test and estrogen imbalance question...

[MakaveliThaDon]

I came across a decent article while doing some research the other day:

Testosterone Replacement

specifically my question is about these snippets from it:

"The most significant hormone imbalance in aging men is a decrease in free testosterone while estrogen levels remain the same or precipitously increase. Some men convert their testosterone to estrogen. In some men testosterone replacement therapy by itself does not work because the replacement testosterone may convert (aromatize) into even more estrogen. Estrogen is a necessary hormone for men, but too much causes a wide range of health problems such as heart attacks and stroke. High levels of estrogen have been implicated as a cause of benign prostatic hypertrophy and one mechanism by which nettle extract works is by blocking the binding of growth-stimulating estrogen to prostate cells. "

"High levels of estrogen in men also trick the brain into thinking that enough testosterone is being produced, thereby slowing down the natural production of testosterone. Based on the multiple deleterious effects of excess estrogen in men, aggressive actions should be taken to reduce estrogen to a safe range if a blood test reveals elevated levels.

Remember, excess estrogen (estradiol) blocks the production and effect of testosterone throughout the body, dampens sexuality, and increases the risk of prostate and cardiovascular diseases."

"If all of the above fail to increase free testosterone and lower excess estradiol, then the potent aromatase inhibiting drug Arimidex (anastrozole) in the very low dose of ½ (0.5 mg) twice a week is indicated. This should cause an immediate drop in estradiol levels and a rise in free testosterone."

My estradiol levels ARE high, however LH level is good, test level is abysmal at only 277. I'm just taking what I'm reading there, and wondering before I take the plunge and go right for TRT if it would be worth trying an AI such as arimidex first and see if that will help with getting my natural levels back up. The bloods would indicate to me at least that I should be able to produce test, but the high level of estrogen is telling my body it doesn't need to. Is there a better one out these days than arimidex, and at what dose would I try it at?

 

[drinkyboy]

I would like to know this also. Bump

 

[Presa]

I would like to know WTF they are teaching at med school now. TRT is obviously at the forefront now, but finding a doctor that knows what to do with lab tests is a joke. "Hell! I can read the test too doctor. Now what???" I hope you have some luck figuring out your situation. Ok, that was a rant.....

 

[EasyEJL]

My estradiol levels ARE high, however LH level is good, test level is abysmal at only 277. I'm just taking what I'm reading there, and wondering before I take the plunge and go right for TRT if it would be worth trying an AI such as arimidex first and see if that will help with getting my natural levels back up. The bloods would indicate to me at least that I should be able to produce test, but the high level of estrogen is telling my body it doesn't need to. Is there a better one out these days than arimidex, and at what dose would I try it at?

First define high. High as in above 60 and actually high on scale or high as in 45 and so over the halfway mark? I see plenty of guys calling amounts inside of normal "high". But overall exemestane / Aromasin is likely a better choice than arimidex.

I would like to know WTF they are teaching at med school now. TRT is obviously at the forefront now, but finding a doctor that knows what to do with lab tests is a joke. "Hell! I can read the test too doctor. Now what???" I hope you have some luck figuring out your situation. Ok, that was a rant.....

Well, ask The Matrix even, there are no simple answers. And you have to keep in mind that insurance only covers X whether in terms of testing, drugs, "attempts" so a doctor will go with what is 80% likely to help rather than spend the time (and your money out of pocket) to see if you fall into the other 20%. Remember that insurance will only cover things that have a diagnostic code or treatment code defined.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

First define high. High as in above 60 and actually high on scale or high as in 45 and so over the halfway mark? I see plenty of guys calling amounts inside of normal "high". But overall exemestane / Aromasin is likely a better choice than arimidex.




Well, ask The Matrix even, there are no simple answers. And you have to keep in mind that insurance only covers X whether in terms of testing, drugs, "attempts" so a doctor will go with what is 80% likely to help rather than spend the time (and your money out of pocket) to see if you fall into the other 20%. Remember that insurance will only cover things that have a diagnostic code or treatment code defined.

thanks for the input mate. Curious why would exemestane be a better choice specifically? If I'm not mistaken it's actually an irreversible AI correct? How exactly those differ in "real world applications" than a regular AI such as anastrozole I am not sure....

 

[EasyEJL]

Well, the primary differences imo is that exemestane is easier on lipids, lowers IGF less and at "normal" dosing I think reduces estrogen to less of a percent than arimidex (meaning slightly higher estrogen levels with exemestane). For a person not on a cycle, arimidex dosing needs to be played with more to get optimal control of estrogen without wiping it out, exemestane seems easier to get there with.

Really an irreversible AI is what you want, you want that daily production of aromatse enzyme wiped out and gone as your body will create more as time goes by anyhow.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Well, the primary differences imo is that exemestane is easier on lipids, lowers IGF less and at "normal" dosing I think reduces estrogen to less of a percent than arimidex (meaning slightly higher estrogen levels with exemestane). For a person not on a cycle, arimidex dosing needs to be played with more to get optimal control of estrogen without wiping it out, exemestane seems easier to get there with.

Really an irreversible AI is what you want, you want that daily production of aromatse enzyme wiped out and gone as your body will create more as time goes by anyhow.

awesome insight bro. Reps for you. I think I'm gonna it out for a bit and just see if it makes a difference or not. It really would make no sense to search out someone who will put me on TRT if the extra test is just going to end up being converted into more estrogen, so we'll see if this makes a difference.

I wish I had an AI on hand atm, but I've actually NEVER used an AI in my life, I've used plenty of SERMS in PCT, but have never used an AI. All I have on hand atm is a bottle of formestane.

 

[EasyEJL]

Thats not a bad choice, a lot of guys like using it. I like the way it feels but haven't bought any in a while

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Good dosage for estrogen control? Somewhere in the 50-100mg per day range?

 

[EasyEJL]

Yeah, i'd start at 50, see how it feels after a few days

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Will do. Seems everything I've read has stated that your body unfortunately will eventually exhibit downregulation of ANY AI that you are using. Which means taking them for long term, such as when they are given for a few years on end to breast cancer patients makes them slightly less effective over time.

Truth to this?

 

[EasyEJL]

I think like anything its somewhat individual, and somewhat dose dependent. But overall yes, your body always seeks homeostasis

 

[codered5]

Ok, first of all, what are your vitamin D levels? If your LH level is sufficient and you are SURE that your testes are working, then vitamin D can OFTEN be the culprit, especially since most of us are deficient. As for your estrogen question, everyone is different in regards to what their body can handle. For instance, I may have an estrogen reading of 30, which is just slightly above "optimal" but bc my SHBG is so low, I can't even handle that much without libido issues....In summary, post some bloods and get some definitive advice. You could well be on a good track by taking an AI, as this is all that I need in my specific situation to shoot my T and libido up, but you WANT to be sure. Also, there are effective legal OTC AIs that you can get that are cheap.

 

[The Matrix]

Ok, first of all, what are your vitamin D levels? If your LH level is sufficient and you are SURE that your testes are working, then vitamin D can OFTEN be the culprit, especially since most of us are deficient. As for your estrogen question, everyone is different in regards to what their body can handle. For instance, I may have an estrogen reading of 30, which is just slightly above "optimal" but bc my SHBG is so low, I can't even handle that much without libido issues....In summary, post some bloods and get some definitive advice. You could well be on a good track by taking an AI, as this is all that I need in my specific situation to shoot my T and libido up, but you WANT to be sure. Also, there are effective legal OTC AIs that you can get that are cheap.

After dealiing with several hundred guys I have found the most simpliest solution are so overlooked. You are only presenting about 10% of the total picture which drs are only focused on. When dealing with Dr's patients/clients I usually have 2-3 pages of information to sift through on top of normal blood tests. Then and only then will the picture finally start to emerge.

 

[DragonRider]

Well, the primary differences imo is that exemestane is easier on lipids, lowers IGF less and at "normal" dosing I think reduces estrogen to less of a percent than arimidex (meaning slightly higher estrogen levels with exemestane).

Amen. Too often Arimidex is the first option out of someones mouth, but many of us with this problem will already have a problem with elevated cholesterol also. The last thing we need is something that will make that situation worse.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Ok, first of all, what are your vitamin D levels? If your LH level is sufficient and you are SURE that your testes are working, then vitamin D can OFTEN be the culprit, especially since most of us are deficient. As for your estrogen question, everyone is different in regards to what their body can handle. For instance, I may have an estrogen reading of 30, which is just slightly above "optimal" but bc my SHBG is so low, I can't even handle that much without libido issues....In summary, post some bloods and get some definitive advice. You could well be on a good track by taking an AI, as this is all that I need in my specific situation to shoot my T and libido up, but you WANT to be sure. Also, there are effective legal OTC AIs that you can get that are cheap.

I have not had vit D levels tested. I've just had the basics over the last few weeks such as Free t4, TSH, test, glucose, LH, prolaction, cortisol, etc...

I know no 2 cases are the same, but just to get an idea, what AI did the trick for you and at what dose?

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Half life of aromasin is 27 hours correct?

That's what I've read multiple times before, however some broscience posts have also stated that it's 27 hours in women, but only 7 1/2 in men...why that would be I do not know...

edit: also it seems there is a misconception on whether the standard dose is 25mgs, or 25mcgs (which would be .25mg) Anybody wanna clear that up for me?

 

[The Matrix]

Half life of aromasin is 27 hours correct?

That's what I've read multiple times before, however some broscience posts have also stated that it's 27 hours in women, but only 7 1/2 in men...why that would be I do not know...

edit: also it seems there is a misconception on whether the standard dose is 25mgs, or 25mcgs (which would be .25mg) Anybody wanna clear that up for me?

Again you are not looking at the root cause to why your levels are low.
Instead of looking for an answer in a pill, I am sure its something that is quite simple. A pill is not a long term solution. For many its an answer for piss poor lifestyles and denial..

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Again you are not looking at the root cause to why your levels are low.
Instead of looking for an answer in a pill, I am sure its something that is quite simple. A pill is not a long term solution. For many its an answer for piss poor lifestyles and denial..

I respect your opinion. But what if the "simple" problem is that all my test is being converted into estrogen. Then actually this IS the answer....no?

 

[DragonRider]

I respect your opinion. But what if the "simple" problem is that all my test is being converted into estrogen. Then actually this IS the answer....no?

Not really. He is saying it could be doing that due to a biological process that if found and corrected, would mean you returned to normal without the need for pills for the rest of your life.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Not really. He is saying it could be doing that due to a biological process that if found and corrected, would mean you returned to normal without the need for pills for the rest of your life.

everybody on this forum takes at least one pill a day for the rest of their lives, I guarantee you that

no but seriously though, I get it.

 

[DragonRider]

everybody on this forum takes at least one pill a day for the rest of their lives, I guarantee you that

no but seriously though, I get it.

I will agree with you, but we would rather not if we didn't have too, especially when it comes to sexual function. Sex is so much better when everything is spontaneous and you are not worrying about whether everything will work because you forgot that pill, even if that pill is only balancing estrogen.

 

[The Matrix]

With in 2-3 weeks I would have all the answers I need to rule where the cause may be isolated. I have learned to take guessing games out of things with drs patients to get optimum response. Been doing this so long I can do it in my sleep