My take on IGF-1
- 12-11-2006, 12:10 PM
- 12-11-2006, 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by shivastool
- 12-11-2006, 03:24 PM
12-11-2006, 03:33 PM
Yes, well of course you have other cells to worry about than the ones in your muscles. So good call on focussing on keeping whatever's left of your brain in order...Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
12-11-2006, 04:33 PM
I've been injecting straight AA into my Medulla Oblangata.. and I forgot how to get home yesterday... plus my lungs started beating like a heart and my heart started breathing.
12-11-2006, 04:59 PM
12-11-2006, 10:06 PM
12-11-2006, 10:31 PM
So what? Don't tell me you can tell the difference between feeling nothing and not being sure if you felt something?Originally Posted by shivastool
Or are you telling me that you are THAT much of a wuss?
12-11-2006, 10:45 PM
well I can comment on how much a dull pin sucks... there have been times when I pressed and pressed into my bicep and it didn't even break skin.. I had to TWIST that sucker to break it.. .This was from double butyl sticks... I can relate with shivastool...and I, my good friend Grunt, am not a wuss.
12-11-2006, 10:48 PM
Grunt, for a PCT protocol with IGF, do you think it is better to run 40mcg everyday, or will the 40mcg E3D work as good or better? what do you think would work best?
12-12-2006, 12:07 AM
I think if you start with about 10 days ED and then switch to E3D then you will get the best of both worlds.Originally Posted by Truck 44
The true ideal for post cycle therapy IMO is Oratropin 80mcg E3D.
Oh, and Ubi, don't play tough guy to hide the fact that you try and save even on insulin needles by buying the lowest quality.
12-12-2006, 12:39 AM
no way baby, I have diamond clustered slin pins..
but in all seriousness, they rhyme with schmerumo and I if they pass through too many butyl stoppers, it gets annoying.
example, at the end of your Mg, and you're trying to suck the very last bit (especially the case with those recessed butlyl stoppers), you sometimes need to draw a few times.. hence the dulling.
12-12-2006, 01:23 PM
Yeh I get that too. But hey, since I use BW in my syringe, I'm betting that I get less sting than you....Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
12-12-2006, 01:37 PM
I'm somewhat of a Masochist my friend.
Perhaps I will look more into this cell death caused by Acetic Acid.. don't really want that.
Much love, my Quebecois Snuggle Club District Chapter GrandMaster.
12-14-2006, 02:57 PM
Well, I figured out how to get some bw in the slin pin w/o pushing thru another stopper...load up a reg. (3cc) syringe with a bit of bw, remover the needle, and make sure the top of the tube has BW in it, then draw out the bit you need (I go to the 5 line on a 1/2 cc pin, so I only need to draw .1 cc of bw to dilute properly). I suppose there are other ways to bypass the second draw, just be sure to keep things sterile. Like ubiq, my rat has had too many injects that sucked. The final straw was when the pec inj. BENT sideways and then went in...yea, a sub-q inject into the pectoral reqion. Now that is the non-wussiest beeeaaacchhh!
12-14-2006, 03:24 PM
good idea... I've had pins bend too.. lol
I'd rep you for that but apparently I've used too much reps in a 24 hour period. I'll get you next time.
12-15-2006, 12:22 AM
12-26-2006, 12:09 AM
12-27-2006, 01:31 PM
Can anyone help with mixing information of IGF-1. I have mixed 1000mcg og igf-1 with 1ml of AA. 1IU draw=10mcg.
In previous post it was mentioned that using AA without mixing some BA may cause cell damage. If that is true how much BA should be mixed with 4IU of IGF-1/AA mix?
12-27-2006, 03:08 PM
I have a question regarding IGF concerning what I was told and what I read earlier in this thread. Now I read that people continue to use IGF almost non stop for months at a time. Now I was told that IGF doesn't actually cause muscle cells to split, but instead only matures existing stem cells. This makes the IGF useless after about one month of use, because the body recognizes the excess IGF and stops producing HGH. Without HGH to produce more stem cells, the IGF becomes useless. Can anyone please clarify?? Thanks
12-27-2006, 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by stickdoktor
It's BW---Bacteriostatic water, not BA---Benzyl Alcohol.
BW is water with 0.9% BA in it, to clarify...
I'll let Grunt field this question, as he's the wussie that likes to dilute it.
12-27-2006, 04:11 PM
I was going to buy a 1mg kit with 10ml of sodium chloride as the mixing agent. Is this what everyone is using? Is there something else that's better? I've read something about AA, what does that stand for? I guess my last question is regarding injections. Is IGF supposed to be injected into the muscles you trained that day or just anywhere? I know some of these questions may have been answered and may be common knowledge to some, so let me just thank you in advance.
Last edited by FLX78; 12-27-2006 at 04:46 PM. Reason: Additional questions
12-27-2006, 04:40 PM
I'll be spending most of this year researching but an opinion/point in the right direction would be appreciated - During a recomp/cut what form of IGF-1 would best go with PGF-2a for site specific growth : High dose rhIGF-1 or low dose LR3 IGF-1?
Also, other than searching PubMed are there any books out there that discuss IGF-1, GH, Insulin, MGF, Prostaglandin (in humans, preferably)? I've got Anabolics 2006 and CME II : BTPB but would like to know more than just how to apply them to building muscle.
Hugs and kisses x
12-27-2006, 04:48 PM
There is some truth to this. The results from IGF-1 probably stop because the myoblasts are depleted, having all fused. You need MGF to make more myoblasts. hGH has continuing results because it increases MGF much more than IGF.Originally Posted by FLX78
12-27-2006, 07:52 PM
Thanks for the help! Can you tell me what's the best thing I should use to reconstitute a 1 mg kit of IGF or even MGF? What does AA stand for? ThanksOriginally Posted by Grunt76
12-27-2006, 09:52 PM
Dude, that information has been posted about 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 times already.Originally Posted by FLX78
IGF-1 is reconstituted with Acetic Acid. The actual concentration needed is 100mM, or about 0.578%. We use 0.6% and I know at least one supplier who uses 0.5%, which is plenty close enough.
MGF is reconstituted with Bacteriostatic Water.
12-27-2006, 11:02 PM
Sorry but I just finished reading the thread. As for the percentages, I have no idea what you're talking about. I know I found AA on a site rated at 10% and at 25%. Are either of these acceptable?Originally Posted by Grunt76
12-28-2006, 12:54 AM
This happens only if the IGF is used at doses in excess of 40-50 mcg AND used ED. If you dose 2-3 times per week at about 40 mcg this won't happen. I've read that you can also keep this from happening by using doses of approximately 10-15 mcg ED.Originally Posted by FLX78
12-28-2006, 02:25 AM
Yep, I utterly agree.Originally Posted by mywetnightmares
Uh. Well. You state 10% and 25% and I state that the proper concentration for reconstitution is 0.6%. What is it that you don't understand?Originally Posted by FLX78
12-28-2006, 11:22 AM
Ok, so I read the thread and noticed that Oratropin-1 is recommended when people have injuries. I recently separated my shoulder about a month and a half ago. Will either form of IGF help? Will this be better than pinning IGF? I found a site that sells it and they claim it's better than pinning IGF all the way around. Has anyone had any first hand experience with this? Is one better than the other for different reasons? Should I take both? Thanks in advanceOriginally Posted by Grunt76
12-28-2006, 03:43 PM
12-28-2006, 04:23 PM
12-28-2006, 08:59 PM
Thanks for the help, but it would be real easy to pin where my separation is located. It's actually the joint where my collar bone is, so it's very close to the surface. In fact, I could pin the bone if I'm not careful. Also, are you guys recommending this off of first hand experiences? I'm asking, because I read on another forum that Oratropin is junk. From the delivery to the amount that Is actually used by your muscles.Originally Posted by Grunt76
12-28-2006, 09:22 PM
No, it is great stuff. It is highly recommended in a case such as yours because most soft tissue has very little blood flow. Oratropin is cell-mediated, which means that it can travel from cell to cell through your body, enabling the IGF-1 to reach places where it would be difficult for it to reach with only blood flow as a means of dispersion.Originally Posted by FLX78
12-29-2006, 02:02 AM
Grunt - Congrats on the Member Acknowledgement poll. You deserve it for educating us cretins on IGF-1.
OK, I'll let you and Ubi get back to your endless argument over whether to dilute AA before pinning.
01-04-2007, 07:30 PM
01-04-2007, 10:07 PM
01-05-2007, 12:46 AM
So following this logic, if you were injecting IGF-1 everytime bilaterally into biceps versus rotating between 5 different muscle groups, you would expect the results from the IGF-1 to wear off 5x more quickly with the former versus the latter?Originally Posted by Grunt76
In other words, if IGF-1 "tolerance" is dependent on all the myoblasts being fused, and you're injecting PWO so most of the effect is site-specific, then wouldn't you expect the "tolerance" to also be site-specific?
01-05-2007, 12:52 AM
There seems to be a lot of debate over this... Some people swear by Oratropin, while others think it's a bunch of nonsense (either because it didn't work for them or else they don't buy the science behind it). Because IGF-1 in general doesn't produce immediate and easily observed results, it will probably take quite a while to get a final verdict based on anecdotal evidence. (Although I trust Grunt so I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.)Originally Posted by FLX78
I will say this, though. My most recent cycle was 4 weeks of Superdrol. I gained 16 lbs, and then used Oratropin-1 (along with Nolva, an anti-cortisol, and ActivaTe) for P.C.T. It's now 7 weeks after I finished my cycle (3 after finishing P.C.T.) I have not lost a single pound, and my strength continued to increase all through P.C.T. Was this due to the Oratropin? Impossible to know for sure, but I suspect that it played a part.
01-05-2007, 12:41 PM
Yes and no. This is where it gets pretty complex. The higher the dose, the more spillover you have, IGF-1 working on a larger number of cells other than locally. Also the less myoblasts there are to fuse, the less receptors there are locally to pick up the IGF as myoblasts have IGF receptors.Originally Posted by TeamSavage
So as much as Long R3 IGF-1 is designed to be a systemic drug, it also has some variable degree of local effect, and WILL INEVITABLY ALSO HAVE SOME DEGREE OF SYSTEMIC EFFECT. And as such, depletion of myoblasts will also be both local and systemic, variable depending on both dosage and administration timing.
So if you are injecting IGF-1 in biceps 5 times a week, your LOCAL effects will diminish maybe 3-4 times as quickly as if you inject that same dose on a 5-bodypart rotation. Of course, if the dose is reasonable enough, with the 5-part rotation, you will fuse as many myoblasts as your body can produce and you will get constant benefit from the IGF whereas with pinning only the biceps you will have rapidly diminishing local results. The dose at which a 5-part rotation gives a perpetually constant results level will also give continued results if pinned only in the biceps. Local benefits will diminish quickly and total benefits will be lesser, though.
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