Going off TRT - can't afford to see anymore Docs. =(

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    Going off TRT - can't afford to see anymore Docs. =(


    Before I make this post, thanks Matrix for the good advice on my old threads. It really got me thinking about how I don't want to be stuck on TRT for good if it isn't necessary. I was planning on contacting the doc you recommended, but money is really really tight right now (another reason I want to go off TRT).

    A short summary: Original labs were ~600 and my doc put me on TRT for what likely is just a stress/sleep issue. I've been on a very mild protocol for the past ~6 months of 80-100mg Test C/wk, 250 IU HCG 3x/wk, and I just recently added Arimidex at .25 mg 3x/wk for the past month or so. E2 was in the 60 range before the Arimidex and I honestly felt better despite the high levels.

    Anyways, I was just hoping for any advice on a reasonable PCT/Restart protocol given what I currently have left which is:

    - ~5000 IUs of HCG
    - Plenty of Aromasin and Arimidex.

    I know this situation is going to be FAR from optimal and I really wish I had the money to see a legit doc, but ANY advice at all would be greatly appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlosCarlie View Post
    Before I make this post, thanks Matrix for the good advice on my old threads. It really got me thinking about how I don't want to be stuck on TRT for good if it isn't necessary. I was planning on contacting the doc you recommended, but money is really really tight right now (another reason I want to go off TRT).

    A short summary: Original labs were ~600 and my doc put me on TRT for what likely is just a stress/sleep issue. I've been on a very mild protocol for the past ~6 months of 80-100mg Test C/wk, 250 IU HCG 3x/wk, and I just recently added Arimidex at .25 mg 3x/wk for the past month or so. E2 was in the 60 range before the Arimidex and I honestly felt better despite the high levels.

    Anyways, I was just hoping for any advice on a reasonable PCT/Restart protocol given what I currently have left which is:

    - ~5000 IUs of HCG
    - Plenty of Aromasin and Arimidex.

    I know this situation is going to be FAR from optimal and I really wish I had the money to see a legit doc, but ANY advice at all would be greatly appreciated.
    In this cases, If you have stress under control then with proper nutritional support your body has a great chance of coming back on line. I would not screw with anything. Eat good, keep sound mind, get good sleep, and mentally picture your self where you want to be every night. Its amazing what the body can all the proper steps are taken.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    yea what the Matrix said plus 2 caps of Erase every morning and some DAA 3 grams.
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    Every "re-start" protocall I've seen includes clomid.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
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    If he was 600 TT and on his own with in 2 months he should be fine. If not then one can try clomid. Its better just to let your body return to homeostatis not adding any external variables. I would defintely eat lots of green cruciferous veggies, and add 30 mgs of zinc picolate, 400 mgs magnesium glycinate, and 50 mgs of P5P at night time to help support hormone and enzymatic pathways. Adding in this and a few other things has been helping to keep peoples e2 into check. IMO suporting adrenals would be top priority. DAA long term use not known, and not a long term solution. May aggravate e2 as has in alot of people who have used it.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Thanks a lot guys. Should I expect the next month or two to be somewhat ****ty? I only ask because I'm making some serious life changes and would hate to make everything more stressful/hard than it needs to be.
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    Good luck to you
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlosCarlie View Post
    Thanks a lot guys. Should I expect the next month or two to be somewhat ****ty? I only ask because I'm making some serious life changes and would hate to make everything more stressful/hard than it needs to be.
    Being proactive will defintely help you make a smoother transition. Stress is not the problem its how its precieved and how you react vs respond. YOu need to retrain your brain to respond to stress not to react to it. I been working on how to modulate the stress responds before it triggers the CRH which starts the whole cortisol cascade. Finally making some head way. Imagine having reinforced barrier to cope with stress at the cellular level. 6 months in and getting closer each day
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    If he was 600 TT and on his own with in 2 months he should be fine. If not then one can try clomid. Its better just to let your body return to homeostatis not adding any external variables. I would defintely eat lots of green cruciferous veggies, and add 30 mgs of zinc picolate, 400 mgs magnesium glycinate, and 50 mgs of P5P at night time to help support hormone and enzymatic pathways. Adding in this and a few other things has been helping to keep peoples e2 into check. IMO suporting adrenals would be top priority. DAA long term use not known, and not a long term solution. May aggravate e2 as has in alot of people who have used it.
    Suffering from depression, no sex drive, etc is no way to go about getting mentally right in your first two months off. You've gotten way to alternative.
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    its a shame he even started trt with original numbers of 600
    Noob looking for alot of guidance
    I've got a hold of some omnadren 250(is sustanon better?) and I'm pretty much clueless about steroids. All i know about it is that it easily aromatizes and it holds alot of water
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambulldog View Post
    its a shame he even started trt with original numbers of 600
    Very true,
    What done is done and he needs to let his body restabliize on its own the suggestions I made will help him out greatly to keep things as stable as they can be.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Really appreciate the good discussion guys even if everybody doesn't agree.

    It's been a little over a week since my last T shot and I can't be certain but I think I'm starting to feel a difference. Went out w/ a girl I'm talking to last night and erections were still no problem, but I drank what I thought was a non-crazy amount and have one of the worst hangovers I've had in months. No headache, but I was really shaky this morning and anxiety was higher than normal and has been all day. I can't be certain this isn't just a coincidence or in my head, but could this be what I have to look forward to over the next month +?

    Also, I'll readily admit I have a drinking problem and have for years. I don't drink every night, but when I do it's usually 5-6 or even up to 12+ drinks if we go out with friends. I definitely need to cut back, but how does alcohol being in the mix affect things? I'm sure it can't be good, but I'd just like to know what to expect.

    Many thanks again. I know this isn't going to be easy.
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    Addressing the alcohol issue will.help with the depression part as well as possible creating an environment for hormonal.imbalances to ocur from.stopping the hrt.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Charlos............f*ck them......its all about money.....unreal......i hate the bastards.....all doctors......

    ...you can find whatever you need online......teach yourself....ask for info on a ton of sites.......its there bro....

    ..........................char ley
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    Quote Originally Posted by charley View Post
    Charlos............f*ck them......its all about money.....unreal......i hate the bastards.....all doctors......

    ...you can find whatever you need online......teach yourself....ask for info on a ton of sites.......its there bro....

    ..........................char ley
    As for info on tons of site where people have no medical expereince, do not know the whole history of the person, people leave out vital information As many others I have dealt with , people who took this route who had deep and complex issues end up taking 6 -8 months to even get back to some what functioning. There are Dr's out there who actually care, just have to find them.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    ITS ALWAYS THE SAME


    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    As for info on tons of site where people have no medical expereince, do not know the whole history of the person, people leave out vital information As many others I have dealt with , people who took this route who had deep and complex issues end up taking 6 -8 months to even get back to some what functioning. There are Dr's out there who actually care, just have to find them.
    matrix..............its always the same assumptions......that we have money for health care........i quess where your living its all good.....

    i don't ask for goverment help ......f*ck that......i haven't been to a doctor scince i was 14yrs [...i'm 62]....yes..i have a little twin home..

    and a 10 yr old car........and i know i'm better off than many.......and still have zero health ins......alot of us fly by the' seats of our pants'

    in terms of health care..... do our own doctoring......so why don't you consider that.....all this 'doctor visit' stuff is not going to happen......

    ....talk to us sometimes like we're poor folk but still hardcore gym rats...and yes...i know 'some doctors care'..............

    .............................. .............................. ..charley

    .....
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    Charley i donate hours of my week to forums because its.my passion for.helping people. I am also dam good at it. I had the same.view of medical professionals years ago. I know but that bitterness behind me. Now i am working with the sane professionals which almost killed me. When. I am not researching, consulting with other medical professionals i am helping people with their health issues. I saw a post on line on Facebook about my.friends niece who is 4.years old.severely autistic low.income family. My heart goes out.to these special children as this is where my passion and my knowledge is able.to.used.to.its full.capacity. I am.nite donating my time but also several hundred dollars in testing i have available. For me its not about the.money glory or driving nice car, big houses, bragging about going on exotic.trips. Its about giving back.to.less.fortunate to.make.a.difference in a persons life asking nothing in.return. I take.on charity cases once or twice a month which gratification seeing a child who couldd not.speak about 5-7 words as.sentence.speak 10-12. This may be not.much but.to these parents its called hope ..This is why i m in the field and making incredible.head away with drs. Some will try to play the Dr card to through their egos around, but ones i have worked with directly or indirectly know how.valuable i am. When 2 medical based people.get together.more.can be accomplished then some.other people have been dealing with issues for years. Again we are all entitled to our opinion, but.like in the past working against medical system got.me no where. Working with it has open doors to working with some.of the.most.respected people in the field. I could give a crap what other people or other.medical.professionals think about do. All i know the people are i. A better then they where on many levels
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    That's respect ^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasen View Post
    That's respect ^^

    Hey what don't think about triptoperlin right before pct?
    To base using it From one study with no long term studies would not be a good idea. Its a great concept, but have not seen any follow up studying validating it. I would not recommend it until long term studies where conducted (even 6 months follow up).
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Matrix, what you are doing is awesome (especially for Autistic children and families). Who knows maybe you will figure out a cure someday!
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanzdslpwr1 View Post
    Matrix, what you are doing is awesome (especially for Autistic children and families). Who knows maybe you will figure out a cure someday!
    Its not figuring out cure is having parents stop giving their kids tylenol when they have a cold. Its causing major imbalances in the metabolic pathways which detoxifies heavy metals such as mercury from vaccinations. 2 of my friends died of tylenol poisoning from allergic reactions. Since working with more elderly people I am really focusing on the GI tract because when tylenol is consumed with out food its toxic effects are trippled. Now we combined lack of food in elderly on top of taking acteaminophen along with altered GI tract. They just signed their own death sentence. We (USA) consume more acetaminophen in one week then all the world combined. After seeing the seminar on it, it was rather compelling. Amazing why 3 rd world countries have less autism then first world countries? When child was given tylenol even before vaccination they went on to develope autism. Actually, the same prinicples which I apply to people in general are all based from years of research in autism. Every person I deal with I approach as if they where an autistic child (biochemically speaking). Since taking this approach with Dr's, their patient recovery has significantly improved because you are looking at the all the symptoms and identifying external variables which may be effecting them. With this little 4 year old girl, I know she will make major progression. The biggest issue is going to be compliance from both parents and more so the child. By dealing with low income family it makes it a challenge to get all the special food they need, If her brother can raise $5,000 that will give me enough testing to do to get the information I need to really make progress with her...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    if tylenol is so bad for young children then what do you recommend when a young child has a high fever?
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    Ok, so I'm pretty sure it's not entirely in my head at this point. I'm definitely feeling a little down now. Energy levels are ok at some points during the day but I can't sustain it and I occasionally get this hopeless feeling that I'm never going to get my **** together. Sleep has actually been much much better, BUT I find it harder to get up and going in the morning despite this.

    W/ that being said, I want to stick with this. I forced myself to hit the gym tonight and feel much, much better. Other than diet, supplements, and exercise...is there anything else I can do? I'm limiting myself to a beer or two a day which is going to be hard on the weekends, but I want to get back to feeling good again ASAP.

    Thanks again for all the good advice/support guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanzdslpwr1 View Post
    if tylenol is so bad for young children then what do you recommend when a young child has a high fever?
    Fever is natural response to an infection why you would want to stop it? Let nature run its course. If fever gets to 106 then seek medical attention
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlosCarlie View Post
    Ok, so I'm pretty sure it's not entirely in my head at this point. I'm definitely feeling a little down now. Energy levels are ok at some points during the day but I can't sustain it and I occasionally get this hopeless feeling that I'm never going to get my **** together. Sleep has actually been much much better, BUT I find it harder to get up and going in the morning despite this.

    W/ that being said, I want to stick with this. I forced myself to hit the gym tonight and feel much, much better. Other than diet, supplements, and exercise...is there anything else I can do? I'm limiting myself to a beer or two a day which is going to be hard on the weekends, but I want to get back to feeling good again ASAP.

    Thanks again for all the good advice/support guys.
    Address the problem at the root seek Support group for alcoholism. Alcohol on top of any kind of dysbiosis will kill your GI tract causing a whole cascade of issues. This why detailed investigation is crucial to cases so little details like hidden addictions are looked into. I use an alcohol recovery program with people to help balance out their biological and neurological chemistry..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Charlos - good luck

    How long were you ON TRT?
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    Well, I've been sorta on again/off again for a year now, but at first it was with creams which I didn't think did anything. I went off TRT for 3-4 months, then tried injections and have been on those for I'd say ~6 months now. We started out w/ 120mg total per week and my test was in the 1000 range and E2 was ~60 so we backed off to 80mg. I've been on that for about two months now and only recently have added an AI which has really been ****ing w/ how I feel. I honestly felt better with high E2. Normal?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlosCarlie View Post
    Before I make this post, thanks Matrix for the good advice on my old threads. It really got me thinking about how I don't want to be stuck on TRT for good if it isn't necessary. I was planning on contacting the doc you recommended, but money is really really tight right now (another reason I want to go off TRT).

    A short summary: Original labs were ~600 and my doc put me on TRT for what likely is just a stress/sleep issue. I've been on a very mild protocol for the past ~6 months of 80-100mg Test C/wk, 250 IU HCG 3x/wk, and I just recently added Arimidex at .25 mg 3x/wk for the past month or so. E2 was in the 60 range before the Arimidex and I honestly felt better despite the high levels.

    Anyways, I was just hoping for any advice on a reasonable PCT/Restart protocol given what I currently have left which is:

    - ~5000 IUs of HCG
    - Plenty of Aromasin and Arimidex.

    I know this situation is going to be FAR from optimal and I really wish I had the money to see a legit doc, but ANY advice at all would be greatly appreciated.
    if your on HRT/TRT because you have natty low levels then your kinda of stuck with ethe rHRT/TRT or having low T levels and slowly having your health deteriate before you along with mental issues like depression etc.

    If you cant afford to see the TRT doc then get your own test and that alone will save you 90% of costs. (100-200mg ew) and go in for a blood test 3-4 times a year to check levels and go from there.
    unless covered I dont ever see myself paying for my endo and TRT compounds from pharmacy, thay are abusing use witht he prices when it should not cost more then 10-20$ MAX for 100mg of test. not 200-400$
    its just no right.
    look into omnadren250 or noma teste, there found fairly cheap if you know your stuff and there pharm grade.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Fever is natural response to an infection why you would want to stop it? Let nature run its course. If fever gets to 106 then seek medical attention
    EXACLY!! I dont F-ing understand these people giving and taking them selv's tylonal for fever and other flue/cold simptoms.
    TYLONAL IS LIVER TOXIC AND BAD FOR YOU!
    read up on it and howmany people die EVERY year from using Tylonal. and im nt talkign junkies im talkign normal people.

    a fever isa natural responce to HELP KILL THE INFECTION!!
    popping this pill is NOT goign to help you nore kill off anything, they tell you that so yYOU feel liek ou got some kind of edvice and YOU bug them less about it.
    the only time you want to stop it is when it gets soo high it may cause brain damage or organs to shut down. and i assure you its not tylonal they will be giving them lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Very true,
    What done is done and he needs to let his body restabliize on its own the suggestions I made will help him out greatly to keep things as stable as they can be.
    whoa i missed this. this is not super low, 200 may below. but if your free T levels are somewhat normal and the rest is at 600 , Im not sure why the doc put you on it.
    or am i missing somthing?
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    I do a ton of research into autism which I then apply to the general population increasing the positive out come significantly. There are several cases of children developing autism before vacinations where ever administered. Amazing fact is these childern consumed large amounts of children's tylenol. How about that one. Why do you think I know the gut and liver pathways and detoxification so detailed. Its from studying biochemistry and neurology of autism for the past 7 years. Understanding autism will lead medical professionals to a whole new world of treating their patients. Funniest part is when I get a new case or client, I evaluate them from an autistic stand point which allows for greater exploration getting to the root cause of the issue instead looking at the symptoms. I can be a dr's best friend or an insecure Dr's worst nightmare.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blergs View Post
    EXACLY!! I dont F-ing understand these people giving and taking them selv's tylonal for fever and other flue/cold simptoms.
    TYLONAL IS LIVER TOXIC AND BAD FOR YOU!
    read up on it and howmany people die EVERY year from using Tylonal. and im nt talkign junkies im talkign normal people.

    a fever isa natural responce to HELP KILL THE INFECTION!!
    popping this pill is NOT goign to help you nore kill off anything, they tell you that so yYOU feel liek ou got some kind of edvice and YOU bug them less about it.
    the only time you want to stop it is when it gets soo high it may cause brain damage or organs to shut down. and i assure you its not tylonal they will be giving them lol.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  37. Registered User
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    Minor update:

    I did cheat almost exactly two weeks ago and injected 50mg of T. Other than that, I've stayed away from everything else. Had a couple of bad binge drinking nights that really had me feeling like ****, but I feel relatively decent now. I'm sleeping a little better (harder to get out of bed though), energy levels are a little lower, and anxiety is a little higher. Sex drive seems lower but not having any problems getting erections so far *knocks on wood* (ha ha).

    I am now supplementing P5P, Zing, Magnesium, Niacin, and Vitamin D. Seems to help but obv could be just in my head. When would you guys wait to test my blood levels? Should I still expect to start feeling worse as the weeks go on since I did semi-cheat a couple weeks ago?
  38. Registered User
    The Matrix's Avatar
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    You listed one of my stables It works incredible well too..

    Quote Originally Posted by CharlosCarlie View Post
    Minor update:

    I did cheat almost exactly two weeks ago and injected 50mg of T. Other than that, I've stayed away from everything else. Had a couple of bad binge drinking nights that really had me feeling like ****, but I feel relatively decent now. I'm sleeping a little better (harder to get out of bed though), energy levels are a little lower, and anxiety is a little higher. Sex drive seems lower but not having any problems getting erections so far *knocks on wood* (ha ha).

    I am now supplementing P5P, Zing, Magnesium, Niacin, and Vitamin D. Seems to help but obv could be just in my head. When would you guys wait to test my blood levels? Should I still expect to start feeling worse as the weeks go on since I did semi-cheat a couple weeks ago?
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  39. Registered User
    CharlosCarlie's Avatar
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    Moving to Canada tomorrow so obviously been under quite a bit more stress than usual. I'm handling things relatively well but I still am having occasional bouts of depression-like symptoms. It's bearable though and I at least know the reason for it.

    One surprising positive change: Morning erections (actually erections/orgasms in general) have been much better which seems really odd. Does this mean T levels are likely within at least the "normal" range? It's been almost 3 weeks since my last injection now.
  40. Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlosCarlie View Post
    Moving to Canada tomorrow so obviously been under quite a bit more stress than usual. I'm handling things relatively well but I still am having occasional bouts of depression-like symptoms. It's bearable though and I at least know the reason for it.

    One surprising positive change: Morning erections (actually erections/orgasms in general) have been much better which seems really odd. Does this mean T levels are likely within at least the "normal" range? It's been almost 3 weeks since my last injection now.
    Up vitamin D may be suggested..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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