TEST CYP and BLOAT

[hugh jass]

Hello, just started test cyp with a script from my doc. 200 mg a week. I do 100mg wed and 100 mg Friday though. Been on it a month, picking up my second month today. Im pretty fat. 5'7 and 240. My T was 200 on a range from 400-1100. I feel like I got even fatter since starting. Really bloated. What can I do to combat this? Hes starting me on anastrozle this month. .5 every other day. From what Ive read, that seems like a lot. Ant suggestions?

 

[kisaj]

That is really high to start on and is most likely aromatizing, causing more bloat and water gain. Lower your dose and wait to start the AI until you get your protocol dialed in.

 

[VWMeatHead]

Hello, just started test cyp with a script from my doc. 200 mg a week. I do 100mg wed and 100 mg Friday though. Been on it a month, picking up my second month today. Im pretty fat. 5'7 and 240. My T was 200 on a range from 400-1100. I feel like I got even fatter since starting. Really bloated. What can I do to combat this? Hes starting me on anastrozle this month. .5 every other day. From what Ive read, that seems like a lot. Ant suggestions?

Anti-estrogen is definitely the place to start.

How are you eating? Are you exercising?

 

[hugh jass]

Thanks for the replies. Eating is could use improvement. I don't eat junk but I'm not eating clean. No soda or anything like that. I used to work out. Mostly cardio and body weight exercises. Last weekend i started up again but with weights. I don't have a program so just did Bi's, Tri, and Lats. It felt great. Never had a "pump" like that at the gym before so I know the T is working but man, I feel and look so bloated and puffy. Last night I took 100mg of Test Cyp and .5 of Anastrozle. Will do the same on Wednesday. Should I go higher with the Anastrozle to see if it does anything for the bloat or would that be dangerous?

 

[B5150]

Thanks for the replies. Eating is could use improvement. I don't eat junk but I'm not eating clean. No soda or anything like that. I used to work out. Mostly cardio and body weight exercises. Last weekend i started up again but with weights. I don't have a program so just did Bi's, Tri, and Lats. It felt great. Never had a "pump" like that at the gym before so I know the T is working but man, I feel and look so bloated and puffy. Last night I took 100mg of Test Cyp and .5 of Anastrozle. Will do the same on Wednesday. Should I go higher with the Anastrozle to see if it does anything for the bloat or would that be dangerous?

No. You should listen to the advice in this post:

That is really high to start on and is most likely aromatizing, causing more bloat and water gain. Lower your dose and wait to start the AI until you get your protocol dialed in.

200mg/w is not a TRT dose. Drop down to 125mg/w and you won't bloat and may not need an AI.

Trust me. After many years of experience all that 200mg/w over 125mg/w is doing is causing you unwanted and undesirable sides that force you to use unnecessary ancillaries that will cause you unwanted and unnecessary side.

Additionally, 200mg/w over 125mg/w isn't that significant enough androgen to produce aesthetic results that make it worth while. More is not more. If you are fat it is even less beneficial.

 

[kenpoengineer]

Listen to this guy! Great advice and right on point!

 

[hugh jass]

Thanks again for the replies. So at 125mg/w I shouldn't need an IA? That's good to know. So at that dose, will I still measure close to the higher end of the blood work range of 400-1100? I've read in other threads that you should shoot for between 800-1100. It would be great to feel 18 again and have this brain fog go away.

 

[kisaj]

Don't chase the number. Correct the problem and the see where the number lies so you can be aware.

 

[sammpedd88]

As Kisaj just said don't chase numbers. Find a level within range that works for you. For some that may be near the top of the range. For others it may be mid range or less.

As far as an AI, usually at a true TRT dose you won't need an AI but me personally I have to have one. I inject about 110 mgs a week split in 2 doses. I take .25 mgs on injection days of arimidex.

 

[hugh jass]

Thanks. The pre-TRT blood work showed my estradiol actually was low, a 14 or something. But my total estrogens were high, over 100.

 

[hugh jass]

I appreciate all the replies here. After reading through the thread again it prompted me to do some more reading about all of this. Now I think I may very well may have secondary hypogonadism. Mainly due to severe obstructive sleep apnea I've had all my life and still have problems treating. Can't sleep with that mask on to save my life. I'm thinking because my mind is exhausted all the time from sleep deprivation, so is my pituitary. Also, it seems as if I have most of the issues people have with secondary when they take injections. What is the best way to test for this? Should I discontinue the shots until I figure it out?

 

[B5150]

I appreciate all the replies here. After reading through the thread again it prompted me to do some more reading about all of this. Now I think I may very well may have secondary hypogonadism. Mainly due to severe obstructive sleep apnea I've had all my life and still have problems treating. Can't sleep with that mask on to save my life. I'm thinking because my mind is exhausted all the time from sleep deprivation, so is my pituitary. Also, it seems as if I have most of the issues people have with secondary when they take injections. What is the best way to test for this? Should I discontinue the shots until I figure it out?

Why not talk to your doctor about all of this so he can treat you rather than simply medicate you?

 

[v4lu3s]

my doctor made me do a sleep study BEFORE just slapping me on test. Sleep apnea ill definitely lower test levels. I turned out to be borderline as far as needing a CPAP, went on it anyway for a year but saw no improvement, but I still snore some, however losing more body fat has helped as well as tackling ongoing chronic allergic rhinitis.

 

[B5150]

I turned out to be borderline as far as needing a CPAP, went on it anyway for a year but saw no improvement, but I still snore some, however losing more body fat has helped as well as tackling ongoing chronic allergic rhinitis.

Mainly due to severe obstructive sleep apnea I've had all my life and still have problems treating. Can't sleep with that mask on to save my life.

Not to be a dick but, it's either or - mild or severe. I have mild sleep apnea as well as chronic allergic rhinitis.

Allergy test determined I have no known allergies. CT scan shows I have no sinus disease and only a very slightly deviated septum. Antihistamines and corticosteroid in hailers do nothing. I got an allergy shot two weeks ago and it made no difference.

I am not overweight so weight loss is not the remedy although if I wanted I could maybe drop 10lbs of body fat but that would put me below my natural set point and be tough to maintain.

I have s long uvula and a thickened tongue. I looked into surgery but it is extremely painful with a very low efficacy rate.

Regardless of your testosterone level (meaning if it were normal or not) OSA can be debilitating and cause a host of other health risks, mostly cardio vascular - hypertension, arrhythmia, etc.

Loose weight and look into either of these in the meantime:
https://www.snorerx.com/
http://www.apnearx.com/
There's a host of other technology:
http://www.sleepreviewmag.com/2014/01/oral-appliances-side-by-side-comparison-guide-december-2013/

I find it to be fairly effective and as a result am considering getting a more expensive custom one from an orthodontist.

 

[hugh jass]

You quoted 2 different people. V4Lu3s has mild, I have severe. Even when I was thin I even had it. I have a short narrow throat so it always collapses when I lay down. I've tried it all. Oral devices don't pull my jaw forward enough. The problem with my mask is my mind doesn't shut off. I go to sleep but my brain stays in "aware" mode that something is on my face so I still never go into REM. Docs want to give me sleep meds but they are awful. Nasty dreams, still wake up tired, etc. A little Xanax would probably do the trick but they are all scared to prescribe it now.

 

[B5150]

You quoted 2 different people. V4Lu3s has mild, I have severe. Even when I was thin I even had it. I have a short narrow throat so it always collapses when I lay down. I've tried it all. Oral devices don't pull my jaw forward enough. The problem with my mask is my mind doesn't shut off. I go to sleep but my brain stays in "aware" mode that something is on my face so I still never go into REM. Docs want to give me sleep meds but they are awful. Nasty dreams, still wake up tired, etc. A little Xanax would probably do the trick but they are all scared to prescribe it now.

Oops. It was too early too post. Sorry! v4lu3s please disregard.

I have use many sleep medication as well as alcohol and recreational substances. Xanax is great to knock me out. Problem with all of them is that although I "pass out" and get a good 2-3 he clip of sleep I wake from a more severe OSA episode - heart racing and pounding. They all sedate you and this further relaxes the throat and collapses it even further.

Like you I could never get over the awareness of the mask and would get anxiety attacks trying to breath (exhale).

I do get relief from the oral device. I'm sorry about your struggle and I can sincerely empathize with you.

 

[hugh jass]

Thanks man. I'm seeing my Pulmonologist again next week. Have to figure something out.

 

[B5150]

Red Sox Mike Napoli had mandible surgery:

http://nesn.com/2015/01/mike-napoli-nearly-forced-to-retire-before-brutal-sleep-apnea-surgery/

http://www.si.com/edge/2015/04/13/red-sox-mike-napoli-sleep-apnea-mlb-sleep-studies

 

[hugh jass]

Damn, they broke both upper and lower jaws? That's crazy. He must have been desperate. I'm not there ~yet~ but something has to be done for sure.

 

[RipdnTxs]

Im sure someone has already suggested this, I put the mask on and watch tv for a while and get used to having it on my face before trying to fall asleep. This has worked really well the last month, I used to put it on right before trying to fall asleep and had the same problems all of u have stated, I used to wake up every morning with it off and not even remember taking it off, now I have been sleeping till my alarm goes off or waking just before and Im feeling more rested. Wish U the best of luck.....

 

[hugh jass]

Thats a pretty good tip man. Thanks. I will try it.

 

[Mr.TT]

OP have you tested your vitamin D3 levels(storage and active).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7cbBB1c0IM

This worked for me.

 

[hugh jass]

My Vitamin D is chronically low despite supplementation. If I take more than 400iu a day it gives me insomnia.

 

[kisaj]

Do you supplement vit K?

 

[hugh jass]

I've read about K but never supplemented with it. For about 10 years I did landscaping here in South Florida. I figured if I was low on Vit D after that much daily sun exposure there must be something fundamentally wrong with my system.