[Terp03]

These were taken at 8:35am before Clomid treatment on 7/3/08.

Unfortunately, my T, LSH and FSH have all dropped. Estradiol has also dropped (which is good, right? used to be 32 a few months ago) but Prolactin increased. TSH also increased (before SP it was around 1.3). No Free T result unfortunately as I still do not have morning/random erections.

LH 1.5 (1.5 - 9.3)
FSH 1.2 (1.6 - 8.0)
TSH 1.35 (.4 - 4.50)
Estradiol 20 pg/mL
Testosterone 328 ng/dL (250-1100)
Prolactin 5.6 (2.0 - 18.0)

Haven't noticed much difference on Clomid - was taking 25mg EOD.

I'm out of ideas and I cannot understand how stopping after 9 days of Saw Palmetto extract (320mg) could've wreaked such havoc on my body. It'll soon be six months since discontinuing SPE and while things have slightly improved, I'm nowhere near to the man I used to be.

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by Terp03

These were taken at 8:35am before Clomid treatment on 7/3/08.

Unfortunately, my T, LSH and FSH have all dropped. Estradiol has also dropped (which is good, right? used to be 32 a few months ago) but Prolactin increased. TSH also increased (before SP it was around 1.3). No Free T result unfortunately as I still do not have morning/random erections.

LH 1.5 (1.5 - 9.3)
FSH 1.2 (1.6 - 8.0)
TSH 1.35 (.4 - 4.50)
Estradiol 20 pg/mL
Testosterone 328 ng/dL (250-1100)
Prolactin 5.6 (2.0 - 18.0)

Haven't noticed much difference on Clomid - was taking 25mg EOD.

I'm out of ideas and I cannot understand how stopping after 9 days of Saw Palmetto extract (320mg) could've wreaked such havoc on my body. It'll soon be six months since discontinuing SPE and while things have slightly improved, I'm nowhere near to the man I used to be.

E2 test while on Clomid is invalid, IIRC.

[MuscleBound1337]

Are those numbers before or after the clomid therapy. How long did you take the clomid for?

[Terp03]

This is BEFORE Clomid. I started Clomid on 7/3 and have been taking it EOD. I was saying that my values have dropped compared to a few months ago which, obviously, is not very good.

These were from 2/08:

Prolactin, Serum 4.8 ng/dl (2.0-18.0)
LH, Serum 1.9 mIU/mL (1.5-9.3)
FSH, Serum 1.2 mIU/mL (1.6-8.0)
Estradiol 32 pg/ML (13 – 54)
Testosterone Total 419 ng/dL (250-1100)
Testosterone % Free 1.35% (1.50-2.20)
Testosterone, Free 56.6 pg/mL (35.0 -155.0)
SHBG 40 (7-49 nmol/L)
DHT 43 (25-75 ng/dL)

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by Terp03

This is BEFORE Clomid. I started Clomid on 7/3 and have been taking it EOD. I was saying that my values have dropped compared to a few months ago which, obviously, is not very good.

These were from 2/08:

Prolactin, Serum 4.8 ng/dl (2.0-18.0)
LH, Serum 1.9 mIU/mL (1.5-9.3)
FSH, Serum 1.2 mIU/mL (1.6-8.0)
Estradiol 32 pg/ML (13 – 54)
Testosterone Total 419 ng/dL (250-1100)
Testosterone % Free 1.35% (1.50-2.20)
Testosterone, Free 56.6 pg/mL (35.0 -155.0)
SHBG 40 (7-49 nmol/L)
DHT 43 (25-75 ng/dL)

Have you been taking steroids?
What is the reason for clomid?

Your biggest problem is SHBG=40
With that SHBG value, you need minimum of
TT~800
max
TT~1300

You can get small T boost if your lower your E2, but at this time not worth the effort.
Your DHT is within range, it would be better if it was closer to the top range.

As long as your SHBG stays where it is now,
you will not be able to induce your testis to produce excess of testosterone that you will need.

Look around for other health aspects.

You may want to keep in mind these two items:

#1 my list for blood test, post #44
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

#2 NutrEval
http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/ind...nav=test&id=42


Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis 2.0 (CDSA 2.0/P)
http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/ind...w&nav=doc&id=4

[Terp03]

Originally Posted by JanSz

Have you been taking steroids?
What is the reason for clomid?

Your biggest problem is SHBG=40
With that SHBG value, you need minimum of
TT~800
max
TT~1300

You can get small T boost if your lower your E2, but at this time not worth the effort.
Your DHT is within range, it would be better if it was closer to the top range.

As long as your SHBG stays where it is now,
you will not be able to induce your testis to produce excess of testosterone that you will need.

Look around for other health aspects.

You may want to keep in mind these two items:

#1 my list for blood test, post #44
Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

#2 NutrEval
http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/ind...nav=test&id=42


Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis 2.0 (CDSA 2.0/P)
http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/ind...w&nav=doc&id=4

No, I have never taken steroids. I inadvertantly was taking a high dosage of Saw Palmetto (320mg extract) for 9 days because of subtle hair loss - never intended to take such a high dose, honest mistake.

After I stopped taking it, everything crashed. Before this I had a perfect hormonal profile - never gained fat, built muscle easily, great tone, etc. Now everything has changed and my entire body is messed up and I just don't understand how this happened. Floaters in my vision, poor sleep quality, loss of libido, muscle loss, etc.

Clomid was used to raise my T levels to make sure my pituitary is responding. Morning erections are not present anymore but I can get it up although it takes longer to produce an erection. Really out of ideas here... seeing an opthomologist for the vision problems and a neurologist to determine if there is something else wrong because this just does make any sense.

[Nemesis RR]

Originally Posted by Terp03

No, I have never taken steroids. I inadvertantly was taking a high dosage of Saw Palmetto (320mg extract) for 9 days because of subtle hair loss - never intended to take such a high dose, honest mistake.

After I stopped taking it, everything crashed. Before this I had a perfect hormonal profile - never gained fat, built muscle easily, great tone, etc. Now everything has changed and my entire body is messed up and I just don't understand how this happened. Floaters in my vision, poor sleep quality, loss of libido, muscle loss, etc.

Clomid was used to raise my T levels to make sure my pituitary is responding. Morning erections are not present anymore but I can get it up although it takes longer to produce an erection. Really out of ideas here... seeing an opthomologist for the vision problems and a neurologist to determine if there is something else wrong because this just does make any sense.

320mg of Saw palmetto is the recommended dose. If this is correct your problem maybe something else.

[The Matrix]

Originally Posted by Nemesis RR

320mg of Saw palmetto is the recommended dose. If this is correct your problem maybe something else.

I do not thing this can be blammed on saw palmento there are other factors involved. If you examine events that were occuring 3-6 months prior then you will find your answer. The problem more so lies in your adrenal imbalances more then likely due to hidden stresses.

[Terp03]

I just came back from the opthamologist and they diagnosed a retinal tear in my right eye. Floaters showed up in both my eyes when I stopped SP and I was honestly shocked that I had a retinal tear for someone my age. Lasery surgery was immediately performed to repair the tear but I am completely dumbfounded as to what caused this. I am nearsighted which the doctor says puts me more at risk for retinal tears/detachments but I really doubt SP could cause retinal tears, right?

[OldGator]

Originally Posted by Terp03

I just came back from the opthamologist and they diagnosed a retinal tear in my right eye. Floaters showed up in both my eyes when I stopped SP and I was honestly shocked that I had a retinal tear for someone my age. Lasery surgery was immediately performed to repair the tear but I am completely dumbfounded as to what caused this. I am nearsighted which the doctor says puts me more at risk for retinal tears/detachments but I really doubt SP could cause retinal tears, right?

As Nemesis and Matrix point out, it is highly doubtful SP is your problem.

Don't fret about the 320mg because 320mg is the standard dose - something I (and hundreds of thousands of men I would presume) take all the time - for me approx 10 years on and off - mostly on. I have none of the symptoms you describe.

It must be something else IMO.

[Terp03]

Well it's been 7 months since stopping SP and I'm back to my normal weight ~178lbs. At my worst I was at 162lbs which I haven't weighed since high school, though I think most of the weight gained back is fat (though I'm still for the most part skinny).

I goto the gym and can lift the same weights but haven't noticed gains, still muscular but feel like I've lost muscle mass. I'm also more fatigued during the day.

I haven't had ED, I'm able to get it up for sex but it takes longer to produce an erection (I have not touched Viagra, etc). Hell, I've even outlasted my gf a few times but I'm lacking the heat/libido/drive I used to have.

Morningwood is non-existant and nocturnal erections are hit and miss. Still not getting spontaneous erections like I used to. Entire genital area is still numb and lacks sensation.

My face still isn't as oily as it used to be and appetite still sucks. I used to have a ravenous appetite and not gain a pound but everything is different.

Debating to try either Diesel Test Hardcore or Sustain Alpha but am afraid to touch after what one OTC supplement did to me. Deciding if I should see Shippen again or someone else?

OldGator/Matrix - I was on Paxil for 6 years but discontinued that back in June '07. I strongly beleive this medication messed up my body after long-term use and has made my current situation more pronounced. I'm honestly out of ideas here and just want to live my life again and be happy.

[darkblue1]

Originally Posted by Terp03

Well it's been 7 months since stopping SP and I'm back to my normal weight ~178lbs. At my worst I was at 162lbs which I haven't weighed since high school, though I think most of the weight gained back is fat (though I'm still for the most part skinny).

I goto the gym and can lift the same weights but haven't noticed gains, still muscular but feel like I've lost muscle mass. I'm also more fatigued during the day.

I haven't had ED, I'm able to get it up for sex but it takes longer to produce an erection (I have not touched Viagra, etc). Hell, I've even outlasted my gf a few times but I'm lacking the heat/libido/drive I used to have.

Morningwood is non-existant and nocturnal erections are hit and miss. Still not getting spontaneous erections like I used to. Entire genital area is still numb and lacks sensation.

My face still isn't as oily as it used to be and appetite still sucks. I used to have a ravenous appetite and not gain a pound but everything is different.

Debating to try either Diesel Test Hardcore or Sustain Alpha but am afraid to touch after what one OTC supplement did to me. Deciding if I should see Shippen again or someone else?

OldGator/Matrix - I was on Paxil for 6 years but discontinued that back in June '07. I strongly beleive this medication messed up my body after long-term use and has made my current situation more pronounced. I'm honestly out of ideas here and just want to live my life again and be happy.

My guess is somehow energy is not going to all parts of your body. It's going to one particular location and its taking all the energy from other aprts like legs and hands. This is what happens with some kind of OTC and testosterone supplements (sometimes)

[JanSz]

Originally Posted by darkblue1

My guess is somehow energy is not going to all parts of your body. It's going to one particular location and its taking all the energy from other aprts like legs and hands. This is what happens with some kind of OTC and testosterone supplements (sometimes)

Adrenals and thyroid are responsible for energy.
I do not see any of it being checked here.

[Terp03]

Latest Labs as of 9/22

I'm currently not on anything at the moment:

LH 2.7 (1.5 - 9.3)
FSH 0.7 (1.6 - 8.0)
Testosterone 518 ng/dL (250-1100)
Free Testosterone 83.4 pg/mL (35-155)
Free Testosterone % 1.61 (1.50-2.20)
Prolactin 5.1 (2.0 - 18.0)
TSH 0.87 (.4 - 4.50)
T4 Free 1.26 (0.8-1.8)
T3 Total 121 (97-219)
DHEA Sulfate 241 (11-510)
Androstenedione 94 (50-220)
Cortisol (AM) 13.5 (4.0-22.0)

Contemplating having an MRI done to determine if this is a pituitary problem or not. Endo said everything was fine and said low FSH was not a concern, but I do not feel like I used to before this mess and it's been over 8 months. Really out of ideas here.

[thenxtgrt1]

Originally Posted by Terp03

Latest Labs as of 9/22

I'm currently not on anything at the moment:

LH 2.7 (1.5 - 9.3)
FSH 0.7 (1.6 - 8.0)
Testosterone 518 ng/dL (250-1100)
Free Testosterone 83.4 pg/mL (35-155)
Free Testosterone % 1.61 (1.50-2.20)
Prolactin 5.1 (2.0 - 18.0)
TSH 0.87 (.4 - 4.50)
T4 Free 1.26 (0.8-1.8)
T3 Total 121 (97-219)
DHEA Sulfate 241 (11-510)
Androstenedione 94 (50-220)
Cortisol (AM) 13.5 (4.0-22.0)

Contemplating having an MRI done to determine if this is a pituitary problem or not. Endo said everything was fine and said low FSH was not a concern, but I do not feel like I used to before this mess and it's been over 8 months. Really out of ideas here.

Do you feel the clomid was beneficial?