high dose hcg

[destro]

hello, I am a 35 year old male with low t/libido. I am currently using clomid and hcg together to try to restart my axis. i am currently taking 120iu per day as advised by one doctor. another doctor that I have consulted with has said that the dosage of hcg is not nearly enough to get into gear and that dosages up to 1000iu's per day are necessary. I am hesitant to do this since I have heard that prolonged use of hcg at such high dosage can cause primary hypo. I'm really desperate at this point but do not want to start on a permanent test replacement therapy that will suppress me even more.

 

[aj power]

From what I have read 1000 iu is far to high.

This is from Dr John Crisler
"You also run the risk of inducing LH insensitivity at higher dosages, and therefore may actually cause primary hypogonadism while attempting to treat secondary hypogonadism. HCG, especially at higher doses (defined as >500IU per shot), also dramatically increases aromatase activity, thus inappropriately elevating estrogens. Progesterone—a feminizing hormone in adult males—also elevates at those dosages. Personally, I recommend giving no more than 100IU of HCG per day, as starting dose. And please give it some time to work."

This guy uses it in his practice daily he knows what he is talking about on this subject.

 

[bad rad]

In your case 1000iu is probably too high, that style of dosing is for males that had undescended testicles and other major functional issues. I wouldn't dose more than 500iu E3D.

 

[Deca200]

Know u not like it. But a smal dose test will do the job.

 

[Deca200]

I foget to mention Tribulus.. Some might laugh right now. But i use it after all my cycles. Together when i do pct. And its great for libido. Some say it not work and others say it's the BOMB!! Give it a try bro. I fn love this product and i recommend it to everyone...

 

[The Matrix]

hello, I am a 35 year old male with low t/libido. I am currently using clomid and hcg together to try to restart my axis. i am currently taking 120iu per day as advised by one doctor. another doctor that I have consulted with has said that the dosage of hcg is not nearly enough to get into gear and that dosages up to 1000iu's per day are necessary. I am hesitant to do this since I have heard that prolonged use of hcg at such high dosage can cause primary hypo. I'm really desperate at this point but do not want to start on a permanent test replacement therapy that will suppress me even more.

You need to look at factors effect the testosterone work more efficiently instead of focusing on just hormones. You need to find out why your testosterone is low in the first place. This is done through proper testing and detailed personal history. Normally it takes a indept approach to know where to begin. Every case is different, Prolonged HCG of more then 500 ius day can cause down regulation the same as clomid to the LH receptors which is not good. It will not cause your to go primary, but one would need to back off for a good 2 months in order for Lh receptors sensitivity to re-establish. I applaud your DR for going HCG, but one needs to take a over all approach by examining the hidden stressors which got you there in the first place which could be at the underlying cause.

 

[Deca200]

^^^^^Good point there bro !!

 

[DetroitHammer]

From what I have read 1000 iu is far to high.

This is from Dr John Crisler
"You also run the risk of inducing LH insensitivity at higher dosages, and therefore may actually cause primary hypogonadism while attempting to treat secondary hypogonadism. HCG, especially at higher doses (defined as >500IU per shot), also dramatically increases aromatase activity, thus inappropriately elevating estrogens. Progesterone—a feminizing hormone in adult males—also elevates at those dosages. Personally, I recommend giving no more than 100IU of HCG per day, as starting dose. And please give it some time to work."

This guy uses it in his practice daily he knows what he is talking about on this subject.

Dr Crisler is not too far from me. He and I have talked a few times on TRT. I've been to his "man cave" and saw his operation. He treats a lot of athletes who have shut down and need to restart. He has clients from all over the states and is quite well known. I like his take on HCG and have followed his advice since day-one. I don't agree on everything he does, but he is very knowledgeable on TRT.

 

[The Matrix]

Dr Crisler is not too far from me. He and I have talked a few times on TRT. I've been to his "man cave" and saw his operation. He treats a lot of athletes who have shut down and need to restart. He has clients from all over the states and is quite well known. I like his take on HCG and have followed his advice since day-one. I don't agree on everything he does, but he is very knowledgeable on TRT.

He does know HRT,
When was this article written? Just curioius I know it constantly being revised which is great.. I have been saying people been taking way too much HCG since the get go. Here is my reasoning. When a person is on TRT use the testosterone to drive the proper levels of T then use HCG just to keep the LH functioning at the lowest dosage possible which I have been saying for close 3 years. Do not use HCG to drive testosterone up in many guys it just converts to estrodial which is counter productive. HCG has its place and I know people who take 50 ius 2 times a week get the benefit not so much the testicular size, but rather the neurological effects LH has on the brain as well as other parts of the body. If you are over 50, and have no depression then HCG may not be best in this scenerio, but younger guys its an option along as there is a benefit to risk ratio of stabilized estradiol.

 

[DetroitHammer]

He does know HRT,
When a person is on TRT use the testosterone to drive the proper levels of T then use HCG just to keep the LH functioning at the lowest dosage possible which I have been saying for close 3 years. Do not use HCG to drive testosterone up...

Agreed 100%.

 

[breezy11]

Am I correct in thinking that if hcg is used at minimal beneficial doses it would not effect typical TRT blood tests(LH level specifically)? Perhaps only an e2 increase if prone to aromatisation?

 

[The Matrix]

Am I correct in thinking that if hcg is used at minimal beneficial doses it would not effect typical TRT blood tests(LH level specifically)? Perhaps only an e2 increase if prone to aromatisation?

SMaller dosages will still impact the LH levels on blood test. ITs still a negative feed back loop mechanism

 

[breezy11]

SMaller dosages will still impact the LH levels on blood test. ITs still a negative feed back loop mechanism

I should have rephrased my question. With the administration of exogenous test LH is already at rock bottom. I more or less wanted to know if low level hcg added to trt would most likely go unoticed in regards to lab work.

 

[The Matrix]

I should have rephrased my question. With the administration of exogenous test LH is already at rock bottom. I more or less wanted to know if low level hcg added to trt would most likely go unoticed in regards to lab work.

It depends on what else is out of balance. I have seen HCG raise progesterone, cortisol and lower DHEA in pre and after adminstration significantly. Every one is different why all hormones have to be monitored

 

[aj power]

This is from his "My current best thoughts on how to administer TRT for men" second edition. I think he has a pretty well researched tried and tested restart protocol as well available on his site. Unsure of the date for this one tho sorry.

He does know HRT,
When was this article written? Just curioius I know it constantly being revised which is great.. I have been saying people been taking way too much HCG since the get go. Here is my reasoning. When a person is on TRT use the testosterone to drive the proper levels of T then use HCG just to keep the LH functioning at the lowest dosage possible which I have been saying for close 3 years. Do not use HCG to drive testosterone up in many guys it just converts to estrodial which is counter productive. HCG has its place and I know people who take 50 ius 2 times a week get the benefit not so much the testicular size, but rather the neurological effects LH has on the brain as well as other parts of the body. If you are over 50, and have no depression then HCG may not be best in this scenerio, but younger guys its an option along as there is a benefit to risk ratio of stabilized estradiol.

 

[aj power]

I should have rephrased my question. With the administration of exogenous test LH is already at rock bottom. I more or less wanted to know if low level hcg added to trt would most likely go unoticed in regards to lab work.

The fact you are taking HCG will not be detected in routine Dr ordered blood testing (they don't as a matter of course do pregnancy tests on blokes). The effects of HCG on the other hand will almost certainly be noticed as Matrix explained and could result in unwanted changes to your Drs treatment ... worst case senario less test being prescribed.

 

[breezy11]

The fact you are taking HCG will not be detected in routine Dr ordered blood testing (they don't as a matter of course do pregnancy tests on blokes). The effects of HCG on the other hand will almost certainly be noticed as Matrix explained and could result in unwanted changes to your Drs treatment ... worst case senario less test being prescribed.

I'm personally not using hcg. However, if I was to start (without trt doctor on board) I would try to have testing done prior to seeing the trt doc to avoid any big surprises.