Panic attacks

[Jeff]

Ok, so I have been dealing with panic attacks since my late teens and early 20s. I haven't had an attack for about 2 years, but had one that was off the freakin' chain at work last Tuesday. There is no calming my self down, this appears to be completely chemical/hormonal type of response, one second completely normal, the next second the worst flight/fight reacation you have ever know times a 1000. Last for what feels like an eternity but probably 5 minutes max. This article has the symptoms pretty much nailed. No More Panic - Common Symptoms of Panic Attacks, Anxiety, Phobias and OCD. This one was so bad that I actually had my wife take me to the Dr for an EKG to make sure it wasn't a heart attack.

I am what my primary care provider would call "borderline" hypothyroidal, but she refuses to treat me for it because my TSH is in range. She has prescribe Xanex and Zoloft for this condition in the past, both of which I do not want to take. My attacks are infrequent but intense when I have them so I do not want to be on Xanax constantly as it makes me feel high all the time. Zoloft makes me impotent.

I switched to a different primary care Dr who ran the same test and came to the same conclusion that I was borderline hypo (again only using TSH as a guide) and put me on Armour thyroid and that seemed to do the trick. However, he retired about 3 years ago. I have found a new dr that I am looking to go see and want to make sure that they test the right things, they have already agreed to a full thyroid panel, but should I also have them check my cortisol/adrenal function? Is there any kind of definite correlation to slow thyroid or weak adrenals and panic disorders? I also have low test (290 - 310 range) and my estrogen levels usually come back between 25 and 30, there seems to be some correlation between high estrogen levels in men and panic attacks, but I am not sure if 25-30 would be considered "high" enough for that.

 

[AttilaTheHorn]

I am a psychiatrist and it really sounds like you need to be on an SSRI type medication to prevent the panic attacks. Zoloft is one of the worst when it comes to side effects. I would reccomendation trying Lexapro. The Xanax is good to take infrequently in case you get a panic attack but absolutely do not take it all the time or you WILL get addicted to it.

Another new medication is out called Viibryd that supposedly doesn't cause the sexual side effects but has SSRI activity. It is expensive though.

Panic disorder suuuuucks. I have had two panic attacks in my life and they both came out of nowhere. I can't imagine having them frequently. I feel for ya man.

 

[The Matrix]

You need to look at the underlying pathology where the source is coming from
If its biological you need to deal with it, if its psyhcological then counseling would be highly suggest.
If they are becoming distruptive if your daily life then you may want to seek medication temporary untill the other issues are furthered investigated. 80% of psychological cases I have dealt with has been result of or aggravated by an imbalance in neurology, GI, liver, endocrine, environmental imbalances.

Ok, so I have been dealing with panic attacks since my late teens and early 20s. I haven't had an attack for about 2 years, but had one that was off the freakin' chain at work last Tuesday. There is no calming my self down, this appears to be completely chemical/hormonal type of response, one second completely normal, the next second the worst flight/fight reacation you have ever know times a 1000. Last for what feels like an eternity but probably 5 minutes max. This article has the symptoms pretty much nailed. No More Panic - Common Symptoms of Panic Attacks, Anxiety, Phobias and OCD. This one was so bad that I actually had my wife take me to the Dr for an EKG to make sure it wasn't a heart attack.

I am what my primary care provider would call "borderline" hypothyroidal, but she refuses to treat me for it because my TSH is in range. She has prescribe Xanex and Zoloft for this condition in the past, both of which I do not want to take. My attacks are infrequent but intense when I have them so I do not want to be on Xanax constantly as it makes me feel high all the time. Zoloft makes me impotent.

I switched to a different primary care Dr who ran the same test and came to the same conclusion that I was borderline hypo (again only using TSH as a guide) and put me on Armour thyroid and that seemed to do the trick. However, he retired about 3 years ago. I have found a new dr that I am looking to go see and want to make sure that they test the right things, they have already agreed to a full thyroid panel, but should I also have them check my cortisol/adrenal function? Is there any kind of definite correlation to slow thyroid or weak adrenals and panic disorders? I also have low test (290 - 310 range) and my estrogen levels usually come back between 25 and 30, there seems to be some correlation between high estrogen levels in men and panic attacks, but I am not sure if 25-30 would be considered "high" enough for that.

 

[Jeff]

I am a psychiatrist and it really sounds like you need to be on an SSRI type medication to prevent the panic attacks. Zoloft is one of the worst when it comes to side effects. I would reccomendation trying Lexapro. The Xanax is good to take infrequently in case you get a panic attack but absolutely do not take it all the time or you WILL get addicted to it.

Another new medication is out called Viibryd that supposedly doesn't cause the sexual side effects but has SSRI activity. It is expensive though.

Panic disorder suuuuucks. I have had two panic attacks in my life and they both came out of nowhere. I can't imagine having them frequently. I feel for ya man.

Thanks Attila, I will discuss Lexapro and Viibryd with the doctor at my upcoming appointment.

 

[jonko]

I have a similar problem, all my life. For a time I couldn't drive on highways or go very far from the house without getting them
Lexapro was a godsend, really helped. BUT killed my libido. Well, thats not really true, it didn't kill it, but it numbed the penis a little. So rather then feeling like sex every day it was maybe once a week.
I was not on testosterone at that time though, I would be curious to know if T replacement would counter the negative effects of Lexapro

 

[The Matrix]

I have a similar problem, all my life. For a time I couldn't drive on highways or go very far from the house without getting them
Lexapro was a godsend, really helped. BUT killed my libido. Well, thats not really true, it didn't kill it, but it numbed the penis a little. So rather then feeling like sex every day it was maybe once a week.
I was not on testosterone at that time though, I would be curious to know if T replacement would counter the negative effects of Lexapro

May want to get a nuclear stress test done and EKG to make sure there are no blockages or abnormalities in your electrical systems of your heart which may be leading to these panics attack. Its amazing how people start reaching for pills when there may be deeper issues which are being masked. I see this more and more. treat the person not the symptoms ...Medical intervention is needed in some instances, but one needs to look into other avenue as what may be causing the paniac in the first place.

REason for anxiety disorders seen in clinical experience which resolved when corrected

1. Hypothyroid
2. low adrenals
3. Food allergies
4. Alter GI eco system
5. Nutritional deficiency
6. low testosterone
7. High/low e2
8. Heavy metals and environmental hypersentitivity
9. Hidden infections - lyme, mold, EBV, ect (other impacts on immune system)
10. unresolved psychological issues of past events imbedded in subconsious mind vs conscious mind.
11. Neurotransmitter imbalances.
12. Electrical imbalance in the CVD - AFIB, needing ablasions or other surgical interventions.
13. Structural imbalances - SPinal alignment, TMJ, ect

 

[jonko]

May want to get a nuclear stress test done and EKG to make sure there are no blockages or abnormalities in your electrical systems of your heart which may be leading to these panics attack. Its amazing how people start reaching for pills when there may be deeper issues which are being masked. I see this more and more. treat the person not the symptoms ...Medical intervention is needed in some instances, but one needs to look into other avenue as what may be causing the paniac in the first place.

REason for anxiety disorders seen in clinical experience which resolved when corrected

1. Hypothyroid
2. low adrenals
3. Food allergies
4. Alter GI eco system
5. Nutritional deficiency
6. low testosterone
7. High/low e2
8. Heavy metals and environmental hypersentitivity
9. Hidden infections - lyme, mold, EBV, ect (other impacts on immune system)
10. unresolved psychological issues of past events imbedded in subconsious mind vs conscious mind.
11. Neurotransmitter imbalances.
12. Electrical imbalance in the CVD - AFIB, needing ablasions or other surgical interventions.
13. Structural imbalances - SPinal alignment, TMJ, ect

Been there done that. Last year when I firs started on androgen my blood pressure was trending up. I think I may have posted the whole saga on here. Anyway, I had an EKG, halter and Stress Test. Cardiologist said all was well.
Funny you mention hypothyroid though. As I said in another post, I am going to look into this further as I seem to have the symptoms

 

[The Matrix]

From.your results it appears to be low.but with tsh.low i.would.have Dr check into.pituitary issues or.might just.be missing building block low iodine or.other
hope this helps .

 

[SJA]

I have had panic attacks for several decades. About 7 years ago I got them under control. Xanax is not something that I would take frequently due to its addiction charactaristics. I now take 10mg Paxil every day and use Phenibut when I feel it but need to stay alert. Xanax is what I use when I fly. I also found that listening to Marconi Union or other relaxation music helps as does a hypnosis/relaxation DVD that I have from TRavis Foxx

Of course stimulation of the CNS will magnify the already existing problem.....but understand that there IS a pre-existing condition. Most people with anxiety have something going on in their life which they cannot control (work, spouse, kids etc). Just embrace the fact that you only have control of certain things in life and that there is a difference between success and significance. It takes practice to learn how to accept certain things in life.....and a small dose of the right SSRI can take the edge off so that you can work on a logical thinking process.


My $0.02

 

[AttilaTheHorn]

I was assuming you had been checked out medically in my answer above. I was also assuming that these seemed to come out of nowhere. In that case it's usually primarily biological in origin - a hyper sensitized amygdala.

One interesting thing about panic attacks is that lactic acid can induce them. One of the two panic attacks I got occurred after I did a set of squats. They have actually induced panic attacks in people by giving them an IV injection of lactic acid. So make of that what you will.

I'm also assuming you didn't get them after high doses of caffeine. Or worse...this 1,3 DMAA stuff that's in lots of prewar out energy drinks. I've actually had people come to see me for panic attacks and they're drinking four or five of those Monster or Red Bull drinks a day.

I would also say that aerobic exercise is probably the best anti anxiety treatment there is. Get into that. Anaerobic (lifting) is ok but not nearly as good as aerobic when it comes to anxiety.

If you're really convinced it's biological in nature find yourself a good psychiatrist. I LOVE treating panic disorder because I almost always get people significantly better and they're profusely thankful for it. It is totally treatable. But do start running - that's guaranteed to help.

 

[Jeff]

I was assuming you had been checked out medically in my answer above. I was also assuming that these seemed to come out of nowhere. In that case it's usually primarily biological in origin - a hyper sensitized amygdala.

One interesting thing about panic attacks is that lactic acid can induce them. One of the two panic attacks I got occurred after I did a set of squats. They have actually induced panic attacks in people by giving them an IV injection of lactic acid. So make of that what you will.

I'm also assuming you didn't get them after high doses of caffeine. Or worse...this 1,3 DMAA stuff that's in lots of prewar out energy drinks. I've actually had people come to see me for panic attacks and they're drinking four or five of those Monster or Red Bull drinks a day.

I would also say that aerobic exercise is probably the best anti anxiety treatment there is. Get into that. Anaerobic (lifting) is ok but not nearly as good as aerobic when it comes to anxiety.

If you're really convinced it's biological in nature find yourself a good psychiatrist. I LOVE treating panic disorder because I almost always get people significantly better and they're profusely thankful for it. It is totally treatable. But do start running - that's guaranteed to help.

Hi Attila, I did get checked out about a half hour after the last attack, that is when they hooked me up to the EKG machine. I did not know that lactic acid levels could be a cause for the onset, the day before I played about an hour and a half of tennis and then went to boxing for about an hour an a half. I do drink about 3 cups of coffee a day but I stay clear of any other stimulants or energy drinks. I am schedule for a compete physical checkup in a couple of weeks.

I have been running and doing more cardio lately; my daughter has been doing Girls-on-the-run at school so we have been getting 2 or 3 miles in a couple of days a week. Last year I did my first triathlon in 20 years as 40th birthday present to myself.

I have cut my lifting days down to 2 a week, heavy compound stuff.

 

[Jeff]

I have a similar problem, all my life. For a time I couldn't drive on highways or go very far from the house without getting them

Oh man, that sounds familiar

 

[The Matrix]

I was assuming you had been checked out medically in my answer above. I was also assuming that these seemed to come out of nowhere. In that case it's usually primarily biological in origin - a hyper sensitized amygdala.

One interesting thing about panic attacks is that lactic acid can induce them. One of the two panic attacks I got occurred after I did a set of squats. They have actually induced panic attacks in people by giving them an IV injection of lactic acid. So make of that what you will.

I'm also assuming you didn't get them after high doses of caffeine. Or worse...this 1,3 DMAA stuff that's in lots of prewar out energy drinks. I've actually had people come to see me for panic attacks and they're drinking four or five of those Monster or Red Bull drinks a day.

I would also say that aerobic exercise is probably the best anti anxiety treatment there is. Get into that. Anaerobic (lifting) is ok but not nearly as good as aerobic when it comes to anxiety.

If you're really convinced it's biological in nature find yourself a good psychiatrist. I LOVE treating panic disorder because I almost always get people significantly better and they're profusely thankful for it. It is totally treatable. But do start running - that's guaranteed to help.

Attilia I applaud you for taking such an approach, I use neuorscience which has been a great tool in looking deeper into why people may have anxiety disorders. Even though I am a certified hypnotherapist, pain management, and NLP practictioner there are just areas which are left to the experts to deal with like your self

 

[chaz92398]

REason for anxiety disorders seen in clinical experience which resolved when corrected

7. High/low e2

This was the main cause of my attacks. I'm on TRT of 80mg 2x a week and tried to control my own estrogen levels OTC. I switched to arimidex and it's made a major difference.

Get these levels checked. My estrogen was high in relation to my test before I started TRT causing attacks.

 

[blackers]

You need to look at the underlying pathology where the source is coming from
If its biological you need to deal with it, if its psyhcological then counseling would be highly suggest.
If they are becoming distruptive if your daily life then you may want to seek medication temporary untill the other issues are furthered investigated. 80% of psychological cases I have dealt with has been result of or aggravated by an imbalance in neurology, GI, liver, endocrine, environmental imbalances.

Well said matrix! I had anxiety attacks with infrequent but occasional panic attacks for around 10 years. I always knew the source wasn't psychological but the psychology gets mixed in over time. I went through the process of trial and error with all sorts of 'known' triggers... literally read and read and read. Eventually I decided to put my hand in my pocket and get my Mercury Amalgam fillings removed, it was a big gamble and cost me c£1200. Things started improving after I had the first batch done. Long story short, I have been anxiety attack free for over 3 years now. I've been off medication for over 3 years (I was on and off ADs). When I look back it seems like a different person but I was managing as best I could with a toxic substance causing havoc in my body and mind!

 

[The Matrix]

Yes, but what do I know lol Problem is people are looking from some magical answer through a labyrinth of blood tests and fairy dust when the answer is right under your nose. In vast majority, the answer to the more complex problems are the simple ones just over looked. See it all the time from cases trickling down from the big wigs. $1500 for them to spend 20 minutes with you then charge you for an hour letting the PA do all the work..I hear about it constantly. .

Anxiety was coming from high glutamate low gaba which I seen often in heavy metal toxicity. .

In uk your health care system is horrible and in the dark ages. We are looking to change that as I have challenging cases from patients of the 2 top integrative MD where we are collaborating on cases which is a start..

 

[damage007]

May want to get a nuclear stress test done and EKG to make sure there are no blockages or abnormalities in your electrical systems of your heart which may be leading to these panics attack. Its amazing how people start reaching for pills when there may be deeper issues which are being masked. I see this more and more. treat the person not the symptoms ...Medical intervention is needed in some instances, but one needs to look into other avenue as what may be causing the paniac in the first place.

REason for anxiety disorders seen in clinical experience which resolved when corrected

1. Hypothyroid
2. low adrenals
3. Food allergies
4. Alter GI eco system
5. Nutritional deficiency
6. low testosterone
7. High/low e2
8. Heavy metals and environmental hypersentitivity
9. Hidden infections - lyme, mold, EBV, ect (other impacts on immune system)
10. unresolved psychological issues of past events imbedded in subconsious mind vs conscious mind.
11. Neurotransmitter imbalances.
12. Electrical imbalance in the CVD - AFIB, needing ablasions or other surgical interventions.
13. Structural imbalances - SPinal alignment, TMJ, ect

Also add to that
1.) Social status / Incompleteness / lack of social contact or support characters.
2.) Past trauma
3.) Psychogenic dependence / past dependence on benzo's.
4.) Epigenetic drug use in the past, such as SSRI's and anti-psychotics.
5.) Use of norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors in herbal diet.
6.) Iron toxicity.
7.) Consumption of soy or other natural GABA blockers.
8.) too much glutamic acid in diet.
9.) Pheochromocytoma or other adrenal tumors.
10.) Excitotoxicity temporarily induced by EMFI/ECP exposure.

 

[j2048b]

Im glad i found this thread as this past summer received a gigantic pin of test c for trt and had a what they called a few panic attacks, ffwd to now and i only have to grab a xanax every once in a while.... I dont want to use it but it helps damn near instantly and only take maybe 1 per month if that and a very tiny dosage like 5mlg per tab....

But i was told if u take a xanax and fall asleep its not anxiety but if it works and it makes u more alert then its anxiety.....dunno how true this is?

Also im glad to have read a very informative thread that gives me some great ideas of what to look for and ask the docs

 

[damage007]

Im glad i found this thread as this past summer received a gigantic pin of test c for trt and had a what they called a few panic attacks, ffwd to now and i only have to grab a xanax every once in a while.... I dont want to use it but it helps damn near instantly and only take maybe 1 per month if that and a very tiny dosage like 5mlg per tab....

But i was told if u take a xanax and fall asleep its not anxiety but if it works and it makes u more alert then its anxiety.....dunno how true this is?

Also im glad to have read a very informative thread that gives me some great ideas of what to look for and ask the docs

If it makes you more alert and clear-headed but less anxious then yes, it's anxiety of some sort and possible you have glutamate excess.
Pinning test shouldn't make you anxious, but if you get too much estrogen conversion then it can certain ramp up anxiety or if you have a pre-existing adrenaline issue...or general excitotoxicity...such as eating too much chinese food or garbage like ramen noodles..also artificial carbs have preservatives and such which can aggravate anxiety..for example, if you eat cereal, eat oatmeal...oats won't cause anxiety or such but things like lucky charms or heavily sweetened cereals can cause histamine/glutamate efflux.

Also, too much serotonin can cause anxiety and panic attacks as well as hyper-sensitivity to sound and sudden movements...http://area1255.blogspot.co.at/2015/05/symptoms-signs-of-too-much-serotonin.html

 

[j2048b]

If it makes you more alert and clear-headed but less anxious then yes, it's anxiety of some sort and possible you have glutamate excess.
Pinning test shouldn't make you anxious, but if you get too much estrogen conversion then it can certain ramp up anxiety or if you have a pre-existing adrenaline issue...or general excitotoxicity...such as eating too much chinese food or garbage like ramen noodles..also artificial carbs have preservatives and such which can aggravate anxiety..for example, if you eat cereal, eat oatmeal...oats won't cause anxiety or such but things like lucky charms or heavily sweetened cereals can cause histamine/glutamate efflux.

Also, too much serotonin can cause anxiety and panic attacks as well as hyper-sensitivity to sound and sudden movements...http://area1255.blogspot.co.at/2015/05/symptoms-signs-of-too-much-serotonin.html

Yeah its odd because now at the sight of blood i freak a bit! It all started from a horrible phlem that i passed out while doing this past summer, dumb assnurse held the gigantic needle in myarm and a bag of blood right in front of me andi could see the needle moving around and crap it was horrible! Caused a whole weekend of crap storm wheremy legs were cramping like crazzy and my potassium levels dropped a ton!

Then 4 days later i went to work and had another episode this past year! Now its more than likely a psychological thing moreso than anything?

 

[The Matrix]

This is why history and proper evaluations are necessary to identify the underlying issue. The 23andme is a good tool to use see where your genetic predisposition may lie. You can run it through mthfrsupport or other online applications. This will show how your genetic hard wiring may be playing a part in your current or future health..

 

[j2048b]

This is why history and proper evaluations are necessary to identify the underlying issue. The 23andme is a good tool to use see where your genetic predisposition may lie. You can run it through mthfrsupport or other online applications. This will show how your genetic hard wiring may be playing a part in your current or future health..

Ueah i did both 23andme and then paid and went thru the mthfrsuppprt and get a great read up on everything but im not keen on stuff like that so i dont know what really could be causing most stuff that happens to me.... They lay it out pretty well and the bad is in red but still dont know what to associate each with if say one may effect the other and things of that sort

 

[The Matrix]

You just have to know what it means. Most important need to know if it's expressing in your current symptoms or history. Just because you have a gene it my not be expressing. I helped dig up a lot of the snps on the report especially all the mitochondria, thyroid and eye health. Any one who tells they discovered them is full of it. They been there all along. Doubt me email sterling and ask her your self..