Protein misconceptions

[The Matrix]

For people that think they need alot of protein from alot of animal sources think again. I have been experimenting with a new way to see if I was ability to build muscle with a different form of a diet unlike anything I thought I would ever think would work.

I usually run people on a higher fat diet for a few months to help rebuild their cell membranes to proper ratio then start to transition them to a more. traditional diet that is more realistic and balanced. I think protein is so over rated I am taking 100 -120 grams of protein, but its from a highly biological source so it ultized by the body much more efficiently then other harsh proteins. I am starting to make this change to alot of my clients and results are surprising thinking that they need all this protein 300 grams a day at 200 lbs. People are getting just as strong and leaner plus reducing stress on organs with more biological protein sources so they are decreasing their chances of disease plus keeping extremly alkaline in the process. To verify this I have them do a black microscope to check for virus and follwoing my suggestions for 2 months they follow up. The results have been decreased bacteria, fungus, mold, and decrease in mutated cells which where there pervioisly identified. There were also change in skin texture, over all glow, decreased anxitey, much more energy, better digestion

my diet is about 120--140 grams of biological sources of protein , 120 net grams of carbs -30 grams of fiber from 150 grams
fats are about 120 grams (50% saturated 25% mono 25% poly ). I eat alot of foods high in chlorophyll and sprouted nuts, seeds,
If my cholesterol is below 125 I will add cholesterol pills to increase it top optimal level.

I'm 195-200 lean and benchin close to 400 stiff leg dead lifts 500lbs for 6-8 reps, squating 365 for 20 reps, bent over rows 315 for reps so I am living proof one can build muscle and get stronger on this type of lifestyle. It actually reduces ones food bill by close to 40% plus benefits outweight the risks.
__________________

 

[bigironkiller]

good info matrix. i also find i dont need alot of protein to make strength/mass gains. im 6'3 255 and generally get around 100-150g protein/day and im fine.

 

[spinn]

Could you give a more specific breakdown of exactly what you eat?

 

[The Matrix]

Could you give a more specific breakdown of exactly what you eat?

I eat pretty much 70% live food non cooked, presproutred seeds,nuts, raw
butters, ghee


no gluten or wheat
very few grains unless presprouted or live
yam, red potatoes, organic rice cakes.
Good fats in proper ratio
red meat cook as raw as you can get it
organic raw eggs washed with warm water
no dairy (butter, goat. sheep,kefir, not included)
alot of greens especially sea vegetables high in chlorophyll, colorful vegetables
vegetarian chilli - one serving 3 times a week
no protein shakes all solid food. (may include organic goat whey soon)

 

[MetalMX]

I eat pretty much 70% live food non cooked, presproutred seeds,nuts, raw
butters, ghee


no gluten or wheat
very few grains unless presprouted or live
yam, red potatoes, organic rice cakes.
Good fats in proper ratio
red meat cook as raw as you can get it
organic raw eggs washed with warm water
no dairy (butter, goat. sheep,kefir, not included)
alot of greens especially sea vegetables high in chlorophyll, colorful vegetables
vegetarian chilli - one serving 3 times a week
no protein shakes all solid food. (may include organic goat whey soon)

This a nice diet you got their.

Mine is like this:

No wheat, gluten, dairy or soy.

I use sheeps milk and sheeps milk yogort.
Organic butter and extra virgin coconut oil butter.
Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Flaxseed oil and Flax meal
Almond Meal
Pumpkins, rice, potatoes, yams.
Quinoa, avocados. Rice cereal, rice milk. Or whole almond milk if i can find it.
Lamb + Chicken most of the time, beef also.
Vegetables - eggplant, broccoli, red peppers, sundried tomatoes, spinach, kale, and green leaft vegetables

 

[The Matrix]

This a nice diet you got their.

Mine is like this:

No wheat, gluten, dairy or soy.

I use sheeps milk and sheeps milk yogort.
Organic butter and extra virgin coconut oil butter.
Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Flaxseed oil and Flax meal
Almond Meal
Pumpkins, rice, potatoes, yams.
Quinoa, avocados. Rice cereal, rice milk. Or whole almond milk if i can find it.
Lamb + Chicken most of the time, beef also.
Vegetables - eggplant, broccoli, red peppers, sundried tomatoes, spinach, kale, and green leaft vegetables

Dump Flaxseed oil switch to coldpressed olive oil,hempseed oil, pumpseed butter, red potatoes not white

 

[MetalMX]

Although i constantly have sugar cravings which i cannot beat.

 

[The Matrix]

Although i constantly have sugar cravings which i cannot beat.

Common in chrommium , manganese, candida, and low blood sugar symptoms.

right now we can not do anything until clincal tests are completed, but sitting on the computer all day does will cause a build up of blood glucose and you will not burn it off so insulin gets released and the cycle continues.

 

[MetalMX]

Common in chrommium , manganese, candida, and low blood sugar symptoms.

right now we can not do anything until clincal tests are completed, but sitting on the computer all day does will cause a build up of blood glucose and you will not burn it off so insulin gets released and the cycle continues.

Although they have been drastically reduced since ive supplemented with chromium, manganese and been on nilstat for the past 2 to 3 months i have to say. And i do exercise whenever i dont feel sick/ill i love exercise... Tennis, basketball and the gym

 

[Gutterpump]

If my cholesterol is below 125 I will add cholesterol pills to increase it top optimal level.

Do you have more info about these? Never heard of them, it's something I definitely need..Do you take them with oxbile?

 

[The Matrix]

Do you have more info about these? Never heard of them, it's something I definitely need..Do you take them with oxbile?

Oxbile does not work with me i take 200 mgs a meal with bet hcl
My body burns cholesterol like no tommorrow possible an indication of some kind of tissue damage (leaky gut possible) since cholesterol is needed for tissue repair and stress hormones.

cholesterol pills are available only to dr's or health consultants like myself.

 

[Gutterpump]

What kind of dr's can give these out? I have a hard time raising my cholesterol above 125, it's always below, and my dr thinks low cholesterol is a good thing.

 

[MacWanted]

Can you provide an example of your daily intake?

does protein shake too bad? can we eat oats?

here is my daily intake:

Breakfast at 8am:
1g of Omega 3
Glucosamine/chondroitin
Liver detox from Now
Rhodiola
Beta alanine
Ginger
Vitamins
20g protein shake (Syntha-6 + elite Whey)
3 organic eggs
50 g of oats with milk
orange juice
2 pieces of complete bread

Collation at 11AM
2 bananas
25g Protein shake (Syntha-6)

Pre-Workout at 12AM:
Xtend + virtago

Post-Workout at 1PM
150g of Light apple compote with 8 gr of glutamine and 8gr of BCAA
20g protein shake (Syntha-6 + elite Whey)

Lunch at 1:30 PM at the canteen of my company
Mainly salad with olive oil + tomatoes + celeri + carotes
Vegetables and sometimes read meat if not too bad
Yoghurt


Collation at 4:30PM
25g Protein shake (Syntha-6)
2 Kiwis

Diner at 7PM
Chicken
Salad with olive oil, mustard, vinegar, garlic
Yoghurt

What do you think?

 

[Mikey851]

Are you guys on these diets for health reasons or because they benefit mass gains? Just curious. I am interested in getting into decent shape and building muscle but I just can't give up the food I love (I can do without fried foods and sugar fine I just have to have meat).

 

[Gutterpump]

Are you guys on these diets for health reasons or because they benefit mass gains? Just curious. I am interested in getting into decent shape and building muscle but I just can't give up the food I love (I can do without fried foods and sugar fine I just have to have meat).

Why would anyone ever want to give up meat? Especially when trying to gain mass?

 

[Rodja]

Remember that hypocholestemia can be just as bad as hypercholestemia. With a number that low, chances are your HDL are very low (a risk factor for CVD). To increase this, eat fatty fish and beef.

Also, your statement of biological protein is a misnomer; all protein is from biological sources. Most of the above benefits are due to the fact that you are focusing on keeping the blood pH alkalinic and also that most people have a mild food allergy to grains.

 

[The Matrix]

you tell me that eating 2 TBSP of EVCCO with 1 TBSP butter, with 4 whole eggs, and occasion 4 ozs a beef a day will not raise cholesterol something else is at play here.
My suspicion is that it is leaky gut or I burn up cholesterol too fast. BTW fish oils are poison to my body ..My body is very paradoxal to the average person, but I am finding out there are more people like me out there. More cholesterol I eat the lower it gets. More fish oils i take the sicker I become. My cells are low in sat and high in fish oils and I never eat fish.

 

[Mikey851]

Why would anyone ever want to give up meat? Especially when trying to gain mass?

I don't know; I couldn't do it. I just love meat too much.

 

[Gutterpump]

Yeah no doubt, cutting out animal protein/fat is a good way to make your test levels drop...even on a cut it's bad to cut them out.

 

[The Matrix]

Yeah no doubt, cutting out animal protein/fat is a good way to make your test levels drop...even on a cut it's bad to cut them out.

Has any one figured that malabsorption is one the biggest factor involved in hormone imbalances ? IF you can not absorp fat and protein you can not make cholesterol or other hormones.

 

[Rodja]

Roughly, how many calories per day do you consume?

 

[Gutterpump]

Has any one figured that malabsorption is one the biggest factor involved in hormone imbalances ? IF you can not absorp fat and protein you can not make cholesterol or other hormones.

Yeah I've almost tripled my intake of enzymes and betain, and since doing this I've really noticed that hcg is working for me. Looking forward to my new test results, have to wait a couple weeks though.

 

[Gutterpump]

you tell me that eating 2 TBSP of EVCCO with 1 TBSP butter, with 4 whole eggs, and occasion 4 ozs a beef a day will not raise cholesterol something else is at play here.

Yeah that's what I do. I take 4 TBSP of extra virgin coconut oil, eat maybe 4-8 whole eggs per day, and chicken everyday. I eat beef maybe 2-3 times per week. I eat cheese 2-3 times per week (old/sharp cheese - no lactose). No dairy, but I am taking in casein shakes maybe twice per day. I also occassionally eat pork. Maybe 3-4 x per week. Bacon is great. Currently taking in 12grams of fishoil per day, evoo, avocado oil, sesamin, CLA, and sesame oil for flavouring. I feel good on this diet (ckd)...and hopefully it's causing my cholesterol to raise. It used to be really low (110)

edit: where do you shop for most of this food in the initial post? I agree, it would be awesome to eat this way (but eggs, goat milk/cheese/butter is still animal fat =D )...but I haven't seen a lot of this food around too often (like the sprouted protein sources, etc). There's gotta be some places in NYC that have this stuff, maybe have to travel farther to get it which is why I've never seen a lot of it. Whole Foods and Trader Joe's has a lot of good stuff though... that's where I usually shop... But it's PREMIUM prices for ANY organic foods, especially the non-mass produced stuff.

 

[Gutterpump]

Btw, someone in another country told me that eating beef and pork are bad for us, because they are the two protein sources that are most similar to human protein. I laughed at them, but is this true? Didn't make sense to me, since we thrive off mother's milk when young (which is essentially a protein produced by humans), and goats milk is also the closest thing to mother's milk and known to be really healthy.

 

[The Matrix]

Btw, someone in another country told me that eating beef and pork are bad for us, because they are the two protein sources that are most similar to human protein. I laughed at them, but is this true? Didn't make sense to me, since we thrive off mother's milk when young (which is essentially a protein produced by humans), and goats milk is also the closest thing to mother's milk and known to be really healthy.

About 1400-1700 depending because of health condition does not allow me to have a great appetite (low thyroid and b-12) despite injections and supplementation. But I still can out sqaut bench and dead lift majority of people out there

dead lift 550 stiff legged x6
bench 405
squat 455 for 8
dumbell shoulder press 130lbs for 6-8 reps
dumbell curl 80's x 8 reps
leg press 28-30 plates for 8 reps

body weight
190 5'9

if was able to eat right and more calories i be

squating 700 plus
dead 750 plus
benching 550


nick name "freak"

 

[Kristofer68SS]

About 1400-1700 depending because of health condition does not allow me to have a great appetite (low thyroid and b-12) despite injections and supplementation. But I still can out sqaut bench and dead lift majority of people out there

dead lift 550 stiff legged x6
bench 405
squat 455 for 8
dumbell shoulder press 130lbs for 6-8 reps
dumbell curl 80's x 8 reps
leg press 28-30 plates for 8 reps

body weight
190 5'9

if was able to eat right and more calories i be

squating 700 plus
dead 750 plus
benching 550


nick name "freak"

great numbers man.

If i could move that weight, my avi would have vids of those numbers instead of my 68 bucket.

hint,hint.


:dl:

 

[Gutterpump]

Any input on this? I wouldn't know where to look for some of these things

edit: where do you shop for most of this food in the initial post?

Btw, those are great numbers for the # of calories you consume. wow

 

[colkurtz_spf]

Btw, someone in another country told me that eating beef and pork are bad for us, because they are the two protein sources that are most similar to human protein. I laughed at them, but is this true? Didn't make sense to me, since we thrive off mother's milk when young (which is essentially a protein produced by humans), and goats milk is also the closest thing to mother's milk and known to be really healthy.

I don't think you need red meat to maintain good testosterone levels. Where did you read that? We don't need cow or mother's milk after two either. I was born in 1958. My pediatrician told my mother to take me off of milk at age two. I grew up on a diet of mostly fruits and vegetables. We ate red meat once a week. My main sources for protein were fish eggs and some poultry. At the age of 15 I played JV QB at 6'2.5 212lbs. I later decided to focus on tennis. When I was 16 I played the Pepsi International Challenge in Johannesburg SA. I was 6'3" 200 lbs (very lean), and served over 130mph with a wood racket. I don't think my diet hurt me.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

About 1400-1700 depending because of health condition does not allow me to have a great appetite (low thyroid and b-12) despite injections and supplementation. But I still can out sqaut bench and dead lift majority of people out there

dead lift 550 stiff legged x6
bench 405
squat 455 for 8
dumbell shoulder press 130lbs for 6-8 reps
dumbell curl 80's x 8 reps
leg press 28-30 plates for 8 reps

body weight
190 5'9

if was able to eat right and more calories i be

squating 700 plus
dead 750 plus
benching 550


nick name "freak"

Your number are great! A 750 lb dead lift would probably be the world record for your weight class.

 

[Gutterpump]

I don't think you need red meat to maintain good testosterone levels. Where did you read that? We don't need cow or mother's milk after two either. I was born in 1958. My pediatrician told my mother to take me off of milk at age two. I grew up on a diet of mostly fruits and vegetables. We ate red meat once a week. My main sources for protein were fish eggs and some poultry. At the age of 15 I played JV QB at 6'2.5 212lbs. I later decided to focus on tennis. When I was 16 I played the Pepsi International Challenge in Johannesburg SA. I was 6'3" 200 lbs (very lean), and served over 130mph with a wood racket. I don't think my diet hurt me.

Yeah no doubt, cutting out animal protein/fat is a good way to make your test levels drop...even on a cut it's bad to cut them out.

I was saying that we need animal fat. Saturated fat is what creates testosterone, and the only good non-animal source that I know of is coconut oil. Imo coconut oil is good to supplement your diet, but animal meat has many more nutrients and should also be part of your diet. Red meat also has many other benefits. I mean, if you have a medical condition where maybe you shouldn't be eating red meat, then don't eat it....but for otherwise healthy people - it is very nutritious and packed full of goodness.

I'm not saying we need mothers milk either, maybe the question was misunderstood. I was asking why beef/pork/goats milk/or even mothers milk would be bad for humans at any point, simple because they are more similar to us than other protein sources. I don't understand this concept that my friend told me of...there was nothing to back up the statement either...but maybe someone here knows?

I was vegetarian for maybe 5-6 years, I started to eat meat again because I felt like complete $hit. (I was completely vegan for several years and then began to introduce eggs/butter/milk for a couple more years because I wasn't feeling good, but this didn't help - so I completely reverted) I honestly think it played a large role in my own hormonal issues since I did it from age 18-24. I thought I was eating healthy too at the time. Cooked all my meals and shopped at the organic shops, ate a lot of non-cooked meals as well. All sorts of protein sources. I was meticulous about it most of the time. IMO it's not for everyone. Everyone is different. We all have different biology/dna/etc.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

I was saying that we need animal fat. Saturated fat is what creates testosterone, and the only good non-animal source that I know of is coconut oil. Imo coconut oil is good to supplement your diet, but animal meat has many more nutrients and should also be part of your diet. Red meat also has many other benefits. I mean, if you have a medical condition where maybe you shouldn't be eating red meat, then don't eat it....but for otherwise healthy people - it is very nutritious and packed full of goodness.

I'm not saying we need mothers milk either, maybe the question was misunderstood. I was asking why beef/pork/goats milk/or even mothers milk would be bad for humans at any point, simple because they are more similar to us than other protein sources. I don't understand this concept that my friend told me of...there was nothing to back up the statement either...but maybe someone here knows?

I was vegetarian for maybe 5-6 years, I started to eat meat again because I felt like complete $hit. (I was completely vegan for several years and then began to introduce eggs/butter/milk for a couple more years because I wasn't feeling good, but this didn't help - so I completely reverted) I honestly think it played a large role in my own hormonal issues since I did it from age 18-24. I thought I was eating healthy too at the time. Cooked all my meals and shopped at the organic shops, ate a lot of non-cooked meals as well. All sorts of protein sources. I was meticulous about it most of the time. IMO it's not for everyone. Everyone is different. We all have different biology/dna/etc.

Perhaps a lot of it has to do with the way we are raised. I've been eating this way all of my life. At 22 I tried the macrobiotic diet. I lost too much strength and energy. I gave it up after 18 months

I'm aware that cholesterol and fats are necessary for testosterone production, but never heard about saturated. Where did you pick that up?

 

[Gutterpump]

It's a pretty large misconception with most people that eating a lot of dietary cholesterol will raise their serum, but it's not the case.

It is saturated fat which creates cholesterol within the liver.

Dietary cholesterol will not raise serum cholesterol to any great degree.

Cholesterol builds hormones.

Mono's and poly's do not aid in hormone synthesis. Eating nuts, olive oil, etc is great for energy but in no way will it aid in raising cholesterol directly, they actually aid in lowering cholesterol.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

It's a pretty large misconception with most people that eating a lot of dietary cholesterol will raise their serum, but it's not the case.

It is saturated fat which creates cholesterol within the liver.

Dietary cholesterol will not raise serum cholesterol to any great degree.

Cholesterol builds hormones.

Mono's and poly's do not aid in hormone synthesis. Eating nuts, olive oil, etc is great for energy but in no way will it aid in raising cholesterol directly, they actually aid in lowering cholesterol.

Where did you get this information?

 

[Gutterpump]

It's easy to find this information anywhere. I could site some sources but I've got to head out. Maybe Matrix or someone can mention something about it as well though. It was after being on this forum for a while that I realized this truth, learned from them and others and then researched it for myself too.

 

[MetalMX]

Has any one figured that malabsorption is one the biggest factor involved in hormone imbalances ? IF you can not absorp fat and protein you can not make cholesterol or other hormones.

Exactly right. I have now freakin moderate thoracic kyphosis, and it seems to be some osteoporosis. All from god damn malabsorbtion. And i always had the tendency to eat lots of calcium rich foods, and for what for it to not be absorbed properly as well as everything else.

Now i know why i have a tendency to be a supplement junkie because i never absorb **** properly.

Although my case is probably more severe, but any kind of malabsorbtion and you cant make the proper hormones.

1400-1700 cals is good in my view. I eat less than that and im 6'3 at 210lbs. My metabolism is crap due to hashimotos and all other hormones in the shitter.

would the hashimotos or even hypothyroidism in general cause malabsorbtion itself??

My cholesterol is 2.4 (3.0 - 5.0) my LDL, HDL also low.

I have had great results with coconut oil for my candida, absorbtion and my digestion feels better/smoother when i use it. its good stuff.

 

[The Matrix]

Exactly right. I have now freakin moderate thoracic kyphosis, and it seems to be some osteoporosis. All from god damn malabsorbtion. And i always had the tendency to eat lots of calcium rich foods, and for what for it to not be absorbed properly as well as everything else.

Now i know why i have a tendency to be a supplement junkie because i never absorb **** properly.

Although my case is probably more severe, but any kind of malabsorbtion and you cant make the proper hormones.

1400-1700 cals is good in my view. I eat less than that and im 6'3 at 210lbs. My metabolism is crap due to hashimotos and all other hormones in the shitter.

would the hashimotos or even hypothyroidism in general cause malabsorbtion itself??

My cholesterol is 2.4 (3.0 - 5.0) my LDL, HDL also low.

I have had great results with coconut oil for my candida, absorbtion and my digestion feels better/smoother when i use it. its good stuff.

my body craves saturated fats as well. I muscle tested at 3TBSP EVCCO and my RBC fatty acid test should low sat fats.When people have leaky gut they tend to use glutamine and cholesterol, sat fats at high rates. There are also cholesterol pills which I am going to order to see if it helps out the serotinon and neurotransmitter imbalance, leaky gut. my main goal is leaky gut, thyroid , and possible wilsons disease (80%) sure. My ferritin levels took a huge nose time ftrom 80 to 42. Could this be from 60 mgs zinc a day?

 

[MetalMX]

my body craves saturated fats as well. I muscle tested at 3TBSP EVCCO and my RBC fatty acid test should low sat fats.When people have leaky gut they tend to use glutamine and cholesterol, sat fats at high rates. There are also cholesterol pills which I am going to order to see if it helps out the serotinon and neurotransmitter imbalance, leaky gut. my main goal is leaky gut, thyroid , and possible wilsons disease (80%) sure. My ferritin levels took a huge nose time ftrom 80 to 42. Could this be from 60 mgs zinc a day?

Well for the past couple of months thats mostly what ive been focusing on to improve my leaky gut/candida albicans/absorbtion. Adding hormone replacement will be the final piece of the puzzle for me after i see where my mercury levels are.

I used: Probiotics ( a high dose multi-strain biotics such as ultrabiotic 45), L-Glutamine 10grams per day, Zinc to help heal the gut lining, Coconut oil, digestive enzymes, aloe vera extract juice was very helpful to reduce inflammation and promote healing of the gut, various anti-fungal herbs, hydrated bentonite clay which detoxifies the gut. Psyillium husks when needed and epsom salts to flush out the bowels. Then did liver detox with liver tonic.

I try to get my supplements in liquid/tonic form or a form that i can drink like effevescent tablets, i find this drastically improves absorbtion of what im taking. Tablets dont do anything, i notice no benefits from taking anything in tablet form.

Leaky gut is usually caused by candida or parasites, im going to do stool tests for parasites, they can be a real bitch and stay with you for years causing problems. constant iregular bowel habits are attributed to parasites.

When i look at my tongue i can see improvements in my inner GI terrain. The very deep criss cross lines arent their like before indicating better terrain. Only thing that is really depressing is this moderate thoracic kyphosis. My sister also has severe kyphosis and scoliosis although u dont notice it whatsoever when u look at her. I hope this can be improved. it might be from my bad posture as a child or from Scheuermann's Kyphosis which is genetic.

Matrix have you had a colonoscopy, gastroscopy and endoscopy? if not these would give you a lot of clues...

Fecal Fat test also the standard for any kind of malabsorbtion.