VARICOCELE...can it effect testosterone?
- 12-20-2006, 06:07 PM
- 12-20-2006, 06:32 PM
Yes, varicocele will lower testosterone levels. Mines went from 26/7nmol day of getting varicocele (due to injury that caused vascular dysfunction) to 14nmol over a period of 3 months due to the varicocele causing testicular dysfunction and atrophy. Do you have any atrophy/shrinkage on the testicle?
- 12-20-2006, 08:08 PM
yes the left one seems smaller. did you get it fixed? and did you recover after the operation?
12-21-2006, 06:12 AM
It's possible the varicocele is causing lower testosterone levels but other factor's can cause this also.
No improvement in size since getting the operation but it's early days. I am hoping with the use of HCG + Clomid i will regain normal testicular function. Your testicle is actually damaged because of the varicocele and need's to heal.
12-21-2006, 06:48 AM
I am 66yo. I have got varicocele, probably 4 or 5 years ago. I had very relaxed scrotum and pain in testicle. I assumed that the pain was due to testicle having that much extra room to fall down. Now I see that varicocele must have been primary, then low testosterone then relaxed scrotum. To stop pain I was using tight briefs. I also started having ED problems, but at the time I did not know anything about testosterone, so I was using over the counter remedies that at first helped but not for long.Originally Posted by Megazoid
I am on Androgel now planing to change to a 10% cream, my scrotum is very thight, do pain, testis are small and soft.
What is the usual experience with varicocele removal? Is the testicle restarting T production again?
If that is so, is it advisable to do the surgery at my age? I am thinking that I could possibly restart my testis with HCG and use only minimal amount of T creme. That could possibly be a good way to control E2 and DHT.
12-21-2006, 08:14 AM
JanSz, it's possible that the varicocele caused your low testosterone. Varicoceles are vastly over looked in the medical world for various reasons. These caused blood flow issues to the testicle that impair function. If left for too long it can cause tissue death and damage the testicle.
By using TRT you would have already caused more harm than good to the testicle and maybe atrophy to the leydig cells that produce testosterone.
In general, testicles won't be respond over the age of 40 to HCG but it might still be worth trying. Phil (pmgamer) managed to get his testicles back working and he is in the same age bracket as you.
I don't think there would be any harm in getting that varicocele removed if you're in good health. It's a painless operation and you will walk away a few hour's later. Did the varicocele cause any atrophy for you JanSz?
There is still some "hope" that HCG "could" work for you. It might be worth giving it a try.
12-21-2006, 09:52 AM
Right now, after 2.5years of Androgel and no HCG, my testicles are soft and small. Scrotum is most of the time very tight, when it relaxes it is only a little bit relaxed. There is never any pain (as it used to be).Originally Posted by Megazoid
I am not sure varicocele caused testicle atrophy, I would say no. The atrophy started after I got on Androgel. Then again, I was not watching them that close.
I learned about my varicocele at the sex doctor (director of sex department at university hospital in Manhattan NY, plus he is active in many other places). I wish there were no such a usless doctors around. He did not ofered me any hope or help. I happen to have on my desk a questionare from that hospital asking about my apprisal of their services. I am using that hospital for my enlarged prostate and sarcoma in my tigh.
Since english is my second language I could use some help in formulating my request to them about getting involved in anti-aging medicine. Many of their clients are older men. Many of them do not have prostate cancer but are low on testosterone and not getting any help from their sexual health department. They use a lot of nice words but are not backing it with any action.
12-21-2006, 10:17 AM
Drop me a message on meso forums JanSz and i'll help you out.
12-21-2006, 04:11 PM
Thanks for the help. I cant wait to get this thing fixed so I can be normal again.
12-21-2006, 05:04 PM
Thank you.Originally Posted by Megazoid
I have send PM to you on meso board.
12-21-2006, 07:33 PM
12-21-2006, 07:43 PM
12-21-2006, 07:48 PM
12-21-2006, 07:55 PM
12-21-2006, 10:03 PM
What do you mean "underlying condition"?Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
Thanks for the link JanSz, it seems like it would go ok, but it is not without a few risks. For my situation, I dont have any atrophy so for now its not worth the risk. I do have low T issues due to finasteride, but my problems are finasteride related, not the verecocele.
12-22-2006, 04:23 AM
Getting the nut sack cut open isnt that bad because ive had a vasectomy. I would rather go under the knife just to make sure this thing goes away.
12-24-2006, 12:10 PM
12-30-2006, 09:58 AM
Anybody else have any advice on this?
12-30-2006, 10:44 AM
I had a varicocele, my left testicle was a little atrophied. I went ahead with the surgery, it's a simple operation. The first week sucks after the surgery, because your nuts are swollen and sore. I would just get an ultrasound to see if they're atrophied, that's why my doc recommended I get it fixed. Varicocele can lead to infertility if not corrected.
12-30-2006, 03:22 PM
My testicles are atrophied that I can tell, especially my left one where the varicocele is. I am not worried about infertility because ive already had a vasectomy, I just want to get my testosterone back to normal. I have an consultation with a urologist on Jan 8th and hopefully they can get me an appointment to get this fixed as soon as possible because I feel so miserable and depressed. Maybe I can get a script for Testosterone in the mean time.
01-02-2007, 06:27 PM
01-02-2007, 06:37 PM
Feel for you Hyde, but don't do TRT just yet. I have been in contact with a few urologists and a TRT expert and they both think HCG should work in our case (as long as our LH/FSH are normal). How big is the varicocele in size? Have you had an ultrasound to confirm?
Get it embolized if possible (less painful and no surgery required). I had this done and the varicocele is away now, just need to use the HCG to regain nut size and function (and hopefully T levels).
If you need to know anything else, just ask.
01-02-2007, 06:40 PM
Your nut size should come back on it's own once the varicocele is removed, right? I had one removed a few months ago, the doc didn't even mention HCG or anything to bring it back..
01-03-2007, 04:44 AM
Yes, I did have an ultrasound and it seems pretty big because I can feel it with my hand. I think what happened is that when the military familiy practice doctor did my Vasectomey he did not tie the two ends of the Vas. together so both ends were left floating around in there and it seems like one of the ends is wrapped around the rest of the cords and restricting the blood flow and thus causing the varicocele. Thats my opinion but I will wait and see what the Urologist says in a couple of days. I plan on using Clomid once I get it fixed. Clomid is awesome. You should run Clomid instead of HCG IMO.Originally Posted by Megazoid
01-03-2007, 07:09 AM
I am intrested in hearing more about this Clomid scheme. My nut is atrophied pretty bad and i think running HCG would be the best bet in this situation (seen as our nut's are actually damaged to a degree). I was also scared of the side-effects with clomid (on the liver for example).
Do you find clomid restores nut size well?
01-03-2007, 03:48 PM
I had a varicocele in my left nut when I was in my early twenties and yes, it it very uncomfortable, painfull and awkward espescialy in bed. My Doc had my sperm level tested to see if it had affected that function of the testicle and my count came back fine, but if untreated it's just gonna get worse and worse. All they did to me was make a small insition (an inch and a half) about two inches above the genitals, go in and tie off the varicocele and closed me up. After being tied off, the blood flow stops and over time the varicocele gets smaller and smaller till its gone. It's just day surgery, you feel like someone is crushing you ball for the first few days with the pain, but they give ya lots of pain killers to take care of that. No heavy lifting for two to three months after the operation. Beats the hell out of that discomfort for the rest of my life though. It's not risky surgery at all.
01-03-2007, 04:28 PM
Clomid isnt liver toxic. Yes it does restore your nuts. It would not work for me until I get the Varicocele fixed.Originally Posted by Megazoid
01-07-2007, 12:14 PM
Whats the progress with the varicocele Hyde? You getting these thing's treated?
01-09-2007, 04:29 AM
Well, I went to the Urologist yesterday and he said that my testosterone was in the normal level, but he put me on androgel anyway just to see if it will increase my libido (very cool doctor). He told me that a varicocele will not effect testosterone, which I didnt think to be true from what ive read on the internet. He told me that we will talk about getting the varicocele fixed when I come back to him next month with my androgel report. I dont know if being on androgel will cause them not to be able to fix the varicocle on not. I was planning on getting the varicocele fixed and then running a good PCT with clomid or Torm.Originally Posted by Megazoid
01-09-2007, 07:26 AM
Hyde, urologists told me this and i witnessed by testicular atrophy and my levels drop down in blood work due to the varicocele getting larger and more difficult to deal with. They actually cause more pain/damage. You need to complain of pain and discomfort, this is the language of urologists.
It's important to remember that going on androgel could induce further atrophy and in turn cause more testicular damage. When your LH is normal all the leydig cell's are being stimulated and won't atrophy.
What are your current levels sitting at?
01-09-2007, 01:58 PM
last time I had them checked they were at 303. Well, I already started the androgel yesterday and today. I am not going to be seen again for another month. should I stop the androgel? I dont really feel anything yet. how long does it take for this stuff to kick in?
01-22-2007, 04:49 AM
01-22-2007, 07:37 AM
Well Hyde, i got my varicocele fixed a few months ago and still no improvements this far. The problem is you can't actually "fix" varicoceles because they have a high chance of recoccuring and because the operation doesn't always work right. I have heard from 3 guy's in the past month (via email) that had normal sized testicles but varicoceles repaired 2/3 years ago and still have low t now with no proper explanation. All three were under 30.
Varicocele causes progressive testicular damage and sometimes the only answer is repairing it but still needing TRT for life. HCG sometimes works but i think the best plan is to use TRT + HCG (maybe Test Cyp + HCG) or a compound cream. Nothing can really be done for varicocele sufferers, i've met a few of them and almost all are on TRT now. HCG might be worth giving a go to spark any life left out of your testicles.
01-22-2007, 10:24 AM
Did you try clomid yet? Have you been on TRT the whole time? I tried the andro gel for about a week (5grams) and I felt worse then before so I stopped taking it. Im going to get this thing fixed and do a post cycle therapy type protocal.Originally Posted by Megazoid
01-22-2007, 10:28 AM
Megazoid, I was looking at your last posts and it seems as though you were on andro gel after you got your varicocle fixed. This could be why you have seen no improvements in testicle function because they are shut down and will not recover. Have you tried Tormifiene?
01-22-2007, 02:06 PM
Much like you Hyde, i was on TRT only for about a month. I took an allergic skin reaction towards both Androgel and Testim. So i stopped TRT and went solo. However about a day before stopping TRT i got blood taken/tested and my LH/FSH were still in the normal range (LH = 2.4, FSH = 2.1) so all the 50mg a day did was drop my LH from 3.9 to 2.4.
I know for a fact that my LH/FSH are back in range now as they always went back up after stopping TRT.
The fact is varicoceles cause progressive testicular damage and only in some situations does this reverse but it appears not to be normal.
01-23-2007, 04:48 AM
When you stopped using androgel for that month did you use any post cycle therapy? If you didnt then your testicles would have a hard time recovering even if you didnt have the varicocele. HCG is not a proper post cycle therapy and from what I have read on here and other places it can cause shutdown on its own. You need to get some Clomid/Nolvadex or some Tormifene. You wont get much post cycle therapy advice on here, but you will in the post cycle therapy section of this forum. I believe that with God's help after this surgery that my testicles will heal. Im not just going to sit back and kiss my natural Testosterone good bye.Originally Posted by Megazoid
01-23-2007, 09:19 AM
I got a blood test run about a week later and my LH had went back to 3.9 on it's own (the original level before TRT).
I do respect your attitude but the problem really is that varicoceles are misunderstood and cause all sort's of testicular problems including internal fibrosis, blood vessel problems, over-heating, etc. Because our nut's have atrophied, damage has been done. This isn't like what secondary hypogonadism suffers experience but actual tissue death (and in most cases cell death). The LeyDig cells dysfunction and cause spikes and valleys in the the T levels.
I've spent almost 4 month so far researching this because much like you i didn't want to give up and had hope, hower this faded when almost all research and urologists pointed to the fact that re-growth dosen't happen in varicocele patients due to the progressive damage caused by varicoceles. It "might" (just "might" be possible) to reverse some of this using HCG.
In "some" cases HCG will regain size and function. If you are young and your testicles are still somewhat in-tact then HCG will work in about 5 out of 10 cases. One urologist suggested 500iu 3 times a week, while another suggested 250iu daily for 3/6 weeks then followed by Nolvadex (20mg) for 4 weeks to restart the HPTA.
I have a few questions for you.
1) How long have you had the varicoceles for?
2) How much atrophy/shrinkage have you experienced since the varicoceles?
3) Have you noticed any skin changes on your scrotum/penis?
4) Is your scrotum constantly "tight" all the time?
5) Can you post recent blood work?
I will keep you posted on my own findings too.
01-23-2007, 05:34 PM
1) I have had my varicocele for about 6 months nowOriginally Posted by Megazoid
2)I have a little atrophy in my left testicle, but not too bad
3)no skin changes but it seems to be kind of lifeless if you know what I mean
4)not all the time. my testicles still drop, but not like they used to
5)my last total test reading was 303 I cant remember what the fsh and lh were, but they were withing range
how do you feel on TRT?
01-23-2007, 05:58 PM
Strangely i had my varicocele for about 6 months too and it caused all manner of problems, in a sentence, my nut's went nut's!
When i went on Androgel i felt pretty good. I had a strange reaction though with my skin (Rash) and not to mention my HPTA still kicking about. I didn't get any shutdown and my total T went back up to 25.1 and my LH/FSH still remained in a very normal (if not 'highish') range. I was getting good benefits from TRT but i didn't like the fact that i was flushing alot and the skin reactions. Otherwise i did notice erection improvements and morning wood more often. My penis also plumped back out to it's normal size and wasn't shrunk up (not sure if you are experiencing this also?).
The problem with TRT is that your nut sack get's like ultra tight all the time and if you have a varicocele it can hurt like hell.
If i am doing TRT again i will be using HCG to promote testicular size and health improvements and to prevent the tight sack thing.
In general are your testicles normal size (2+ inches)? Do they feel different at all (weight, size, density, etc)?
How large is the varicocele (roughly)?
Was your LH around 3/4 (this is considered the "normal level", 2 or below isn't normal)?
I am considering running either Test E + HCG (2/3 times a week) or Testim/Androgel + HCG (3 times a week or more).
Like you i want my natural levels back but this might not be fully possible unless given time so i need to compensate.
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