IGF DES 1,3 questions
- 12-03-2010, 12:18 AM
IGF DES 1,3 questions
I have spent some time trying to research the DES version of igf. I have used lr3 multiple times but can't seem to find any info on DES. I tried to search here. I do know it's a variation with an altered amino profile that is produced naturally at certain times. What I can't find is an average dose. I can't find info on reconstitution. A site that sells it claims it's stable in .06% AA for 3 weeks. I thought AA was only for lr3 because of the lr3. Does anyone have any experience with DES, and does anyone know the recomendation for reconstitution and dosage? I typically use 40mcg with lr3. I have read all the info on it's profile so not really looking for that type of info. Thanks for any help.
- 12-03-2010, 05:28 PM
12-03-2010, 07:49 PM
12-04-2010, 01:35 AM
12-04-2010, 01:36 AM
And if anyone else has any input feel free to chime in. It can't hurt to gather as much input as possible.
12-04-2010, 10:25 AM
12-04-2010, 11:30 AM
Lol. Trust me, if I didn't get deals on all this stuff I wouldn't be using it either. Luckily for me I got good amounts of all kinds of peps and aas at the same time. I'm not really expecting anything more from DES than I do with igf but I figured it was worth trying and changing things up.
12-04-2010, 06:12 PM
12-04-2010, 09:03 PM
12-04-2010, 10:41 PM
12-04-2010, 11:02 PM
12-06-2010, 12:22 PM
Solubility: It is recommended to reconstitute the lyophilized IGF-I Des(1-3) in 100mM Acetic acid not less than 100μg/ml, which can then be further diluted to other aqueous solutions.
Stability: Lyophilized IGF-I des(1-3) although stable at room temperature for 3 weeks, should be stored desiccated below -18°C. Upon reconstitution IGF1 des-1-3 should be stored at 4°C between 2-7 days and for future use below -18°C.
For long term storage it is recommended to add a carrier protein (0.1% HSA or BSA).
Please prevent freeze-thaw cycles.
Pulled from http://www.prospecbio.com/IGF-I_des1-3_Human_2_20
12-12-2010, 03:00 AM
Here's some info I found on DES IGF. Think this is all over the net but posted in case anyone is interested.
DES (1-3) IGF-1 (NOT THE SAME AS IGF-1)
Most athletes have heard of IGF-1 (insulin like growth factor-1) and the amazing anabolic effects it has been reported to have upon Protein based tissue such as muscle. Des (1-3) IGF-1 is over 10 times (1000%) more anabolic than IGF-1. Now that is amazing!!
IGF-1 is actually produced from both insulin and growth hormone in the Liver and other tissues. IGF-1 is made up of 70 amino acids in a chain. Well, when a clever chemist removes the last 3 amino acids in the IGF-1 chain (the N-terminal tri-peptide) it becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 and 1000% plus more anabolic. Why? IGF-1 circulates through our blood stream and tissue 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Unfortunately, most of the IGF-1 is inactive because it is bound by another Protein called (get this) IGF-1 Binding Protein-3, or IGF-1-BP-3 for short. Since bound hormones can not fit into and trigger a receptor-site, the majority of circulating and muscle IGF-1 can not trigger an anabolic stimulus. Like tons of cellulite in a o movie (who watches those?) there is little good stuff happening. However, when IGF-1 is altered and becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 the binding Protein IGF-1-BP-3 can not bind to it and it is totally active. Another reason Des (1-3) IGF-1 is so potent is its unique ability to fit into lactic acid altered IGF-1 receptor sites. (YUP) When we train we burn carbohydrates as a fuel to make cellular ATP. When cells switch to this ATP pathway, the by-product is Lactic Acid. This is of course the cause of most of the burn we feel during intense or higher rep sets. Well, the lactic acid build-up is called acidosis, and it destroys the shape of some receptor-sites for period of time. Therefore some anabolic/anti-catabolic hormones have difficulty merging with their respective receptor- site and triggering a response (such as even unbound IGF-1). Not so with Des (1-3) IGF- 1, the super growth factor. It fits into the IGF-1 receptor-site even after acidosis. Des (1- 3) IGF-1 is unbound, over 10 times more potent than IGF-1, and it picks receptor-site locks. Too bad it has only a few minute active-life.
Did you know that our body's make Des (1-3) IGF-1 naturally? Most un-informed individuals claim other wise, but it is true. When an athlete trains lactic acid builds up in muscle tissue. As we know, there is always IGF-1 / GH present in the blood stream and tissues (including muscle) from prior work-outs and other metabolic factors. That lactic acid burn triggers IGF-1/GH secretion from both prior and present work-outs. Unfortunately, lactic acid destroys some of the IGF-1 present in muscles being trained. But wait, this is good too!
Lactic acid also cuts (truncates) the last 3 amino acids off the 70 amino acid chain of "some" of the surviving IGF-1 and creates Des (I-3) IGF-1. So acidosis increases GH/IGF-1 production in the Liver, "unbinds" IGF-1 locally in the muscle being trained (burned), destroys some of the IGF-1, and converts some IGF-1 into Des (I-3) IGF-1. Huh, good deal. And the synthetic form of this super anabolic stuff is beginning to show up on the black market more frequently.
The Protein binds less well to IGF-binding proteins and is generally approximately 10-fold more potent than IGF-1 at stimulating hypertrophy and proliferation of cultured cells. REFERENCES: Ballard FJ Des(1-3)IGF-I: a truncated form of insulin-like growth factor-I. International Journal of Biochemistry and Cell Biology 28(10): 1085-1087 (1996)
01-27-2011, 09:12 AM
i suspect that the lactic acid thing is completely made up
anyway all that there really is out there on this igf-1 variant is that it is ten times as potent as igf-1 in cell cultures. we are complicated organisms however not cell cultures so who knows what the stuff will or will not do for humans. probably just like the R3
02-01-2011, 06:21 PM
So I've been away for a while DES is definately stronger and they way to go with igf. I used 20mcg three times a day. There is a huge difference between the two. With DES, I couldn't even brush my teeth without getting a pump. Very vascular. Good stuff. I will still use lr3 until my stash is gone but then it's DES for now on. I was also able to eat high carbs and stay lean and only lost 2lbs during pct. It had to have helped
02-02-2011, 08:38 AM
her 2res4, i know you said high carbs, but how high and when with this? Just trying to see if timing is diff than with lr3. I see many going pre wkout with this, which I am assuming means they are not eating for at least an hr after the shot, and maybe not for an hr or so before. I personally hate working out on a stomach full of carbs, makes me sluggish, I like to eat an hour to an hour and a half before working out, just wondering if this stuff fits that schedule. thanks for the update
02-07-2011, 02:43 AM
02-07-2011, 09:52 AM
02-07-2011, 12:45 PM
02-07-2011, 12:49 PM
02-07-2011, 01:09 PM
02-07-2011, 03:33 PM
the trick with the lr3 and des i believe is finding some way to deliver it in a depot fashion. that is, to deliver it so it stays put at its injection site and slowly releases in a time dependent fashion. That may end up resulting in anabolic effects in the surrounding muscle tissue where it was injected
02-07-2011, 03:49 PM
02-07-2011, 04:05 PM
02-07-2011, 07:54 PM
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