need4speed
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TRT effects on your strength
Gutterpump
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Diet and training will give you the most strength gains, TRT will only aid the process of recovery where it comes to gains. It definitely makes gaining strength easier, but it's no magic pill, still have to put in the work and dedication.
The simple answer is yes test will help you gain strength faster if you're living with low test levels
The simple answer is yes test will help you gain strength faster if you're living with low test levels
need4speed
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My latest testosterone results were 405ng/dl and SHBG was 39. My doctor said that is fine.
Gutterpump
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It's not clinically low, and at your age, I would look into factors which could be causing it to dip down like this.
Find out the cause first, then try to fix... Don't go looking for TRT at your age unless you've exhausted all other measures. I spent 2 years consulting and trying everything first.
Diet and lifestyle choices are #1. Have you had previous steroid use?
Find out the cause first, then try to fix... Don't go looking for TRT at your age unless you've exhausted all other measures. I spent 2 years consulting and trying everything first.
Diet and lifestyle choices are #1. Have you had previous steroid use?
The Matrix
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You are not fine with those numbers as your bio T is in the crapper. If you had shbg of 20 then I'd say something different. I would also look at e2 levels since it can raise shbg. Currently what symptoms are you having?
need4speed
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I call my doctor to get my BAT result.
BioAvai Testosterone 155.9 ( 110 - 575 )
Is this good MATRIX, would i need TRT?
he told me my thyroid is good, cbc, were good too.
he didnt test Estrogens.
My doctor told me all my labs are good and they wouldnt cause the symptoms i'm having.
I never did roids. I believe my diet is very good.
I feel weak, many days to recovery, poor memory, erectile dysfunction, depression.
Matrix I'm located in Maryland, i PMED you a long time ago but you never replied about setting something up.
BioAvai Testosterone 155.9 ( 110 - 575 )
Is this good MATRIX, would i need TRT?
he told me my thyroid is good, cbc, were good too.
he didnt test Estrogens.
My doctor told me all my labs are good and they wouldnt cause the symptoms i'm having.
I never did roids. I believe my diet is very good.
I feel weak, many days to recovery, poor memory, erectile dysfunction, depression.
Matrix I'm located in Maryland, i PMED you a long time ago but you never replied about setting something up.
pmgamer18
Well-known member
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If you have ED problems and no Rem Sleep wood wood check your Estradiol levels if high this will make SHBG go up and this will bind up your Bio and Free T so it's not working. If your Estraaidol is high over 30 pg/ml getting this down can add up to 300 points to your TT levels and bring down your SHBG so your T is freed up.
Men not on TRT can get high levels of Estradiol down using Indolplex/DIM
========================================================================================
ALL ABOUT DIM.
Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose not get killed in your stomach when you take it.
Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men.
http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm
in this link it's full of links about it.
http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html
http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full
If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps to keep it from getting killed in your stomach.
The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM.
http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html
http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchtext-dim
http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0
How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2 weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s all about how high you are in your levels. What you need to do is get
this down to about 20 pg/ml. When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200 to 300 points.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174
Here is a cut and paste why Dr. John feels we need to take TMG with DIM.
I have seen several studies which showed that while DIM improves the 2-OHE/16-a-OHE ratio, it also increases the bad 4-OHE. TMG, or its child DMG (although TMG is much better because it has already donated a valuable methyl group by the time it becomes DMG) will help flush the 4-OHE downstream.
Taking TMG/DMG is important on its own, even in absence of DIM supplementation. But I would not take DIM without it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following is what Dr. Marianco says about lowing E2 with DIM and other things.
My interpretation of the above articles is that:
1. DIM blocks DHT from binding to androgen-receptors in the Prostate. This is a good thing - it reduces the risk of prostate cancer from testosterone replacement therapy.
2. DIM does not stop the production of DHT. For DIM to do so, it has to inhibit the reductase enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. The articles do not indicate that this is occurring.
In regard to how DIM works, it blocks certain Cytochrome P450 enzymes in the liver which convert Estrogens to more proliferative, cancerous types of estrogens. This forces the liver to use other pathways, which convert estrogens to non-proliferative, safer, and less potent estrogens. Thus, overall estrogen activity is reduced by DIM.
Arimidex blocks the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogens, thus lowering the production of estrogens and thus lowering estrogen activity. There are other substances which also block the aromatase enzyme - including 6-OXO (an over-the-counter supplement), Aromasin, etc..
Which do you want to use? Either choice is valid. It will depend on the individual's response, how easy it is to control estrogen activity, cost, etc.
Other factors:
1. Arimidex is by prescription and is very expensive.
2. 6-OXO is over-the-counter, but dosing guidelines are not clear.
3. DIM is over-the-counter, is relatively expensive for what you get. There are pitfalls - such as "DIM-complex" - which water down the DIM concentration by adding additives.
4. Broccoli and I3C - both precursors to DIM can be used. But they require you to avoid antacids, needing acidity in the stomach to break them down and create DIM.
In any case, you will have to monitor your estrogen levels via blood testing to determine how much of each you want to use.
__________________
Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and will change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not constitute medical advice, does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you would like medical advice, please ask your doctor. Thank you.
Men not on TRT can get high levels of Estradiol down using Indolplex/DIM
========================================================================================
ALL ABOUT DIM.
Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose not get killed in your stomach when you take it.
Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men.
http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm
in this link it's full of links about it.
http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html
http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full
If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps to keep it from getting killed in your stomach.
The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM.
http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html
http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchtext-dim
http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0
How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2 weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s all about how high you are in your levels. What you need to do is get
this down to about 20 pg/ml. When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200 to 300 points.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174
Here is a cut and paste why Dr. John feels we need to take TMG with DIM.
I have seen several studies which showed that while DIM improves the 2-OHE/16-a-OHE ratio, it also increases the bad 4-OHE. TMG, or its child DMG (although TMG is much better because it has already donated a valuable methyl group by the time it becomes DMG) will help flush the 4-OHE downstream.
Taking TMG/DMG is important on its own, even in absence of DIM supplementation. But I would not take DIM without it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following is what Dr. Marianco says about lowing E2 with DIM and other things.
My interpretation of the above articles is that:
1. DIM blocks DHT from binding to androgen-receptors in the Prostate. This is a good thing - it reduces the risk of prostate cancer from testosterone replacement therapy.
2. DIM does not stop the production of DHT. For DIM to do so, it has to inhibit the reductase enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. The articles do not indicate that this is occurring.
In regard to how DIM works, it blocks certain Cytochrome P450 enzymes in the liver which convert Estrogens to more proliferative, cancerous types of estrogens. This forces the liver to use other pathways, which convert estrogens to non-proliferative, safer, and less potent estrogens. Thus, overall estrogen activity is reduced by DIM.
Arimidex blocks the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogens, thus lowering the production of estrogens and thus lowering estrogen activity. There are other substances which also block the aromatase enzyme - including 6-OXO (an over-the-counter supplement), Aromasin, etc..
Which do you want to use? Either choice is valid. It will depend on the individual's response, how easy it is to control estrogen activity, cost, etc.
Other factors:
1. Arimidex is by prescription and is very expensive.
2. 6-OXO is over-the-counter, but dosing guidelines are not clear.
3. DIM is over-the-counter, is relatively expensive for what you get. There are pitfalls - such as "DIM-complex" - which water down the DIM concentration by adding additives.
4. Broccoli and I3C - both precursors to DIM can be used. But they require you to avoid antacids, needing acidity in the stomach to break them down and create DIM.
In any case, you will have to monitor your estrogen levels via blood testing to determine how much of each you want to use.
__________________
Any statement I make on this site is for educational purposes only and will change as medical knowledge progresses. It does not constitute medical advice, does not substitute for proper medical evaluation from physician, does not create a doctor/patient relationship or liability. If you would like medical advice, please ask your doctor. Thank you.
Gutterpump
Banned
- Awards
- 1
I feel with levels at over 400, you can possibly fix this before resorting to TRT so soon. Problem is finding out the cause and solution.
Matrix and pmgamer have a lot of great knowledge, hopefully people here can help you.
Matrix and pmgamer have a lot of great knowledge, hopefully people here can help you.
pmgamer18
Well-known member
- Awards
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Yes this is a big problem with men going on TRT and not knowing why they are low. If you can figure out why your low and fix it you will not need TRT. Matrix help one of the guys sick as a dog for yrs. not doing good on TRT he drove out to see him and Dr. O Matrix after a short time figured out this poor guy was sick from Milk stopping all Milk his Testosterone levels come back up after stopping TRT.
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