Ostarine - Partially suppressive

[Jaduar]

Hey guys,

This is my first post on this thread. Given there is very little information on ostarine available, I'll post my experiences and my post cycle information to add to the growing body of info on this new class of drug.

Ok. To start with I have 99% pure powder ostarine in gelatin capsules. I commenced on 6mg mane for 4 weeks, followed by 9mg mane for 12 weeks.

In regards to the positive effects. I definitely noticed increased strength, especially lower body, improved endurance and markedly improved recovery time, allowing me to ride and go to the gym more frequently. I also had a noticeable increase in lean muscle mass, with a loss of body fat.

The side effects I noted were dry mouth, very occassional hot flushes, a decrease in acne, slight decreased libido, increased appetite and increased fatigue. Towards the last few weeks of the cycle I noticed my testes felt slightly softer.

I unfortunately did not get any pre-cycle bloods done, although on the same token I didn't see the need as I've never touched AAS or any substance that may suppress the HPTA axis.

My post-cycle bloods taken late evening (NB. There is always a slight dip in testosterone levels at this time) 3 days post ceasing ostarine are shown below.

Serum GH 8.4mU/L (0.2-20.0)
Serum IGF-1 23.1nmol/L (15-43)
Serum Prolactin 305mU/L (53-360)
Serum LH 4.0 (0.8-7.6)
Serum FSH 2.4 (0.7-11)
Serum B-Estradiol 80pmol/L (<206)
Serum Testo: 3.6nmol/L (8.5-55)

Interpretation of these results indicate marked secondary hypogonadism. Although I did not have baseline bloods, I'll be repeating them in probably a fortnights time. I hope things have largely resolved my then. It's been 1.5wks since I ceased the ostarine, and my testes have definitely returned to pre-ostarine size and texture, and hair growth on my legs, face has started speeding up again.

My initial impression of ostarine. Given it is a propionamide SARM. With higher doses for prolonged periods (>6wks) it most definitely will have some suppressive effects on the HPTA axis. It must be remembered that in the Phase II and III studies 3mg was the maximum dose used for 12 weeks, and this was in elderly males with cancer cachexia and post-menopausal women. Both groups would have significantly lower testosterone levels than a 28 year old male such as myself. Obviously there will be marked individual variation, hence why the drug has not finished it's rigorous testing required for approval. I'm also aware that for a lot of bodybuilders this suppression probably is nowhere near that achieved with high doses of AAS.

I will use ostarine again, but only for short cycles 4-6 weeks and I'll be using IGF-1 at the same time, and will probably get interim blood results, and if required I'll use a bit of HCG during the cycle as well. I'll report back with my followup results early into the new year.

Cheers,
JD

 

[Movin_weight]

Thanks for the post, I had a feeling there would be some type of suppression involved

 

[ModernLats]

Fantastic post, I will be running a cycle in the near future and will post bloods also after stopping my cycle. Thank you for your detailed and well written post sir.

 

[SolidusSnake]

I didnt have any of the things happen to me when I was on osta..

 

[Movin_weight]

This should prob also be moved to the anabolics thread where it will get more traffic

 

[Urban Monk]

I wish all posts/threads were this informative. Great information.

 

[A12B]

Hi, have you made any gains in the cycle?

 

[SolidusSnake]

I still say it aint suppressive.. my testes were getting more full and dense while I was on osta

 

[Movin_weight]

I still say it aint suppressive.. my testes were getting more full and dense while I was on osta

Did u have bloodwork?? Size of ur nuts doesn't indicate shutdown.

 

[SolidusSnake]

Did u have bloodwork?? Size of ur nuts doesn't indicate shutdown.

I am getting blood work after my tropinol run.
That was for PCT use and it worked ok..

another guy threw up bloods a while back and his LH was high and test levels were normal.. and this was right after PCT..

 

[Movin_weight]

Ya but he didn't have baseline done, could have been slight suppression for him. I mean if it's that mild I would still use it during pct. Formestane can cause mild suppression at higher doses

 

[SolidusSnake]

Ya but he didn't have baseline done, could have been slight suppression for him. I mean if it's that mild I would still use it during pct. Formestane can cause mild suppression at higher doses

Ya, at "higher doses.." anything below 60mg of form wont do jack to hpta

 

[SOLARUS]

WHOOOAAHHHHH you need to revise your thread title until you get those baseline (aka long-after-cycle) numbers back. you could have very easily had hypogonadism before you started. seems to me you are on the fence between primary and secondary, btw...your testes should be able to take that LH/FSH and make more T than you're making...

anyway, you can NOT make the assertion you're making based on the test data you acquired. not even "brologically" where one can make sweeping assumptions. before and after is absolutely critical.

 

[SolidusSnake]

WHOOOAAHHHHH you need to revise your thread title until you get those baseline (aka long-after-cycle) numbers back. you could have very easily had hypogonadism before you started. seems to me you are on the fence between primary and secondary, btw...your testes should be able to take that LH/FSH and make more T than you're making...

anyway, you can NOT make the assertion you're making based on the test data you acquired. not even "brologically" where one can make sweeping assumptions. before and after is absolutely critical.

This right here^^^^
And suppression is cause by something being androgenic, or raising estro or prolactin.. Not by anabolism... Osta is not androgenic at all, does not raise estro or prolactin, so it makes sense for it not to be suppressive..

 

[Movin_weight]

Lol you guys are hoping too much... When someone says it's not suppressive your immediately on there balls, but first thread that shows bloodwork with mild suppression and your flipping out.

I have yet to see bloodwork with baseline and post results yet, if I'm wrong let me know. And if it's not androgenic then why are people reporting mood and libido changes???

The op ran Ostarine for 16 weeks, yeah he could have hypogonadism prior, but since he has never used aas, it's pretty likely it was caused by Ostarine

Don't be ignorant and ignore someones findings just because they aren't in accordance with what you want to see

 

[Movin_weight]

Ya, at "higher doses.." anything below 60mg of form wont do jack to hpta

And the recommended dose is 100mg daily???

 

[Chubbinmuffin]

And the recommended dose is 100mg daily???

Slight suppression after 16 weeks doesn't sound that bad. Better than orals shutting you down in 2 weeks.

Thought osta's rec. dose was 12.5-25mg a day.

 

[SolidusSnake]

And the recommended dose is 100mg daily???

Thats a base dose.. At that dose you could reduce your estro near 40%.
And you get great androgenic effects at that dose including endurance, strength and leaning out..

What I do is use less than 60mg so I can reduce estro somewhat, lower shbg and water weight..

At 200mg ED, you get pronounced androgenic and nice anabolic effects.. 200mg is where it starts to get suppressive and its a mild suppression..

In the clinical trials of mk-2866, it is said to be non suppressive..
I was on osta, did 12.5, 15, 25 and 50mg doses. My mood did not change, I had no strength increases, no libido change..

I did lean out and add a few lbs of lean mass.. thats all..

 

[SOLARUS]

Lol you guys are hoping too much... When someone says it's not suppressive your immediately on there balls, but first thread that shows bloodwork with mild suppression and your flipping out.

I have yet to see bloodwork with baseline and post results yet, if I'm wrong let me know. And if it's not androgenic then why are people reporting mood and libido changes???

The op ran Ostarine for 16 weeks, yeah he could have hypogonadism prior, but since he has never used aas, it's pretty likely it was caused by Ostarine

Don't be ignorant and ignore someones findings just because they aren't in accordance with what you want to see

i have zero agenda here. i dont care one way or other about its suppressive capacity....so i dunno who this "you guys" is that acted in some biased way previously.

and you're pretty much 100% wrong. hypogonadism isnt that uncommon. to automatically assume he wasnt is, to use your term, ignorant.

what i find interesting is that his LH/FSH arent low...if ostarine binds to ARs and provides negative feedback, you'd think the HPTA would reduce output of these. might be a SHBG involvement or PR/ER binding...

 

[Movin_weight]

i have zero agenda here. i dont care one way or other about its suppressive capacity....so i dunno who this "you guys" is that acted in some biased way previously.

and you're pretty much 100% wrong. hypogonadism isnt that uncommon. to automatically assume he wasnt is, to use your term, ignorant.

what i find interesting is that his LH/FSH arent low...if ostarine binds to ARs and provides negative feedback, you'd think the HPTA would reduce output of these. might be a SHBG involvement or PR/ER binding...

I'm not taking either side here, I'm simply saying there is a chance that Ostarine caused the suppression, and to dismiss that is ignorant. LH will respond immediately once androgen levels drop and GnRH is activated. He was off 3 days which may or may not be long enough for the hpta to begin recovering.

Lol and what do u mean I'm 100% wrong... The
Percent of hypogonadal men at age 30 is waaaay less than not, so not sure what your getting at. Yes it's possible but still like I said, I have yet to see any data showing pre and post bloodwork using bodybuilding doses. So prove it wrong with data, or accept the fact that this is as reputable as anything else that has been posted

 

[Imeniaan]

truly impossible to tell, if you dont have baseline parametres, so your title is unjustified

 

[Jaduar]

Thanks for the comments everyone. In retrospect, I would have done baseline bloods. Hypogonadism in an athlete under 30 that has never touched AAS and has no pre-existing medical conditions is very rare, and given I do a power sport even more unlikely. I doubt I'd be full-squatting 175kg with ridiculously low testosterone levels. I think it's a little harsh to say my title is unjustified, this is just my experience with ostarine.

When I post bloods in a couple of weeks time it should be interesting. Each day, I'm feeling a difference since being off it.

 

[hugeswole]

Any shutdown when you stopped? What do you mean "feeling a difference"?

 

[SOLARUS]

Percent of hypogonadal men at age 30 is waaaay less than not, so not sure what your getting at. Yes it's possible but still like I said, I have yet to see any data showing pre and post bloodwork using bodybuilding doses. So prove it wrong with data, or accept the fact that this is as reputable as anything else that has been posted

re-read your own words - you dont make sense. lack of data PREVENTS the creation of conclusive proof. the burden of data-based proof is on the one attempting to confidently assert a position, not on those who are very logically skeptical because there is insufficient evidence.

anyway...you are right about one thing...the odds are not very good that the OP was/is hypogonadic. if i had to bet one way or the other, i'd say that osta is suppressive....but i do have plenty of doubts, besides the aforementioned, given that a) we dont really know what the OP is/was doing, drug-wise, and b) the OP is apparently not a native english speaker and may be consequently mistranslating something

can anybody guess why OP's prolactin is so high?

OP - why are you not doing PCT? (i assume that, because you didnt mention it)

 

[SolidusSnake]

If his prolactin or e2 is high, that is what may be causing HPTA minor suppression.. Bingo..
Use a dopamine agonist and and mild AI and I bet your problems will be gone.

 

[Movin_weight]

re-read your own words - you dont make sense. lack of data PREVENTS the creation of conclusive proof. the burden of data-based proof is on the one attempting to confidently assert a position, not on those who are very logically skeptical because there is insufficient evidence.

anyway...you are right about one thing...the odds are not very good that the OP was/is hypogonadic. if i had to bet one way or the other, i'd say that osta is suppressive....but i do have plenty of doubts, besides the aforementioned, given that a) we dont really know what the OP is/was doing, drug-wise, and b) the OP is apparently not a native english speaker and may be consequently mistranslating something

can anybody guess why OP's prolactin is so high?

OP - why are you not doing PCT? (i assume that, because you didnt mention it)

You only highlighted part of my post. I know what is said, and it makes perfect sense. I said prove it wrong with data OR.... "accept the fact that it is as reputable as anything else That has been posted about it"

I'm not claiming the OP's statement is true, but it should be viewed as just as reputable statement as any of the posts discussing how Ostarine is not suppressive.

But posters in this forum simply don't want to except that Ostarine may be suppressive, therefore all this subjective nonsense

You don't see people arguing in threads with bloodwork results claiming Osta doesn't cause suppression???

 

[Movin_weight]

If his prolactin or e2 is high, that is what may be causing HPTA minor suppression.. Bingo..
Use a dopamine agonist and and mild AI and I bet your problems will be gone.

Yeah could be.....'or! Osta dosed at 4-5x the tested dose for 16 weeks may cause minor suppression! :dunno:

 

[Noumenon]

I'd say it's more likely than not the Ostarine that caused the suppression. One has to remember, the selectivity that Ostarine was developed for was mainly aimed towards isolating the anabolic effects on muscle and bone tissue without incurring any type of prostate growth. Suppression of the HPTA is a secondary issue and isn't what the pharmaceutical companies were looking for in terms of developing the medicine that wouldn't be contra-indicated in the treatment of, say old men, who would be prone to malignant prostate enlargement. When it comes down to it, SARMs are only selective to a certain degree, and until we know to what degree Ostarine is selective---an obviously dose dependent issue--we should take caution as a community and hold Ostarine up to the highest standards before we encourage people to use it as if there were no risks. The most responsible thing here to do, I think, is to regard Ostarine as very possibly suppressive until it's otherwise proven, and have other people go into full-well knowing the extent of the risk.

 

[SolidusSnake]

Yeah could be.....'or! Osta dosed at 4-5x the tested dose for 16 weeks may cause minor suppression! :dunno:

he did 9mg which is 3x the dose..

Until someone gets before and after test levels, one cannot say it is suppressive or isnt.. period..

 

[Movin_weight]

I'd say it's more likely than not the Ostarine that caused the suppression. One has to remember, the selectivity that Ostarine was developed for was mainly aimed towards isolating the anabolic effects on muscle and bone tissue without incurring any type of prostate growth. Suppression of the HPTA is a secondary issue and isn't what the pharmaceutical companies were looking for in terms of developing the medicine that wouldn't be contra-indicated in the treatment of, say old men, who would be prone to malignant prostate enlargement. When it comes down to it, SARMs are only selective to a certain degree, and until we know to what degree Ostarine is selective---an obviously dose dependent issue--we should take caution as a community and hold Ostarine up to the highest standards before we encourage people to use it as if there were no risks. The most responsible thing here to do, I think, is to regard Ostarine as very possibly suppressive until it's otherwise proven, and have other people go into full-well knowing the extent of the risk.

Very well said

 

[Movin_weight]

he did 9mg which is 3x the dose..

Until someone gets before and after test levels, one cannot say it is suppressive or isnt.. period..

I agree 100%

 

[Jaduar]

In response to Solarus. English is my first language, I'm Australian. I've been a doctor for a number of years as well. Well to start with, I didn't anticipate the suppression, if I did I would have been taking HCG during it or ran a shorter cycle or lower dose, so the answer is, I'm not taking PCT, because I feel my test level will have returned to normal in a couple of weeks, based on the level of suppression. My prolactin level is within the normal range. There is marked diurnal variation in most hormones as well. If you want accuracy then you must have blood taken at the same time on a number of occassions, the main aim is to look for marked aberrations.

 

[Asgard1913]

a doctor should know better than to make academically unsound assertions based on incomplete data. Seen just as much to suggest that it *isn't* suppressive.

 

[OnTheRoadTo]

You mentioned repeating the bloodwork; have you?

 

[Jaduar]

I'm repeating the bloodwork next week. I'll post as soon as I have the results.

 

[schwellington]

also keep in mind that just because ONE persons bloods show suppression is too little to go off of, just as my bloods which showed no suppression is to little to go off of, and yes i had before and after bloods done before anyone asks

 

[Movin_weight]

also keep in mind that just because ONE persons bloods show suppression is too little to go off of, just as my bloods which showed no suppression is to little to go off of, and yes i had before and after bloods done before anyone asks

What were your pre/post readings, I think I remembered seein them in another thread but forgot.

 

[schwellington]

pre test was 515


post test was 695

your probably asking yourself how this happend?

I used ostarine in my pct and got bloods done right after pct


pct was clomid

 

[BigBlackGuy]

I unfortunately did not get any pre-cycle bloods done, although on the same token I didn't see the need as I've never touched AAS or any substance that may suppress the HPTA axis.

We'll have to wait and see when he gets new bloods taken. Without baseline, there's no point. Our baseline at this time are the immediate after-cycle blood work papers.

I didn't see the need

Now you'll never know what they were before using AAS.

I've never touched AAS or any substance that may suppress the HPTA axis.

Lots of people haven't, and they are messed up anyway. So this doesn't prove much except that we can't rely on your bloods for sh*t until you get more done after PCT.

 

[jaydollars]

Well bros I am running osta for 8 weeks and I have baseline bloods, I really hope to get bloods done right after but it is tuff to see the doctor with my schedule of work and night class, only hormone I get checked is T and then lipids liver and all the other junk, this is a standalone run too, so maybe my results will shed some light on these theories, but it's gonna be a while since I'm only on week 3

 

[jaydollars]

Also running it at 12.5 mgs/day

 

[Movin_weight]

Also running it at 12.5 mgs/day

Look forward to seeing your results

 

[Jaduar]

Lots of people haven't, and they are messed up anyway. So this doesn't prove much except that we can't rely on your bloods for sh*t until you get more done after PCT.

Do you have any evidence to justify this claim? Non-drug induced hypogonadism is very rare. Please quote some statistics or epidemiological studies if you're going to make broad incorrect comments such as this.

People seem to forget I provided a constructive, informative anecdotal post. I by no means have stated it's suppressive in everyone, such as those already suppressed (ie. on PCT), or with shorter cycles etc... If only RCT's were posted about drugs on this board... well there would be no posts on any drugs.

 

[Movin_weight]

BUMP on bloodwork

 

[armanm75]

Hi everyone and thx jaduar and all for this great thread. I've been running s4 (60-70mgs) for the last 3 weeks along with cjc1295 and ghrp6 (50 and 100mcg's)and after i got hooked up on these osta threads for the last 3 days (should have been studying) i ordered two bottles which shout be here in 2-3 days...
My question is should i cut running s4 and change it to osta, ( i ve two full botles of s4 as well, and o live that sh*#)or since it takes 10 days for osta to kick in keep s4 on for another 10 days or last option, run them together like 20mgs osta and 40mgs sarms or smt. My goal is to use osta for bulking to gain 15-20pounds if possible with those 2 bottles and then cut with remaining sarms s4.
Any opinions or help will be appreciated, Thx

 

[schwellington]

Hi everyone and thx jaduar and all for this great thread. I've been running s4 (60-70mgs) for the last 3 weeks along with cjc1295 and ghrp6 (50 and 100mcg's)and after i got hooked up on these osta threads for the last 3 days (should have been studying) i ordered two bottles which shout be here in 2-3 days...
My question is should i cut running s4 and change it to osta, ( i ve two full botles of s4 as well, and o live that sh*#)or since it takes 10 days for osta to kick in keep s4 on for another 10 days or last option, run them together like 20mgs osta and 40mgs sarms or smt. My goal is to use osta for bulking to gain 15-20pounds if possible with those 2 bottles and then cut with remaining sarms s4.
Any opinions or help will be appreciated, Thx

you wont gain 15-20lbs from osta


your going to gain with two bottles probably 12 which is epic because you will keep ALL of it. Im going to run a stack during my off time from steroids it looks like this

s4-75 mgs till bottle runs out- 2 bottles
osta-25mgs till bottle runs out-2 bottles


going to be recomping

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

you wont gain 15-20lbs from osta


your going to gain with two bottles probably 12 which is epic because you will keep ALL of it. Im going to run a stack during my off time from steroids it looks like this

s4-75 mgs till bottle runs out- 2 bottles
osta-25mgs till bottle runs out-2 bottles


going to be recomping

Ur gonna go blind!!!

 

[schwellington]

Ur gonna go blind!!!

nahhh rumors vision sides go away after ceasing use. And ostarine doesnt produce side effects that effect vision.



its epic for sure....i know a kid who ran it at 150mgs lol i was like :wtf:

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

nahhh rumors vision sides go away after ceasing use. And ostarine doesnt produce side effects that effect vision.



its epic for sure....i know a kid who ran it at 150mgs lol i was like :wtf:

I read about someone doing that...I agree with the whole :wtf: lol

 

[armanm75]

you wont gain 15-20lbs from osta


your going to gain with two bottles probably 12 which is epic because you will keep ALL of it. Im going to run a stack during my off time from steroids it looks like this

s4-75 mgs till bottle runs out- 2 bottles
osta-25mgs till bottle runs out-2 bottles


going to be recomping

Yea schwell, i guess u r right about 15-20 lb being a dream, but i ll take 12lb anyday, since we both have 2 bottles each of osta and s4, i took this as a sign of bodybuilding gods and decided to join u in ur cycle with more moderate values since u have about 15lb on me. I m thinking something like starting with 30mgs s4 and 25mgs osta and changing it to 60mgs s4 and 15 mgs osta twords the end.
Good luck with ur stack and please keep us informed...