PapaPump's CJC-1295/GHRP-6 6-month Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    As you state, that is how "bacteriastatic agent" is defined and BA is often called a "bacteriastatic agent".

    However is is also a disinfectant. At the moment I can not find the study that tested .9% BA on bacteria and found that it took 3 days to kill all bacteria. These types of studies were done to support use in human aqueous solutions & oil based solutions as well.

    For the moment here is a snippet from page 359 of the "The Veterinary Formulary" by Yolande Bishop, British Veterinary Association which states that BA may be used as a disinfectant for cows teats.

    Thanks, Dat!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo4Fun View Post
    huh huh huh...dat said "teat"...sorry that is my best Beavis and Butthead imitation...

    Good info as always dat...i've been letting my reconstituted CJC sit for a few days and Im going to try it again...luckily these huge knots (they got damn big) on my stomach are going down and the redness and heat has gone away...
    SoCo, what brand of pins are you using? I've had a problem similar to yours and I just switched brands yesterday. No post-injection welt today!
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    I'm using walgreen's brand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo4Fun View Post
    I'm using walgreen's brand.
    I had been using some cheap Easy-Touch pins for over a month and experiencing red, itchy welts on my abdomen following every injection. My source said that he was aware of others with the same problem who fixed it by simply switching to Terumo or BD pins. I thought that I'd give this a try before reconstituting with sterile water, since the latter seems a bit risky to me. So far, so good!
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    The odd thing about it is that I'm not having problems with the 3 GHRP-6 shots I do a day...only with the CJC...it could be because I just reconn'd the CJC so we will see after the shot tonight...
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo4Fun View Post
    I'm using walgreen's brand.
    I have Terumo 28.5ga 0.5cc & Ultra Comfort Monoject 29ga 0.5cc. The 29ga. pins slide in so nice
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo4Fun View Post
    The odd thing about it is that I'm not having problems with the 3 GHRP-6 shots I do a day...only with the CJC...it could be because I just reconn'd the CJC so we will see after the shot tonight...
    That is odd. Do you by chance take a greater volume of GHRP-6 in each shot? If so, maybe it's too much BA for you to handle at once. If not, I hope letting the solution sit per Dat's instructions solves the problem for you!

    It may also be worth looking into new pins like those that Papa noted. I've noticed a huge difference between my cheapo (30ga) and Terumo (29ga) pins. Oddly enough, the latter slide in much more easily.
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    BTW guys, I have not taken any CJC or GHRP since yesterday morning. None today either. I feel so much better...no high blood pressure! Love not having that freaking headache. I will do my "500 mcg" shot of one of the vials. But you know there is a dilemma at hand, correct? If I don't know the true mg/vial, how am I supposed to know how much do draw out? I will be pulling from 1mL (each vial will be reconned w/1mL BW). I will standardize that part at least.

    I will give the supplier the benefit of the doubt and assume the products were labeled correctly. Now, with that assumption, I plan to draw 25 units (25 ticks) from the assumed "CJC-1295" vial. That will yield either: A) 500mcg (CJC) or B) 1,250mcg (GHRP-6). Whether it's CJC or GHRP, I won't know unless there's a "flushing" feeling (CJC) or some other feeling from mega dosing GHRP-6 (????).

    Dat, is there any issue w/dosing potentially that much GHRP-6? I know it's way above the usual dose.

    EDIT: My other option is to dose so that my max mcg will be 500mcg and that will have me pulling 10IUs which is either: 500mcg or 200mcg. Again, it could be CJC or GHRP...can't be sure.

    Any comments?
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    I havnt done either.... so take this with agrain of salt but from what Ive read, GHRP-6 at that high a dose may lead to tingling in the extremities and increased hunger.... Def think you should look for flushing or no flushing though considering Im not sure if the tingles can come with CJC as well....
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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    Dat, is there any issue w/dosing potentially that much GHRP-6? I know it's way above the usual dose.

    EDIT: My other option is to dose so that my max mcg will be 500mcg and that will have me pulling 10IUs which is either: 500mcg or 200mcg. Again, it could be CJC or GHRP...can't be sure.

    Any comments?
    I'm going to look back in Dat's thread, but it seems that I've read that dosing more than about 3mcgs of ghrp per kilo of body weight at once(within the 2 and a half hours of off time that Dat mentioned), starts to become a waste. Meaning, if your body can't utilize the substance, how could it possibly effect you harmfully? Wouldn't it just dissipate? Not stealing your question Dat, just chiming in.

    I can speak personally though, and say that 200mcgs of cjc hasn't yet given me the "flush" feeling. I'm positive my stuff is legit as well. Assuming there would be no damage done if you did megadose on the ghrp, I'd stick with pulling 25 units. I don't post a lot around here, but I am a chronic reader. Flushing is by far the most prominent, and consistently seen side effect between the two peptides that I've observed from reading other's posts. I definitely agree on this being your best bet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    BTW guys, I have not take any CJC or GHRP since yesterday morning. None today either. I feel so much better...no high blood pressure! Love not having that freaking headache.
    Do you think that starting with a really low dose and gradually increasing it to your desired level might help your body adjust? I'm just wondering, since I know some people have problems with GH when they start with 4-6 i.u. every day, but when they back down to 2 i.u. and work up slowly they eliminate--or at least reduce the intensity of--the side effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
    Do you think that starting with a really low dose and gradually increasing it to your desired level might help your body adjust? I'm just wondering, since I know some people have problems with GH when they start with 4-6 i.u. every day, but when they back down to 2 i.u. and work up slowly they eliminate--or at least reduce the intensity of--the side effects.
    That certainly is a good idea. After I figure out which vials are which, I may start off at lower dosages to see if I can avoid/reduce those sides in the beginning. Cause damn, those headaches suck all day and night long.
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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    Dat, is there any issue w/dosing potentially that much GHRP-6? I know it's way above the usual dose.
    No issues, especially as a one off.

    Your body won't be able to use that entire dose by a long long shot BUT prolactin & cortisol could rise fairly high for a short period of time. Plus the "hunger effect" may be even more pronounced due primarily to leptin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    No issues, especially as a one off.

    Your body won't be able to use that entire dose by a long long shot BUT prolactin & cortisol could rise fairly high for a short period of time. Plus the "hunger effect" may be even more pronounced due primarily to leptin.
    Very good, thank you.

    Anyone have recommendations on how to best counter any potential spikes in prolac and/or cortisol? Please keep recommendations on the legal side (no Rx). Thanks everyone!

    Note: As soon as I have a plan for dealing w/prolac & cortisol, I will do the "500mcg" dose. I just don't want to find myself in an ugly situation w/o a remedy in hand.
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    prolactin: b-6 (p-5-p), L-dopa and nolvadex.
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    Here's a thread by TripDog regarding Prolactin & Cortisol and GHRP-6 (quite good): Ghrp-6, prolactin, and cortisol
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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    Very good, thank you.

    Anyone have recommendations on how to best counter any potential spikes in prolac and/or cortisol? Please keep recommendations on the legal side (no Rx). Thanks everyone!

    Note: As soon as I have a plan for dealing w/prolac & cortisol, I will do the "500mcg" dose. I just don't want to find myself in an ugly situation w/o a remedy in hand.
    I would not be too concerned over a one time higher dose of GHRP-6. Any significant increase for such a short duration will not bet detrimental to you in the long run. It would be different if you were constantly elevating both throughout a longer term.
    On that note...

    I like PS (Phosphatydilserine) the best for Cortisol control. Min of 800mg/day, but I tend to go with 1g (normally just in PCT or when low cal/Cutting). I personally do not like messing with 11BetaHSD-1 for cortisol control.
    PS actually works on the hypothalamus affecting CRH and pituitary ACTH output.
    This actually makes me wonder right now if the method of action of PS would be efficient on this level of the axis as GHRP will exhibit its counter action this level as well.
    I am not sure if just blocking the exess cortisol conversion at the 11BHSD-1, from the GHRP mediated ACTH increase, would be the better route to go.

    Anyhow, for PRL you could go with Cabergoline, which is Rx as Dostinex, BUT non RX if bought for Research. Its up to you how you define not wanting the non RX route
    Best herbal/vitamin would be L-dopa (Mucana) or 1-Carboxy even though I believe they are the same (Lets not debate this one as its been overdone).
    I would also add a good dose of EGCG and EGC from Green Tea as it is has been shown they are inhibitors of dopa-decarboxylase. You definitely do not want peripheral conversion of large amounts of L-dopa into dopamine as it will then not make it past the BBB and will exert its side effects systemically. (Last thing you are wanting right now is more BP issues I assume).
    Also, other than that P-5-P (pyridoxal 5 phosphate) is great. The active coenzyme form of B6 (pyridoxine hcl) which will not cause the sides of higher doses of B6.

    Sorry for the rant.

    Take Care.

    PS- I still do not think you need anything for this
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobaslaw View Post
    I would not be too concerned over a one time higher dose of GHRP-6. Any significant increase for such a short duration will not bet detrimental to you in the long run. It would be different if you were constantly elevating both throughout a longer term.
    On that note...

    I like PS (Phosphatydilserine) the best for Cortisol control. Min of 800mg/day, but I tend to go with 1g (normally just in PCT or when low cal/Cutting). I personally do not like messing with 11BetaHSD-1 for cortisol control.
    PS actually works on the hypothalamus affecting CRH and pituitary ACTH output.
    This actually makes me wonder right now if the method of action of PS would be efficient on this level of the axis as GHRP will exhibit its counter action this level as well.
    I am not sure if just blocking the exess cortisol conversion at the 11BHSD-1, from the GHRP mediated ACTH increase, would be the better route to go.

    Anyhow, for PRL you could go with Cabergoline, which is Rx as Dostinex, BUT non RX if bought for Research. Its up to you how you define not wanting the non RX route
    Best herbal/vitamin would be L-dopa (Mucana) or 1-Carboxy even though I believe they are the same (Lets not debate this one as its been overdone).
    I would also add a good dose of EGCG and EGC from Green Tea as it is has been shown they are inhibitors of dopa-decarboxylase. You definitely do not want peripheral conversion of large amounts of L-dopa into dopamine as it will then not make it past the BBB and will exert its side effects systemically. (Last thing you are wanting right now is more BP issues I assume).
    Also, other than that P-5-P (pyridoxal 5 phosphate) is great. The active coenzyme form of B6 (pyridoxine hcl) which will not cause the sides of higher doses of B6.

    Sorry for the rant.

    Take Care.

    PS- I still do not think you need anything for this
    Great info Bob, thanks a lot! I will see if I can pick up some 5-P-5 and phosphatidyl serine locally. If I can't find much at a local store I won't worry about it for this upcoming "500mcg" dose.

    EDIT: But, I think running anti cortisol and PRL during CJC/GHRP runs has its merits according to the PDF study Dat posted (Based on Bobaslaw's post of the study) in the link above (post #96), titled, "Hexarelin-Induced Growth Hormone, Cortisol, and Prolactin Release: A Dose-Response Study".
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    The cort and PRL profiles are much different between GHRPs/Hex. Hex has the worst impact. GHRP-6 is not significant enough for the doses we use in the protocol. GHRP-2 is in between...

    Edit: This was recently discussed with Dat, but I cannot remember which thread or Forum. The info on this is out there though

    Edit2: Also, keep in mind that studies show that the (GHRP/Hex) increases in Cort and PRL are blunted by concurrent administration with GHRH if the secretagogue doses do not greatly exceed 1mcg/kg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobaslaw View Post
    The cort and PRL profiles are much different between GHRPs/Hex. Hex has the worst impact. GHRP-6 is not significant enough for the doses we use in the protocol. GHRP-2 is in between...
    Very nice, thanks for the clarification. I was looking at the dose-response graphs in the study and saw PRL up to +180% baseline. Kind of startling upon 1st read. But yes, that was for Hexarelin, not GHRP-6. Thanks buddy!
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    Plus you don't want to kill cortisol levels. It may even be beneficial to have high/normal range on cycle:

    There is synergy between the two hormones involved in GH synthesis.

    "RESULTS: ...cortisol...in the presence of thyroid hormone, increased the growth hormone synthesis rate an additional 2- to 5-fold"

    "DISCUSSION: ...The synergistic control of growth hormone synthesis by T3 and cortisol appears to occur independently of one hormone modulating the cellular distribution or concentration of the receptor for the other hormone (12). Because thyroid and glucocorticoid hormones appear to act at the nuclear level, it seems likely that both hormonal receptors act at the genome in a concerted fashion to increase the accumulation of GHmRNA.

    ...suggests that both hormones interact to modulate the growth hormone response by a pretranslational mechanism, presumably at the level of the growth hormone genome.

    SOURCE: Thyroid and glucocorticoid hormones synergistically control growth hormone mRNA in cultured GH1 cells, LAWRENCE E. SHAPIRO, Proc. Nati. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 75, No. 1, pp. 45-49, January 1978

    ABSTRACT We have previously demonstrated that thyroid hormone controls growth hormone synthesis in GH1 cells and that the induction of the growth hormone response by glucocorticoid appears to be highly dependent on thyroid hormone action. Thyroid hormone induces growth hormone synthesis approximately 5- to 20-fold and cortisol increases this response 2- to 6-fold further. Long-term kinetics of the growth hormone response show that, without added thyroid hormone, cortisol can induce a small-growth hormone response after 48 hr of incubation....
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
    Do you think that starting with a really low dose and gradually increasing it to your desired level might help your body adjust? I'm just wondering, since I know some people have problems with GH when they start with 4-6 i.u. every day, but when they back down to 2 i.u. and work up slowly they eliminate--or at least reduce the intensity of--the side effects.
    I really like this point. So now I need to rethink things. What if the products WERE labeled correctly and my visual inspection of the vials' volumes was inaccurate/inappropriate? Perhaps my starting protocol was resulting in too much GH release and my body had a hard time regulating/adapting.

    I will also mention that the GHRP and CJC can in separate ziplock bags and w/in each of the two bags was an HPLC analysis of the product. I went back and checked and the print off for CJC was in the bag labeled CJC (same for GHRP). Hmmm.....Is this 500mcg dosage thing really necessary or should I just dose everything down a bit to let my body adapt to the increased GH? My hands were achy the past few days (just making note here). IMO, I look bigger and am moving very good weight in the gym even after my 2 week "resting" period (lifted lighter and less frequently).

    Or is it just fine to do my planned "500mcg" dose and see what happens? Sort of in analysis paralysis here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Plus you don't want to kill cortisol levels. It may even be beneficial to have high/normal range on cycle:

    There is synergy between the two hormones involved in GH synthesis.

    "RESULTS: ...cortisol...in the presence of thyroid hormone, increased the growth hormone synthesis rate an additional 2- to 5-fold"

    "DISCUSSION: ...The synergistic control of growth hormone synthesis by T3 and cortisol appears to occur independently of one hormone modulating the cellular distribution or concentration of the receptor for the other hormone (12). Because thyroid and glucocorticoid hormones appear to act at the nuclear level, it seems likely that both hormonal receptors act at the genome in a concerted fashion to increase the accumulation of GHmRNA.

    ...suggests that both hormones interact to modulate the growth hormone response by a pretranslational mechanism, presumably at the level of the growth hormone genome.

    SOURCE: Thyroid and glucocorticoid hormones synergistically control growth hormone mRNA in cultured GH1 cells, LAWRENCE E. SHAPIRO, Proc. Nati. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 75, No. 1, pp. 45-49, January 1978

    ABSTRACT We have previously demonstrated that thyroid hormone controls growth hormone synthesis in GH1 cells and that the induction of the growth hormone response by glucocorticoid appears to be highly dependent on thyroid hormone action. Thyroid hormone induces growth hormone synthesis approximately 5- to 20-fold and cortisol increases this response 2- to 6-fold further. Long-term kinetics of the growth hormone response show that, without added thyroid hormone, cortisol can induce a small-growth hormone response after 48 hr of incubation....
    Great info once again, Dat.

    It certainly is food for thought to the stereotypical misconceptions that certain hormones are solely attributed as "negative" (ex. cortisol, estrogen, etc).
    Unless levels of any particular hormone are extreme (for whatever reasons), leaving the body to determine the optimal balance seems ideal IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Thyroid hormone induces growth hormone synthesis approximately 5- to 20-fold[/INDENT]

    Thats awesome. I was wondering why the combination of the 2 seemed to have such an immediate effect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    So now I need to rethink things.
    Of course you do ...thats what makes you Papa.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Of course you do ...thats what makes you Papa.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobaslaw View Post
    Great info once again, Dat.

    It certainly is food for thought to the stereotypical misconceptions that certain hormones are solely attributed as "negative" (ex. cortisol, estrogen, etc).
    Unless levels of any particular hormone are extreme (for whatever reasons), leaving the body to determine the optimal balance seems ideal IMO.
    EXACTLY! They even discovered recently that it is low but rising estrogen (not testosterone) levels that are responsible for puberty growth spurts in males and it is high levels of estrogen (not testosterone) that stop growth by closing the plates.

    There are no negative hormones. Prolactin even has a role to play.

    In the end the body has its sh1t together far more than you, I or the $49.99 product sold by the supplement company.
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    Talking


    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    Proper response: "Don't ever stop being a d1ck Dat ...thats what makes you who you are as well ...and you are oh so special."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobaslaw View Post
    Great info once again, Dat.

    It certainly is food for thought to the stereotypical misconceptions that certain hormones are solely attributed as "negative" (ex. cortisol, estrogen, etc).
    Unless levels of any particular hormone are extreme (for whatever reasons), leaving the body to determine the optimal balance seems ideal IMO.

    This is very true. Anybody that has gone over board with an AI before can attest to the importance of some estrogen in your system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Of course you do ...thats what makes you Papa.
    Yes that's what I was meaning when I said to not post things to put off the already fragile person that he is. Being far too precise in my book .Better to just inject it and forget it!

    Oh look, no grammar mistakes dat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobaslaw View Post
    Great info once again, Dat.

    It certainly is food for thought to the stereotypical misconceptions that certain hormones are solely attributed as "negative" (ex. cortisol, estrogen, etc).
    Unless levels of any particular hormone are extreme (for whatever reasons), leaving the body to determine the optimal balance seems ideal IMO.
    bob is very right about that papa. I think your best bet to combat cortisol would be Mega dose Ester C(12-15g per day) spaced out evenly and Mega dose Bulk Cissus poweder. This will provide just enough cortisol suppression while not hampering it's synergistic effects on other hormones. By the way I am on bulk cissus and the ester C as well because of the bankhart tear reapir I just had and the funny thing is, I got leaner while expending less energy and eating plenty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumbertot
    Oh look, no grammar mistakes dat.
    Nice of you to make the effort in every thread but mine.


    Quote Originally Posted by pumbertot
    Better to just inject it and forget it!
    Yep and then go lift some weight properly.

    Here's my thread on how to do it "properly". See my last two really frick'in cool posts in that thread...

    Partial/Variable ROMS = Muscle Growth
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    Dosed 500mcg last night.....got flushing (the primary feeling of pressure/tightness around neck, heated feeling, and some sweating) so I'm assuming the products were shipped as labeled. Blood pressure after injection was fine (100/75) and it continued to be on the lower-end ~2 hrs later. I then dosed regular mcgs (100 CJC/300GHRP) this morning. I was going to do a "nooner", but I think I'll save it for this evening since I have enough CJC floating around and I only shoot CJC/GHRP using 1 syringe, so I can't do just GHRP at noon. I will decrease dosages by 50% starting tomorrow, so I will then be shooting: 50mcg CJC/150mcg GHRP to see if BP and headaches disappear. If so, I will work my way up to 100/300.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumbertot View Post
    Yes that's what I was meaning when I said to not post things to put off the already fragile person that he is. Being far too precise in my book .Better to just inject it and forget it!

    Oh look, no grammar mistakes dat.

    You two are REAL pieces of work, you know that? Come up in my log all pissin' & moanin' about how overly precise and whatnot I am. Then you excitedly click back to your overly-scientific threads, analyzing graph upon graph and study upon study.....LOL.... I wuv you two!

    :

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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    You two are REAL pieces of work, you know that? Come up in my log all pissin' & moanin' about how overly precise and whatnot I am. Then you excitedly click back to your overly-scientific threads, analyzing graph upon graph and study upon study.....LOL.... I wuv you two!

    :


    Does this help?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobaslaw View Post
    Does this help?

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    LOL NICE!!
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    HAHAHAHAHAHA...that's awesome Boba...
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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    Dosed 500mcg last night.....got flushing (the primary feeling of pressure/tightness around neck, heated feeling, and some sweating) so I'm assuming the products were shipped as labeled. Blood pressure after injection was fine (100/75) and it continued to be on the lower-end ~2 hrs later. I then dosed regular mcgs (100 CJC/300GHRP) this morning. I was going to do a "nooner", but I think I'll save it for this evening since I have enough CJC floating around and I only shoot CJC/GHRP using 1 syringe, so I can't do just GHRP at noon. I will decrease dosages by 50% starting tomorrow, so I will then be shooting: 50mcg CJC/150mcg GHRP to see if BP and headaches disappear. If so, I will work my way up to 100/300.
    I hope this works for you, Papa! I'll soon be interrupting a therapeutic GH cycle with a 6-week run of CJC, and I too am prone to headaches and high blood pressure. Needless to say, I'll be watching this thread closely!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
    I hope this works for you, Papa! I'll soon be interrupting a therapeutic GH cycle with a 6-week run of CJC, and I too am prone to headaches and high blood pressure. Needless to say, I'll be watching this thread closely!
    Hey bud, good luck on your CJC! No GHRP-6 I take it?

    How much GH are you dosing and what frequency?

    Glad you are following along. Please run a log of your CJC if you have the time. I'd love to read about your experiences
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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    Hey bud, good luck on your CJC! No GHRP-6 I take it?

    How much GH are you dosing and what frequency?

    Glad you are following along. Please run a log of your CJC if you have the time. I'd love to read about your experiences
    I'm running 4 i.u. of GH every day, which is part of Grunt's protocol for healing herniated discs. I just finished my first month, and Grunt suggested that I use 4 mg of CJC-1295 for a 6-week cycle to break up the GH usage. I'm not sure yet how often I'll do that or whether I'll include GHRP; I have roughly 9 months' worth of GH sitting in my fridge.

    As for a log, I doubt that anyone is interested in reading the exploits of an old man with a bum back who is losing strength and size by the week!
  

  
 

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