Androgel 1.62% Review/Feedback

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    Quote Originally Posted by jflo DE View Post
    Did you order from the JAR website or from the US distributor? I still have not received anything from my order on August 12th.
    I ordered from the US distributor last Thursday (or possibly Friday). I received an order confirmation the same day, and a shipping confirmation (w/ tracking number) email last night at approx. 8:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    FWIW - I ordered Phlojel last week and just received my shipping confirmation and tracking number.

    YMMV
    Do you need any of the other previous emails? If so let me know, I see you got the most recent one that I forwarded to you. These other guys are waiting for orders from almost 2 months ago....so they may have fell through the cracks? not sure, but it is hard to communicate with the US distributor....the guys in Canada are usually responsive (to other people, I've never contacted them).
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I'm not saying it doesn't work but I'm looking at something like eight pumps for a respectable number. That makes Androgel very expensive especially if you don't have perscription inusurance. Although I hate the thought of shots, it may be cheaper.
    actually...using your #'s as a basis (which is not scientifically sound or proven lol...its ball park)....183 from one pump = 945 levels from 5 pumps and 732 from 4 pumps (of the stuff you are using, you'd need 7-8 of the 1% or 1.62% probably). So not that bad at all actually, you have to expect to use more than 1-2 pumps with this stuff, its just how it works transdermally. But yes, my insurance covers me for whatever dosage I use....so I am lucky in that regard. I didn't factor that part in since you were using generic stuff, which I assume is ten times cheaper than abbott rx products.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicHolic View Post
    Do you need any of the other previous emails? If so let me know, I see you got the most recent one that I forwarded to you. These other guys are waiting for orders from almost 2 months ago....so they may have fell through the cracks? not sure, but it is hard to communicate with the US distributor....the guys in Canada are usually responsive (to other people, I've never contacted them).
    AH,

    Thanks very much. For whatever reason, I just may have been lucky - or the U.S. Distributor may be catching up after the FDA-related delay. In any case, I will update this thread fater I receive the product, which s/b either Friday or Saturday.

    And, thank you again for your help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    AH,

    Thanks very much. For whatever reason, I just may have been lucky - or the U.S. Distributor may be catching up after the FDA-related delay. In any case, I will update this thread fater I receive the product, which s/b either Friday or Saturday.

    And, thank you again for your help.
    Yeah I think you popped in at the right time immediately after they straightened it all out....the Canadian guys took up the slack for the short term, and the FDA seems to be letting the US distributors shipment loose. You lucky SOB lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicHolic View Post
    actually...using your #'s as a basis (which is not scientifically sound or proven lol...its ball park)....183 from one pump = 945 levels from 5 pumps and 732 from 4 pumps (of the stuff you are using, you'd need 7-8 of the 1% or 1.62% probably). So not that bad at all actually, you have to expect to use more than 1-2 pumps with this stuff, its just how it works transdermally. But yes, my insurance covers me for whatever dosage I use....so I am lucky in that regard. I didn't factor that part in since you were using generic stuff, which I assume is ten times cheaper than abbott rx products.
    183 is from two pumps of 1.62 or 1 pump of 3.24 in my particular instance. I've done some research and shots would be considerably cheaper. There are advantages both ways. I may be forced to go the shot route from a cost perspective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    183 is from two pumps of 1.62 or 1 pump of 3.24 in my particular instance. I've done some research and shots would be considerably cheaper. There are advantages both ways. I may be forced to go the shot route from a cost perspective.
    shots are always cheaper even at a 1/4 pump of androgel.....the key is getting it covered by your insurance, if not? then you have to use the generic, but even then there is probably no price comparison to the shots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    I ordered from the US distributor last Thursday (or possibly Friday). I received an order confirmation the same day, and a shipping confirmation (w/ tracking number) email last night at approx. 8:30.
    I just received my Phlojel delivery.
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    I ordered Phlogel from a US distributor. The bill on my credit card says "Recapture Life". I haven't received my order yet, but it's only been a few days.

    I had a doctors appt today. He gave me the green light to play with Androgel dosages until I get my testosterone to a respectable level. He would like to see me at 500 but I would like to go higher of course. I think I will start with four pumps along with Phlogel and see what happens. I will increase the dosages of both as necessary. I think 700-800 would be a respectable number IMO.

    P.S. my estrodial was 6.9. Way to low. I will back off of the formestane. This stuff works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I ordered Phlogel from a US distributor. The bill on my credit card says "Recapture Life". I haven't received my order yet, but it's only been a few days.
    FWIW - that is the same company I ordered from, and I believe I received the product 7 or 8 days after I ordered it.

    I have been using it a few days now, and I have not noticed a difference - but I did not expect to given the short of amount of time I have been using Phlojel and the short amount of time I have been using Androgel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    FWIW - that is the same company I ordered from, and I believe I received the product 7 or 8 days after I ordered it.

    I have been using it a few days now, and I have not noticed a difference - but I did not expect to given the short of amount of time I have been using Phlojel and the short amount of time I have been using Androgel.
    Keep us posted. I will be doing blood tests so I will definately know if it is working or not. I have read that just applying a good hand lotion will improve absorption by hydrating the skin. I found this information on PubMed a while back. If Phlogel doesn't work I will go with DSMO, I know it works I just don't like the smell. I hear that they now have orderless DSMO. I probably should have just gone with DSMO in the first place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    Keep us posted. I will be doing blood tests so I will definately know if it is working or not. I have read that just applying a good hand lotion will improve absorption by hydrating the skin. I found this information on PubMed a while back. If Phlogel doesn't work I will go with DSMO, I know it works I just don't like the smell. I hear that they now have orderless DSMO.
    I found similar studies; one of them may have been listed in the paperwork accompanying the Androjel.

    I will update; please do the same.
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    What forma were you using that crushed your estrogen??(BBB)
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    I'm currently using FormaSurge but I also have Formeron. FormaSurge is kind of runny but seems to be working well. I love formestane and keep a pretty good supply on hand at all times. I look for specials and buy as much as I can afford.

    I'm a bit dissapointed in generic androgel. T levels at 183 on two pumps seems really low. My doc says he has seen T levels in the 700's on two pumps of regular androgel.
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    I similarly was around a total t-level of 250 with 2 pumps of Androgel, then 4 pumps brought me up to around 590. Now combining that with phlogel ultra I'm around 1200. I'm not a big fan of applying DMSO to my skin regularly and phlogel seems to be very effective.
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    I don't know if this will help, but I use a body scrubber (looks like a milder version of a kitchen green scrubbing sponge) to lightly abrade the area on which I will be applying the Androgel, thinking this will better prep the area for absorption. I don't rub the area hard enough to make it red, just enough to feel that I have thoroughly cleaned the area. After drying the area, I apply the Androgel, rubbing it in fairly hard until it dries. Then I wait about 3 or 4 minutes, then come back and apply the Phlojel.

    Any thoughts?
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    I talked to a lady on the Androgel website. She told me the primary reason DSMO works so well is that it desolves the oils on the skin allowing for better penetration. She also said that applying after a shower will do the same thing. I think there is more to DSMO and Phlogel absorbtion than this but I'm sure that it is a factor. I shower at night but apply Androgel in the morning, so I don't expose my wife. I hope Phlogel will work as well for me as it has for others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I hope Phlogel will work as well for me as it has for others.
    You and me both, brother.

    Good luck.
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    Just a quick update - and I believe this is attributable to the Phojel (because it didn't happen before I started using Phlojel) -- I understand it is customary for users to get a rush after taking Androgel -- well I may have noticed a little something before -- but now (for the last several days) I get a massive rush and break out is a sweat.

    I have to assume this is increased efficacy caused by the Phlojel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Just a quick update - and I believe this is attributable to the Phojel (because it didn't happen before I started using Phlojel) -- I understand it is customary for users to get a rush after taking Androgel -- well I may have noticed a little something before -- but now (for the last several days) I get a massive rush and break out is a sweat.

    I have to assume this is increased efficacy caused by the Phlojel.
    How long after you apply Androgel+Phlogel do you notice this rush? Today I applied about 12 pumps of Androgel+Phlogel just to see how I felt. About two hours later I started to feel like Superman. Unfortunately, I can't afford 12 pumps/day.
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    I would say the rush occurs apprx 10 to 15 minutes after application. I'm only on 2 pumps (to start).

    I wonder is taking Niacin a few minutes before applying the Androgel might further increase assimilation??? I have not researched this.
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    Quick question about you all are using Phlojel. I've been using the generic Androgel 1.62% at 3 pumps a day for about a week. It's been OK, but not spectacular. I just got some Phlojel and want try that to see if it increases absorption. Do you recommend that I apply the Androgel like I normally would and then apply the Phlojel? If so, how long do I wait before adding the Phlojel and how much of it do I apply after the Androgel? Also, does the Phlojel dry fairly quickly or do I have to wait a while before I can get dressed?

    Any thoughts on the generic Androgel? Seems good, but I don't have anything to compare it to (I have a script, but the generic is A LOT cheaper).

    Thanks for help, guys!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    I would say the rush occurs apprx 10 to 15 minutes after application. I'm only on 2 pumps (to start).

    I wonder is taking Niacin a few minutes before applying the Androgel might further increase assimilation??? I have not researched this.
    Quite possible. Niacin dilates blood vessels about 10 -15 minutes after ingestion and creates a sensation of warmth, called a "niacin flush." This increases blood flow throughout the body. It is also hard on the liver.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesbgck View Post
    Quick question about you all are using Phlojel. I've been using the generic Androgel 1.62% at 3 pumps a day for about a week. It's been OK, but not spectacular. I just got some Phlojel and want try that to see if it increases absorption. Do you recommend that I apply the Androgel like I normally would and then apply the Phlojel? If so, how long do I wait before adding the Phlojel and how much of it do I apply after the Androgel? Also, does the Phlojel dry fairly quickly or do I have to wait a while before I can get dressed?

    Any thoughts on the generic Androgel? Seems good, but I don't have anything to compare it to (I have a script, but the generic is A LOT cheaper).

    Thanks for help, guys!
    I don't have script insurance so generic is the only thing I can afford. I apply Phlogel after applying the Androgel. I'm also on three pumps/day but I think I'll increase to four.
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    OK folks, I have some updates since I originally posted this thread and would appreciate some feedback. When I first started using Androgel 1.62%, I would take a hot shower and immediately after drying off I would apply 4 pumps, which were one pump on each pectoral, and one on each shoulder. After a few minutes when it would dry, I would apply a thin layer of Pholgel Ultra which would dry rather quickly on top of the Androgel. In about an hour or two I pretty much always have felt a pump in my arms which is how I definitely knew it was kicking in. I took a blood test after hour 3 or 4 and my total T was around 1200ng/dl (scale of 241-827), Free T was 294 PG/ML (scale of 35-180), and T Free % was 2.5 (scale of 1.0-2.7).

    I then started to experiment and apply the 4 morning pumps without a shower, and still apply the Phlogel Ultra. I would apply one pump to each pectoral, wait a few minutes, apply another pump to each pectoral on top of the first layer, and then apply the Phlogel Ultra on top after drying. I also added another 2 pumps in the late afternoon, with one pump to each pectoral along with Phlogel Ultra on top after drying. This was a total of 6 pumps per day and when I had my Total-T tested in the morning, it dropped to about 800ng/dl!

    My next experiment was to apply the total 6 morning pumps without a shower, and still apply the Phlogel Ultra. I would apply one pump to each pectoral, wait a few minutes, apply another pump to each pectoral on top of the first layer, wait a few minutes, apply another pump to each pectoral on top of the first layer, and then apply the Phlogel Ultra on top after drying. This was still a total of 6 pumps per day and when I had my Total-T tested last week again at the exact same time of day in the morning, my total T was now down to 620ng/dl (scale of 241-827), Free T was 139 PG/ML (scale of 35-180), and T Free % was 2.3 (scale of 1.0-2.7).

    So my theory is either the hot shower was definitely helping the Androgel+Phlogel penetrate the skin, and it is ESSENTIAL to apply each pump to unique areas of the upper body each day, and do not overlay a pump over a previous application area in the same day. Something is definitely not working as it was originally and this is my best guess! I've also read that as you increase more pumps of Androgel and DHT rises, it can actually lower your total T.

    In addition, this last blood test I had my Estradiol measured and it is at 88.3 PG/ML, which I believe is very high. My PSA is extremely low and all other bloodwork is within range for my lipid profile. I am switching back to my original method of using applying the original 4 pumps to unique areas with the Androgel, and getting re-tested again in a few weeks. BTW, I have read in many sources that apply moisturizing lotion on top of Androgel increases absorption up to 13%, and I believe pre-treating the application area with an light exfoliation brush in the shower may also improve results.

    Any feedback?
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    Thanks for the info & your experience man. Yes, applying post hot shower is a must. Try rotating your application sites up. Try areas where you have thinner skin eg. Inner thighs, inner arms, on top of feet, behind the knees, etc.
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    daaaammnnn.........I was wondering if my twice per day application on the traps/delts/upper arms was hindering absorption....I guess rotate the sites to 100% different areas morning and night. Only bad part is that sometimes I apply the next morning and don't shower until later afternoon, so that is oftentimes 3 applications before showering again....I guess rotate a third time lol. But shoulders are such a great area to apply on.....

    I guess this is why my estradiol is always so high....twice daily applications of androgel must be causing it. That sucks if its true. I also notice a lot of fluctuation in test #'s despite taking my labs at the same time and applying the same amounts the same time the previous night. I think its just hit or miss with the application, but yeah after a shower is best...I do believe that depending on how sweaty you get etc. has a bearing on the permeability of your skin as well and affects how much androgel gets absorbed...in other words there are more factors than just clean skin. But clean skin is ideal of course. Lot to think about here
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    Sites I rotate between are: shoulders, traps, inner thighs, inner arms, on top of feet and behind the knees.
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    Just a thought - even though some are using Androgel w/o a prior shower, it would still be possible to prep the area by washing it vigorously with a "wow, is that hot" washcloth, no?
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    ^^^If I couldn't get a shower in I would definitely go that route.
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    Quote Originally Posted by svida View Post
    OK folks, I have some updates since I originally posted this thread and would appreciate some feedback. When I first started using Androgel 1.62%, I would take a hot shower and immediately after drying off I would apply 4 pumps, which were one pump on each pectoral, and one on each shoulder. After a few minutes when it would dry, I would apply a thin layer of Pholgel Ultra which would dry rather quickly on top of the Androgel. In about an hour or two I pretty much always have felt a pump in my arms which is how I definitely knew it was kicking in. I took a blood test after hour 3 or 4 and my total T was around 1200ng/dl (scale of 241-827), Free T was 294 PG/ML (scale of 35-180), and T Free % was 2.5 (scale of 1.0-2.7).

    I then started to experiment and apply the 4 morning pumps without a shower, and still apply the Phlogel Ultra. I would apply one pump to each pectoral, wait a few minutes, apply another pump to each pectoral on top of the first layer, and then apply the Phlogel Ultra on top after drying. I also added another 2 pumps in the late afternoon, with one pump to each pectoral along with Phlogel Ultra on top after drying. This was a total of 6 pumps per day and when I had my Total-T tested in the morning, it dropped to about 800ng/dl!

    My next experiment was to apply the total 6 morning pumps without a shower, and still apply the Phlogel Ultra. I would apply one pump to each pectoral, wait a few minutes, apply another pump to each pectoral on top of the first layer, wait a few minutes, apply another pump to each pectoral on top of the first layer, and then apply the Phlogel Ultra on top after drying. This was still a total of 6 pumps per day and when I had my Total-T tested last week again at the exact same time of day in the morning, my total T was now down to 620ng/dl (scale of 241-827), Free T was 139 PG/ML (scale of 35-180), and T Free % was 2.3 (scale of 1.0-2.7).

    So my theory is either the hot shower was definitely helping the Androgel+Phlogel penetrate the skin, and it is ESSENTIAL to apply each pump to unique areas of the upper body each day, and do not overlay a pump over a previous application area in the same day. Something is definitely not working as it was originally and this is my best guess! I've also read that as you increase more pumps of Androgel and DHT rises, it can actually lower your total T.

    In addition, this last blood test I had my Estradiol measured and it is at 88.3 PG/ML, which I believe is very high. My PSA is extremely low and all other bloodwork is within range for my lipid profile. I am switching back to my original method of using applying the original 4 pumps to unique areas with the Androgel, and getting re-tested again in a few weeks. BTW, I have read in many sources that apply moisturizing lotion on top of Androgel increases absorption up to 13%, and I believe pre-treating the application area with an light exfoliation brush in the shower may also improve results.

    Any feedback?
    Great feedback. I shower at night but apply Androgel+Phlogel in the morning. This reduces the possibility of transference. I usually exercise in the evening and need a shower before bed. I know you have to rotate application sites as the skin becomes saturated. Think if it like a sponge, it can only hold so much. It usually takes about 24 hours to clear from what I've read. So theoretically, you could apply it to the same area on a daily basis. But I'm sure that rotating sites EOD is better.
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    I think your hot shower is temporarily expanding the pores on the skin to further increase absorption, so you'd want to take advantage of this timing window immediately after drying off. Another good option is immediately after leaving a steam room. I'm very convinced that you will hinder absorption if you re-apply on the same exact site without waiting at least a day. I'll let you know the results of my next test later this month.
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    The underarm is a great application site. It is also a very sensitive area. Has anyone tried mixing Androgel with Phlogel and applying to the underarm area?
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    I don't know that it would work, but - possibly- microwaving the Phlojel might increase its absorption. Its just a guess.
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    I've discussed my situation with my doc and we are going to 4 pumps of 1.62 daily + Phlogel and see what happens. If this doesn't get my T levels into the 600 - 700 range we will opt for shots. I can tell that I already feel more energetic with this new protocol. Let's hope. I would go to 6 pumps if necessary but that makes Androgel a pretty expensive option. In order to avoid the possibility of transference everything must be applied in the morning. Splitting doses may have benefits, I'm not sure.
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    I had my follow-up meeting with my doctor today and we're trying to tackle my high Estradiol that was last recorded at 88.3 PG/ML, which was when I was using 6 pumps/day in the morning + Phlogel Ultra. The upper boundary for my test was 40PG/ML so my E2 is over double the limit. I haven't had any high estrogen symptoms such as bloating, sore nips, etc. I may have been spiking my T too high which has increased the E2.

    I've gone back to my original successful method of applying 4 pumps in the morning immediately after a hot shower, evenly distributed over my upper back, shoulders, and chest, followed by a thin layer of Phlogel Ultra. In just the past few days, I've already noticed a significant change in how much better I feel and an even stronger pump all day long. I'm going in for a follow-up estradiol and total T blood test in a few weeks. If my estradiol is not back within range, I'm going to spread out the 4 pumps and apply 2 pumps to the back & shoulders in the AM, and then 2 pumps to the upper arms & pecs in the afternoon. Does anyone have any other recommendations on how to reduce estradiol? Besides elevated E2, everything else is awesome with my bloodwork and my PSA is unchanged. My strength and endurance is amazing in the gym, Alpha male and libido are well above normal, I've dropped about 12lbs of fat in 5 months, reduced BF% at least a few percentages to 12%, and am getting pretty damn cut! It really surprises me how much better I can look at 198lbs with lower body fat compared to about 225lbs a year ago.
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    Yeah I fear our beloved androgel is responsible for our elevated estradiol....esp the twice a day protocol I suppose. Too much of a coincidence that so many androgel people get retarded high estradiol results. Not sure what to do about it, I've been running two pumps of formeron per day (split dosage 1 pump morning and 1 pump night) with phlojel....maybe this will be enough to combat it? might need an industrial strength AI like letro at low doses daily...ugh...
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I've discussed my situation with my doc and we are going to 4 pumps of 1.62 daily + Phlogel and see what happens. If this doesn't get my T levels into the 600 - 700 range we will opt for shots. I can tell that I already feel more energetic with this new protocol. Let's hope. I would go to 6 pumps if necessary but that makes Androgel a pretty expensive option. In order to avoid the possibility of transference everything must be applied in the morning. Splitting doses may have benefits, I'm not sure.
    You will be 6-700's no doubt, esp with the addition of phlojel...probably could have gotten there w/o the jel....I know I got to 687 with no phlojel on 8 pumps of 1% androgel (equivalent to about 5 or so pumps of 1.62%). But I was a slow responder at first....now I usually get high results as opposed to lower like in my first 6 months or so of TRT.
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    I also reached between 500-600 total T with 4 pumps of Androgel daily alone, with no DMSO nor Phlogel Ultra. I was reading through the full Prescribing Information guide on Androgel's website (http://www.rxabbvie.com/pdf/androgel1_62_PI.pdf) and if you search on Estradiol, you'll only read a statement "The mean estradiol and DHT concentration profiles paralleled the changes observed in testosterone." They graph the short-term and long-term ranges of testosterone levels using Androgel vs. Placebo, though they don't disclose any fluctuations in estrogen. I've also seen quite a trend of Androgel reviews of elevated E2, which are a heck of alot higher than my 88.3 PG/ML using 6 pumps/daily. Perhaps as I reduce back to 4 pumps it will be reduced. I've also read about Diindolylmethane, or DIM which will reduce E2. Has anyone tried this? Any side effects?
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    FWIW – and I DO NOT know if this will help me (or you), but I am following this self-prescribed supplement plan intended to reduce estrogen dominance:

    Zinc
    DIM
    I3C
    Quercetin
    Stinging Nettle Extract
    Vitamin A
    Vitamin C
    Vitamin D
    Selenium
    Muira Puama
  

  
 

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