- 01-11-2009, 10:52 PM
- 01-11-2009, 10:56 PM
In the interim have you considered using bremelanotide (PT-141)?
Have you considered both, are you planning a PCT? Any details as to what you are coming off of?
01-11-2009, 11:00 PM
I am no expert, but from what I have seen from some other posts, Nolva seems to kill libido, I think your best bet is with Toremifene.
01-12-2009, 10:57 AM
you might want to reference this thread for some tips Ultimate "pornstar" stack?
I've used fenugreek and that seems to get the job done but depending on your situation there's other supplements out there!
01-12-2009, 08:52 PM
This isn't for PCT. My goal is to maximize testosterone levels and get libido back on track. For the last couple of years, I haven't been quite right. Don't know what caused it.
Brief summary ~ Test was around 360 when tested back in Jan 08. I've had two stints on HCG. Last blood work after HCG which was in Dec 08 Test came back around 680. I was off of it for about a month and a half when tested. This whole journey began mainly b/c of libido. And it hasn't gotten better. It's actually decreased somewhat. But stress is playing a part in it as well.
I'm thinking clomid or nolva could be beneficial. I know my balls work, HCG had Test in supraphysiological range at one point (libido was not improved). Any other ideas? Has anyone else had experience with these drugs?
01-12-2009, 11:39 PM
steps for treatment.
I like very clean cycles. I think you could take .5 mg lertozole twice a week and get what you a looking to fix. I like 15mg/day toremifene for 3 weeks. Try CJC-1295, or HCG unless you are affraid of a sc inj. (PT-141 will work, but not my fav. sol.)
01-14-2009, 01:52 PM
01-14-2009, 07:40 PM
01-14-2009, 07:45 PM
Lately I've been thinking about raising DHT. Any suggestions beside gel/cream?
01-14-2009, 09:38 PM
Possibly Divanex (potent divanyl extract) to lower SHBG..should raise free test and dht.
Other than that off the top of my head, proviron. Can't exactly get it everywhere though.
01-19-2009, 02:07 PM
01-19-2009, 02:19 PM
I have no experience with proviron (mesterolone) but it's a DHT derivative has androgenic effects, so it will/should raise libido. Some people don't respond much to it though, but typically it's known to skyrocket the libido. It's used on cycle to free up test as well.
What is it?
Mesterolone is an orally active steroid. It is an anabolic steroid, but its anabolic activity is not very strong. So bodybuilders don't typically take this to increase their muscle mass. However, they do often use it to combat gynecomastia, a.k.a., the dreaded "bitch tits".
It is also sometimes prescribed by doctors to increase sexual desire (libido), and it is for this purpose that SWIM is interested in it. It is probably prescribed for various other medical conditions related to sex hormones as well.
????: Drugs Forum http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54989
What Does it Do?
Mesterolone reduces circulating estrogen levels by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme which converts testosterone to estrogen. (So it helps bodybuilders avoid the estrogen side effects produced by other anabolic steroids.)
It also binds to two proteins (sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin) which normally bind to testosterone and render it inactive. As a result, the amount of free testosterone available in the body is effectively increased.
I will post some more detailed information below about what mesterolone does and how it does it, but I want to keep this introductory post at a basic level.
Legaility and Availability
Mesterolone is Schedule III in the U.S. I do not know about its legal status in other countries - except I do know that it is legally available over the counter in some countries.
Under the brand name of Proviron, mesterolone comes in 25mg pills. I believe that bodybuilders typically take about 25mg to 50mg per day, i.e., 1 or 2 pills. That is the dosage level that SWIM used for his libido-enhancing experiments with this drug.
????: Drugs Forum http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54989
Mesterolone is generally considered to have very mild side effects compared to other anabolic steroids when taken at the dosage level mentioned above. However, SWIM can tell you from his experience that it *does* have some of the typical side effects associated with anabolic steroids. (See the report below.)
Note that one bodybuilding site says that, "In high doses it can cause some virilization symptoms in women."In Depth Proviron Profile!
By: Big Cat
NOTICE: This information is for entertainment purposes ONLY!
Pharmaceutical Name: Mesterolone
Chemical structure: 1 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one
Molecular weight of base: 304.4716
Effective dose: 25-100 mg / day orally
Available Doses: 10, 20, 25 and 50 mg tabs
Mesterolone is an orally active, 1-methylated DHT. Like Masteron, but then actually delivered in an oral fashion. DHT is the conversion product of testosterone at the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme, the result being a hormone that is 3 to 4 times as androgenic and is structurally incapable of forming estrogen. One would imagine then that mesterolone would be a perfect drug to enhance strength and add small but completely lean gains to the frame. Unfortunately there is a control mechanism for DHT in the human body. When levels get too high, the 3alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme converts it to a mostly inactive compound known as 3-alpha (5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol), a prohormone if you will. It can equally convert back to DHT by way of the same enzyme when low levels of DHT are detected. But it means that unless one uses ridiculously high amounts, most of what is administered is quite useless at the height of the androgen receptor in muscle tissue and thus mesterolone is not particularly suited, if at all, to promote muscle hypertrophy.
Proviron has four distinct uses in the world of bodybuilding. The first being the result of its structure. It is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, yet it nonetheless has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does. That means in administering it with testosterone or another aromatizable compound, it prevents estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme very strongly, thereby preventing these steroids from interacting with it and forming estrogen. So Mesterolone use has the extreme benefit of reducing estrogenic side-effects and water retention noted with other steroids, and as such still help to provide mostly lean gains. Its also been suggested that it may actually downgrade the actual estrogen receptor making it doubly effective at reducing circulating estrogen levels.
The second use is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains. Its also another part of the equation that makes it ineffective on its own, as binding to these proteins too, would render it a non-issue at the androgen receptor.
Thirdly, mesterolone is added in pre-contest phases to increase a distinct hardness and muscle density. Probably due to its reduction in circulating estrogen, perhaps due to the downregulating of the estrogen receptor in muscle tissue, it decreases the total water build-up of the body giving its user a much leaner look, and a visual effect of possessing "harder" muscles with more cuts and striations. Proviron is often used as a last-minute secret by a lot of bodybuilders and both actors and models have used it time and again to deliver top shape day in day out, when needed. Like the other methylated DHT compound, drostanolone, mesterolone is particularly potent in achieving this feat.
Lastly Proviron is used during a cycle of certain hormones such as nandrolone, with a distinct lack of androgenic nature, or perhaps 5-alpha reduced hormones that don't have the same affinities as DHT does. Such compounds, thinking of trenbolone, nandrolone and such in particular, have been known to decrease libido. Limiting the athlete to perform sexually being the logical result. DHT plays a key role in this process and is therefore administered in conjunction with such steroids to ease or relieve this annoying side-effect. Proviron is also commonly prescribed by doctors to people with low levels of testosterone, or patients with chronic impotence. Its not perceived as a powerful anabolic, but it gets the job done equally well if not better than other anabolic steroids making it a favorite in medical practices due to its lower chance of abuse.
Mesterolone is generally well liked nonetheless as it delivers very few side-effects in men. In high doses it can cause some virilization symptoms in women. But because of the high level of deactivation and pre-destination in the system (albumin, SHBG, 3bHSD, aromatase) quite a lot of it, if not all simply never reaches the androgen receptor where it would cause anabolic effects, but also side-effects. So its relatively safe. Doses between 25 and 250 mg per day are used with no adverse effects. 50 mg per day is usually sufficient to be effective in each of the four cases we mentioned up above, so going higher really isn't necessary. Unlike what some suggest or believe, its not advised that Proviron be used when not used in conjunction with another steroid, as it too is quite suppressive of natural testosterone, leading to all sorts of future complications upon discontinuation. Ranging from loss of libido or erectile dysfunction all the way up to infertility. One would not be aware of such dangers because Proviron fulfills most of the functions of normal levels of testosterone.
01-19-2009, 02:21 PM
01-19-2009, 02:24 PM
I've used proviron before to keep my libido up during a cycle. I've also used it standalone and didn't notice any change in my libido. The only thing that has really worked for me was this:
01-19-2009, 02:27 PM
01-19-2009, 02:29 PM
01-19-2009, 04:07 PM
I mean mild on the HPTA. I think PEG-MGF/Long IGF-1 R3 is causing me to have a low libido, so I'm giong to take 1mg/wk CJC-1295 (long acting GHRH) and .2-.5mg/day PT-141 (only when I feel I need it). I threw away my tren/test and will only use either epistane or turinabol from now on. I've taken cabergoline and SERMS recently coming off tren/test.
01-19-2009, 04:14 PM
01-20-2009, 09:13 AM
for me I noticed a nice increase in libido for a few days then it drops back to normal. For libido purposes off cycle i personally run sustain 1 week on 1 week off if it's even needed. After my first time using sustain I used it for 3 weeks and my libido was back to normal. For me this is the only product that has worked. I have heard good thing about DTHC though also. I currently using that along with the sustain alpha right now while in PCT i will drop the Sustain after this week and see how well the DTHC works.
01-20-2009, 12:08 PM
My problem is I am on TRT and scribed 100mg test-e weekly. But I had a vas reversal so i am on clomid 50mg/daily.
The clomid is working in regards to getting my boys to work again and per my biopsy all is good. I have to submit a sample in march (jerk in a cup so to speak) to make sure vas reversal was good and i have enough swimmers
the bad thing is, i have no libido, i can get my hands on all the viagra or cialis i want but that does nothing for libido
Since the clomid, I have no disire at all. Wish I could take something, hard to get wife preg. if i dont want to get busy
01-20-2009, 12:15 PM
01-21-2009, 08:59 PM
01-21-2009, 09:11 PM
I just took an injection of hydroxocobalamin B-Complex and It is the most refreshing I have felt since I was 16. On that not I just ordered the folic acid/hydroxocobalamin acetate (an excellent detoxifier).
01-21-2009, 09:17 PM
On that note, melanotan II is known to really give a massive boost to libido. But it will stop when you stop using it.
01-21-2009, 09:56 PM
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