My take on IGF-1
- 10-25-2006, 10:53 PM
- 10-26-2006, 12:53 AM
Originally Posted by Thunder1
- 10-26-2006, 12:54 AM
Originally Posted by r1ck
It isn't harmful in veins but it is far from optimal, as you will obtain no local effect.
10-26-2006, 07:44 AM
anyone got any tip on trying to aspirate with one hand --like when you do BIs?[having a bit** of a time]also I notice when you aspirate you draw some air into the syringe then shoot the air back in?----when I shoot lats think Im gone skip aspirate---not many viens theirOriginally Posted by Grunt76
10-26-2006, 12:14 PM
10-26-2006, 12:18 PM
Skull, it's a vacuum, at least it is with a slin pin.
You have blood vessels in your lats. I aspirate with anything, no matter what.
Aspirating with one hand.. put a finger on the hilt of the barrel, grasp the plunger in any way feasable, and pull back while exerting force with the finger on the barrel... this keeps the pin relatively stable.. you can get it with practice.
10-26-2006, 12:24 PM
I agree with Mr. Pincushion above.Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
Plus, you really don't need to pull back hard AT ALL on the plunger. It takes a LOT more force to create a bubble of vacuum in there than to draw blood when you are in a vein. Any little pull on the plunger brings in blood real quick.
10-26-2006, 07:51 PM
So It doesn't destroy the igf if people do preload? Just a safety factor. Sorry I'm just going thru a stupid faze.Originally Posted by Grunt76
10-26-2006, 07:57 PM
10-26-2006, 08:02 PM
so u can preload igf and bw, goto gym, inject post-workout, or its better to load bw right before injectingOriginally Posted by Grunt76
10-26-2006, 08:14 PM
What do you think would happen if a person with high BF tried to inject into a certain muscle, but the layer of fat was thicker than the pin and the IGF got injected into the fat layer? Would the IGF/AA solution mostly end up in the nearby muscle? Or would this be equivalent to a SQ injection, mostly missing the nearby muscle and having primarily systemic effects?
10-26-2006, 09:18 PM
10-26-2006, 09:37 PM
When you say it lasts about 24 hours, do you mean that it has degraded slightly after 24 hours or that most or all has degraded after 24 hours?Originally Posted by Grunt76
Thanks for taking the time to answer all these questions.
10-26-2006, 10:03 PM
10-26-2006, 10:12 PM
loading BW or NACL is for wussies.. you don't need it.Originally Posted by r1ck
AA straight up is fine. There's no necrosis after 7mg diluted at 500mcg/ml for me.
That's right, all of you who load BW or NACL into your pin are wussies, and I'm calling you all out... even my man Thunder and my boytoy Grunt.
10-26-2006, 10:12 PM
IGF tends to cause all tissues to grow so if you have cancer then it will grow faster and if you don't have cancer there's nothing to grow. Think 2X2=4 but 2X0 still equals 0.Originally Posted by badbart
10-26-2006, 10:24 PM
Google "IGF1 cancer". Elevated levels of IGF1 are associated with a higher risk of a lot of cancers. Most studies say high levels of IGF1 are a good predictor of who has a higher chance of cancer. I'm no expert but I was reading a thread about IGF 1 were Dr. john said “Only GH elevates IGFBP-3, which protects you from the cancer promoting activity of IGF-1. Some of the guys using that stuff are going to be really sorry they did one of these days. “Originally Posted by mywetnightmares
10-26-2006, 10:36 PM
I just did a quick review of the Google results and it says that IGF-1 can increase the risk of colon and prostate cancer specifically. I didn't read enough to evaluate the strength of the research behind these claims. But if it is true, then that's even more reason why Grunt's protocol should be employed, since it will minimize systemic IGF-1 distribution (and thus exposure in the prostate and colon) while maximizing site-specific muscular benefits.Originally Posted by badbart
Personally, my favorite cancer-causing agent is Copenhagen. If only it helped grow muscles...
Not an expert on this, just my 2˘.
10-27-2006, 12:22 AM
I like to add the BW right before I pin.Originally Posted by r1ck
Primarily systemic effects as you state.Originally Posted by TeamSavage
One very reputable company sells IGF in 100mcg vials. They provide BW to reconstitute it, not AA. They state that the IGF must be used within 24 hours. It is known that IGF-1 degrades pretty quickly in BW, but I do not know at what exact rate. I think it is safe to say that you will get very significant degradation at 48 hours and almost complete at 72 hours.Originally Posted by TeamSavage
Originally Posted by badbartTRUEOriginally Posted by mywetnightmares
Not that trueOriginally Posted by badbart
TRUEOriginally Posted by TeamSavage
Cancer cells express IGF-1 within themselves, for internal use, in very high amounts. That is part of their "insanity" if you will. Thus, higher levels of IGF-1 are linked to cancer. Obviously. But there is a difference between IGF-1 created within a cell and IGF-1 coming from the outside and attaching to a receptor on the surface of the cell. Those cells are already more or less bathing in their own autocrine IGF-1.
There is no CONCLUSIVE research proving that IGF-1 on the surface of cancerous cells makes them grow any faster than they already do. And there is no conclusive research that shows that exogenous IGF-1 administration can CAUSE cancer.
Everyone's looking for the cause, but IGF-1 looks more to be a great part of HOW cancer WORKS and not how it is CAUSED.
Most of the evidence on cancer indicates that it comes from damaged DNA. While it is true that IGF-1 increases a cell's lifetime, it also keeps it in good repair. The statement that IGF-1 is cancer-causing is just about false. The (healthy) people with the highest IGF-1 levels are athletes who eat reasonably well and this segment of the population is the one with the lowest risk of cancer. Other factors are much more important you say, such as smoking, stress, poisons, binges? That's my point exactly.
Of course, I will always recommend that those who are at risk of cancer stay away from it as a precaution.
10-27-2006, 12:30 AM
Still looking to start stuff you can't handle huh? :bruce1:Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
I like to add BW after the IGF-1 because that's what I'll be pushing out at the same time as the air bubble, leaving my precious IGF-1 inside the syringe.
Also having something like 30IU of liquid in the barrel makes it easy to divide in two halves for bilateral injection. If you are doing 5 units of liquid, how are you going to divide that in two?
I like having my IGF-1 spread quick and good throughout my muscle tissue, so of course having a larger amount of liquid helps with that.
You can continue to play tough, and I'll just grow more mkay?
10-27-2006, 01:18 AM
10-27-2006, 02:34 AM
It's on tough guy!Originally Posted by Grunt76
You make a concentration of 500mcg/ml. If you have to use ONE pin, then that's easy.. 8 units(40mcg)/2= 4 units(20mcg) a side.. easy peasy japanesey... I use two needles regardless, because I'm sterile like that. 4 units a slin pin... bingo, bango.. your mamma does the tango.
Slin pins are designed for near zero dead space, so whatever is left over is the volume in the actual 1/2" 29g pin. negligible.
You're a big smart french wussie, but you're a bro.. brobro..
10-27-2006, 09:14 AM
10-27-2006, 09:15 AM
LOL and here I thought I was in for a fight.Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
Actually it might be better this way...
10-27-2006, 11:24 AM
Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
I find two needles better also, since I inject only 2 units each side
10-27-2006, 07:11 PM
10-27-2006, 09:05 PM
I just got finish reading an article that claims it a bad idea to use t3 with igf--its says that the t3 would destroy the newly formed cells from the igf--now Im not sure if its igf there talking about or the lr3 igf --I was wondering if the antibinding protiens in the lr3 would protect it from the t3--what Im trying to do is cut some bodyfat and do some spot muscle growth with the lr3 [BIs/shoulders/ lats] Im already taking a mild anabolic[25mg anavar] to counter the t3 and try to direct to bodyfat instead of muscle loss --do I got it all wrong or what? would I be better using ephedra instead?
10-27-2006, 10:23 PM
I feel that that idea about T3 & IGF-1 isn't unwarranted. I wouldn't go so far as saying that for sure that T3 will kill the new baby cells, but there is some evidence that it can do so. The higher the dose, the more likely that effect, of course. It goes for the Long R3 as well as the hIGF-1.Originally Posted by skull
Yes you may run ephedrin or clen or albuterol or any bunch of fatburners with IGF-1 with good results.
10-28-2006, 12:27 AM
do any people do anabolic with igf?
like m1t with igf at the same time
or test e with igf?
are resultats better?
10-28-2006, 09:38 AM
what would you consider a high dose --so I guess the resistance to binding protiens of the LR3 offer no protection from t3Originally Posted by Grunt76
10-28-2006, 01:29 PM
No, because T3 tends to destroy what IGF-1 has created, it does not directly attack the IGF-1 molecule.Originally Posted by skull
Yep all the time and the results are just about spectacular. Imagine doing a bulking cycle. I mean, an ALL-OUT bulk. You eat everything in sight. You're going to blow up, gain lots and lots of muscle provided you do things right. And you will also gain some fat. Now picture that same bulking cycle, except you put on MORE muscle, and LOSE fat at the same time. That's what IGF-1 can do for you.do any people do anabolic with igf?
like m1t with igf at the same time
or test e with igf?
are resultats better?
10-28-2006, 01:38 PM
10-28-2006, 01:55 PM
I'm doing 200mcgs of T4 every morning, plus IGF (40 mcgs 3x's/wk and GH (10 iu's 3x's/wk), and some test.
Should I lower the T4 or go off completely if it's hurting the IGF results??
10-28-2006, 07:20 PM
yea they recomend you take t4 with GH or INSULIN but they dont recomend you take t3 with any of them --go figure?--any idea what dose of t3 would be ok?Originally Posted by CRUNCH
10-28-2006, 07:39 PM
T4 but not T3...that is weird.Originally Posted by skull
Not sure of the T3 dose, no experience with it.
10-28-2006, 07:51 PM
200 mcg's of T4 is a small dose. More than likely you are OK bro.Originally Posted by CRUNCH
I am using 300mgc's of T4 and 25mcg's of T3 and my pegylated MGF is blowing me up all the same...
10-28-2006, 08:03 PM
10-28-2006, 09:21 PM
so I been checkin around [other sites ] and seems that 50-75mcg of t3 is the magic number when using IGF-1LR3 as long as an anabolic is being used.One guy even uses 150mcg if you can believe that. Anavar is a good choice because it raises ATP levels and t3 uses up your ATP to create heat .Also theres some confusion if the t3 will actualy go to the site where you injected the IGF and destroy it.When they talk about t3 eating muscle its mostly got to do with a systemic effect not local.
10-28-2006, 09:30 PM
Interesting.. sh*t 25mcg on cycle is good enough for me regardless.
LR3IGF-1 leans me out anyways, why go overkill with T3? Some people just go bucknutty on the doses with everything.
10-28-2006, 10:39 PM
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