anyone doing bhrt? - AnabolicMinds.com

anyone doing bhrt?

  1. ohiostate2827's Avatar
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    anyone doing bhrt?


    Bioidentical hormone replacement therapy (BHRT) i started on the 13th of Aug..got away from TRT with injections...im on test combined with progesterone..they started me out with .05mg that i rub on twice per day..anyone have any experience with BHRT pros-cons?

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    how is TRT NOT BHRT?
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    I believe... it's to do with the chemical makeup.

    BioIdentical hormones are usually extracted from plants and are meant to be an exact chemical match to our own bodies hormones.

    Testosterone Enanthate etc etc do not match "exactly"....

    Again this is just my synopsis from what I've read, could be wrong but I'm new to all this researching so take it from one of the other more experienced guys.

    I have read varying responses to the success with BHRT, that could depend on the company and compound though.
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    BTW... Ohiostate, why did you move away from traditional TRT?
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    If 100-200mg of Test C didn't work. .05mg of Bioidentical Test probably won't do much either. Most bHRT docs resort to injections after the bHRT cream doesn't work. It's hit or miss really. Some like it and feel better. Others, not so much.
    ~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by getalpha View Post
    BTW... Ohiostate, why did you move away from traditional TRT?
    i wanted to try a more natural approach..and also all the diff docs i have seen over the years, i felt like i was teaching them about hormones..These docs that are treating me now seem to really know their stuff..
  7. ohiostate2827's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prld2gr8ns View Post
    If 100-200mg of Test C didn't work. .05mg of Bioidentical Test probably won't do much either. Most bHRT docs resort to injections after the bHRT cream doesn't work. It's hit or miss really. Some like it and feel better. Others, not so much.
    100mg of Test C was working...05mg of Bioidentical doesnt seem to be working as quick, but they gave me a low dose to see how i respond. im taking 1mg all together a day..im getting tested again next month..so we'll see
  8. v4lu3s's Avatar
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    If the hormone you are taking is not identical to testosterone its not testosterone. it doesnt matter if you call it bioidentical, or anything like that. There is only one structure that is called testosterone, and it functions the exact same whether you call it bioidentical or synthetic.

    As far as the esther all that does is delay the release of the hormone into your blood stream. it does not change the chemical function of the testosterone once it is free in your body.

    Most of what I have read about bhrt deals with women, and the fact that there are dozens of hormone therapies based around various symthetic estrogens and progestins, like birth control pills etc. but with men....i do not see them talking about using 1-test, dht, nandralone, or boldenone as HRT....its always testosterone.
  9. ohiostate2827's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v4lu3s View Post
    If the hormone you are taking is not identical to testosterone its not testosterone. it doesnt matter if you call it bioidentical, or anything like that. There is only one structure that is called testosterone, and it functions the exact same whether you call it bioidentical or synthetic.

    As far as the esther all that does is delay the release of the hormone into your blood stream. it does not change the chemical function of the testosterone once it is free in your body.


    Most of what I have read about bhrt deals with women, and the fact that there are dozens of hormone therapies based around various symthetic estrogens and progestins, like birth control pills etc. but with men....i do not see them talking about using 1-test, dht, nandralone, or boldenone as HRT....its always testosterone.
    the hormones im taking are identical to test and progesterone..Their are alot of men who get this treatment i just cant find any feedback online..The doc im seeing wanted to put me on a bioidentical HGH,after we see how im responding after 2 months at 1mg..BHRT have all the hormones that a male needs not just for women even though it sounds like its more for women..When i went to get my Rx their were about dozen or so guys getting their meds..all ages
  10. The Matrix's Avatar
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    So what is the compenents of the BHRT creame. BHRT is a misleading term. They use the ingredients people on HRT uses. You probably and many others are mislead by the terminology used by some practioners. I see a lot of red flags. If you were going the natural route then find out why your hormones are out in the first place and what other imbalances are in your different systems. When digging you will be surprise what you find as the core source of why you are having issues.
  11. ohiostate2827's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    So what is the compenents of the BHRT creame. BHRT is a misleading term. They use the ingredients people on HRT uses. You probably and many others are mislead by the terminology used by some practioners. I see a lot of red flags. If you were going the natural route then find out why your hormones are out in the first place and what other imbalances are in your different systems. When digging you will be surprise what you find as the core source of why you are having issues.
    the core to my hormone issues i believe are from taking anti anxiety med paxil from when i was 19yrs to 27yrs old..couldnt get off the stuff..had all kinds of issues and havent felt right since..think altered my brain chems for the neg..from what it kinda sounded like to me when i asked where do they get their test from..he made it sound like they get it from dead bodies..im due for a refill here in a couple days..ill ask again and see if they say the same thing again
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiostate2827 View Post
    the core to my hormone issues i believe are from taking anti anxiety med paxil from when i was 19yrs to 27yrs old..couldnt get off the stuff..had all kinds of issues and havent felt right since..think altered my brain chems for the neg..from what it kinda sounded like to me when i asked where do they get their test from..he made it sound like they get it from dead bodies..im due for a refill here in a couple days..ill ask again and see if they say the same thing again
    The compounding pharmacists I have worked with usually state that it is synthesized from yams. That's the general definition of the bioidentical category, natural.
    ~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!


  13. v4lu3s's Avatar
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    Your body cannot differentiate between hormones synthesized from yams or soy like 17 beta-estradiol, estrone, and estriol or even testosterone, though they are all synthesized in processes that are hardly natural. All they are doing is selling a line that it is more "natural" though that is up to interpretation.
  14. The Matrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v4lu3s View Post
    Your body cannot differentiate between hormones synthesized from yams or soy like 17 beta-estradiol, estrone, and estriol or even testosterone, though they are all synthesized in processes that are hardly natural. All they are doing is selling a line that it is more "natural" though that is up to interpretation.
    BHMT is a misleading term and they use the same ingredients HRT Dr's use. It's actually false advertising IMO.
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    I just finished my follow-up appointment with my doc. I'm waiting for her to get back to me on a nutrition plan I am having her create as well as what she is planning on prescribing me. She said she wants to prescribe me hCG and IGF-1, but the IGF-1 was my suggestion. I wanted her to give me hgh or test, but she says she has to follow "protocols." Sheeeesh
  16. The Matrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoMoJo View Post
    I just finished my follow-up appointment with my doc. I'm waiting for her to get back to me on a nutrition plan I am having her create as well as what she is planning on prescribing me. She said she wants to prescribe me hCG and IGF-1, but the IGF-1 was my suggestion. I wanted her to give me hgh or test, but she says she has to follow "protocols." Sheeeesh
    This is screaming major scam and just wanting your money.
    One can raise igf-1 with out drugs. giving you igf-1 is not medically appropriate. Sounds like she's a human script pad.
    Going to a BHMT dr then wanting to do it naturally sounds a little hippocritical IMO.
    By identifying the imbalances in the body can help modulate a lot of factors you may be dealing with.
  17. YoMoJo's Avatar
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    I guess she is an Osteopath Doctor who practices internal medicine she says. I first saw her for a nutritional evaluation. I have a lot of ongoing anxiety and stress from school so I wanted to see what could be contributing to my stress other than school. The nutritional evaluation suggested some nutritional areas where I was deficit in and likewise suggestions of what nutrients I can take to bring those deficits back to balance (I'd have to look at the report to list the deficits if anyone is curious to know). While waiting for my report, I saw this documentary called, "Bigger, Stronger, Faster," by director Chris Bell and that movie gave me the idea to get my hormones checked out regarding my stress/anxiety. So I set up an appointment to see her for hormone testing and in the meantime while I was waiting for my appointment, I did some research on Bio-Identical Hormone Therapy in which I found very interesting as I read different posts by people on different forums like this one, which is why I ended up joining this one. I enjoy bodybuilding and martial arts and never really thought enough to think differently about steroids and hormones and the difference between "safe use and abuse", as which is the message that I got from "Bigger, Stronger, Faster." Now I do think differently about them certainly being in favor of them and I'm now awaiting for my doc to get back to me on here decision of what she wants to prescribe me.

    What happened was that because I had been taking Advanced Muscle Science's 1Andro, 4AD, and Decavol and stopped just 3 1/2 weeks before I took the Salivary test, my test results came back high for testosterone, which was 847 in the morning, 836 at noon, 356 in the afternoon, and 722 at midnight. My cortisol and dhea was high also. So she said she had to call someone at Genova and talk to them to see if the reason why my testosterone was so high because of the andro I was taking or something else. I am finishing the andro, now that the testing is over. So that is why I am waiting for her to email me back regarding what she wants to prescribe me. I wish she was a script pad because I really see a lot of benefit from hgh, igf-1, and test, at a safe dosage of course. I've had three appointments now with her with the first being for the consultation for the nutritional evaluation, second for the consultation for the hormones, and then the appointment for the results for the hormonal testing. I gave a good argument as to why I think hgh, igf-1, and hcg would be the best for me, but she said she didn't work like that and that she had protocols she had to follow. In an email to her where I asked about some ideas I've read online, she wrote me back sounding like she was pretty pissed that I would question her judgement as a doctor.

    My doc is fair price wise I think. For the first appointment she charged me $150, but now for every follow-up appointment it just costs me $50. The testing wasn't even that expensive. She has searched for a testing lab thats the least expensive and that is of decent quality and she came up with Genova Diagnostics. I only have to pay $170 out of pocket and the rest is charged to my insurance for the two tests that I have done so far. The only thing is that the nutritional evaluation took about 28 days to get back and the hormone evaluation which was a salivary test, took just 8 days. For $50, she spent a little under 2 hours with me in her office answering every question I had that I was able to come up with, which I got while reading forums and articles online.
  18. RPHMark's Avatar
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    The essence of BHRT is "replace what is missing". It is really more relevent in women's HRT because of the mulititude of synthetic options (synthetic in the sense that they do not exist in the body, not referring to how they are made). Some practitioners don't view the ester injections as BHRT but most do because the ester does not affect the action of the testosterone, just the speed of absorbtion. However drugs like methyl-testosterone or anabolics would obviously not be considered BHRT.
  19. The Matrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoMoJo View Post
    I guess she is an Osteopath Doctor who practices internal medicine she says. I first saw her for a nutritional evaluation. I have a lot of ongoing anxiety and stress from school so I wanted to see what could be contributing to my stress other than school. The nutritional evaluation suggested some nutritional areas where I was deficit in and likewise suggestions of what nutrients I can take to bring those deficits back to balance (I'd have to look at the report to list the deficits if anyone is curious to know). While waiting for my report, I saw this documentary called, "Bigger, Stronger, Faster," by director Chris Bell and that movie gave me the idea to get my hormones checked out regarding my stress/anxiety. So I set up an appointment to see her for hormone testing and in the meantime while I was waiting for my appointment, I did some research on Bio-Identical Hormone Therapy in which I found very interesting as I read different posts by people on different forums like this one, which is why I ended up joining this one. I enjoy bodybuilding and martial arts and never really thought enough to think differently about steroids and hormones and the difference between "safe use and abuse", as which is the message that I got from "Bigger, Stronger, Faster." Now I do think differently about them certainly being in favor of them and I'm now awaiting for my doc to get back to me on here decision of what she wants to prescribe me.

    What happened was that because I had been taking Advanced Muscle Science's 1Andro, 4AD, and Decavol and stopped just 3 1/2 weeks before I took the Salivary test, my test results came back high for testosterone, which was 847 in the morning, 836 at noon, 356 in the afternoon, and 722 at midnight. My cortisol and dhea was high also. So she said she had to call someone at Genova and talk to them to see if the reason why my testosterone was so high because of the andro I was taking or something else. I am finishing the andro, now that the testing is over. So that is why I am waiting for her to email me back regarding what she wants to prescribe me. I wish she was a script pad because I really see a lot of benefit from hgh, igf-1, and test, at a safe dosage of course. I've had three appointments now with her with the first being for the consultation for the nutritional evaluation, second for the consultation for the hormones, and then the appointment for the results for the hormonal testing. I gave a good argument as to why I think hgh, igf-1, and hcg would be the best for me, but she said she didn't work like that and that she had protocols she had to follow. In an email to her where I asked about some ideas I've read online, she wrote me back sounding like she was pretty pissed that I would question her judgement as a doctor.

    My doc is fair price wise I think. For the first appointment she charged me $150, but now for every follow-up appointment it just costs me $50. The testing wasn't even that expensive. She has searched for a testing lab thats the least expensive and that is of decent quality and she came up with Genova Diagnostics. I only have to pay $170 out of pocket and the rest is charged to my insurance for the two tests that I have done so far. The only thing is that the nutritional evaluation took about 28 days to get back and the hormone evaluation which was a salivary test, took just 8 days. For $50, she spent a little under 2 hours with me in her office answering every question I had that I was able to come up with, which I got while reading forums and articles online.
    I have done several hundreds of nutre evals and most dr's miss half of the hidden details. Its great she is affordable. Many people from other dr's have me evaluate their nutra evals along with other information. When proper evaluated there is a lot of hidden information and ratios which is critical to the person's case. Anxiety I would be focusing on your GI tract and liver where imbalances can cause major chain of events in the body. If I get stuck on specific cases I can always resort to Dr's who are well respected experts in many diverse fields.
  20. ohiostate2827's Avatar
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    it would suck if bhrt isnt as natural as i thought it was..might as well stayed on regular trt then..
  21. YoMoJo's Avatar
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    if you have any free time, would it be possible for you to evaluate my nut*****? It would be great if someone could shed some light on it as my doc hasn't completely done so yet.
  22. The Matrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoMoJo View Post
    if you have any free time, would it be possible for you to evaluate my nut*****? It would be great if someone could shed some light on it as my doc hasn't completely done so yet.
    PM me.
    I will look at it give you a brief over view, but will not go into full detail with out knowing all the proper information.
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    How is test, not test?

    Kinda like saying "organic, natural H20".. H20 is H20, just like test is test
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    How is test, not test?

    Kinda like saying "organic, natural H20".. H20 is H20, just like test is test
    Your hormones carry your specific DNA...
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    I don't understand the concept of BHRT. I guess as far as I knew, a testosterone molecule is the same no matter the source. Basically - C19 H28 O2

    So Dr's are taking samples of people's natural testosterone, looking into specific DNA in it, and then creating new DNA for the supplemental T, which is then created just specifically for that individual? So in essence, it's genetically engineered / cloned from a sample?
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  26. The Matrix's Avatar
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    No what I am saying is that people on clomid do not need 900 T to feel good like people on HRT
    I have found to be a 200-300 point difference in HCG, clomid (endogenous) vs HRT (exogenous)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I don't understand the concept of BHRT. I guess as far as I knew, a testosterone molecule is the same no matter the source. Basically - C19 H28 O2

    So Dr's are taking samples of people's natural testosterone, looking into specific DNA in it, and then creating new DNA for the supplemental T, which is then created just specifically for that individual? So in essence, it's genetically engineered / cloned from a sample?
    sure but some of it is the question of whether you consider testosterone cypionate to be bioidentical or not. In my view its not, as its not identical from the pharmokinetics standpoint. Sadly, there isn't a standard definition of what is bhrt, for womens bhrt esterified versions are often used but called bhrt.
    This space for rent

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    if an esther is enough to not make it "bio identical" then I would think that any other delivery medium, like gels or creams would make it just as un "natural." if you go with the hormone only then it sounds like test suspension is the only stuff that would meet the definition....
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    Quote Originally Posted by v4lu3s View Post
    if an esther is enough to not make it "bio identical" then I would think that any other delivery medium, like gels or creams would make it just as un "natural." if you go with the hormone only then it sounds like test suspension is the only stuff that would meet the definition....
    actually a cream may have a closer release pattern than suspension, as your body does create testosterone through the day.
    This space for rent

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    Quote Originally Posted by v4lu3s View Post
    Your body cannot differentiate between hormones synthesized from yams or soy like 17 beta-estradiol, estrone, and estriol or even testosterone, though they are all synthesized in processes that are hardly natural. All they are doing is selling a line that it is more "natural" though that is up to interpretation.
    This

    Quote Originally Posted by RPHMark View Post
    It is really more relevent in women's HRT because of the mulititude of synthetic options (synthetic in the sense that they do not exist in the body, not referring to how they are made).
    Plus this

    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I don't understand the concept of BHRT. I guess as far as I knew, a testosterone molecule is the same no matter the source. Basically - C19 H28 O2
    I believe this is simply a name recognition game Gutterpump. The term bioidentical hormone replacement came from women's hormone replacement if I'm not mistaken. It was to differentiate between the new hormone replacement using mexican yams to make a bioidentical estrogen and progesterone hormone compared to the old hormone replacement where estrogen and progesterone came from horses and eventually causes cancers in many women.
    Premarin even got its name from the fact that it comes from a mare.

    Now they are fooling men into thinking there is a superior form of TRT.
    DragonRider is a fictional character and does not promote the use of anabolic steroids without a doctor's prescription. The information I share is my opinion based upon my personal experiences only and should not be construed as medical advice.
  31. DragonRider's Avatar
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    This is the warning that comes with prescription Premarin.

    Warning
    Estrogen increases the risk that you will develop endometrial cancer (cancer of the lining of the uterus [womb]). The longer you use estrogen, the greater the risk that you will develop endometrial cancer. If you have not had a hysterectomy (surgery to remove the uterus), you may be given another medication called a progestin to take with vaginal estrogen. This may decrease your risk of developing endometrial cancer, but may increase your risk of developing certain other health problems, including breast cancer. Before you begin using vaginal estrogen, tell your doctor if you have or have ever had cancer and if you have unusual vaginal bleeding. Call your doctor immediately if you have abnormal or unusual vaginal bleeding during your treatment with vaginal estrogen. Your doctor will watch you closely to help ensure you do not develop endometrial cancer during or after your treatment.

    In a large study, women who took estrogen with progestins by mouth had a higher risk of heart attacks, strokes, blood clots in the lungs or legs, breast cancer, and dementia (loss of ability to think, learn, and understand). Women who use vaginal estrogen alone or with progestins may also have a higher risk of developing these conditions. Tell your doctor if you smoke or use tobacco, if you have had a heart attack or a stroke in the past year, and if you or anyone in your family has or has ever had blood clots or breast cancer. Also tell your doctor if you have or have ever had high blood pressure, high blood levels of cholesterol or fats, diabetes, heart disease, lupus (a condition in which the body attacks its own tissues causing damage and swelling), breast lumps, or an abnormal mammogram (x-ray of the breasts used to find breast cancer).







    The advantage of bioidentical hormone replacement for women is that they are natural hormones, not equestrian (horse) and they are transdermal not oral.

    As v4lu3s and Gutterpump alluded, testosterone is testosterone.
    DragonRider is a fictional character and does not promote the use of anabolic steroids without a doctor's prescription. The information I share is my opinion based upon my personal experiences only and should not be construed as medical advice.
  32. ohiostate2827's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonRider View Post
    This



    Plus this



    I believe this is simply a name recognition game Gutterpump. The term bioidentical hormone replacement came from women's hormone replacement if I'm not mistaken. It was to differentiate between the new hormone replacement using mexican yams to make a bioidentical estrogen and progesterone hormone compared to the old hormone replacement where estrogen and progesterone came from horses and eventually causes cancers in many women.
    Premarin even got its name from the fact that it comes from a mare.

    Now they are fooling men into thinking there is a superior form of TRT.
    i dont feel as if they are coming across superior..or as least the ppl i deal with...it is easier for me to put a cream on than take a shot in the ass twice a week...ill try bhrt for awhile if number dont improve guess ill have to go back to trt...so far im maintaining everything
  33. DragonRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiostate2827 View Post
    i dont feel as if they are coming across superior..or as least the ppl i deal with...it is easier for me to put a cream on than take a shot in the ass twice a week...ill try bhrt for awhile if number dont improve guess ill have to go back to trt...so far im maintaining everything
    You misinterpreted what I said. I'm not saying they are coming across as superior. I am saying that they infer that bioidentical testosterone replacement is superior to other forms because it is natural. However, if you read my post you would see the true definition of bioidentical hormone replacement can only be applied to females. Men have never received their testosterone from horses or any other animal.
    Your sentance says if numbers don't improve you will go back to TRT. Since you are already on TRT, I will assume that you mean traditional methods of TRT. However, traditional TRT is not limited to injectable testosterone. Traditional TRT uses patches, transdermal gels, pellets, injectable testosterone, compounding pharmacies and oral swabs.

    Just for information purposes only, many men on injectable testosterone do SubQ injections with an insulin needle. We don't want to do IM shots in the glutes twice a week either.
    DragonRider is a fictional character and does not promote the use of anabolic steroids without a doctor's prescription. The information I share is my opinion based upon my personal experiences only and should not be construed as medical advice.
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    Premarin is not just estrogen though, which is why it is not considered bioidentical. it is made up of estrogen, plus two other estrogenic substances,equilenin and equilin. Many of the other hormones used in womens treatments are like that, they do not naturally occur in the human female body but have actions that medical science wants.
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    Quote Originally Posted by v4lu3s View Post
    Premarin is not just estrogen though, which is why it is not considered bioidentical. it is made up of estrogen, plus two other estrogenic substances,equilenin and equilin. Many of the other hormones used in womens treatments are like that, they do not naturally occur in the human female body but have actions that medical science wants.
    Yes I'm aware. Did you notice the root of the 2 other substances? Equi= horse. That's what makes it non bioidentical. Horse estrogens and progesterones are not identical to human. The hormone made from yams is an exact copy.
    DragonRider is a fictional character and does not promote the use of anabolic steroids without a doctor's prescription. The information I share is my opinion based upon my personal experiences only and should not be construed as medical advice.
  36. The Matrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonRider View Post
    Yes I'm aware. Did you notice the root of the 2 other substances? Equi= horse. That's what makes it non bioidentical. Horse estrogens and progesterones are not identical to human. The hormone made from yams is an exact copy.
    Premarin- How they get the drug is they strap down a horse while they shove a tube up it to draw its urine. If you break the wording down "pre" and "mare" It means exactly what it saids. "Before a horse"
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Premarin- How they get the drug is they strap down a horse while they shove a tube up it to draw its urine. If you break the wording down "pre" and "mare" It means exactly what it saids. "Before a horse"
    No it doesn't. It stands for Pregnant Mares' Urine

    There you go making stuff up again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonRider View Post

    Now they are fooling men into thinking there is a superior form of TRT.
    That's what I thought.. a bunch of mumbo jumbo I think test is still test in the eyes of the androgen receptor

    REAL bHRT would be more like HCG monotherapy for secondary patients.
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  39. The Matrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProfBush View Post
    No it doesn't. It stands for Pregnant Mares' Urine

    There you go making stuff up again.
    Making stuff up again. It means the same damn thing..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  

  
 

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