DIM

**LMuscle** · 05-07-2017, 02:08 PM

Does DIM only lower estrogen, or does it lower other hormones as well? Will it lower estradiol so much as to cause joint pain? I was thinking about using DIM powder once in a while. Arimadex and other AI's cause me severe joint pain and weakness, so I need something not so strong.

**sammpedd88** · 05-07-2017, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by LMuscle

Does DIM only lower estrogen, or does it lower other hormones as well? Will it lower estradiol so much as to cause joint pain? I was thinking about using DIM powder once in a while. Arimadex and other AI's cause me severe joint pain and weakness, so I need something not so strong.

DIM didn't work for me so I had to start taking Arimidex. I know a few people that DIM works for. How much Arimidex were you taking?

**Jcc7220** · 05-07-2017, 04:42 PM

When do you find the need to take dim or arimidex are you on a cycle?

**sammpedd88** · 05-07-2017, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Jcc7220

When do you find the need to take dim or arimidex are you on a cycle?

Don't know if you were asking me or OP but I'm on TRT and have to take an AI.

**Jcc7220** · 05-07-2017, 05:23 PM

And dim is considered an AI?

**mike33511** · 05-07-2017, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Jcc7220

And dim is considered an AI?

From Examine:

"It has potent effects on estrogen metabolism and is able to keep the body relatively balanced (by preventing either drastic increases or decreases in estrogen). In small amounts, it can both inhibit the aromatase enzyme (and prevent conversion of testosterone into estrogen) and it can act on more potent forms of estrogen and convert them into less potent forms; this conversion reduces the overall effects of estrogen in the body. However, taking too much DIM at once can actually induce the aromatase enzyme and act in the opposite manner and increase estrogen synthesis."

**Ricky10** · 05-07-2017, 07:01 PM

There is conflicting data on this one; as is true with many supplements in this category. Many sources classify if as an anti-androgen. So yes...in this case you would be correct in saying that it could possibly lower other hormones.

Given this, I think it is best to stay away from this one..

**sammpedd88** · 05-07-2017, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Ricky10

There is conflicting data on this one; as is true with many supplements in this category. Many sources classify if as an anti-androgen. So yes...in this case you would be correct in saying that it could possibly lower other hormones.

Given this, I think it is best to stay away from this one..

Why would you say stay away from it? Most integrative medicine dr's that prescribe TRT recommending starting with DIM and zinc to help control high E2. It does work for some people, for me it did not.

**justhere4comm** · 05-07-2017, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by sammpedd88

Why would you say stay away from it? Most integrative medicine dr's that prescribe TRT recommending starting with DIM and zinc to help control high E2. It does work for some people, for me it did not.

On TRT now and using a Sub Q protocol every 3.5 days, with DIM; Pregnenolone, and DHEA which is working out well so far. All numbers were normal but my test was 400 only and I didn't quite feel well enough at that number so I have upped my dose to 75mg every 3.5 days. I'll be getting bloods in another 4 weeks and go from there. Feeling better after 2 weeks, and I think this might be the right dose for me.

Edit: I'm a bit on my own here as my doctor trusts I'm in good hands with my wife who runs the lab at the hospital. He's right, but I'm pretty much doing everything. I communicate with my doc through the office's secure web portal. It's pretty tight. I like to give him updates as I'm the only one of his patients on this protocol.

**The Matrix** · 05-08-2017, 12:36 AM

DIM does not lower estrogen it just shifts the metabolism of 16 to 2 OHE.
The same thing can be achieved with iodine as it will shift the 16 OHE to e3. This is why iodine is highly protective in breast tissue in females
I often suggest DIM in mold cases ad it has a huge impact on immune system modulation as well as it alters gene expression as noted in clinically studies as it turn on Nrf2.
I also fine it helpful with viral loads as well

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24466240

**kisaj** · 05-08-2017, 08:58 AM

I wish we could sticky some facts on DIM because way too many guys are getting the impression that it lowers estrogen or acts like an AI. It metabolizes the bad to good- so it is good to take, but not to actually lower e2.

**Jcc7220** · 05-08-2017, 09:00 AM

Would it be better to take on cycle or pct

**kisaj** · 05-08-2017, 09:06 AM

It doesn't matter, it can be taken daily as a staple. It is good for you.

**Jcc7220** · 05-08-2017, 09:07 AM

What kind of dosage would you recommend

**kisaj** · 05-08-2017, 09:09 AM

No recommendations, but I take 100mg daily. My wife does as well.

**The Matrix** · 05-08-2017, 09:23 PM

I have shifted to focusing on researching botanicals for lower estrogen as there are many out there that have anti aromatase properties that look promising to replacing AI's in the near future.

**kisaj** · 05-08-2017, 09:40 PM

Keep us in the loop if anything can be disclosed

**Ninjo** · 05-09-2017, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by The Matrix

I have shifted to focusing on researching botanicals for lower estrogen as there are many out there that have anti aromatase properties that look promising to replacing AI's in the near future.

Why are you looking to replace the AI with botanicals? I've been on TRT for almost 5 years and take 2mg Arimidex/wk with no issues. Please enlighten me if you are aware of any negatives. Thank you.

**mike33511** · 05-09-2017, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Ninjo

Why are you looking to replace the AI with botanicals? I've been on TRT for almost 5 years and take 2mg Arimidex/wk with no issues. Please enlighten me if you are aware of any negatives. Thank you.

That's a lot of Arimidex! I assume you've had bloods to confirm that you E2 isn't too low? What's your test dose?

**Ninjo** · 05-09-2017, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by mike33511

That's a lot of Arimidex! I assume you've had bloods to confirm that you E2 isn't too low? What's your test dose?

Yup, i do bloodwork every 12 weeks...trt dose is 200mg test cyp/wk split into two doses

**The Matrix** · 05-09-2017, 03:51 PM

If you are in opiates or pain killers it can impact cyp3d4 which will inhibit antii aromatases. I have cases due to being on Percocet and other meds need up to 1
Mgs a day

**The Matrix** · 05-09-2017, 03:59 PM

Long term AI I have experience increase memory issues and alters my moods. Being aspergers, any impact of neurological inflammtion or hormone shifts can significantly alter my chemistry. It has nothing to do with e2 levels because they had been stable and still AI causing cognitive issues. Since I stopped them memory has been sharp. I can not afford to slip up at any level. This is my own experience as many very well known HRT share same view. This is my own experiences, but has been supported by others

**UCSMiami** · 05-10-2017, 09:49 AM

Side effects to DIM?

Can I get enough from diet? I have cruciferous veggies every weekday.

**The Matrix** · 05-10-2017, 09:56 AM

With out proper Stomach HCL you will not get the benefits from cruciferous veggies to cover to DIM. This is why IC3 is a waste on many level with people with chronic illness
Majority of population have low stomach acid from chronic stress. This is one of the factors to how stress promotes certain forms of cancer due to low HCL increasing intestinal dysbiosis altering the metabolism of proteins, carbs and fats to proinflammatory response.

Dim can increase e2 in presence of a viral load as I see this a lot clinically

**UCSMiami** · 05-10-2017, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by The Matrix

With out proper Stomach HCL you will not get the benefits from cruciferous veggies to cover to DIM. This is why IC3 is a waste on many level with people with chronic illness
Majority of population have low stomach acid from chronic stress. This is one of the factors to how stress promotes certain forms of cancer due to low HCL increasing intestinal dysbiosis altering the metabolism of proteins, carbs and fats to proinflammatory response.

Dim can increase e2 in presence of a viral load as I see this a lot clinically

plain english for the bold sections ? what is IC3? Is increased E2 good or bad?