Creatine affecting TRT?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza

    I'm on androderm patch not gel. N he said it was to see how I'd respond before moving forward w more aggressive treatmeant
    Got ya...

    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza

    Ok. I will try to find places or talk to him n work with him to change things up. I dont care what my sack looks like, I just want to be making sperm lol.

    Do these clinics not take insurance?

    What am I facing if I come off after being on 2-3 weeks? It's Low dose patch.. Would I need something then to jump start me back im assuming.. Would OTCs be enough, wtf
    You are going to make significantly less sperm being on TRT. That is one of the things that deters people from being on especially at our age. You aren't going to have just testicular atrophy but also decreased sperm.

    Just have to call around on insurance bud there are definitely clinics that take insurance. I know the one all the firefighters and police go to out here is $10 per injection and HCG is covered. However, a lot of them are really just looking for profits so you may not be receiving a protocol to specifically suit your needs. Keep that in mind when looking around bud.

    - Valdez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez
    Got ya...

    You are going to make significantly less sperm being on TRT. That is one of the things that deters people from being on especially at our age. You aren't going to have just testicular atrophy but also decreased sperm.

    Just have to call around on insurance bud there are definitely clinics that take insurance. I know the one all the firefighters and police go to out here is $10 per injection and HCG is covered. However, a lot of them are really just looking for profits so you may not be receiving a protocol to specifically suit your needs. Keep that in mind when looking around bud.

    - Valdez
    Thanks v. I'm actually trying to become a cop
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza

    Thanks v. I'm actually trying to become a cop
    No prob bro... I remember you saying something about that. What city are you trying to get on with? I'm a firefighter.

    - Valdez
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    How u guts feel about adding dhea?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    No prob bro... I remember you saying something about that. What city are you trying to get on with? I'm a firefighter.

    - Valdez
    Anywhere that will take me! It's so competitive in CT.. do u live here? I'm in the process with two at the moment
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza
    How u guts feel about adding dhea?
    More than likely a waste of money and it will skew your results. Stick with just the test for now until you have good base numbers and they figure out a solid dosage for you. Patience bro...
    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza

    Anywhere that will take me! It's so competitive in CT.. do u live here? I'm in the process with two at the moment
    Nah, I'm in AZ... I hear that dude it took me 6 years to finally get hired. Stick with it!

    - Valdez
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    idk what your opinion is on gray area research chems... but both Clomid and hcg can be acquired at a few of them... I'd really look into that if insurance won't cover it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough
    idk what your opinion is on gray area research chems... but both Clomid and hcg can be acquired at a few of them... I'd really look into that if insurance won't cover it.
    Like off the street? Idk what research chems mean. I can't be getting stuff off the street lol
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    No sir, they are legitimately sold over the web for research purposes, thus no prescription needed.

    Of course they are "not intended for human consumption"... but are perfectly legal to obtain.

    Have you ever wondered how all the guys here running otc cycles got their pct chemicals?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough
    No sir, they are legitimately sold over the web for research purposes, thus no prescription needed.

    Of course they are "not intended for human consumption"... but are perfectly legal to obtain.

    Have you ever wondered how all the guys here running otc cycles got their pct chemicals?
    Wondered? No, assumed they just had connections lol yes. I could get stuff from ppl at my gym, but like i said a few posts up, trying to become a cop. I've gone that route once before years ago with winny tabs and who knows if they were even legit, I canned it after two weeks due to sides. Anyway, at this point in time i wanna go by my doctor. I just really don't wanna shutdown and lose fertility.
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    Yeah bro, research chems are legit.
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    Well I'm seeing my endo a week early on Friday. Will have been on for 10 days by that point and will either ask for hcg + higher dose or to be pulled off and given clomid/ anything to increase natty production. What rx products can increase test naturally/ not cause shut down?
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza
    Well I'm seeing my endo a week early on Friday. Will have been on for 10 days by that point and will either ask for hcg + higher dose or to be pulled off and given clomid/ anything to increase natty production. What rx products can increase test naturally/ not cause shut down?
    formestane...

    Also even a shot or 2 dosed across a week of hcg could help start to sensitize your testes for production then switch to Clomid and some formestane.

    I just read a study where they gave suppressed rats a shot of hcg then 24hr later formestane right in the testes and it shot test production way up...

    I'm thinking you could just bathe your balls in formestane transdermal, LoL. Better option then injecting your balls.

    DAA would be a good addition here too and without worry considering the inclusion of a powerful ai like formestane.

    High dosing macuna could also help increase production, namely spermatogenesis, so keep that in mind come baby making time as well.

    I'm sure there are quite a few other options... but really is just a shot in the dark coming from me... you should hit up matrix on here...I've seen tons of good stuff from him re trt.
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    Well I saw dr and he increased my adroderm patch to 4mg from 2. And drew blood. Wouldn't entertain anything else atthe time since it's only been 10 days... In just worried that staying on too long will shut me off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza
    Well I saw dr and he increased my adroderm patch to 4mg from 2. And drew blood. Wouldn't entertain anything else atthe time since it's only been 10 days... In just worried that staying on too long will shut me off.
    Well lets go this route... Do you plan on staying on it forever? If not, taking it for a while and then stopping is only going to set you back.

    - Valdez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    Well lets go this route... Do you plan on staying on it forever? If not, taking it for a while and then stopping is only going to set you back.

    - Valdez
    Well I do, but I plan on stopping if I have to in order to have kids. Idk.. It's only been 10 days. Another 20 or 30 shouldn't really set me back so much? He needs to assess the effects and then figure out If we can add anything like hcg or move to clomid..
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    Hey guys if you stop trt will sperm and fertility come back if you wanna have a baby? Or are you screwed for life? I also haven't noticed any strength gains being on trt of 200mg a week test cypionate injections. I didn't expect extreme strength difference but I honestly feel it hasn't changed either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza

    Well I do, but I plan on stopping if I have to in order to have kids. Idk.. It's only been 10 days. Another 20 or 30 shouldn't really set me back so much? He needs to assess the effects and then figure out If we can add anything like hcg or move to clomid..
    My captain - On TRT for.3 years an RX of HCG and he got his wife pregnant. There is no guarantee though everyone responds differently to different things.

    Another 20-30mg? I'm not real familiar with the patch but with an exogenous source coming in no matter the amount endogenous production will decrease. How much or little? We won't know until it happens and you have bloods.

    - Valdez
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiijedi
    Hey guys if you stop trt will sperm and fertility come back if you wanna have a baby? Or are you screwed for life? I also haven't noticed any strength gains being on trt of 200mg a week test cypionate injections. I didn't expect extreme strength difference but I honestly feel it hasn't changed either.
    There are no guarantees... More than likely yes, but THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES. You will have to basically PCT off of the TRT depending on your body who knows how long that will take if ever. You more than likely will be given Clomid and will be forced to get your own natural testosterone up.

    With that being said, is TRT worth it? That's up to you to decide.

    What were your levels before? And what are they now?

    - Valdez
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiijedi
    I didn't expect extreme strength difference but I honestly feel it hasn't changed either.
    It doesn't, I was actually stronger before TRT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexmuscle

    It doesn't, I was actually stronger before TRT.
    Not necessarily true and that's quite the bold assertion to make.

    Testosterone given to someone dialed in on everything -adequate sleep, zero changes in diet and training should elicit strength increases. At the beginning you have to remember you are still getting your levels to where you want them, so you may be going low at times during the initial phases. In addition, delivery method has a decent effect i.e. injections vs gel, I've almost always seen more bodybuilding specific benefits in injections.

    - Valdez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez

    Not necessarily true and that's quite the bold assertion to make.

    Testosterone given to someone dialed in on everything -adequate sleep, zero changes in diet and training should elicit strength increases. At the beginning you have to remember you are still getting your levels to where you want them, so you may be going low at times during the initial phases. In addition, delivery method has a decent effect i.e. injections vs gel, I've almost always seen more bodybuilding specific benefits in injections.

    - Valdez
    I meant that it doesn't give you a boost in strength, like you don't feel it immediately (like a preworkout stimulant). That's what I thought before I started TRT, that testosterone injections would be like an adrenalin rush or something haha I look at test being more like a protein shake, helps you rebuild, in a major way though.
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    Valdez, my levels before trt were free test of 320 and total test around 480 and now my numbers are free test 648, total test 1908 and estrogen was 12. I am going by memory on the pre test trt results I'm still trying to find the paperwork.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexmuscle

    I meant that it doesn't give you a boost in strength, like you don't feel it immediately (like a preworkout stimulant). That's what I thought before I started TRT, that testosterone injections would be like an adrenalin rush or something haha I look at test being more like a protein shake, helps you rebuild, in a major way though.
    Oh ok, my mistake. Yes it is not an immediate effect although some people do report with feeling "something" (probably placebo).

    You should however over time definitely notice a difference and improvement of quality of life - mood, energy, confident etc...

    - Valdez
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiijedi
    Valdez, my levels before trt were free test of 320 and total test around 480 and now my numbers are free test 648, total test 1908 and estrogen was 12. I am going by memory on the pre test trt results I'm still trying to find the paperwork.
    No ****ing way! Where are you getting that much test?! Also, total test 1908 is NOT a level you want to maintain for extended periods of time.

    Your diet and training or a combination is off. With that much test you should gain strength looking at weights bud. Eat more protein.

    - Valdez
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    I actually load up on protein shakes 3 times a day. I have a back ground in training and pretty much know what I'm doing in the gym. I hardly get adequate sleep every day though about 5 hours. I also am under a lot of stress right now in my life. I get 200mg of test cypionate 1cc once a week by injection.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiijedi
    I actually load up on protein shakes 3 times a day. I have a back ground in training and pretty much know what I'm doing in the gym. I hardly get adequate sleep every day though about 5 hours. I also am under a lot of stress right now in my life. I get 200mg of test cypionate 1cc once a week by injection.
    Protein shakes really don't mean all that much. Eat more protein. Hey some good whole animal proteins in brother.

    Sleep could most definitely be a factor and stress is killer as well. That's cool you have a background in training man, you're one step ahead of most.

    Are you sure your results weren't 908? Usually range cut offs are 1500 ng/dl... If they're that high its usual "your results are 1500 ng/dl +"...

    - Valdez
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    I am think it was ng/dl ill double check paperwork when I get home and post it but I'm pretty sure it was ng/dl
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiijedi
    I am think it was ng/dl ill double check paperwork when I get home and post it but I'm pretty sure it was ng/dl
    No no that's not where the question lies...

    1908 vs 908 ng/dl is how the results are read its just the measurement.

    I'm thinking you are actually 908 ng/dl not 1908 ng/dl... Let me know I'm curious now because seriously dude 1908 is crazy high

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    Hawaii, he was meaning the "1908". Was it actually "908"? Not the measurement
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    Wow to 1908... Hope that was. Typo..

    My total was 288 and free 28.

    I will have bw results from 2mg andro patch next week. Been bumped to 4mg. In terms of strength gains, I think ALL strength is part mental. I have been pushing myself for that extra rep or extra 5lbs per dumbbell since starting trt and expecting to make progress. I have. Whether it is placebo or actual increased performance I don't know. Well see about the bw... I feel like the increase in strength is mostly from the IDEA that I am getting extra test....
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    Ok I checked the results, free and total testosterone was 1908 ng/dl with reference range 250-1100. My free testosterone was 643.0 pg/ml reference range being 35.0-155.0 that's the numbers folks. Let me know what you think guys. I am going to do another lab in a month or two.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiijedi
    Ok I checked the results, free and total testosterone was 1908 ng/dl with reference range 250-1100. My free testosterone was 643.0 pg/ml reference range being 35.0-155.0 that's the numbers folks. Let me know what you think guys. I am going to do another lab in a month or two.
    I think u are the incredible hulk or u need a new lab ASAP.
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    Yeah, with those numbers, if you are training hard as hell in the right way, your strength should go up noticeably almost every time you hit the gym.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Not necessarily true and that's quite the bold assertion to make.

    Testosterone given to someone dialed in on everything -adequate sleep, zero changes in diet and training should elicit strength increases. At the beginning you have to remember you are still getting your levels to where you want them, so you may be going low at times during the initial phases. In addition, delivery method has a decent effect i.e. injections vs gel, I've almost always seen more bodybuilding specific benefits in injections.

    - Valdez
    True. Strength increases will most definitely come, but I think people expect it to be a night and day difference. What it does more than make you stronger, is it changes composition, lowers BF, puts muscle weight on, and dramatically decreases recovery time. When this happens, it becomes mental and you see changes, so you are encouraged to do more.

    I was doing a lot of HIIT over the summer because I was doing a lot of events and competitions that involved a high cardio level. TRT really helped my recovery after hard training and my body didn't break down like it might have. Now for the last couple of months I decided I wanted to break my old "big 3" lifts and have been concentrating on that. I smashed them after only 2 months after not lifting for 2-3 rep purposes in over two years. This is mainly because TRT allows me to train that much harder and remain strong instead of needed twice as long to recover.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiijedi
    Ok I checked the results, free and total testosterone was 1908 ng/dl with reference range 250-1100. My free testosterone was 643.0 pg/ml reference range being 35.0-155.0 that's the numbers folks. Let me know what you think guys. I am going to do another lab in a month or two.
    I think that you really need evaluate everything at 1908 strength should be the least of your concerns. You should get a pump when you sneeze dude.

    - Valdez
    Olympus Labs DemiGod And Rep ~ http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/253076-spaniards-coliseum-featuring.html~http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/220023-valdez-goes-back-29.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj

    True. Strength increases will most definitely come, but I think people expect it to be a night and day difference. What it does more than make you stronger, is it changes composition, lowers BF, puts muscle weight on, and dramatically decreases recovery time. When this happens, it becomes mental and you see changes, so you are encouraged to do more.

    I was doing a lot of HIIT over the summer because I was doing a lot of events and competitions that involved a high cardio level. TRT really helped my recovery after hard training and my body didn't break down like it might have. Now for the last couple of months I decided I wanted to break my old "big 3" lifts and have been concentrating on that. I smashed them after only 2 months after not lifting for 2-3 rep purposes in over two years. This is mainly because TRT allows me to train that much harder and remain strong instead of needed twice as long to recover.
    Absolutely brother. All the dudes at my station are on TRT except myself and they recover so quickly its unreal!!!!

    - Valdez
    Olympus Labs DemiGod And Rep ~ http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/253076-spaniards-coliseum-featuring.html~http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/220023-valdez-goes-back-29.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj

    True. Strength increases will most definitely come, but I think people expect it to be a night and day difference. What it does more than make you stronger, is it changes composition, lowers BF, puts muscle weight on, and dramatically decreases recovery time. When this happens, it becomes mental and you see changes, so you are encouraged to do more.

    I was doing a lot of HIIT over the summer because I was doing a lot of events and competitions that involved a high cardio level. TRT really helped my recovery after hard training and my body didn't break down like it might have. Now for the last couple of months I decided I wanted to break my old "big 3" lifts and have been concentrating on that. I smashed them after only 2 months after not lifting for 2-3 rep purposes in over two years. This is mainly because TRT allows me to train that much harder and remain strong instead of needed twice as long to recover.
    My results at 200mg/ week are almost identical, I can hit the gym like a madman and recover in 48hrs. My BW on 200 mg is total T 1100, 1900 does not sound right. This should have alarmed your doc. At 1900 your not doing TRT, you are on a cycle!
    "Pain is weakness leaving the body"
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    Well for some reason he wasn't alarmed but now I am after reading all of your helpful posts. I will be doing blood work in about a month or two. If my levels are still that high I will drop shots down to 100 mg a week instead of the 200mg a week. I just started to take. 5mg of anastrazole 2times a week instead of the 1mg 3 times a week that I have been doing which I think killed my libido.
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    Your libido issue could definitely be low E2. At 200mg/ week I do not use an AI at all. What prompted you to use an AI, high E2 blood work? If so, I get it, if not, you may want to rethink using an AI. Even on cycle, I do not use an AI until I start to experience E2 sides, starts with itchy nips for me, that's when I know it's needed.

    Remember, E2 helps with strength due to a little water retention, etc.
    "Pain is weakness leaving the body"
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