My take on IGF-1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    Cool, please give some feedback later on, OK? These protocols are fairly new and it will be good to have some ability to assess how well they do over the longer term.
    Will do, already have 4mg in hand, so at my current dosing I'll be good to go for 30 weeks.


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    7 mgs will last me 525 days at E3D

    I'm actually just starting a Monday, Wednesday, Friday rotation with it as I'm combining it with another little helper. It should last longer this way actually. I'll let you know as I ascertain results. I can compare to my past ED protocols, I've ran 7mgs that way as well. 25 on, 25 off.
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    best 40mcg E3D day on day off cycle?
    4 weeks? on 4 weeks off?
    •   
       

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    in theory you can run E3D protocols indefinitely. This very thread is trying to find out what is best. The other standard protocol is 25 days on, 25 off, using up 1mg in 25 days with 40mcg split bilaterally/day.
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    oh ok, I was wondering, since i workout every 2 days, mabye I should try 30mcg post-workout E2D
    monday chest/shoulders/tris - inject tris
    wed legs - inject quads
    friday - back/bicep - inject bicep
    sunday - chest/shoulders/tricep = inject shoulders
    total 120mcg for 7 days

    very similar to 40mcg E3D
    monday - inject
    thur - inject
    dimanche - inject
    total - 120mcg for 7 days

    what do u think grunt? or others
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1ck
    oh ok, I was wondering, since i workout every 2 days, mabye I should try 30mcg post-workout E2D
    monday chest/shoulders/tris - inject tris
    wed legs - inject quads
    friday - back/bicep - inject bicep
    sunday - chest/shoulders/tricep = inject shoulders
    total 120mcg for 7 days

    very similar to 40mcg E3D
    monday - inject
    thur - inject
    dimanche - inject
    total - 120mcg for 7 days

    what do u think grunt? or others
    Yes that also looks good. Depending on your LBM this might be run indefinitely or you may get slowly diminishing results.

    How long postworkout are you planning on pinning?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    Yes that also looks good. Depending on your LBM this might be run indefinitely or you may get slowly diminishing results.

    How long postworkout are you planning on pinning?
    I started training 3 years ago at 128 lbs with 20% bf,
    had only 100lbm

    Today im 165lbs 12% bf 145 lbm with natural diet/training
    I did try a tbol only cycle and stop it after 2 weeks, because I was getting joint pains and hair lines wow
    gained around 40lbs of muscle, I have small bones(wrist,ankles), hard to put more, igf1 is my option to try to get to 10% bf and gain mabye a couple of lbm to shape up.

    I have 1mg of igf-1, not sure if eod(30mcg) or e3d(40mcg) would be better without any gut increase. I train every 2 days. I might change my workout routine to accommodate e3d igf1.

    what do you think, Thanks
    Eric

    p.s. im 24 years old, 25 next summer
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1ck
    I started training 3 years ago at 128 lbs with 20% bf,
    had only 100lbm

    Today im 165lbs 12% bf 145 lbm with natural diet/training
    I did try a tbol only cycle and stop it after 2 weeks, because I was getting joint pains and hair lines wow
    gained around 40lbs of muscle, I have small bones(wrist,ankles), hard to put more, igf1 is my option to try to get to 10% bf and gain mabye a couple of lbm to shape up.

    I have 1mg of igf-1, not sure if eod(30mcg) or e3d(40mcg) would be better without any gut increase. I train every 2 days. I might change my workout routine to accommodate e3d igf1.

    what do you think, Thanks
    Eric

    p.s. im 24 years old, 25 next summer
    Yes those dosages both look good. No need to go higher than that for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    Yes those dosages both look good. No need to go higher than that for sure.
    thanks master

    I did a search and couldnt find the answer

    If I have puffy nips (little gyno) from puberty since im 12 years old
    the days ill inject igf1lr3 in my pecs will it aggravate my puffy nips? wondering
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1ck
    thanks master

    I did a search and couldnt find the answer

    If I have puffy nips (little gyno) from puberty since im 12 years old
    the days ill inject igf1lr3 in my pecs will it aggravate my puffy nips? wondering
    No, unless your estrogen is really high to begin with, and that's another matter entirely for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    No, unless your estrogen is really high to begin with, and that's another matter entirely for sure.
    should use some armidex .5 ed to stay estrogen low
    with igf1-lr3


    and since I have low lbm should i go stick 20mcg eod instead
    of 30mcg
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1ck
    should use some armidex .5 ed to stay estrogen low
    with igf1-lr3


    and since I have low lbm should i go stick 20mcg eod instead
    of 30mcg
    Now there is a smart man. Start with 20mcg and run the first half of your mg at that dose if you get some good effects. Then kick it up to 30 if you feel you need more. :bb:
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    Very interesting thread. Perhaps I'm missing something and this is a stupid question, but...

    Since Long R3 IGF-1 is localized and binds to the closest receptors first, is it ideal to rotate the point of injection within a single muscle? In other words, if one is injecting pecs, should he just always inject in the center of the pectoral or should he sometimes inject on the upper portion, sometimes on the lower, etc? Thanks.
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    For pecs injecting through the nipples works best.
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    If I want a systemic effect can I pin sub q. I ask because I worry about intestinal growth, but I'd only be pinning twice/week at 40 mcg or maybe 3 times/week at 30 mcg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxxx
    For pecs injecting through the nipples works best.
    Thanks for the tip. I was just using pecs as an example though. Basically, I'm wondering if just injecting in the center of each muscle (pecs or otherwise) is sufficient and the IGF will be distributed throughout the muscle, or if it's preferable to inject in different areas on each injection to ensure effects are evenly distributed throughout that muscle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSavage
    Thanks for the tip. I was just using pecs as an example though. Basically, I'm wondering if just injecting in the center of each muscle (pecs or otherwise) is sufficient and the IGF will be distributed throughout the muscle, or if it's preferable to inject in different areas on each injection to ensure effects are evenly distributed throughout that muscle.
    I had wondered this, and tried different locations per muscle group. It can't hurt. Pecs, I keep one inch inside the nipple and go up from there accordingly. I keep to the thickest part of the pec.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSavage
    Very interesting thread. Perhaps I'm missing something and this is a stupid question, but...

    Since Long R3 IGF-1 is localized and binds to the closest receptors first, is it ideal to rotate the point of injection within a single muscle? In other words, if one is injecting pecs, should he just always inject in the center of the pectoral or should he sometimes inject on the upper portion, sometimes on the lower, etc? Thanks.
    It is not ONLY localized. It was first designed to be a systemic drug and it will have some degree of systemic effect no matter what we do. Some slight systemic effect should be preferred, as it will help maintain tendons, cartilage, bone, internal organs and most soft tissue in good repair. The rest of the effect we want in the muscle. Too much systemic effec means that some of the LBM we are gaining comes from enlarged abdominal organs. I feel that rotating injection sites within a muscle is no effort at all, so why not.

    Quote Originally Posted by mywetnightmares
    If I want a systemic effect can I pin sub q. I ask because I worry about intestinal growth, but I'd only be pinning twice/week at 40 mcg or maybe 3 times/week at 30 mcg.
    Systemic effect is the best way to grow guts. Injecting inside the muscle immediately postworkout ensures that it will primarily affect your muscle. That's what you want.
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    i need to spread some goddamn reps around before I hit you again Grunt.. but just know I love you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    i need to spread some goddamn reps around before I hit you again Grunt.. but just know I love you.
    W000h000 Someone loves me!

    OK, I'm putting away the rat poison now...
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    I want no gut growth at all!!! I mean none. So, would using rhIGF-1 be the best way for me to go?
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    Quote Originally Posted by joikd
    I want no gut growth at all!!! I mean none. So, would using rhIGF-1 be the best way for me to go?
    I would say no, because at low dosage 20mcg or 30mcg eod e3d you will destroy it in urine if you exceed what u need, your not going to take 100mcg a day of course because ull get the coleman gut of the beast, but ill let grunt ze master answer.


    :good:
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    Quote Originally Posted by joikd
    I want no gut growth at all!!! I mean none. So, would using rhIGF-1 be the best way for me to go?
    Just follow my protocol and you won't get any.
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    Thanks for your previous response. Another issue on which I require clarification:

    Let's say one is not focusing on a specific lagging muscle but wishes to hit most or all of the muscle groups...

    I'm assuming the receptor downregulation only occurs on the muscle injected. Is this accurate? So if this is the case, then could you avoid downregulation even at 40mcg ED provided that each specific muscle group was only pinned E7D?

    On a related issue, if one were pinning 40mcg ED but only hitting each muscle E7D, would you still recommend limiting to 4 week cycles?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSavage
    Thanks for your previous response. Another issue on which I require clarification:

    Let's say one is not focusing on a specific lagging muscle but wishes to hit most or all of the muscle groups...

    I'm assuming the receptor downregulation only occurs on the muscle injected. Is this accurate? So if this is the case, then could you avoid downregulation even at 40mcg ED provided that each specific muscle group was only pinned E7D?

    On a related issue, if one were pinning 40mcg ED but only hitting each muscle E7D, would you still recommend limiting to 4 week cycles?
    There seems to be this huge problem with the idea that IGF-1 is both local and systemic. When you inject immediately postworkout in the muscle trained, most of the effect will go to the intended muscle, and there will be some degree of systemic spillover depending on your dosage.

    For this reason, an EOD or E3D protocol is best. That is, not for any given muscle, but for any IGF-1 at all. You may get increased results by pinning the same muscle twice a week, provided you keep to an EOD or E3D pinning scheduled as indicated above.
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    It's been awhile since I been here(months). I've been reading up on all of this good info recently. I go and try to give Grunt some reps and I get denied. I have to spread it around before I can give anymore to you G. Good info on the IGF-1.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    What I always do is to load up a syringe with just the needed amount of IGF & AA, then use a small amount of aluminum foil to make a spacer between the end of the plunger and the cylinder to avoid discharging the syringe in transit, and put this and a couple alcohol pads and my BW inside a sunglass case in my gym bag.

    I grab my bag after my workout, go change in the shower or toilet and pin at the same time. Then I get my shake.
    I would like to preload my syringe before going to gym to pin post-workout, but im not quite understanding what you are saying about the discharging, u need foil?
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1ck
    I would like to preload my syringe before going to gym to pin post-workout, but im not quite understanding what you are saying about the discharging, u need foil?
    When the syringe is preloaded, obviously accidentally pushing on the plunger in transit will push out the precious IGF-1. So I make a spacer between the barrel and the end of the plunger to keep it from being pushed accidentally. Load up a syringe and you will see what I mean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    When the syringe is preloaded, obviously accidentally pushing on the plunger in transit will push out the precious IGF-1. So I make a spacer between the barrel and the end of the plunger to keep it from being pushed accidentally. Load up a syringe and you will see what I mean.
    ahhhh,
    karma for grunt
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    One day I didn't use a spacer and realized I had wasted all my precious IGF in my secret compartment pocket.. in my pants.... I was pissed.

    Lesson learned.
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    I bought some 0.3cc syringe, but the women told me thats it's never going to reach IM cuz the pin is too small? is that true?

    she told me its insulin syringe and they are only for under skin
    im like i know , but i still asked her if they can reach IM, she said no because of the thickness of the skin, I know they will reach my IM in my biceps but im not sure about my pecs since they have more skin and not sure about my shoulders and legs
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1ck
    I bought some 0.3cc syringe, but the women told me thats it's never going to reach IM cuz the pin is too small? is that true?

    she told me its insulin syringe and they are only for under skin
    im like i know , but i still asked her if they can reach IM, she said no because of the thickness of the skin, I know they will reach my IM in my biceps but im not sure about my pecs since they have more skin and not sure about my shoulders and legs
    a lot of o.3cc syringes automaticaly come with a 5/16" needle but if you look around you can find 1/2"
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    that woman is a jackass. Unless you're a fat SOB you can hit small amounts of depot IM with 1/2" 29g needles. You picked a good size barrel too..3/10 is the shizzy. Just use 1/2" instead of the 5/16's or whatever they are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    that woman is a jackass. Unless you're a fat SOB you can hit small amounts of depot IM with 1/2" 29g needles. You picked a good size barrel too..3/10 is the shizzy. Just use 1/2" instead of the 5/16's or whatever they are.
    Someone should manufacture a slin pin with a 1" needle so fat SOB's can slim down with IGF-1. Maybe even a 2" version for the morbidly obese.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    that woman is a jackass. Unless you're a fat SOB you can hit small amounts of depot IM with 1/2" 29g needles. You picked a good size barrel too..3/10 is the shizzy. Just use 1/2" instead of the 5/16's or whatever they are.
    rofl im not fat, but my pecs have a little fat on them, if I mesure them with a body fat caliper it's
    pecs 10mm,
    my biceps 1mm lol,
    tricep 7mm
    thigh 8mm
    calf 8mm

    im around 12% BF,
    how much mm is 5/16 ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1ck
    rofl im not fat, but my pecs have a little fat on them, if I mesure them with a body fat caliper it's
    pecs 10mm,
    my biceps 1mm lol,
    tricep 7mm
    thigh 8mm
    calf 8mm

    im around 12% BF,
    how much mm is 5/16 ?
    Try this...
    Inch/Millimeter Converter -- Technical Notes
    (There's a little-known website you can use to find this sort of information. It's called Google.com. Learn it, love it, use it.)

    Remember that the calipers measure the fat layer folded over, so the caliper measurement is actually two layers of fat, twice the thickness of the single fat layer as it normally rests atop the muscle.

    Still, just get a 1/2" pin. The big pharmacy chains sell them for $3/10.
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    exactly. 1/2" and you're good to go.
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    what happen if you inject igf into a vein?, do u need to aspirate before injecting like aas?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    i need to spread some goddamn reps around before I hit you again Grunt.. but just know I love you.
    Ubi-- Pm me bro, I'm not aloud to pm you GOLDY.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    When the syringe is preloaded, obviously accidentally pushing on the plunger in transit will push out the precious IGF-1. So I make a spacer between the barrel and the end of the plunger to keep it from being pushed accidentally. Load up a syringe and you will see what I mean.
    Is this the only reason you don't preload? I've read a few direction on mixing & they say not to preload. Is there other reasons like down regulation of the igf? Or does it destory it after setting this way after awhile?

    I'm talking about mixing it w/ aa then adding the sodium.

    Thanks, G
  

  
 

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