[Grunt76]

Originally Posted by johnmatrix

Lots of really good information in this sticky, there's still a few things I'd like to ask though.

1. To avoid injecting at the local gym but still get the maximum benefits out of injecting post workout, would it be possible to do your workout, then drive home (20mins for me), do a few more sets in the house, then take your igf?

2. What would be considered enough lifting to get your muscles in an optimal state to absorb the igf. The reason I ask is I work long hours 4 days on 4 days off, so tend to workout only 4 or 5 days out of 8 as I don't have time to go to the gym. But I'm using the igf for pct so would like to take it every day. Would maybe 8 heavy sets be enough to prime your muscles for the uptake of igf?

3. A final quick question, exactly how much bac water would you mix in the syringe with 40mcg igf? My igf came pre-mixed with BA not AA as most seem to have on here, but I assume it is diluted with BW just the same?

1. Yes. 20 minutes is still decent, of course doing a few more sets will probably re-prime your muscles for the IGF.

2. Unknown.

3. Sadly BA will not blend with BW inside the syringe, so it is not useful to add BW...

[johnmatrix]

Ok, cheers Grunt thanks for the info.

[wophood]

Grunt, bro, you are the man. I've been reading this thread like a book. When pinning post WO, what type of protein to carb ratio do you suggest making your shake?

[Grunt76]

Originally Posted by wophood

Grunt, bro, you are the man. I've been reading this thread like a book. When pinning post WO, what type of protein to carb ratio do you suggest making your shake?

The usual 2:1 carbs:aminos is best. I use dextrose coz I can't stand the taste of waxy maize starch, along with hydrolized proteins and free form amino acids. About 150g, i.e. 100g carbs and 50g aminos.

[wophood]

Nice, that's pretty much what I'm already mixing. Appreciate it.

[L J]

Originally Posted by Grunt76

Grape seed extract has been shown to be an incredible antidote for gender cancers, such as prostate, testicles, ovaries, breast etc. Why this knowledge is not more common is way beyond me.

What sort of dose you take mate?
Have a bit of cancer in the family so sounds interesting

[Grunt76]

Originally Posted by L J

What sort of dose you take mate?
Have a bit of cancer in the family so sounds interesting

300mg ED. I'm currently looking into IBE's new supplement called Reverse, which has orally bioavailable (finally) resveratrol. I think it will have all these benefits.

[longrob]

Originally Posted by Grunt76

300mg ED. I'm currently looking into IBE's new supplement called Reverse, which has orally bioavailable (finally) resveratrol. I think it will have all these benefits.

Grunt,
So are the resveratrol capsules that are presently available not very effective due to low bioavailability?

[Xodus]

Anyone else notice distinct lines or indentions in their (all of them ) fingernails that correspond with their IGF use? The nail behind the line is noticeably thicker than what is before it. I guess it makes sense due to the nature of it, I just find it strange as it is also indicative of other drug use/health conditons (hypothyroidism). I also restarted supplementing with Biotin during that time and may be the cause as well.

[Grunt76]

Originally Posted by longrob

Grunt,
So are the resveratrol capsules that are presently available not very effective due to low bioavailability?

Exactly. They get easily oxidized in the digestive tract.

[sjenkins4]

i just ordered some rhigf-1 got a good deal 4 mg for $100 i know its not as potent as lr3 but the cost was to good not to try. but i need to know should i up the dose or what im just looking for some localized growth in delts and traps shooting pwo. so how much would get bound up before receptors pick it up.

[Grunt76]

Originally Posted by sjenkins4

i just ordered some rhigf-1 got a good deal 4 mg for $100 i know its not as potent as lr3 but the cost was to good not to try. but i need to know should i up the dose or what im just looking for some localized growth in delts and traps shooting pwo. so how much would get bound up before receptors pick it up.

I think if you shoot 400mcg each side you MIGHT see something out of it?

[RedwolfWV]

Wow... not worth the price at that dose.

[sjenkins4]

well ok thats a little disappointing. i was under the impression it had a higher afinity to bind to primed receptors. how is gh induced igf still anabolic if its produced in the liver and binds so quickly how would it reach our muscles. Ive read this whole thread and many others but i guess i missed something somewhere. just trying to further my understanding of something i might be putting into my body

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by sjenkins4

well ok thats a little disappointing. i was under the impression it had a higher afinity to bind to primed receptors. how is gh induced igf still anabolic if its produced in the liver and binds so quickly how would it reach our muscles. Ive read this whole thread and many others but i guess i missed something somewhere. just trying to further my understanding of something i might be putting into my body

I had planned to experiment w/ regular IGF-1 at one point.

I don't feel that overall levels of circulating IGF-1 (i.e. liver produced) is all that important for muscle growth. It is the muscle IGF-1 that is important. This IGF-1 is differentiated from cirulatory IGF-1 by its autocrine/paracrine activity. In essence it is locally made & locally used.

Here's how the difference between circulating & locally made/used hormones is accomplished.

The protein that creates growth hormone and the protein that creates the growth hormone receptor act in muscle tissue within a cell to create both the GH ligand and its receptor. These two bind inside the cell but are not activated. When this complex rises to the cell surface it "twists like a light bulb" and activates the receptor-intra-cellular signaling cascade.

The import point is that circulating GH has no chance to bind with the receptor in this instance because the recepetor was birthed w/ a GH ligand pre-attached.

This type of "birthed together" activity may account for some of locally produce/used IGF-1 activity in muscle but not all. There are empty receptors.

So the quest becomes can you take the IGF-1 you purchased and administer it in a way that it is taken up in those open receptors in muscle tissue?

One thing you might try is to pin IGF-1 in the muscle in multiple places at the same time...like you would if you were filling the muscle with site enhancing oil. You would also need to dose multiple times throughout the day. So rather then one big dose which will travel systemic-like and that means it will degrade quickly in plasma you may consider small doses in multiple locations within a single muscle several times a day.

Now getting back to circulating levels of IGF-1. They are important and seem to need to be at some basic level before autocrine/paracrine action takes place.

The primary initiator of local IGF-1 creation including the splice varient production of MGF (which occurs as a result of resistance exercise) is GH levels.

Anyway bro. Don't be discouraged. Experiment some and report back.

[sjenkins4]

ive tried lr3 last yr and liked the results but just was looking for localized stuff i guess we'll see how much can get absorbed by the muscle. Im kinda stubborn but i cant see why it would be less likely to bind to the receptors than lr3 whatever doesnt will just be bound to igf1bp3 instead of going systemic unless it goes to bp3 first. ive heard lr3 is 2 to 3 x as strong so thats where ill start and adjust from there.