Dosing IGF-1 types

VES

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Oratropin 40mcg per pre-measured dose. 15 doses per kit. I think the recommendation is 30 days before one gets more resistant to the LR3. I see members saying that 20mcg is thought to be just as effective (for those who inj.) as a higher dose.

My question is- could someone use 1/2 of the Oratropin dose and make a kit last 30 days (assuming 20mcg IS an effective dose of IGF)? Or do you need 40mcg if you go oral instead of inj., for reasons of absorption (if such a differentiation exists with this chemical).

Anyone have experience with OT vs. inj. that could share a thought on it? It also sounds like doing IGF before and at the tail end of other enhancement methods is the best way to use it, is this correct?
 

FENRIR

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hmmm....good question...I am interested as well about this one
 

NevrEnuf

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subscribed, i am also interested in this as i am planning on doing a cycle at either 20 or 40mcg, dragon and his buddy have a good log on here with their use of MR's igf at 10mcg and they got good results but i wonder if with ibe's oral..
 

SecretOfSteel

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on days when I didn't work out I used 20 mcg of oratropin, but used 40 on the days I did work out - I was pretty pleased with the stuff, my appetite was absolutely insane though.
 

VES

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So you just squirted half the pre-measured dose on the days you did 20mcg? Has anyone else done this? Is the effectiveness of MR's inj. the same as that of IBE's OT? Anyone done both and have an idea? It just seems like if it's all the same, an easily administered oral would be superior, and at $200/1mg vs. $200/1.2mg, it seems like a great deal as well. Unless there's something I'm missing- which I'm hoping more senior members here can illustrate. Thanks again.
 
Grunt76

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With the injectable you can get localized growth whereas the oral gets more evenly distributed. It's pretty much the only difference I can think of right off the bat. Maybe the recomp effects would be slightly more pronounced with the oral because of that.
 
bad rad

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Just a thought but WHY would anyone use the oral dosing? The intestines have the highest concentration of receptors.
 

VES

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I thought the orally administered igf was absorbed through the mouth, not in the stomach. Maybe I'm off on that one, but this is what IBE has to say about Oratropin:

"nothing will go to your stomach it will stick to your mouth only. you know how you can tell if the oratropin is being absorbed fast and crossing the BBB? this might sound funny but trust me you will see. try drinking a glass of wine before bed and right when you lay down take a dose of the oratropin it will knock you out and fast as if you took a sleeping pill. and no it is not the wine doing this it is the IGF stimulating something in the CNS. the injectable will not to this. remember the IGF receptors are located in the brain. also oratropin is being absorbed closes to the brain then the injectable so that should tell you something....just a thought"

With this in mind, it sounds like it is just as effective as inj., which brings me back to my question. Is it- based on those who have used both- and if so- can it be 1/2 dosed with the same effectiveness as a 20mcg inj.? Someone must have tried this...
 

VES

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OK, anyone know anyone who once knew someone who read a thread on if half dosing OT was as effective as inj. media grade? I know someone who wants to buy it right the first time, if anyone knows, or even has a really good hunch...
 

MorganKane

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I used OT but the full 40mcg a day.
Did not get anything out of it. could not feel I even took it. no benefit or no sides..

40mcg is on the low side of recommended injectable.

Unfortunatly it just did not work for me.
 

VES

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Hmm... Not what I was hoping for, but with the big hoopla going on in the Oratropin Info thread- in which it seems ppl are more bent towards talking about the mechanism through which it asserts its effects- I'm really thinking about hitting the tried and true route. As much as I would rather believe Ora could do exactly the same thing without having to pin...
 
Grunt76

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Not trying to bring you down, VES, but it seems some people don't respond to the injected IGF-1 at all. Just ask beezlebub's calves.
 

VES

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LOL... So then it's $1200 gh or go with Oratropin and see what happens...???
 
Grunt76

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Nah man. The number of non-responders from either oratropin or MR Long R3 IGF-1 injectable is fairly small. Don't take it like that. Count on it being effective, the odds are on your side.
 

VES

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Aight. I thought I read Bobo or someone talking about trying 20mcg, but is this considered too small a dose? Is 40mcg really the smallest dose one should consider effective? That has been the biggest question in my mind thus far.

Thx for your advice- so few have given it- though many seem to be using both products, I guess there is little concrete evidence supporting dosage as compared to gains.
 
BodyWizard

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OK, anyone know anyone who once knew someone who read a thread on if half dosing OT was as effective as inj. media grade? I know someone who wants to buy it right the first time, if anyone knows, or even has a really good hunch...
I've been tracking this pretty closely (except for my recent real-life "vacation"), and I remember talk about doubling up (riskarb was the first one here to do that), but nothing about halving the dose. when it's been brought up the response has been, 'why bother?'
 
Grunt76

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We're all different, VES. Dosage will vary from individual to individual. If you give info on your body then it's easier. Generally speaking, Ronnie Coleman will need more of everything than the average 160lb guy.
 

VES

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LOL...I forgot about that. 190lbs, limited prior experience with cycles of anything, naturally thin build. Just a normal guy getting back into lifting heavy, and I wouldn't mind helping my shoulders out with the potential "healing" benefits of igf.

BWiz, re- ppl saying why bother, I think because if the body's response to 20mcg was just the same as 40mcg (usable I mean), then a single 15 dose kit would last 30 days, and save me a hundred bucks toward other supplements.
 
Grunt76

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Well with the injectable, looking for localized growth, I would see 20mcg. But for an oral, which gets more distribution? 40mcg is a good dose IMO. Now that's just me and I'm sure there are people out there who will do great with just 20mcg. Why don't you listen to your body and go with that?

There really isn't a way to know for sure which dose is better for you until you try the stuff.
 
BodyWizard

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Hmm... Not what I was hoping for, but with the big hoopla going on in the Oratropin Info thread- in which it seems ppl are more bent towards talking about the mechanism through which it asserts its effects- I'm really thinking about hitting the tried and true route. As much as I would rather believe Ora could do exactly the same thing without having to pin...
yeah, guys have been playing 'what's the mechanism' since OT was released; not such a biggie - it's a suspension matrix w/ strong mucosal adhesion that increases membrane permeability & achieves full (95%+ ?) absorption within one hour (or something very much like that). Absorption is intended through the pharyngeal mucosa (back of throat and up to the roof of the mouth).

There's no reason to think that OT isn't a perfectly valid form of IGF augmentation: the technology makes sense and is perfectly valid, and field reports are overwhelmingly positive (if controversial). Most of the negative reports I've heard have been from people who only used one kit, but I suspect even a month's run is not sufficient for a trustworthy trial, as GH & IGF-1 are both reported to take 4-8 weeks to show results of their own; some (many?) people run them for months at a time as a deliberate long-term strategy.

I wonder if some "non-responders" have high endogenous GH levels: might that make them less responsive to augmentation, in the same way that an old man w/ no test will get a bigger boost from 10mg than a young man w/ plenty test would?
 
BodyWizard

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LOL...I forgot about that. 190lbs, limited prior experience with cycles of anything, naturally thin build. Just a normal guy getting back into lifting heavy, and I wouldn't mind helping my shoulders out with the potential "healing" benefits of igf.
I hear you - I'm only a couple years older, probably have similar concerns (got a bad shoulder myself).

I'm going to be starting a 7 month trial here in the next few days & running into July, starting w/ ectotropin, then hexatropin and finishing up w/ oratropin; I'll be logging it, so give it a look, ask questions, see what you think - then decide. All on my own dime: IBE has given me nothing except the chance to buy the stuff at a good price; it'll be a clean, honest & dispassionate trial
 

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Sounds great. Thanks again you guys for your input. I think I might give it at least 4 weeks with IBE, and if it doesn't seem like the cat's meow, I'll give MR a shot. ;)

I've got a bunch of hormones to use up, so now I guess the big question is if I should do the igf for a couple weeks at first, and then a couple weeks at the end...OR...for 4 weeks before, do about 8 weeks of PH's, and then follow it up with 2-4 weeks of Oratropin during PCT. Any suggestions on this?
 
BodyWizard

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well, there's the hypertrophy argument: GH/IGF-1 uniquely stimulates the creation of new muscle cells, so run it for 4-8 weeks (or more), then hit your anabolics to enlarge those cels;

and the bridge argument: GH/IGF-1 is great when coming off anabolics/ during PCT, so start it 2 weeks before the cycle's end & continue 2-6 weeks after as part of (not instead of) PCT;

and the mass quantities argument: GH/IGF-1 work(s) well with anabolics, so just run them together.

currently, I prefer to use door #1.

BTW - I mistook your post-count for your age: how old are you?
 

VES

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I like door #1 as well...hmm...Yeah, the best part in my eyes would be the potential for more muscle cells, so I guess it makes sense to use more before than after. I have the shoulders of a guy who didn't spend enough time doing warm up sets before launching into heavy bench when I was a bit younger, and if they benefit, all the better.
 
Grunt76

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FYI, I have had some pain at the acromion, you know the little bump on top of the shoulder where lots of ligaments attach. I injected IGF-1 right there. I mean, the needle was basically scraping the bone.

2 injections later my shoulder was like new. If your problem is deeper within the joint though, oratropin would be better than the injectible I believe.
 
BodyWizard

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did you lay off lifting, or certain lifts, after injecting?

how did your pain change between beginning & good-as-new? slowly lessening, or sudden shifts? did it change character over time, or just lessen?

details, man - we want DETAILS! :hammer:
 
MadJimF

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Sounds great. Thanks again you guys for your input. I think I might give it at least 4 weeks with IBE, and if it doesn't seem like the cat's meow, I'll give MR a shot. ;)
So just wondering, I have the same question as you did, are you going to run it at 20mcg or 40?
 

Neuromancer

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If you tried LR3 and it did nothing for you I would suggest you double your dose and try again. Some people don't respond well to the lower dosages. There are, as said before, some people that won't respond but imo this is a very small percentage of people.

And don't forget to up the protein. I would try to get at least 2g to 2.5g per lb of lbm. I have found that you really do need to eat a ton (protein especially) to get optimal results on lr3.
 
Grunt76

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did you lay off lifting, or certain lifts, after injecting?

how did your pain change between beginning & good-as-new? slowly lessening, or sudden shifts? did it change character over time, or just lessen?

details, man - we want DETAILS! :hammer:
Flat bench was my main offender for this pain. My first injection was the day after bench. The second one, 2-3 days later. I did not do the flat bench for about 10 days after that, as I Bench every other week.

After the first pinning, about 80% of the pain was gone 2 days later. That's when I did the second injection. 10 days later I bench, no pain. Bench heavier, no pain. After workout, no pain. Got back home, no pain. Next day, no pain. No pain. But I gots me my gains all the same. :D

If you tried LR3 and it did nothing for you I would suggest you double your dose and try again. Some people don't respond well to the lower dosages. There are, as said before, some people that won't respond but imo this is a very small percentage of people.
I totally agree, Neuromancer. I think the reason why some people complain that they "don't respond" is they look for an immediate increase in muscle size and almost-painful pumps. OK, I added some muscle size while on it, but got no pumps, but my point is that new cells can take quite a bit of time before showing their presence and that is misleading for those who are looking for immediate size.
 
BodyWizard

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cool beans, bro - so the pain just faded? over the course of a couple days? amazing!

on the expectations - yeah, it seems that too many times, people short-change themselves by expecting extreme results in short order; I imagine the gardener who plows under or abandons a a new-planted plot after days of 'no results' (instead of waiting for sun, water & TIME to work their magic & produce a nutritious & good-tasting crop) is no different from the impatient bros who abandon a plan, a routine or a supplement long before any real results could reasonably be expected.

Planning, patience and persistence produce consistent and dependable results.
 
Grunt76

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Talking about time and all... I just started p-GH, and being 38, I'm looking forward to some nice results. Have you tried GH products prior to your IGF-1 experience? IGF-1 must be pretty crazy at 54?
 
BodyWizard

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have I been sailing under false colors?

I have not done GH/GHS/IGF-1 to date; never meant to imply otherwise.

I AM preparing for a 7-month run of GHRP-6, starting with a month of Ectotropin & continuing for another 5 with Hexatropin - and finishing off w/ a month's worth of Oratropin. I'm hoping to begin tomorrow night, taking my first dose before bed.

then again, the more research I do into hexarelin, the less inclined I am to do the Ecto: from an anti-aging perspective, hexarelin is starting to sound like the magic bullet (I know, there are no magic bullets): I'll save a lot of this for the log, but just to mention one item, I found a study from Italy which concludes that GHRP-6 - and hexarelin most potently - restores normal GH release in the elderly.

I'm working on my initial log post now (or would be if I wasn't finding so much interesting info on hex!).

anyhow, only meant to pass on what I've learned: I'll pass on my experience as soon as I have some! :thumbsup:
 
BodyWizard

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sorry about the redundancy - totally forgot I told you about my upcoming tropin dance last night. I've had the last 8 days off sick so I've been face-down in planning & studying for this pretty much every minute I could make myself sit up - been working on one aspect or another of it for weeks (and some aspects much longer).

Obsessive? ME??? :toofunny: nah - I'm just persistent (or is it just an obsessive inability to quit?)....

Hope I'm not being a bore; I'll start my log today or tomorrow & get out of everyone elses's thread! :ntome:
 
Grunt76

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If I were you, and I'm not... I'd stack the Oratropin with the first month of hexatropin.

Are you also thinking about self-prescribed HRT? It would be about right... ;)
 
BodyWizard

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why stack the OT on the first month of hex?
(rather, what do you find compelling about that particular timing?)

this *IS* HRT, innit? yes, I hope to experience a good deal of repair & refit, but I also hope to see GH levels return to a more youthful norm.

If this goes like I want it to, I may have no need for TRT after it.
 

VES

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So just wondering, I have the same question as you did, are you going to run it at 20mcg or 40?
I think, based on a total unavailability of info from ppl who have done both- and can give us an idea of the difference- and since I have done neither, and so could not tell the difference if I wanted to, I will probably just do the 40mcg. I wish I could just go 20mcg and be happy, but I would wonder... It would be nice if IBE got on here and told us how he decided to go with 40mcg. It seems he has a lot of info on his "carrier", etc., he must have a reason for having chosen the 40mcg fixed dose.

Yeah, my shoulders have the "click", and if I do incline press, or shoulder press, my shoulders really give me sharp pains from somewhere pretty deep. If you put your hand on them and rotate my arm, it feels like the tendons are bumping the muscles around (is as close as I can describe it). This is a miracle formula if it made a difference there.

I'm not looking for igf to give me any pump at all- for that I have pre/post ban things in mind. I want the re-gen effects and cell adds. Thus, unless IBE jumps in here to tell me why 40mcg is the optimum dose, I will have to guess 40 comes loaded for a reason- but that alone is a pretty sad reason to use 40.
 
CROWLER

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I agree. It is like so many items. Some do well on a lower dose and some others just need a higher dose, then again some have no luck with their experiments on any size dose.



CROWLER
 
BodyWizard

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I'm pretty sure 40mcg == 2iu, which IIRC is agreed upon as a safe and effective starting dose.

Crowler, you'd know this better than I!
 

VES

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Well, thanks again...I appreciate the input of all those who gave it. Well, except for the guy who said igf receptors were in the gut- and that's why inj. was better than oratropin...

J/K ;)
 
Ubiquitous

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My first time, I ran 40mcg/d of LR3IGF-1 for 25 days.. good results.. it was during PCT. I gained in my calves, kept size from my AAS cycle.. leaned out.. good mood.. except for the clomid.. :)

Now I'm running 80mcg/d for 25 days concurrent with my AAS. :D I'll report my findings later on in the cycle forum.
 

VES

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Sweet- that will be a good way to test if twice as much gives twice the result...
 
Ubiquitous

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well it's not exactly a controlled experiment.. .I'm running an average of 937.5mg (375mg E3D) of Test a week, with 600mg EQ, and 50mg Tbol/day.. so I'm not really going to be able to differentiate the results.. ;)

but c'mon hyperplasia!!

i love that word.
 

Neuromancer

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well it's not exactly a controlled experiment.. .I'm running an average of 937.5mg (375mg E3D) of Test a week, with 600mg EQ, and 50mg Tbol/day.. so I'm not really going to be able to differentiate the results.. ;)

but c'mon hyperplasia!!

i love that word.
I shall also comment on my ,ehemm.... slightly.... , higher than that dose during my upcoming PCT. :D
 

VES

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Are you guys leaning toward Oratropin more for PCT or as a pre-cycle cell production mechanism?
 

VES

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Ah yeah..LOL... Just takes the $... I wonder how long after the first 30 day "saturation" period your body is good to go again?
 
Grunt76

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There is very little info on that. But some people are reporedly doing well while being ON half the time 1 month ON, 1 month OFF. Lucky mofos with all the $. AFAIK those guys are using smaller doses, 40-50mcg. I haven't seen one do that protocol with 100mcg. Maybe money IS a concern after all. ;)

I forget which board I saw that on though... If you search around you might bump into one of those threads... AR, anabolex, BB come to mind.
 

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