Ultimate IGF-1lr3 Beginner's Guide by PapaPumpSD!! - AnabolicMinds.com

Ultimate IGF-1lr3 Beginner's Guide by PapaPumpSD!!

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    Ultimate IGF-1lr3 Beginner's Guide by PapaPumpSD!!


    Ok, another "IGF-1" tool I have developed for these great users of AnabolicMinds.com! It was only made possible through the generocity of AM members.

    My REVISED IGF-1 calculator has been attached. I can't thank Bobaslaw enough for his assistance here!

    Special thanks goes out to Bobaslaw who helped me edit it and QA it. Also, thanks to Pumbertot and Grunt76 who's threads have been extremely helpful. I recommend reading Grunt76's sticky!

    I have completed version 1.0 of my guide titled, "Beginner's Guide to GF-1lr3". It is attached as a PDF and I will also post the "text" below.

    NOTE: The attached PDF has illustrations and diagrams not found in the text below. I recommend downloading the PDF for all of the info.

    Please let me know if you have questions regarding this guide.

    -Enjoy and be safe!-

    ============================== ===============

    Beginner’s Guide To IGF1-lr3


    • IGF-1 Reconstitution
    • Making 0.6% Acetic Acid from Vinegar
    • Injection Technique
    • Sterile Procedure
    • Items You Will Need
    • …and more!





    ]Author: PapaPumpSD (anabolicminds.com)
    Date: 05/31/2008
    Version: 1.0

    Special thanks to Bobaslaw (anabolicminds.com)
    for reviewing prior to release


    Table of Contents

    PREFACE 2
    IGF-1LR3 OVERIVEW 3
    0.6% ACETIC ACID OVERVIEW 4
    MAKING 0.6% ACETIC ACID 4
    RECONSTITUTING IGF-1LR3 6
    INJECTING IGF-1LR3 6
    STERILITY 7
    PRE-INJECTION ASPIRATION 8
    INJECTION PROCEDURE 8
    Back-Loading With Bacteriostatic Water (BW) 8
    Items you will need 9
    Injection Directions 9
    GLOSSARY 10



    Preface
    The goal of this guide is to help both those that have not used IGF-1lr3 before and for those that simply would like a methodical approach to the “mechanics” of running it. This guide does not expand on the biochemistry of IGF-1, aside from a very simple introduction to it. I suggest reading a book or searching forums to educate yourself about the biochemistry of “peptides” or “IGF” if you require in-depth knowledge.

    I am not a physician, thus cannot and do not diagnose ailments or diseases and/or nor do I suggest that IGF-1 is a remedy for any illness or diseases. IGF-1 should be treated with much respect. It is research compound, thus you should use at your own risk.

    Currently (05/31/2008), in the United States, IGF-1lr3 is a research compound. It is legal to own this substance to the best of my knowledge (at current time). I am not an attorney, so please review your local law(s) regarding possession and administration of this therapeutic protein.

    I do not condone the usage of IGF-1lr3 unless you are qualified to do so. This guide is provided as a research & development tool only.

    IGF-1lr3 Overivew

    Background:
    Long Arg3 Insulin-like Growth Factor-I (Long-R3-IGF-I) is an 83 amino acid analog of IGF-I comprising the complete IGF-I sequence with the substitution of an Arg for the Glu at position 3 (hence R3), and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N-terminus. Long-R3-IGF-I is significantly more potent than IGF-I in vitro. The enhanced potency is due to the markedly decreased binding of Long-R3-IGF-I to IGF binding proteins which normally inhibit the biological actions of IGFs.

    [Image missing]

    Description:
    Recombinant Human Long-R3-IGF-I produced in E. coli is a single, non-glycosylated, polypeptide chain containing 83 amino acids and having a molecular mass of 9111 Dalton.

    [Image missing]

    0.6% Acetic Acid Overview
    Acetic Acid (AA) will be used to reconstitute (turn your lyophilized IGF-1 into a liquid form) your IGF-1. The standard is to use 0.6% AA. This concentration is typically not available for you to purchase. You can make your own 0.6% AA and I will show you how below (many have used this method successfully).

    Making 0.6% Acetic Acid
    You will have to purchase a few items upfront. Here is a “grocery list” of items you will need. I have provided check boxes for you to check off once you have purchased these items.

    Items Needed:
    • Distilled white vinegar (grocery store)
    • Distilled water (grocery store)
    • 0.2-0.22um sterile Whatman syringe filter
    • 10mL syringe with a luer lock tip
    • ~20-22 gauge needles (just the needles)
    • Sterile glass vial (10-20mL)
    • Alcohol prep pads – sterile kind (70% isopropyl alcohol)

    [Image missing]

    Quick Guide:
    1. Swab the top of your sterile vial with alcohol prep pad (70% isopropyl alcohol)
    2. Mix 7.5mL distilled water with 1.0mL vinegar
    3. Add Whatman syringe filter
    4. Add sterile ~20ga. needle to end of Whatman filter
    5. Inject the 8.5mL of solution into the sterile vial
    6. You now have sterile 0.6% acetic acid



    Detailed Directions:
    1. Wash you hands thoroughly
    2. Optional: wear alcohol treated exam gloves (rub your gloved hands together with 70% isopropyl alcohol on them until dry)
    3. Using a sterile alcohol prep pad, swab the top of your sterile glass vial (into which the acetic acid solution will be held in)
    4. Using the 10mL syringe with a ~20ga. needle on the end, draw up 7.5mL distilled water
    5. Using the same syringe, now draw up 1mL vinegar
    6. Remove needle from the syringe and discard
    7. Attach 0.2-0.22um Whatman sterile syringe filter (do not touch the free end that will have a needle on it)
    8. Put a new, sterile needle (~20 gauge) onto the free end of the Whatman filter (do not touch needle)
    a. Do not use the same needle on the Whatman that was used to originally draw up the unsterile vinegar and distilled water.
    9. Put a ~20 gauge sterile needle into the top of your sterile glass vial to act as a vent
    10. Inject the acetic acid solution into the vial
    11. You are now done and should have sterile 0.6% acetic acid

    Notes:
    1. These items MUST be sterile: 20-22ga. Needles, whatman filter, glass vial
    2. Whatman filter: These small, sterile filters are used to filter the acetic acid solution so it is sterile. It does not matter that the liquid in your syringe (distilled water & vinegar) is not sterile, nor does it matter that the syringe itself is not sterile. Once the liquid goes through the filter it is STERILE. Thus, everything after the filter must be sterile!
    3. You will most likely use 1mL (milliliter) of 0.6% AA to reconstitute your IGF-1. Thus, you should make at least 1.5mL. In reality, it’s just as easy to make 8.5mL as I have stated in the above directions. You will have plenty for use later then.
    4. Do NOT reuse the Whatman filter nor any needles! Discard immediately.

    [Images missing]


    Reconstituting IGF-1lr3
    Reconstitution is simply the addition of the 0.6% AA to your lyophilized IGF-1.
    Assumption: 1mg/mL IGF-1/AA (1mg IGF-1 will be combined with 1mL AA; 1mg IGF-1 is the same as 1,000mcg)

    1. Swab the top of your IGF-1 vial with a sterile alcohol prep pad
    2. Swab the top of your 0.6% AA vial with a sterile alcohol prep pad
    3. Using either multiple insulin syringe volumes (example: 2 x 0.5cc) or a single large syringe, obtain 1.0mL of 0.6% AA.
    4. In the IGF-1 vial, insert a sterile ~20 ga. needle to act as a vent
    5. Inject the 1.0mL of AA very slowly and dribble it down the side of the vial.
    a. Be very careful with this peptide as it is very delicate!
    6. Remove the needle & syringe and discard
    7. Gently swirl the vial or roll between your hands.
    a. Again, be very gentle here
    8. You now have 1mg/mL of IGF-1
    a. This is the same as: 1,000mcg/mL

    Notes:
    1. If you added 2mL of AA, it would be a 0.5mg/mL
    2. I have an Excel calculator that will help you with these calculation. Use the “search” function on Bodybuilding Forum - Supplement Review - Anabolicminds.com to search for “calculator” in the IGF-1 section. Or simply PM me (papapumpsd on Bodybuilding Forum - Supplement Review - Anabolicminds.com) and I can send it to you.


    Injecting IGF-1lr3
    If this is your first time with injections, don’t worry. You will be using a very fine gauge insulin syringe which means you will most likely have nearly effortless injections. These things are so tiny and sharp you may not even feel it penetrating. If you use sterile procedure, aspirate prior to injection, and have diluted your IGF-1/AA solution with enough bacteriostatic water (BW), you should have no issues with your injections and very minimal post-injection discomfort (if any at all!).

    I cannot stress enough the importance on two topics: A) sterility, and B) pre-injection aspiration. Always swab the injection site(s) with a sterile isopropyl alcohol (IPA) pad and aspirate prior to injecting the IGF-1. No questions asked!

    You will most likely intramuscular (IM) injections, but subcutaneous (sub-q) injections are also followed by some, but current theory is that IM will yield a localized effect. By “localized effect”, I am referring to the effect IGF-1 will have at the injection site. So if you inject IM into biceps, it is thought that your bicep muscles will get more of a dose of IGF-1 than other parts of your body (some which you don’t want to be effected, such as the intestines). Both types of injections will have systemic effects (affecting the body as a whole). Long R3 IGF-1 has an estimated half-life of 20-30hrs (taken from IGTROPIN data).

    This guide assumes you will be doing bilateral IM injections. More below.

    Bilateral injections are injections that are evenly divided between two muscles. If you are injecting 40mcg (micrograms) bilaterally, you will be injecting 20mcg into the right bicep and 20mcg into the left bicep.

    Current theorized best practice is to you inject your peptide post workout (PWO). You have a small window of optimal opportunity. Ideally, you would inject immediately PWO, but some do not like the idea of injecting in a public location, such as the gym. Your next best option is to make your way home ASAP and have your needles loaded and ready (with your alcohol swabs sitting near by).


    Sterility
    Without a doubt, sterility is a major concern with injections. You have to be conscious of bacteria and other infectious agents at all times when performing injections or other procedures that require sterility (such as reconstitutions and making 0.6% AA).

    Bacteria (and viruses, and spores, etc) are invisible to the naked eye. Yet they are everywhere. It is very important that you acquire sterile alcohol prep pads (make sure it says “sterile” before you buy them). They are extremely cheap and effective.

    Wash your hands! Before attempting anything requiring sterile technique, wash your hands and dry them with a clean paper towel (not the dirty towel hanging in the bathroom!). For optimal sterility, you may purchase exam gloves (latex or non-latex) and, after putting them on, you can dump some isopropyl alcohol (IPA) onto them and rub your hands together thoroughly. Now you really have sterile hands. Exam gloves are very inexpensive as is the bottle of IPA. IPA can be purchased for ~$1/bottle in the grocery store where the band-aids and whatnot.

    I recommend you use a fresh syringe for each injection.
    Yes, some choose to use one syringe, but my feeling is that the syringes are so inexpensive and the risk of cross-contamination from one injection site to the other isn’t worth the risk. Furthermore, every time your syringe needle has to penetrate something (rubber stoppers in vials, skin, etc) it dulls the tip. Thus, maximum comfort is also achieved with fresh syringes.

    This topic of “one or two syringes” can be argued, but if it’s your first time, play it safe and get off to a great start by using 2!

    Pre-injection Aspiration
    Pre-injection aspiration is what you do after the needle has penetrated the muscle. You must gently and slightly pull back on the needle’s plunger to see if you have hit a vein/artery.

    Either of two things will happen upon aspiration: A) bubbles/air and/or clear liquid will appear in the syringe (this is good), or B) blood will appear (bad).

    If A) occurs, proceed with your injection. If B) occurs, then simply withdraw the needle, and re-pin a different location in that same muscle. You do NOT want to inject your solution into a vein/artery! This may result in very serious consequences. Don’t worry, you can avoid this by simply aspirating slightly. Have faith in yourself.

    Injection Procedure
    First, do not get all worked up over injecting IGF-1. Easier said than done, I know. But the reality is, the insulin syringes are extremely gentle. Also, millions of people around the world, including women and children, use these syringes daily to treat Diabetes. So you know it can’t be that bad (seriously)! I highly recommend watching a couple videos on youtube regarding intramuscular (IM) injections to get a general idea of how they’re done if you’ve never witnessed them!

    Back-Loading With Bacteriostatic Water (BW)
    Back-loading is a process in which you dilute the IGF-1/AA solution that is in your syringe. The point is to dilute the acidity to a point that it will no longer cause tissue necrosis (death/damage) or pain upon injection. It is recommended to dilute no less than 4:1 (4 parts BW to 1 part IGF-1/AA).

    Example: If you are injecting 40mcg bilat, IM, you will have two syringes each with 20mcg IGF-1. Assume you want to draw 2 IU IGF-1. You will draw 2 IUs of the IGF-1/AA solution, then draw 2x4 = 8 IUs of BW (four times the amount of IGF-1/AA solution). The total number of IUs in each syringe will be 2 + 8 = 10 IUs. It will not hurt you if you decide to back-load with more BW. It is a personal preference.

    ***Use my Excel-based “IGF-1” calculator to determine how many IUs you will need for a particular insulin syringe (1cc, 0.5cc, 0.3cc).

    Recommended Best Injection Method: Injecting bilaterally, post workout, intramuscularly (Bilat, PWO, IM)



    Items you will need
    1. Alcohol prep pads
    2. 2 insulin syringes
    3. Bacteriostatic water (BW)
    4. Optional: exam gloves
    5. Optional: IPA (to rub gloves with and to clean the surrounding area)

    Injection Directions
    1. Wash your hands thoroughly
    2. Optional: put on exam gloves and rub with IPA until dry
    3. Using an alcohol swab, clean the tops of both the IGF-1 vial and the BW vial.
    4. Using a fresh alcohol swab, thoroughly clean the injection sites (let dry)
    5. Fill each syringe with the appropriate amount of IGF-1/AA solution
    a. Do NOT touch the needles to anything but sterile surfaces!
    b. It is recommended that you clean/sanitize the area/surfaces you’re working in, in case you mindlessly touch a needle to a table (or other area).
    6. Back-loading: Draw up the necessary amount of BW into each syringe.
    a. Tilt the needle up and down so the bubble(s) rise and fall, which mixes the solution slightly
    7. With the needle pointing up, flick the syringe body to get the bubbles to rise to the needle
    8. Slowly expel the air; be careful to not quirt liquid out as this wastes IGF-1
    a. It takes >3mL of air to cause harm; small volumes of accidentally injected air will most likely be absorbed by muscle tissue
    9. Insert syringe and aspirate by slightly pulling up on the plunger to see if you have hit a vessel. If you see blood, remove needle, and try again (no need to change syringes). If you do NOT see blood, proceed to inject.
    10. Perform “7.” thru “9” above on other side.
    11. Discard sharps in appropriate container



    Glossary

    Acetic Acid (AA): An acid that, when diluted to 0.6%, will act as a preservative for your IGF-1. An off-the-shelf version of 5% AA is distilled white vinegar; your IGF-1 may be supplied in acetic acid (usually 0.6%)

    Aspiration: The technique of checking to see if your inserted needle is in a blood vessel. It is performed by gently pulling up on the syringe plunger until you either see bubbles/air/clear liquid, or blood. If you see blood, remove needle, and re-try the insertion.

    Back-loading: The process of diluting your IGF-1/AA with bacteriostatic water, prior to injection. The purpose is to dilute the acidity of the AA so it doesn’t cause tissue damage and so it doesn’t cause injection burn/discomfort.
    A. Draw desired amount of IGF-1/AA solution
    B. Back-load with BW: draw desired amount of BW

    Bacteriostatic Water (BW)
    : This is water for injection (sterile) that has benzoyl alcohol (BA) added to it to ward of contamination. You use BW to dilute your IGF-1/AA solution prior to injection (aka, “back-loading”).

    Bilateral Injection (bilat): An injection which involves the administration of IGF-1 in equal amounts to each side of the body. If you are injecting 40mcg IGF-1 into the biceps bilaterally, you will be injecting 20mcg into each bicep (left & right side).

    Distilled Water: Has virtually all of its impurities removed through distillation. Distillation involves boiling the water and then condensing the steam into a clean cup, leaving nearly all of the solid contaminants behind. This is NOT sterile water. It can be purchased in any grocery store in the “water” isle.

    Endogenous: Substances that originate from within an organism, tissue, or cell. It is the opposite of exogenous

    Exogenous: Refers to an action or object coming from outside a system. It is the opposite of endogenous.

    IM: Intramuscular; typically refers to the type of injection where you inject a substance directly into muscle tissue

    IGF-1 lr3: A peptide that is responsible for new muscle tissue development; it is synthetic and has a much longer circulatory life than endogenous IGF-1

    Lyophilized: The form in which IGF-1 is typically supplied; this is a freeze-dried protein which is performed in a vacuum; appearance may range from a fine, loose white powder, to a white solid “paste”-type substance

    PWO: Post Work Out; refers to the time period when the administration of IGF-1 is thought to be the most effective (immediately PWO).

    Reconstitution: The addition of 0.6% acetic acid to lyophilized IGF-1r3 to get it into solution. Typically one reconstitutes using 1mL or 2mL of acetic acid, yielding 1mg/mL or 2mg/mL of IGF-1/AA.

    Sub-q: Subcutaneous; typically refers to the type of injection where you inject a substance under the skin; this results in systemic distribution of substances
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    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. New Member
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    Amazing!! Good job, very, very informative
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Ashford View Post
    Amazing!! Good job, very, very informative
    Thank you Frank. Happy reading brutha!

    Also, I recommend downloading the PDF I have attached....it has helpful illustrations/diagrams
    •   
       

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    Nice Job Papa! This should be a sticky!!
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    I would also add that when you go to recon your igf-1, you shouldn't have to inject the AA. The igf-1 vial should suck it in due to the pressure and what not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtisWicked View Post
    I would also add that when you go to recon your igf-1, you shouldn't have to inject the AA. The igf-1 vial should suck it in due to the pressure and what not.
    I think this is dependent upon the syringe you're using. So yes, good recommendation is to insert your slinpin w/AA and see if it is sucked out automatically.

    My slipins didn't automatically release AA upon insertion to the IGF-1 vial (I think mine just have more of a stubborn plunger). I had to keep pressing on the plunger. But you are correct in that there is a vacuum in the IGF-1 vials (assuming it came lyophilized).

    Thanks for the input Kurtis!
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    This is definitely sticky material
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    I have attached my REVISED IGF-1 calculator to the original post above.

    Thank you Bobaslaw for all your incredible help brutha!!! You duh man!
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    Quick question, so if I get 1mg of IGF-1lr3 suspended in AA I don't have to do any reconstituting, correct?

    I feel like this is a dumb question, but I'd like some clarification.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfish View Post
    Quick question, so if I get 1mg of IGF-1lr3 suspended in AA I don't have to do any reconstituting, correct?

    I feel like this is a dumb question, but I'd like some clarification.
    Not a dumb question: If your IGF-1 comes in liquid form, it will not need to be reconstituted. Reconstitution refers to the addition of 0.6%AA to lyophilized IGF-1.

    Thank you good sir,

    -Papa!-
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    just a comment on the vein/artery thing.
    if you are in an artery the plunger will fill up with blood by itself due to arterial pressure.this is how we take arterial bloods in the hospital.

    if do did inject IGF into a vein it will just mean it goes systemic right away rather than into the muscle cells at the location of your choice.
    not harmfull though.

    oh and forgot to say great thread, Papa. you have contributed greatly to this forum, keep the reps going to this guy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumbertot View Post
    just a comment on the vein/artery thing.
    if you are in an artery the plunger will fill up with blood by itself due to arterial pressure.this is how we take arterial bloods in the hospital.

    if do did inject IGF into a vein it will just mean it goes systemic right away rather than into the muscle cells at the location of your choice.
    not harmfull though.

    oh and forgot to say great thread, Papa. you have contributed greatly to this forum, keep the reps going to this guy.
    Thank you for the clarity Pumb! Some things injected into an artery won't kill ya, but I wanted to make a blanket statement so people get in the habit of aspirating since other substances, when injected into a vein, can really mess you up! But yes, IGF-1 accidentally injected into an artery will not be the end of the world.

    I will change this in my guide as I don't want to mislead people into thinking that they'll die if they inject into a vein/artery. But if they do with other "performance enhancers" they can really get messed up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    Thank you for the clarity Pumb! Some things injected into an artery won't kill ya, but I wanted to make a blanket statement so people get in the habit of aspirating since other substances, when injected into a vein, can really mess you up! But yes, IGF-1 accidentally injected into an artery will not be the end of the world.

    I will change this in my guide as I don't want to mislead people into thinking that they'll die if they inject into a vein/artery. But if they do with other "performance enhancers" they can really get messed up.

    yes indeed bro i wasnt trying to trip you up just pointing it out. gear into a vein makes you feel like s.h.i.t for a few hours. synthol into a vein could kill you. a few others compounds wouldnt be much fun either.
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    Crap, I just found out when you die, you lose all your gains...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobaslaw View Post
    Crap, I just found out when you die, you lose all your gains...
    yes because your gains then become either ashes or wormfood.
    that said as long as the coffin is big and wide it was all worth it...........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobaslaw View Post
    Crap, I just found out when you die, you lose all your gains...
    Where's the study on your claim Bobas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    Where's the study on your claim Bobas?

    Touche!
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    great thread papa..this was awesome
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    I did a Google search for the Whatman syringe filters and didn't find any at a reasonable cost. Any suggestions?
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    Hello? Is anybody able to help me locate the sterile syringe filter needed to make the lower concentration AA??
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    First off....great post Papa !

    Quick questions...Is it mandatory to use 0.6% AA to reconstitute IGF-1 LR3 or can we only use bacteriostatic water same way we do with GH ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelix View Post
    First off....great post Papa !

    Quick questions...Is it mandatory to use 0.6% AA to reconstitute IGF-1 LR3 or can we only use bacteriostatic water same way we do with GH ?
    Igf-1 lr3 in .6% AA is stable for a year and then degrades slowly from there. IIRC, if it is reconstituted in BW it is only stable for a few days. If you are going to use it all in the following 2-3 days then you're good, but for the purpose of longevity, the AA is a must.
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    a couple of questions:

    for a peptide noob, what is a good dose? how frequent are injections? and does the reconstituted IGF need to be refridgerated?

    sorry if these have been answered, i may have missed it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosnmiveins View Post
    a couple of questions:

    for a peptide noob, what is a good dose? how frequent are injections? and does the reconstituted IGF need to be refridgerated?

    sorry if these have been answered, i may have missed it.
    The first page of Grunt's IGF-1 will answer the first three questions. If you are using it for nutritient partitioning, the usual dose is 5-10 mics in the morning so it would be one sub-q inject daily (you use a slin pin so they are a slouch). After reconstitution it does not need to be refridgerated (props to Redwolf for that answer). As for use in PCT, since I have not yet dabbled in such fun, I can't make any reccommendations. IIRC, Distilled Water has much experience using Igf-1 in a pct protocol so maybe he, or someone with similar experience could chime in.
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    I'm using igf 1lr3 right now at 20mcg bi lateral each workout day hitting tri's Monday, bi's Tuesday, shoulders Thursday, calves Friday. Mine is reconstituted in .6% acetic acid which does not need to be refrigerated and is good for a year. I've been doing this for 2 weeks so far. I think for a good way to maintain muscle mass during PCT would to be to dose 10-20mcg everyday for a couple months. I'm not 100% sure on this but there are a million threads on this subject so search through this part of the forum and you will find your answer. Look for grunts protocols or datbtrues' protocol
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeymutz View Post
    I'm using igf 1lr3 right now at 20mcg bi lateral
    so 10mcg x2 for 20mcg total injected per workout day?
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    nope 20mcgx2 so 40mcg total
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeymutz View Post
    nope 20mcgx2 so 40mcg total
    ok thats what i figured.

    how is the 4x week treating u? any gains/sides?

    i would probably run 40mcg 5x a week for 5 weeks.
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    well i've only been on for 2 weeks so not really noticing too much besides the pumps i'm getting.

    "i would probably run 40mcg 5x a week for 5 weeks."

    why would i do that any research to back that up? I've never seen any protocol like that.

    if i run it 4 times a week my receptors aren't getting overloaded and i can run it this way for 8 weeks. I'll take about a month off then run 10-20mcg ed for about 2 months after that.

    you have to remember this stuff makes 1 cell into 2 and that new cell needs to mature so gains aren't going to happen quickly. I'm on AAS right now so I'm hoping to see synergy between the two. I am slowly leaning out though which is good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeymutz View Post

    "i would probably run 40mcg 5x a week for 5 weeks."

    why would i do that any research to back that up? I've never seen any protocol like that.
    figured that that would be the most effective way to use up 1mg and not saturate receptors too badly.

    im def a total noob when it comes to peptides. im slowly learning more and more
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    yeah i'm a noob at this too, this is my first cycle. By doing it 4x a week i should be able to run it for 8 weeks without saturation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeymutz View Post
    yeah i'm a noob at this too, this is my first cycle. By doing it 4x a week i should be able to run it for 8 weeks without saturation.
    I've ran a few cycles of peptides myself but I would still consider myself a noob as well.

    Anyways, I'm pretty sure the time to reach receptor saturation is 4 weeks. After that you'll see diminishing returns. Given the cost of the peptide idk if this is the best idea; but then again, it is your choice. If you have material that says otherwise, I would definately like to see it. I'm always on the lookout for more research material.

    Theoretically, you can use peg-mgf to upregulate the igf-1 receptors allowing you to extend your cycle. However, according to research exogenous mgf doesn't quite work like it's endongenous counterpart and I'm not sure how this will work out in a real-world situation.
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    if you used it everyday then yes 4 weeks would be max it you don't use it everyday and and you use it 4x per week like i am then you can run it up to 8 weeks. Read through datbtrues threads and you will see what I'm talking about.
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    I haven't read Datbrute's info on igf-1 but his threads on gh secregogues are gold. I'll give them a read.

    EDIT: Upon futher research it seems that you are correct. Thanks for the clarification. Reps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeymutz View Post
    if you used it everyday then yes 4 weeks would be max it you don't use it everyday and and you use it 4x per week like i am then you can run it up to 8 weeks. Read through datbtrues threads and you will see what I'm talking about.
    hmm, i wonder if 5x a week would make much of a difference in the length it can be run. the only reason i ask is because id like to inject on workout days which is 5 days a week. or possibly not inject on leg day?...hmm got some thinking to do.

    joey, what bodyparts do u inject?
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    i do bi's, tri's, shoulders, and calves. i'm almost out i have maybe 1 week left. i guess i may have been shooting 30mcg instead of 2omcg no big deal. I ordered some peglated mgf and i will be starting that once the IGF-1lr3 run is over. still deciding on my protocol for the pegmgf i'm thinking 500mcg Sunday and Thursday sub q. maybe 750mcg i'm not a big guy so 500mcg should hopefully be enough.

    I've never seen so much conflicting information on peptides before. I guess since there new theres not a lot of research. Datbtrue and grunt are the most knowledgeable but they don't post much here anymore as it seems they feel under appreciated which i concur with.

    Professional muscle has datbtrue on there and he is an active user there
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    I'm def interested...especially for/with PCT, as I have a week left on my ProMagnon/Epistane cycle and would like to try the IGF-1lr3 as part of my PCT protocol. I just wonder how much I'd need at my size. I need to re-read this as some of this is a little confusing. I've never injected anything or used any peptides before, but what the hell. As papa said, gotta pay the cost to be the boss.
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    Question (hope it's not too stupid): A friend of mine gave me a box of 28 gauge x 1/2 (12.7 mm) insulin needles. Can I use these or do I have to throw them away?
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    yeah those slin pins are fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeymutz View Post
    yeah those slin pins are fine.
    Sa-WEET!! Thanks, Joey! How much do you think I'd need for my size? And for a four-week, five-days-a-week cycle, how many vials would I need to buy?
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