My take on IGF-1 - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 11

My take on IGF-1

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    These are interesting views here.

    One thing that I have observed is this: it is almost impossible to gain fat on IGF-1. As a matter of fact, I have yet to see a report of ONE person able to eat enough while doing his IGF-1 to gain any fat at all.

    Now if you eat like a true monster, and fat gain is impossible, what happens to the food? I myself ended up eating an average on 4,500 calories a day on just IGF-1 and got some good size. 1" on my arms in a month, that is some very good size, especially for a permanent gain.

    Here is an experiment for the so inclined: Pin 40mcg TWICE A DAY, EVERY DAY, or 30mcg 3 times a day every single day for a month. Jack up your calories to say 10,000.

    I'm betting the guys doing this will gain about zero fat but a lot of LBM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    These are interesting views here.

    One thing that I have observed is this: it is almost impossible to gain fat on IGF-1. As a matter of fact, I have yet to see a report of ONE person able to eat enough while doing his IGF-1 to gain any fat at all.

    Now if you eat like a true monster, and fat gain is impossible, what happens to the food? I myself ended up eating an average on 4,500 calories a day on just IGF-1 and got some good size. 1" on my arms in a month, that is some very good size, especially for a permanent gain.

    Here is an experiment for the so inclined: Pin 40mcg TWICE A DAY, EVERY DAY, or 30mcg 3 times a day every single day for a month. Jack up your calories to say 10,000.

    I'm betting the guys doing this will gain about zero fat but a lot of LBM.
    I was only eating like 300 cals over my BMR a day! That’s why im so amazed.

    Its hard to believe its all lean muscle in 11 days, but with this compound i dunno, what i do know is it isnt fat.

    I weigh myself at the same time weekly or so, last time I weighed myself I was 250 lbs, I was up 4 lbs in the first day on IGF-1, now im 256 lbs.

    Yes it could be water, but muscle is 70 % water, we will see if i have a dramatic weight loss after discontinuation of IGF-1.

    Im also on 100 mg of prop ed, 100 mg of winny ed and 600 mg of test e a week. I have actually been able to lower my dosage of aas on IGF-1 and still gain more!

    I shot 80 mcg bi lat after a chest workout, then 40 mcg eod since, but I feel like dog****, im sure I have the flu, hard to keep cals down, feeling sick, hot then cold ect.

    I have not trained for 12 days!

    Anyone who thinks the weight gain is part fat is completely wrong, their are like 3500 cals in 1 lb of fat, plus my BMR has been going up after the weight increases.

    The growing pains are insane, my tricep tendon is still sore as hell, I dont care because my XL T shirts are so tight on the chest and arms, much more so than they was b4, but damn I feel ill.

    What can I say, im a great responder to aas and IGF-1, not everyone gets the exact same results, if I drop like 7 lbs around 4-7 days after I come off it ill let yall know, but I doubt I will somehow.

    What i noticed the most is larger muscles, with far more density and more very green veins.

    Man, i wish i could jack up my cals to 10000 a day, but i would just puke, a lot.

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    He left out the small fact that hes on 2 grams of gear/week also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattHines View Post
    He left out the small fact that hes on 2 grams of gear/week also.
    Yes it seems that does help things along a bit also. IGF-1 is a *GREAT* catalyst for gear, for sure. Some people report that IGF-1 completely alleviates the sides from the heaviest cycles. Weird huh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattHines View Post
    He left out the small fact that hes on 2 grams of gear/week also.
    Did you just think i was on IGF-1 alone? LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    Yes it seems that does help things along a bit also. IGF-1 is a *GREAT* catalyst for gear, for sure. Some people report that IGF-1 completely alleviates the sides from the heaviest cycles. Weird huh?
    IGF-1 on its own, may be a good compound, aas on their own another good compound, together they are quite unreal IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sikboy View Post
    Did you just think i was on IGF-1 alone? LOL

    IGF-1 on its own, may be a good compound, anabolic steroids on their own another good compound, together they are quite unreal IMO.
    Ofcourse not but you're original post left out a little relevant information.

    Quote Originally Posted by sikboy
    Just like to say i put on 10 lean lbs in 11 days on this stuff.

    IMO, its the ultimate compound
    So you were just maintaining your weight with 2 grams of gear? The IGF-1 just instantly made you blow up?

    IGF-1's great stuff. I'm no hater but 2g/week isn't exactly a moderate dose of AAS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattHines View Post
    Ofcourse not but you're original post left out a little relevant information.



    So you were just maintaining your weight with 2 grams of gear? The IGF-1 just instantly made you blow up?

    IGF-1's great stuff. I'm no hater but 2g/week isn't exactly a moderate dose of anabolic steroids.
    Ya i forgot sorry.

    I was just maintaining my weight as i was dieting.

    2g isnt moderate for most, but for me its just slightly over moderate.

    I am still suprised by the swelling effect, i didnt notice it as much untill i took the IGF-1 with gear.

    Even when i was on 300 mg of susp a day, 100 mg of dbols ed and 600 mg of test e a week, i didnt notice gains this good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    These are interesting views here.

    One thing that I have observed is this: it is almost impossible to gain fat on IGF-1. As a matter of fact, I have yet to see a report of ONE person able to eat enough while doing his IGF-1 to gain any fat at all.

    Now if you eat like a true monster, and fat gain is impossible, what happens to the food? I myself ended up eating an average on 4,500 calories a day on just IGF-1 and got some good size. 1" on my arms in a month, that is some very good size, especially for a permanent gain.

    Here is an experiment for the so inclined: Pin 40mcg TWICE A DAY, EVERY DAY, or 30mcg 3 times a day every single day for a month. Jack up your calories to say 10,000.

    I'm betting the guys doing this will gain about zero fat but a lot of LBM.
    This is something that I have wanted to include in the discussion for awhile. When asking "what happens to the food ?", I think that the partial obvious conclusion besides waste elimination, is LBM but remember that this is POUNDS of food we are talking about in this calorie amount. So, I suggest that the full conclusion is that you may now be walking around with somewhere between five and ten pounds of food in your GI tract. This would account for real rapid apparent LBM "gains" , and while I am in bulk phase I always feel somewhat bloated and heaveir in the gut then normal.............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    I have spent several hours on a few boards and it looks like
    (unscientific tally)

    - 20% of users see no results from IGF
    - 60% of people see some growth but mainly leaning out
    - 20% of people see veru substantial mass gains

    I first thought the bottom category was just making it up but go to other major boards and you will see that some people are blowing up on IGF. I don't know what is going on and I am wondering myself...
    (For the record: I have not seen Sikboy's results myself, I don't know him, nor am I Sikboy using a different username LOL. It is just that I have seen people blow up on IGF on many threads...)
    Im a reg over at bb.com and ssb.com, im a mod at bb.com.

    Here is a pic of my training partner:


    J/K, but i bet he's on as much gear as I.

    I had to show you guys this Specimen..

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    That is a nice pooch. Hopefully he is obedience trained....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    That is a nice pooch. Hopefully he is obedience trained....
    Damn, hope so, he could pretty much do what the hell he wanted.


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    I have noticed that while on IGF (running my first cycle) I dont generally feel more hungry than normal, however I can ingest a "crap load" of calories in one sitting and not feel even the slightest bit full.

    I ate damn near a whole large pizza last night watching the game and afterwards I sure wasnt hungry by any means, but if I wanted more I could have eaten more and prolly not felt bloated one bit...weird.

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    Originally Posted by Grunt76
    These are interesting views here.

    One thing that I have observed is this: it is almost impossible to gain fat on IGF-1. As a matter of fact, I have yet to see a report of ONE person able to eat enough while doing his IGF-1 to gain any fat at all.

    Now if you eat like a true monster, and fat gain is impossible, what happens to the food? I myself ended up eating an average on 4,500 calories a day on just IGF-1 and got some good size. 1" on my arms in a month, that is some very good size, especially for a permanent gain.

    Here is an experiment for the so inclined: Pin 40mcg TWICE A DAY, EVERY DAY, or 30mcg 3 times a day every single day for a month. Jack up your calories to say 10,000.

    I'm betting the guys doing this will gain about zero fat but a lot of LBM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hardgain View Post
    This is something that I have wanted to include in the discussion for awhile. When asking "what happens to the food ?", I think that the partial obvious conclusion besides waste elimination, is LBM but remember that this is POUNDS of food we are talking about in this calorie amount. So, I suggest that the full conclusion is that you may now be walking around with somewhere between five and ten pounds of food in your GI tract. This would account for real rapid apparent LBM "gains" , and while I am in bulk phase I always feel somewhat bloated and heaveir in the gut then normal.............
    Anybody ?

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    syringes


    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    question: as far as I see people are using insulin pins for injecting IGF and MGF. Do insulin pins only come in half-inch? Those are the only ones I could see around. Is half an inch deep enough? Do you ever need to use longer pins to get deeper into the muscle? For quads, for example, I think half an inch wouldn't be enough but this is just a wild quess...

    Thanks
    BD Medical makes a 1 mL insulin Luer-Lokô syringe for removable needle, which allow you to use whatever size needle you chose. BD's product number is 309629.

    They also make a 1 mL Luer-Lokô syringe with 1/100 mL graduations, the same as an insulin syringe. BD's product number: 309628.

    I can't name a specific source, but they should be available through any general pharmacy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardgain View Post
    Anybody ?
    Hm, are you trying to say that eating 10,000 calories a day will have someone gain nothing else than the added amount in their bowels? izza:

    That seems more than unlikely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    Hm, are you trying to say that eating 10,000 calories a day will have someone gain nothing else than the added amount in their bowels? izza:

    That seems more than unlikely.
    No, just that the rapid gains and wondering where all that food is going, to me would suggest that it is a combination of LBM and increased volume of food in the GI tract. You know, before one suddenly increases their calories they were probably around 2-2500 ed, so it stands to reason that this huge increase would result in packing more around inside of you. Especially since we try to keep it steadily going in in 2hr inrements. Just a thought

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandusky View Post
    BD Medical makes a 1 mL insulin Luer-Lokô syringe for removable needle, which allow you to use whatever size needle you chose. BD's product number is 309629.

    They also make a 1 mL Luer-Lokô syringe with 1/100 mL graduations, the same as an insulin syringe. BD's product number: 309628.

    I can't name a specific source, but they should be available through any general pharmacy.
    Yes. Note however that those are far from ideal, as there is quite a bit of dead space within the luer lock and since the volume of liquid and PRICE are at extremes of the spectrum, I would avoid using them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    Yes. Note however that those are far from ideal, as there is quite a bit of dead space within the luer lock and since the volume of liquid and PRICE are at extremes of the spectrum, I would avoid using them.
    Exactly. I concur with the frenchman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    These are interesting views here.

    One thing that I have observed is this: it is almost impossible to gain fat on IGF-1. As a matter of fact, I have yet to see a report of ONE person able to eat enough while doing his IGF-1 to gain any fat at all.

    Now if you eat like a true monster, and fat gain is impossible, what happens to the food? I myself ended up eating an average on 4,500 calories a day on just IGF-1 and got some good size. 1" on my arms in a month, that is some very good size, especially for a permanent gain.

    Here is an experiment for the so inclined: Pin 40mcg TWICE A DAY, EVERY DAY, or 30mcg 3 times a day every single day for a month. Jack up your calories to say 10,000.

    I'm betting the guys doing this will gain about zero fat but a lot of LBM.
    Grunt, I know this idea is for "experimental purposes". Do you now believe that ED shots are ok?
    Thanks, Sd

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    Quote Originally Posted by SD1959 View Post
    Grunt, I know this idea is for "experimental purposes". Do you now believe that ED shots are ok?
    Thanks, superdrol
    I have always written in terms of "hyperplasia per dollar" as being the measure of success with IGF-1. Daily injections are not optimal in that regard. However, in contest prep, or in PCT, daily injections will be preferred. As a matter of fact, I just finished writing a book on IGF-1 "lab work" that details about a half dozen different dosing schedules and amounts according to results sought. The basic guideline remains infrequent and small dosings but this can be very successfully stretched one way or another depending on needs.

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    Grunt,

    You had previously mentioned that IGF can reduce side effects of gear and in the post above you are stating that more frequent dosing during PCT is a possibility. Can you elaborate on what the benefits might be in each case? In PCT for example, would HPTA return to normal? Or would the increased lbm gain from IGF simply mask/balance some of the lbm loss after stopping to take gear?

    Thanks

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    Also, as all of you see on this board, a lot of people are quite happy with IGF even without using MGF with it. I have heard great things about IGF -even if no huge LBM gains, most people get great recomp effects- but not much really about MGF.

    Add to this the fact that MGF is substantially more expensive on a monthly basis (I see MGF and IGF around the same price per mg but MGF is used in much higher doses) and one wonders if MGF is really worth it. I know Grunt's stance that to get results for more than a month one needs to use both compounds but I am wondering whether any creative dosing schemes exist to get around that. Maybe use high doses of IGF for a month and then go off for a month before starting to pin IGF again. Or maybe use high doses of IGF for PCT, which is not much longer than a month anyways...

    Finally, is it true that the price of these compounds can come down a a lot once the economies of scale start being exploited? I am hearing they are actually very cheap to manufacture but difficult to transport and handle and this is why they are so expensive..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    Grunt,

    You had previously mentioned that IGF can reduce side effects of gear and in the post above you are stating that more frequent dosing during post cycle therapy is a possibility. Can you elaborate on what the benefits might be in each case? In PCT for example, would HPTA return to normal? Or would the increased lbm gain from IGF simply mask/balance some of the lbm loss after stopping to take gear?

    Thanks
    The positives of running IGF-1 in PCT are tied to body composition improvements, appetite increase, hyperplasia and its regenerative properties on the testes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    Also, as all of you see on this board, a lot of people are quite happy with IGF even without using MGF with it. I have heard great things about IGF -even if no huge LBM gains, most people get great recomp effects- but not much really about MGF.

    Add to this the fact that MGF is substantially more expensive on a monthly basis (I see MGF and IGF around the same price per mg but MGF is used in much higher doses) and one wonders if MGF is really worth it. I know Grunt's stance that to get results for more than a month one needs to use both compounds but I am wondering whether any creative dosing schemes exist to get around that. Maybe use high doses of IGF for a month and then go off for a month before starting to pin IGF again. Or maybe use high doses of IGF for post cycle therapy, which is not much longer than a month anyways...

    Finally, is it true that the price of these compounds can come down a a lot once the economies of scale start being exploited? I am hearing they are actually very cheap to manufacture but difficult to transport and handle and this is why they are so expensive..
    The 1month IGF/1month OFF has been tried time and again and works well. Or 3 times a week pwo also works very well over the longer term. Some guys are out looking for the edge so to speak and don't mind paying $400 or even $500 a month for just the peptides. That *IS* a lot of money but some people make a LOT of money.

    Peptides are made by genetically engineered E.Coli bacteria that express the particular peptide of interest. Once you have the GMO e.coli, then all you need to do is feed it right and it will make lots and lots of the good stuff. Then you filter that and you are almost done. So essentially they are easy to make. Genetically engineering bacteria is not easy though. What I am getting at is that yes they are easy and cheap to make, but the initial batch costs are high. But you are right, shop around for 100mg, then 1,000mg and then 10,000mg of the same stuff and you will get a MUCH better deal with the greater amount.

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    Thank you Grunt.
    I am very happy to hear that the 1 month off/1 off works. Worth trying for sure..

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    sorry for the excessive questions guys but here is one more:

    What do you think of using IGF while dieting? I would think that it wouldn't be the ideal use because people report going hypo after injections but after reading about this user, I am thinking maybe IGF can be a nice cutter (or addition to a cutter) if you use your head and don't starve yourself around the injection time
    Post Surgery IGF-1 Results. Shocking.

    "I credit the IGF (ran for 15days at 45-55mcg) sub-q injected in the obliques or more often in lower quad above the knee cap to have sped my healing to a supernatural rate. It has also helped preserve muscle without question. Many days I was not on my feet for more than 8minutes. I would eat 150-200grams of protein on a good day. I was nearly totally inactive."

    thoughts?

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    My thought is that you are spot-on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub7 View Post
    What do you think of using IGF while dieting?
    From what I've read and also from experience, IGF-1 is excellent while dieting. Perhaps nothing else is so purely efficient at nutrient partitioning, shuttling carbs exclusively into muscle (and thus ultimately shuttling calories away from fat). I don't know about using it on a CKD diet, as you might feel pretty hypo on injection days, but it's great on a cutting diet with low-moderate carb intake. In this case, you'll probably be consuming much of your carbs around your workout, and thus also around your injection. As Grunt has mentioned, IGF's recomp effects are significant even with a large caloric surplus.
    Last edited by TeamSavage; 02-09-2007 at 07:20 PM. Reason: Typo

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    Grunt,

    I don't post here much but hope you can make something make sense.

    People have been trying GH in 2-3 high doses per week, much like your propsed IGF protocol. Early reports seem they get more muscle but less fat loss, and I am sure you know much more on this than I do...

    My reason for getting into this is, I'm deciding on a GH protocol and the idea of not neededing to run it for 6+ months to see result is drawing me to the 3x per week at a high dose but I was wondering...

    Could you just run gh ED and run igf 3x per week and get faster results like you might from gh 3x per week at a higher dose?

    p.s. all of this will be done on cycle
    Last edited by justreading; 02-09-2007 at 08:13 PM. Reason: ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by justreading View Post
    Grunt,

    I don't post here much but hope you can make something make sense.

    People have been trying GH in 2-3 high doses per week, much like your propsed IGF protocol. Early reports seem they get more muscle but less fat loss, and I am sure you know much more on this than I do...

    My reason for getting into this is, I'm deciding on a GH protocol and the idea of not neededing to run it for 6+ months to see result is drawing me to the 3x per week at a high dose but I was wondering...

    Could you just run gh ED and run igf 3x per week and get faster results like you might from gh 3x per week at a higher dose?

    p.s. all of this will be done on cycle
    YES. That is a very good idea IMO.
    IMO ideally one would alternate days but I'm sure some other ways of running them together in bursts would be very effective as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    YES. That is a very good idea IMO.
    IMO ideally one would alternate days but I'm sure some other ways of running them together in bursts would be very effective as well.
    Guess I'll start off trying the 3x per week high dose with GH and slin protocol...

    If that is quite what I'm looking for then I'll run GH 4 times per week at 7-8iu on off days and IGF post workout 3 times per week

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    I found this while researching Lutalyse (PGF2A). Interesting to say the least; especially since I'm running IGF and just ordered two bottles of Lutalyse. I have no intentions of injecting Lutalyse IM, but Sub-Q rather to battle my stubborn areas. Its hard to say that this read, however, does not peak my interest in Lutalyse IM injections.

    PGF2a + IGF-1: The ultimate cocktail for localized muscle growth?!
    Prostaglandin PGF2a by Bryan Haycock

    Say good by to lagging body parts forever. It is a special time to be a bodybuilder. With the advent of PGF2a as a localized anabolic agent along with the newly available rhIGF-1 which has also been shown to build muscle where you want it, the future for genetically challenged bodybuilders looks bright indeed. A brief refresher course on locally injected IGF-1. Non-exercised muscle, when injection with 0.9 - 1.9 micrograms/kg/day of rhIGF-1 was shown to mimic the effects of physically loading the muscle. Much the same effect PGF2a but by different mechanisms. With local IGF-1 injections there is an increase in protein content, cross sectional area and DNA content. The increase in muscle DNA is presumed to be a result of increased proliferation and differentiation of satellite cells which donate their nuclei upon fusion with damaged or hypertrophying muscle cells. Take note that the quantities of IGF-1 needed are extremely small, much smaller than studies that have shown relatively poor results from administering IGF-1 systemically which range from 1.0 to 6.9 milligrams/kg/day.

    Now add PGF2a to the mix and whalla! You can virtually mimic the mechanical stimulus of training without even picking up a weight. You have PGF2a to accelerate short term protein synthesis by activating ribosomes and/or eIFs and thereby translation, as well as IGF-1 to activate satellite cells to bind and donate additional nuclei to boost the amount of mRNA to be used by the ribosomes. Because the mechanism of action is different, the two compounds should compliment each other delivering results beyond what either one alone could produce.

    Are these compounds going to replace traditional training? Not in the near future. The use of site injectable drugs only reaches the surface musculature. Deeper muscles are only stimulated to grow with traditional training. For strength athletes, strength is dependant on neuromuscular training which is not enhanced by simple muscle hypertrophy without actual lifting in a coordinated fashion. Are these compounds going to replace traditional anabolics? No. The reason is basically the same as with training. Deeper muscle groups are only reached by systemically administered anabolics that are carried throughout the entire body. In addition, androgens are needed to influence genetic expression in favor of whole body skeletal muscle growth. Are these compounds going to change the face of bodybuilding? It is very likely that they will, depending on their availability and cost. I would hope that as competitors become educated about these alternatives that we will no longer see implants in top level competitors. It would also be nice to see people have an option when it comes to pumping their muscles full of "stuff" in hopes that it will improve their symmetry. No doubt the future will bring us even more new and exciting drugs like non-steroidal androgens and compounds that alter the expression of myostatin (GDF8). Once again, it is an exciting time in the science of bodybuilding, perhaps now more than any other time since the introduction of testosterone.
    Mr. Haycock

    Grunt, what are your thoughts?
    Sprt

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    I have a schedule typed up for LR3-IGF-1/pMGF/Epistane/PGF-2a as it's something I'm interested in. Depending on how you use PGF-2a and LR3-IGF-1 you could put on lean mass without working out at all. Which makes it very interesting, y'know if you can work to a schedule that allows you to sit on a toilet for ~30-60 minutes before a meal you could be onto a winner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziricote View Post
    I have a schedule typed up for LR3-IGF-1/pMGF/Epistane/PGF-2a as it's something I'm interested in. Depending on how you use PGF-2a and LR3-IGF-1 you could put on lean mass without working out at all. Which makes it very interesting, y'know if you can work to a schedule that allows you to sit on a toilet for ~30-60 minutes before a meal you could be onto a winner.
    So you are planning an IGF/PGF2A/pMGF/Epi cycle huh? Your injecting the Lutalyse I assume? What doses are you going to run?

    I'd be interested in seeing someone do this,
    Sprt

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    No no no no...not planning on using myself, that would be getting ahead of myself. If you want to ask someone who is/might be using it ask Skull, I believe he's at least planning on IM injections of it.

    I've heard people starting at 1mg/day (0.20mL/day) and increasing upto around 5mg which I can't even imagine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziricote View Post
    No no no no...not planning on using myself, that would be getting ahead of myself. If you want to ask someone who is/might be using it ask Skull, I believe he's at least planning on IM injections of it and I know he's used it transdermally.

    I've heard people starting at 1mg/day (0.25mL/day) and increasing upto around 5mg which I can't even imagine.
    I don't have any intentions on using it for growth, but I do plan on injecting it. I'm a little worried about the injection area (my problem area); lower back, love handles, and lower abdominal. I have a feeling these Sub-Q injects are going to leave me on the sh*tter!

    Sprt

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    Quote Originally Posted by SprtNvolcoM View Post
    I found this while researching Lutalyse (PGF2A). Interesting to say the least; especially since I'm running IGF and just ordered two bottles of Lutalyse. I have no intentions of injecting Lutalyse IM, but Sub-Q rather to battle my stubborn areas. Its hard to say that this read, however, does not peak my interest in Lutalyse IM injections.



    Mr. Haycock

    Grunt, what are your thoughts?
    Sprt
    Yes that is all good and true. Too bad rhIGF-1 is so difficult to find these days.


    Quote Originally Posted by SprtNvolcoM View Post
    I don't have any intentions on using it for growth, but I do plan on injecting it. I'm a little worried about the injection area (my problem area); lower back, love handles, and lower abdominal. I have a feeling these Sub-Q injects are going to leave me on the sh*tter!

    Sprt
    I am pretty convinced that injecting it sub-Q will pockmark the fatty area. I think transdermal is the way to go for localized fatloss. Start by just rubbing it on the problem areas as is - with gloves - and watch for small sides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    I am pretty convinced that injecting it sub-Q will pockmark the fatty area. I think transdermal is the way to go for localized fatloss. Start by just rubbing it on the problem areas as is - with gloves - and watch for small sides.
    Pockmark? Like the "pitting" others have reported ... ??
    & are you saying just to rub the pgf2a on straight from the bottle? no DMSO or other carriers?

    Interesting,
    Sprt

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    Quote Originally Posted by SprtNvolcoM View Post
    Pockmark? Like the "pitting" others have reported ... ??
    & are you saying just to rub the pgf2a on straight from the bottle? no DMSO or other carriers?

    Interesting,
    Sprt
    Listen, I have not tried it but I have seen posts by guys who claim to get results by just rubbing the injectable solution on their bodies. But maybe that's BS. Worth a try though. And yes I think "pitting" is the right word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    Listen, I have not tried it but I have seen posts by guys who claim to get results by just rubbing the injectable solution on their bodies. But maybe that's BS. Worth a try though. And yes I think "pitting" is the right word.
    I see, I see ...

    Aside from PGF2A and back to IGF, I have a very specific question for you Grunt. I'm a big fan of HST and Haycocks philosophies. That being said, lets say I want to pin on my OFF days from the gym. Would there be any added benefit in doing a quick set of curls, lateral raises, or tricep extensions to get some receptor site activity going before I pin my IGF?

    You have said in the past that IGF will float around the body until it finds sites willing to let it bind (or something to this nature). Would these quick exercises help to increase the chance of IGF uptake to the targeted muscle groups; which ever they may be -- depending on the exercises? Does this make sense? Say I was putting emphasis on my bis and performed the previous stated sequence of events?

    I hope this makes sense,
    Sprt

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