPharmica Immune System 25% Off
    I take 3 grams of a good brand of Fish OIL. I buy mine at Coscos (spelling) I get the one that is coated so you don't burp it up.
    And there is Maca this helps keep your Adrenal hormones leveled. I was off this for 30 days and just went back on it I feel better on this. I do 1/2 tsp 2 x's a day. This is the best price and product on he web.
    Maca Power® - 454g/1 lbs Raw Maca Powder

    I dropped the Adrenal cortex
    20% Off PhytoPharmica End Fatigue Adrenal Stress-End, formerly known as Adrenal Soluble Fractions,50 capsules, PhytoPharmica - PhytoPharmica Energy 20% Off
    It did nothing.

    I got some Isocort and started on it it is made from sheep adrenal's and wow the first pill made me feel good you need to start this slow. I did 4 pills = 10mgs. of cortisol first thing in the morning with food and 2 pills = 5mgs. of cortisol at noon and dinner. This changed my chart my temps come up to 98.4 to 99 but still up and down if your avg. is up or down from day to day more then .2 tenths your cortisol is still to low. I followed this to get started.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness » How to treat adrenals–for the patient and their doctors
    My Dr. would not give me Hydrocortisone said it's not safe to use. So I got this book by Dr. Jefferies "Safe Uses of Cortisol"
    Home Page of William McK. Jefferies, M.D.
    http://www.ccthomas.com/details.cfm?P_ISBN=039807500X
    Showed this to my Dr. and he blew it off and pissed me off.
    I got up to 120mgs of Armour and could not do more my charting even showed my Adrenals were not right to go higher. So I switched to HC and stated with 10mgs. in the morning wow in less then a week my temps were a straight line across at 98.6 first time in 8 months of charting things were looking good and I was feeling better. So if you need to treat your Adrenals the best place for help is Val. at this link.
    Stop The Thyroid Madness :: View Forum - ADRENALS and THYROID
    Most of the people posting there are Thyroid and Adrenal Fatigue but she helps for Adrenals only too. Do get your thyroid checked have the TSH, Free T4 and Free T3 checked and post them to her.
    Wow this was a long post hope it helps.
    Phil


    [QUOTE=christopher;735188]
    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post

    Adrenal Herbal Support

    Adrenal Rebuilder Formula

    lodaed for 2 weeks on iodide and then started on NATURE-THYROID (TM) NT-1 ....they are 1 grain tabs and I take 1/2 tab daily in am.....Western research is the co.

    Naturethroid -- Thyroid Drug Information Database -- Thyroid Drugs & Manufacturers -- Synthroid, Levothyroxine, Armour, Cytomel, T3 and More


  2. When i was taking DHEA, HCG cortef, testosterone I was having vivid dreams and since stopping HCG, dhea all them have stopped. Would this be an indication that rem sleep has also declined?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    When i was taking DHEA, HCG cortef, testosterone I was having vivid dreams and since stopping HCG, dhea all them have stopped. Would this be an indication that rem sleep has also declined?
    what are you talkin about man...?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by christopher View Post
    what are you talkin about man...?
    Ability to dream ..

  5. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    When i was taking DHEA, HCG cortef, testosterone I was having vivid dreams and since stopping HCG, dhea all them have stopped. Would this be an indication that rem sleep has also declined?
    I stopped dreaming long ago, 10-15 years.
    I think that must have been time when I started on T decline.
    Taking DHEA, Testosterone for few years, did not changed my dream situation.
    Lately I added Cortef, Armour and HCG.
    One of them, looks like HCG, infuences dreams.
    I am 16 days since starting HCG, had 6-7 dreams.
    Either pleasant or neutral.
    In the past, infrequently I would have very stressfull dream.

    HCG is good, my testicles are almost right.
    Scrotum is relaxed but only half way.
    Before my TRT it used to hang very low, that would cause pain.

    --------
    When my testicles are good and ready, I would like to get closer look at my varicocele.
    How to ask for this, there are number of tests;
    manual
    MRI
    ultrasound
    any thing else
    I need more details, so I can tell my doctor what I want.
    He 100% cooperates (so far).
    --------
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I stopped dreaming long ago, 10-15 years.
    I think that must have been time when I started on T decline.
    Taking DHEA, Testosterone for few years, did not changed my dream situation.
    Lately I added Cortef, Armour and HCG.
    One of them, looks like HCG, infuences dreams.
    I am 16 days since starting HCG, had 6-7 dreams.
    Either pleasant or neutral.
    In the past, infrequently I would have very stressfull dream.

    HCG is good, my testicles are almost right.
    Scrotum is relaxed but only half way.
    Before my TRT it used to hang very low, that would cause pain.
    --------
    When my testicles are good and ready, I would like to get closer look at my varicocele.
    How to ask for this, there are number of tests;
    manual
    MRI
    ultrasound
    any thing else
    I need more details, so I can tell my doctor what I want.
    He 100% cooperates (so far).
    --------


    I agree 100% that HCG was the missing key for returning me back to my healthy state. I felt like my old self on it and my dreams where colorful vivid and I could remember them like I did before getting ill. Now I just sleep and do not ever hit that deep sleep like I used to.

    Due to the fact that I had elevated DHA and EPA in my RBC fatty acid test. i stopped all fish oils for almost 8 months to help to rebalance out thing. I just started to introduce them in other day and I could feel a sustain energy. I am doing only 1 tsp a day is all and going to eat more samon and use things in moderation not like naturopath told me 3 tsp a day.

  7. if your using melatonin, that will give some dreams as well. Ive had some good ones lately, which have been very helpful for psych-analysis sessions.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Scottyo View Post
    if your using melatonin, that will give some dreams as well. Ive had some good ones lately, which have been very helpful for psych-analysis sessions.
    Couple of years ago advisor from LEF told me to drop melatonin. I do not remember his reasoning.
    Anybody cares to make a guess of when melatonin is not indicated.
    ------
    While I was using melatonin, I do not think it had any influence on my dreams, dreams were absent with or without melatonin.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Couple of years ago advisor from LEF told me to drop melatonin. I do not remember his reasoning.
    Anybody cares to make a guess of when melatonin is not indicated.
    ------
    While I was using melatonin, I do not think it had any influence on my dreams, dreams were absent with or without melatonin.
    Entrez PubMed

    Entrez PubMed

    progrmmer and Jansz I found this interseting about progesterone and dhea-s interactions and how HCG can actually increase dhea production and may indicated reduction in dhea supplementation. This might explain why we feel better on HCG when added to TRT due to the fact that increasing HCG would increase progesterone and body converts where it needs it IE if you are cortisol then it would be shunted to dhea pathway to counter balance it. Dr john is one brillant guy.

  10. This is a good find thanks
    Phil
    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Entrez PubMed

    Entrez PubMed

    progrmmer and Jansz I found this interseting about progesterone and dhea-s interactions and how HCG can actually increase dhea production and may indicated reduction in dhea supplementation. This might explain why we feel better on HCG when added to TRT due to the fact that increasing HCG would increase progesterone and body converts where it needs it IE if you are cortisol then it would be shunted to dhea pathway to counter balance it. Dr john is one brillant guy.

  11. More eveidence to support HCG increasing DHEA

    CAT.INIST.FR
    Reason Dhea increases t4 to t3 in the liver is because it is also reduces lipid perioxidation PRetty cool huh LOL

  12. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Entrez PubMed

    Entrez PubMed

    progrmmer and Jansz I found this interseting about progesterone and dhea-s interactions and how HCG can actually increase dhea production and may indicated reduction in dhea supplementation. This might explain why we feel better on HCG when added to TRT due to the fact that increasing HCG would increase progesterone and body converts where it needs it IE if you are cortisol then it would be shunted to dhea pathway to counter balance it. Dr john is one brillant guy.

    I though that progesterone supplementation in males was NOT recommended...?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by christopher View Post
    I though that progesterone supplementation in males was NOT recommended...?
    You are not supplementing Progesterone directly you are using hcg to stimulate pathways that will give the body the option which way the pathway goes. Its totally different.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    You are not supplementing Progesterone directly you are using hcg to stimulate pathways that will give the body the option which way the pathway goes. Its totally different.

    so essentally, you are saying that the hormone progesterone, bioidentically produced and supplemented, is not a valid option for males, yet, stimulating progesterone production via HCG supplementation is a valid choice...?

    So assuming low progesterone levels, and progesterone serves as a natural anti-aromatase and 5 ar inhibitor, HCG is a better solution that direct supplementation via bio-id prog...?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by christopher View Post
    so essentally, you are saying that the hormone progesterone, bioidentically produced and supplemented, is not a valid option for males, yet, stimulating progesterone production via HCG supplementation is a valid choice...?

    So assuming low progesterone levels, and progesterone serves as a natural anti-aromatase and 5 ar inhibitor, HCG is a better solution that direct supplementation via bio-id prog...?
    Yep and dr john is highly against progesterone creame big time!! from his past post. not only will stimulate the LH hormone, but also stimulate cytochrome p 450 which is start the whole cascade of hormonal events. Interesting huh. But you need to be on HRT to get the full benefits and supplement all pathways. I just found that DHEA levels are relfelctive of free testosterone levels in a study and in my case and pretty much majority of the cases I can see this being a factor because cortisol can lower your testosterone as well as your free. So supplementing cortisol if low is fine but one needs to complement it with dhea to off set the catabolic site effects from it.. Dhea ans all other hormones need to be monitored by a physcian

  16. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    . But you need to be on HRT to get the full benefits and supplement all pathways.
    can u explain this...?

  17. You should not HCG unless being monitored by DR while on HRT. Its nothing to experiment with..

  18. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    You should not HCG unless being monitored by DR while on HRT. Its nothing to experiment with..

    yeah, but I meant the "supplement all of the pathways" statement.....

  19. Hcg stimulates the cytochrome P450 which triggers progesterone, cortisol, LH, estrogen, pregnanolone, dhea, ect

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-...ocol-john.html

  20. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Hcg stimulates the cytochrome P450 which triggers progesterone, cortisol, LH, estrogen, pregnanolone, dhea, ect
    got ya....basically, you are saying that hcg, and its relationship w/test and its supplementation, is the key to acheiving "BALANCE"...? And, that while progesterone is not to be supplemented directly, it is an essenial piece is achieving overall balance ......?

    So, my confusion surrounding progesterone was not the hormones necessity, but how to stimulate appropriate levels.....

  21. Quote Originally Posted by christopher View Post
    so essentally, you are saying that the hormone progesterone, bioidentically produced and supplemented, is not a valid option for males, yet, stimulating progesterone production via HCG supplementation is a valid choice...?

    So assuming low progesterone levels, and progesterone serves as a natural anti-aromatase and 5 ar inhibitor, HCG is a better solution that direct supplementation via bio-id prog...?
    Is this statement correct. Anybody with references, please post them.

    My tests:
    Progesterone----1.4ng/dL (0.3-1.2)
    Pregnenolone----23ng/dL (10–200) LOW

  22. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Is this statement correct. Anybody with references, please post them.

    My tests:
    Progesterone----1.4ng/dL (0.3-1.2)
    Pregnenolone----23ng/dL (10–200) LOW
    Because low thyroid
    Several studies verify low hypothyroid run parellel with low dhea-s and pregnenolone levels

    Ok jansz would low esteogen levels prevent you from being able to build muscle probably due to inability to retain sodium is my guess.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Because low thyroid
    Several studies verify low hypothyroid
    .

    you can verify by taking temp. under arm in am before arising ....

  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by christopher
    so essentally, you are saying that the hormone progesterone, bioidentically produced and supplemented, is not a valid option for males, yet, stimulating progesterone production via HCG supplementation is a valid choice...?

    So assuming low progesterone levels, and progesterone serves as a natural anti-aromatase and 5 ar inhibitor, HCG is a better solution that direct supplementation via bio-id prog...?

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Is this statement correct. Anybody with references, please post them.

    My tests:
    Progesterone----1.4ng/dL (0.3-1.2)
    Pregnenolone----23ng/dL (10–200) LOW

    The reason I was supplementing w/progesterone..... ""Progestrone may help to inhibit the conversion of androgens to estrogens as well as serve as a precursor for cortisol synthesis when cortisol levels are low...Progesterone is also a natural inhibitor of 5-alpha reductase, which converts testosterone to dihydrotesterone (DHT) within target cells. Thus adaqueate progesterone, which is both anti-estrogen as well as anti androgen, amy play an important role in preventing growth of prostate cancer""" ZRT Labs Summary and recommendations after my saliva tests.....

    I need to get my progesterone levels retested by a different method to verify that they are low, since Dr John told me saliva test for progesterone is invalid......But, if you are losing hair and defecient in progesterone.....Fin works as a 5-ar inhibitor only, with unreliable results/side effects, while prog is a naturally occuring hormone in the body which serves in a similar fashion...although it has feminizing effects in large dose, or perhapps any dose bio-identically, stimulating it through alternate supplementation to achieve healthy levels should work more effectively that implementing propecia/advodart to correct a condition that does not involve an imbalance, and perhaps creating one.....That ties into multiple theories of the cause of hairloss, dht and estrogen, and IMO, helps to achieve balance....Balance is the goal or any trt or bio-id program, and alos in the hairloss game...i think they ALL tie together .....Balance is also key is psychological well bieng also....

    Noone is defecient in propecia......
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