My Road To Being Me Again
- 11-20-2006, 07:57 PM
My Road To Being Me Again
I heard about this board over on BB and thought I would stop by and learn all that I can. Man am I ever glad I did! What an absolute treasure to find this forum! Please allow me to get right to the point.
My wife and I had always enjoyed an active and healthy sex life until I started experiencing ED almost 8 years ago. I'll admit I didn't take good care of myself, and it took awhile for me to get tired of it. I guess I just accepted it as getting old, even though I was in my early 40's.
Then Viagra hit the market! Man was I a happy camper! 25mg's and I was good to go......only now I couldn't orgasm on the stuff. No worries, I took care of the wife and suffered with the headaches, nausea, etc... All of a sudden, those don't work, so the dosage goes up to 100mg, nothing. I had my test levels checked and was told they were "normal".
Flash forward 2 more years and one night it hit me.....I really had no desire for sex anymore. I couldn't remember the last time I had a morning erection. I was sleepy all the time with no energy, and couldn't have cared less. The wife and I hadn't had (or even attempted) sex in over 8 months!
I finally decided to get serious. First thing I did was join the gym with my son and started lifting. That was 3 years ago. Next, I quit smoking 2.5 years ago. And finally, I completely quit drinking. Results? Nada, nothing, ziltch. ED was worse than ever, I was getting the famous pot belly, still had no desire for sex, and was even starting to loose strength in the gym.
So, I went back to my GP and ask to see a Urologist (I'm retired military and I need a consult before my insurance will pay for specialists). After researching and reading everything I could find, I was beginning to think I suffered from low testosterone. I found a site called AllThingsMale and found it to be full of information! So anyway, the Urologist listens to my complaints, asks a boatload of questions and takes a blood test, gives me Lavitra to try and wants to see me in 3 weeks. I go back (Lavitra doesn't work for me either) and he tells me my testosterone is "normal" but "low-normal" (480ng/dl on a scale of 350-1250). He also says my testicles were much smaller than he expected (I didn't notice since they weren't being put to use). So he puts me on Androgel at 5mg per day and wants me back in 3 months.
I saw him again this last Friday after 3 months of Androgel and I've stopped getting "fatter" and have actually gained a little strength. ED is still persistent, although not as severe. I can now get an erection, but maintaining it is a problem. Hey, I'm starting to gain some ground finally! After describing to him how I generally feel (not as tired and actually feel kinda good about life again) and the results of Androgel, he has now put me on Test C @ 100mg per week. He is allowing me to do this at home after showing him I could inject myself in his office. Talk about a gut check! I've never done anabolic steroids, and I wasn't sure I could handle injecting myself. Turned out to be a piece of cake....toally painless. My second injection is on Friday again, as soon as the pharmacy can fill my Rx.
That is where I am. Seems from reading here though (including all the stickies), I may need to check into my Dr. giving me HCG as well to keep my boys happy, even though they may not be producing much as it is.
Thanks for your patience and if you read this much and wish to offer any advice, I'm all ears. If not, that's cool to. I'm reading all the posts I can.
- 11-20-2006, 08:22 PM
SoMDHunter I hope all goes well.Ive had ED on post cycle and it led to to more problems.After Failing to launch a few times it led to emotional stressers between my wife and I.It took a while to talk our way through her feelings of rejection(me not being attracted to her((those were her thoughts))) and me feeling inadequate but with time and communication things are better than ever.
Like I said before I hope all goes well and if your wife is feeling like my wife did dont be afraid to talk it out.Its a little unnerving doing this but it pays off big time in the long run.
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths . Proverbs 3:5-6
- 11-20-2006, 08:47 PM
SoMdHunter - You haven't mentioned E2. Is it where it should be? Would you mind posting lab results along with the lab's ranges?
11-21-2006, 06:21 PM
I hear ya mmowry. The wife has been extremely supportive through all of this. She has the patience of Job. Things between us are excellent, but I can tell she misses the "good ol days". Like you mentioned, she felt rejected as well, and I felt less of a man. But hopefully we are getting there! Thanks for the reply.Originally Posted by mmowry
11-21-2006, 06:25 PM
Nah dave....don't mind at all, I'll post them. I have to get them from my GP who also ran some testosterone level checks. I'm not sure if he did a full hormonal panel test or not. I'll let ya know what I find out Monday. I surely do appreciate this.Originally Posted by kincaiddave
I did try a few natural test boosters and found that DS NHA stack gave me morning erections again. This was how I started exploring the low test theory. So it is certainly worth looking into. And on a final side note, I woke up last night to roll over and get more comfortable and realized I has a full erection. Talk about putting me in a good mood today! Thanks again!
11-26-2006, 07:10 PM
I saw your post over on BB.com. I suspect no E2 testing was ever done. I also found a word document over there, posted by BigJimCalhoune that lists a bunch of items that should be tested. I'm thinking I need to stop the injections and let my hormone levels correct themselves and start from scratch again. Thoughts?Originally Posted by kincaiddave
11-26-2006, 07:32 PM
I'd say get ahold of those lab results and post them along with the lab's ranges. Then you can get help from others here that know a lot more than I do.
If your tests show adrenal and thyroid functions doing well, I don't think there is anything wrong with starting the shots. You are only at 14% of your lab's range on T, so you certainly could use some help there.
It's best to determine why you are low if possible, before the TRT is started.
11-27-2006, 07:55 PM
I talked to my GP today, and the only blood tests they ran was for total and free test levels. So now I need to get more blood work done. After reading a sticky in this section though, I think I do in fact have high estrogen due to what would appear to be one significant symptom......and that is a greatly reduced sensation during sex! I never knew that!Originally Posted by kincaiddave
I'm thinking I need to stop my weekly injections to allow my T levels to come back down, get more blood tests done to see how they compare to my T level baseline, and also check the estrogen levels. I just hope I haven't screwed myself up yet.
11-27-2006, 08:39 PM
I'm hoping someone else will jump in here and help out. If it were me, I wouldn't stop the injections just yet. After all this time on the gel and now the injections, it's going to take weeks at best to get back to baseline and you're not going to be a happy camper during the process. I'd say get the "Follow-Up Labs" tests done listed on Dr. John's site and post the results here.
11-27-2006, 09:15 PM
That is exactly what I plan on doing. I'm also going to see if I can get to an Endo. My Urlogist is doing his best, but this may be more complicated than expected. By and large, 3 things have convinced me of an estrogen related issue. The lack of sensation during sex, my gaining fat especially around my mid-section, and a test booster I tried (which is supposed to work by lowering estrogen) which produced morning erections for the first time in years. Man this is getting complicated!Originally Posted by kincaiddave
11-28-2006, 07:51 PM
Originally Posted by pmgamer18
You both sound like your Estradiol is up on the high side need it tested and good test for men like this one.
I use an OTC product called Indolplex/DIM to keep my E2 in check worked for a long time.
PhytoPharmica Indolplex with DIM
Today I use Arimidex but feel men should try this first Arimidex is dam strong and you can go to low very fast. Have you been tested for Thyroid a TSH, Free T3 and FREE T4 men that don't do good on gels could have thick skin do to a bad thyroid. If in doing shots 100mgs every week and you feel up and down with big problems with high E2 try doing the shots 2 x's a week or every 3 days.
If you try the DIM don't take more then one tablet at dinner time or you will go down dam fast and miss the libido coming back with morning wood.
The short answer is no, no estradial testing has been done on me, nor has any thyroid levels (at least not to my knowledge).
I'm going to get that checked as well. The biggest reason I believe I have an estrogen related problem is severe ED, lack of response to Androgel (and so far a lack of response to the Test C), still no libido, no morning wood (although I have noticed some partial nocturnal erections) and especially the loss of sensation when attempting sex.
According to the reading I have done here, Dr. John recommends a 5 week test after starting on HRT. Since my next (3rd) injection is in a couple of days, I thought I would try to time my blood work to his 5 week recommendation. The biggest reason is that I am probably already shutdown now, and want to avoid the low test crash.
This is all very new to me, and I'm certainly open to suppestions. But essentially it will be very difficult to nail down the problem without the necessary blood work.
Now, if DIM is an OTC, I wonder if it is worth a try to see if I see any improvement? I've never heard of this, and it would certainly be worth a try, especially if my estrogen levels come back high.
11-29-2006, 09:49 AM
Whatewer you do, do it in steady maner for at least few weeks before blood work.Originally Posted by SoMdHunter
That way you will have a better indication of what needs to be adjusted.
11-29-2006, 06:20 PM
Appreciate it JanSz. I'm going to stay with the weekly injections until week 5, then I'm going to get tested again. I'm curious as to where my testosterone and E2 levels will be at. I'm due for my next one tomorrow.
12-01-2006, 05:27 PM
A quick update so I can keep track of things.
Last night was my 3rd injection in the right glute, followed up by my shoulder and traps routine today at the gym. Strength was down more than I had hoped, and still no morning wood to report. On a good note, I CAN say that I'm starting to feel more "in the mood"...that is to say I'm a bit more interested. Other than that, ED is still present.
I plan on staying with it till week 5, then get the blood work done. I'm going to restrain from any type of AI for now, since this will most likely skew the blood tests and not give me an accurate picture of what is going on.
If I notice any change, for better or worse, I'll post it. I would like to thank everyone for all the comments and advice to date.
12-05-2006, 06:47 PM
Just an update so I can keep track of events. I've noticed my nipples are erect all the time as I get ready to enter my 4th week of the injections. They aren't puffy or overly sensitive, but they certainly are erect.
Something I will mention to the Dr. when I see him for more blood work at week 5.
12-05-2006, 07:44 PM
Just curious: what is your current height, weight and BF%? Your age?Originally Posted by SoMdHunter
I probably have too much fat on my body, but I suppose erect nipples would be a good sign if I continue to get in better shape.
Thanks, and good luck!
12-06-2006, 07:57 PM
I'm 6'2" 210lbs and about 18% bodyfat and just turned 50 last July. Most of the fat I am carrying around my middle and I can't seem to loose it.Originally Posted by wildfox
It just so happens my GP goes to the same gym I do. We were talking last night and he said that by looking at me, there is no way I should have low test levels since I have been able to add at least some muscle mass. So he went back and checked my blood work from awhile back. Total test was 460 (350-1250 scale) and free was 12.1 (9-25 scale). The blood was drawn around 10:00 am, so he expected it to be higher.
I don't know that erect nipples are a good thing or not, but I don't think so. They are starting to get pretty sensitive due to the erectness all the time. I'm watching them closely though, and so far that is the only thing I have noticed. Thanks for the post.
12-07-2006, 04:33 PM
Here is a link to OTC Indolplex/DIM and some links about it.
PhytoPharmica Indolplex with DIM
I would only take one tablet at dinner time if you do more you can go down so fast you will miss feeling better and go to low I did good on one half a tablet for a long time.
PhytoPharmica Indolplex with DIM
All About Diindolylmethane
Originally Posted by SoMdHunter
12-07-2006, 07:23 PM
Yeah, thanks pmgamer! I got that bookmarked, and I very much appreciate the information. But I'm going to hold off to see where I am before adding another variable into an already complex situation.
12-07-2006, 08:16 PM
An update for those that maybe tracking this thread. Today is my injection day. I have noticed my nipples are nearly as erect as they have been. (Reduction in E2 perhaps?)
Strength in the gym has been excellent the last couple of days, but today it was down a bit. Nothing serious, but certainly worth noting. I'll do my 100mg of Test C tonight and see how it goes the next couple of days. Still no wood to report.
It seems I may have a very narrow range in which all my hormones function properly. Very weird, since I was having nocturnal wood about a week ago, and now it is gone.
I'm really curious about my blood levels. Only 2 more weeks before I get my blood tested.
12-08-2006, 01:41 PM
My wood comes and goes doing armidex it is just to dam hard to find a dose you can take everyday and keep good wood. like today I know I went to low so I did not take it. By tonight I will have good wood but if I don't take something by morning I will be to high it is dam hard to stay on top of this. Wood is gone when E2 is to high or to low.
Originally Posted by SoMdHunter
12-08-2006, 06:56 PM
I'd be happy just to get it up a couple of times a week! I'm still waiting to even get horny, and although sex is on my mind lately, but I can't really say I am horny at all. But I'm hard headed and not about to give up.
Also a miserable update from last night.
Seems I really did something wrong last night. My injection didn't go as planned, and I mean not even close! There was more pain than I have ever felt pushing the needle was all the way in. The actual injection caused even more pain. By the time I got all the oil in me, I was in terrible pain! I mean this mother put me on my knees. Not sure what happened, but I went into shock with a cold sweat, extremely weak, nauseous as hell followed by terrible throbbing pain at the injection site.
I believe I was too far down my leg, on top of my left quad. My research indicates I need to be more to the side of my quad and not as far down. Sure do hope that is it, cause last night was no joke. No way could I tolerate that again. Naturally I'm nervious as hell about my next one. Something I will just have to learn though. Only have one more and then blood tests. So we will see.
12-08-2006, 07:06 PM
I go up and down the side of my thigh so I am not using the same spots and have done what you did. This is why I do my shots in the morning this way if I go through a vain or hit a nerve I am not up all night long in pain. Also doing my shots at night keeps me up. What size needle to you use I use a 27 g 1ml x 1/2" lg. needle and I do my shots every 3 days this keep the dose down and my levels more stable. E2 is much better doing this.
Originally Posted by SoMdHunter
12-08-2006, 07:24 PM
Hey Phil.Originally Posted by pmgamer18
I used a 25g 3ml x 1" long. That is what my Rx was for. This was the same size, length I used in the Dr office the 1st time on my left quad with absolutely zero pain. I mean nada, nothing. Totally painless. Obviously last night I was in a different spot on my quad. I don't know if I went through a vein, hit a nerve or what since I am new to this. I also found tghe oil is tougher to push through the needle than I thought it would be. I can't imagine how tough it would be with a 27g. But what ever I did, I sure hope I don't do it again!
12-08-2006, 07:30 PM
You need to push it in slow so you don't tear up tissue anyway. I pull the plunger all the way down and hold it until I get my does take only about a min. to get .25 mls yet I pull down more so I can push it back in the vile to get air out.Originally Posted by SoMdHunter
12-08-2006, 07:54 PM
I've only done twenty or thirty shots, so I'm not the expert, but maybe someone will comment on anything wrong with what I do and we will all learn.
I use the same size needle that Phil does, 27g x 1/2". It takes a long time to draw the oil/T out of the vial, but I can wait. Since I'm doing shots daily I don't need to use a harpoon every day.
It seems that I have more problems when I shoot closer to my knee. I hit a nerve once (it was with a longer needle before I switched to 1/2") and just stopped pushing in further and injected there. It wasn't as bad as you described.
Also closer to the knee I have hit veins close to the skin that makes it bleed maybe 1/8 of a teespoon when I pull the needle out. No blood when I aspirate.
When I inject I push it in slowly and stop for a few seconds about three times. After it is all in I wait for about thirty seconds before I pop the needle out and then massage the area.
I'm guessing that you hit a nerve and sounds like maybe you are pushing too fast when you inject. Is that possible? You say you couldn't imagine how tough it would be with a 27g needle. It's not that tough, but it does take a while.
I started drawing from the vial with one needle and switching to a fresh/sharp needle for injecting. Needles are cheap and I had a few that hurt more than a fresh needle after using them to draw from the vial.
12-08-2006, 08:10 PM
Thanks for the comments! Maybe I WAS trying to inject too quickly. With a 25g, the oil seems tough as hell trying to push it through that small of a needle, so yeah, a 27g will certainly take longer. I thought I was doing it all correctly. It could have been a couple of things, like hitting a nerve or close to it AND pushing too fast.Originally Posted by kincaiddave
I always change needles after drawing from the vial. I draw with a 23g and inject with the 25g. Guess I could have found a dull needle as well, but what are the odds of everything going so badly at the same time? Once the terror subsides, I'll be ready to try again. Actually I thought about doing another one tonight to get my confidence back, but that isn't the purpose of HRT. Next week will be my right quad, more to the outer side and up closer to my hip (away from the knee).
Thanks again for the suggestions.
12-09-2006, 01:12 PM
12-10-2006, 06:20 PM
How about pull out the plunger and just draw it with another syringe and just stick head of needle in and shot it into the other syringe and the just put plunger back on when done
or better draw with normal needle and i had tips that you just switch to 27 gauge half inch and just shoot it in
12-10-2006, 06:27 PM
12-11-2006, 09:49 AM
Don't forget to "aspirate" the needle before injecting the oil, so that you are sure you are not in a blood vessel. If it goes in easy, that could be trouble.
12-11-2006, 09:56 AM
true but a few airpockets are not going to kill you. Now a cc or more then you might have a slight problem. It may be have to be injected more into a vein for it to do damage. With 27 gauge 1/2 inch i do not think you need to worry. Now year ago when I was just starting out my freind use to litterallly use my azz as a dart board when giving me shots. Luckily he had good aim LOL How were we to know we were young and naive. Best time I had was giving a newbe a shot. i get and 18 gauge 2.5 inch needle and load it up and be like ok you ready.Originally Posted by wildfox
Should have seen look on his face..kodak moment definetly. Those were the good old day (sigh)
12-11-2006, 04:21 PM
It's true that a tiny airbubble or two won't hurt....in muscle tissue. A "bolus" (ball) of oil in a blood vessel will hurt on its way the heart where it will kill.
12-11-2006, 08:52 PM
LMAO! Man that is funny! Like using a spear gun on the poor guy!Originally Posted by hardasnails1973
My Rx was for 25g 1", so that is what I am stuck with. I'll be ok when it is time for the next one. All though I must admit a bit of anxiety until all goes well again.
12-11-2006, 08:55 PM
I aspirated, so I don't think that was the problem. I think I was too much on top of my quad and too close to the knee. Even injecting the oil hurt like hell, so it beats me. Next time will be a bit more on the side just a tad. Really do appreciate the comments though.Originally Posted by wildfox
12-12-2006, 01:43 PM
12-12-2006, 07:51 PM
Thanks gamer. I went there and found out I was a way too much on top of my quad and too far down (close to the knee). I probably hit right in between where the 2 muscles come together. In a couple of days, I'll be sure to get more slightly off center and on the upper quad more.Originally Posted by pmgamer18
12-13-2006, 06:43 PM
An update to my thread. Tomorrow will be injection #5 and the TRT is more noticeable. For the first time in years I am actually getting horny! I'm starting to get 3/4 erections when we start fouling around, so at least I am seeing an improvement! The wife and I have plans for a Friday session of sex. After all this time, I may have a bit of a confidence problem, but we will see.
Tomorow's injection will be another quad shot. I've done my homework, and don't expect the results I got with the last one.
12-13-2006, 06:53 PM
12-13-2006, 07:16 PM
Just so happens my Dr. gave me some to try. I haven't responded to Viagra or Levitra in a long time, so we will see. But trust me, I plan on giving it (or in this case her) all I've got!Originally Posted by pmgamer18
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