PapaPump's CJC-1295/GHRP-6 6-month Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    As far as i understand you can go IM with ghrp-6, so stick with that if you like it better.
    Ya, you can go IM with CJC & GHRP. I might start doing that. I'll see if I can tweak my SQs 1st....maybe it's just be being lame.

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    Sorry to hijack your thread papa but...

    I just noticed I've developed another welt/lump where I did an injection from a new vial of CJC that was reconn'd with BW...mine also itch...
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo4Fun View Post
    Sorry to hijack your thread papa but...

    I just noticed I've developed another welt/lump where I did an injection from a new vial of CJC that was reconn'd with BW...mine also itch...
    You need to let a newly reconstituted vial stand for several days to insure that the BA has killed all bacteria (assuming the BW contained .9% BA).
    •   
       

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    Thanks for the info dat...I'll give it a few days and try again...It's odd that I have trouble with my CJC but not with my GHRP-6...
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo4Fun View Post
    Thanks for the info dat...I'll give it a few days and try again...It's odd that I have trouble with my CJC but not with my GHRP-6...
    Sometimes life just be that way.

    I have a really nasty thumbprint sized purple bruise on my side from a simple insulin needle pinning. I have done it 1000 times without such a problem then 2 days ago bam.

    On the other hand I also did a "risky" experiment by taking 2.5ml (60mgs) of tadalifil suspension and adding some BA and then injecting it subcutaneously. There were no problems, no infection, no welts...and there very well could have been....in fact I expected it.

    Still though the results of that experiment were pretty cool. I'm going to properly make a Sildenafil injectable from powder next. (Unlike Tadalifil it is water soluble and 10 times more potent via injecion than oral.)
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    Ok guys, I have CJC-1295 and GHRP-6 in a lot of vials here. Here is a photo of one of each vial. Which vial (left or right) has 5mg and which do you think has 2 mg?

    Please chime in all...this was the easiest way for me to get feedback
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    nice looking log. im subbed.

    i would say the blue top (on left) has 5mg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    nice looking log. im subbed.

    i would say the blue top (on left) has 5mg.
    F.UCK me.....they were mislabeled. Ok, so I have been dosing my GHRP & CJC as if they were CJC & GHRP (opposite of what I thought). So that means I was dosing 250mcg CJC 3x ED and 125mcg GHRP-6 (back-calculating using the number of "ticks" I pulled to from a 1mg/mL solution). LOL, can this log be ANY MORE ****ED UP!? DARRRRR.

    Ok, so for those of you following along, I hope you're still w/me. I am DESPERATELY HOPING my headaches are from the "OD" of CJC. I will be dosing as scheduled now, but I think I'll take a couple days off to let things mellow out internally. Anyone think this is a good idea, or???
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    nice looking log. im subbed.

    i would say the blue top (on left) has 5mg.
    Thanks for the chime in, and welcome Piston!
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    thanks man. yeah the vial on the left looks how my ghrp6 looked. Are you saying there were no labels? or are they all mislabelled? this doesnt sound right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    F.UCK me.....they were mislabeled. Ok, so I have been dosing my GHRP & CJC as if they were CJC & GHRP (opposite of what I thought). So that means I was dosing 300mcg CJC 3x ED and 100mcg GHRP-6. LOL, can this log be ANY MORE ****ED UP!?

    Ok, so for those of you following along, I hope you're still w/me. I am DESPERATELY HOPING my headaches are from the "OD" of CJC. I will be dosing as scheduled now, but I think I'll take a couple days off to let things mellow out internally. Anyone think this is a good idea, or???
    no dont take a break, not needed. thats not an OD by any stretch.

    @pistonpump they are from OS, lables are not put on vials for obvious reasons. but usually a sticker sits in the bag tolet you know which is which. accidents happen i guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumbertot View Post
    no dont take a break, not needed. thats not an OD by any stretch. [I wasn't implying I ODed, but rather "ODed" meaning I took more than my protocol called for. ]

    @pistonpump they are from OS, lables are not put on vials for obvious reasons. but usually a sticker sits in the bag tolet you know which is which. accidents happen i guess.
    , cool thanks Pumb.

    Yes, $hit happens.....the bags were mislabeled.

    So, here's what I was REALLY dosing (and I will fix my above post too):

    CJC-1295: 250mcg 3x ED
    GHRP-6: 125mcg 3x E
    D
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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    , cool thanks Pumb.

    Yes, $hit happens.....the bags were mislabeled.

    So, here's what I was REALLY dosing (and I will fix my above post too):

    CJC-1295: 250mcg 3x ED
    GHRP-6: 125mcg 3x E
    D
    thats actually a nice dose of cjc you were running.
    but yeah with the pituitry working overtime, could explain your headaches especially if you may possibly have a sensitivity to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumbertot View Post
    thats actually a nice dose of cjc you were running.
    but yeah with the pituitry working overtime, could explain your headaches especially if you may possibly have a sensitivity to it.
    So when I start dosing my GHRP6 at 300mcg 3x ED, maybe I'll feel the "hunger". Maybe not. All I care about is getting rid of these headaches.

    HE HE, I took a "sick" day today...headaches started at like 2am and I still have it. My blood pressure is ~130 after 2g hawthronberry. Oh well....
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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    headaches started at like 2am and I still have it. My blood pressure is ~130 after 2g hawthronberry. Oh well....
    If it was me, I would cease all use, see if the headaches go away. then start it back up and see if they return, no reason to sacrifice your health for physical beauty, you know?

    Plus there is anecdotal evidence of CJC causing tumors/growths, and, of course, gh can expediate the growth of anything, so like I said in my humble opinion I would find out whats going on, before continuing.
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    today was your first day finding the right doses? ease up on the cjc imo but shoot the ghrp6 as normal for a few days, a day or two off from the cjc could help. Do you have a history of bad bloodpressure?
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    If it was me, I would cease all use, see if the headaches go away. then start it back up and see if they return, no reason to sacrifice your health for physical beauty, you know?

    Plus there is anecdotal evidence of CJC causing tumors/growths, and, of course, gh can expediate the growth of anything, so like I said in my humble opinion I would find out whats going on, before continuing.
    thats just being far too cautious in my book. in fact id lable that as overreacting. and id say the causing tumours is total BS. yes if you already had a tumour it could accelerate its growth but thats a different thing entirely.

    which therefore means you are proposing papa already has a brain tumour which has now grown since starting the cjc+ghrp6.

    edit: i will admit my reply is rather strong but im on nightduty and have had a lack of sleep for past 4 days. but my reason is please do not frighten the already fragile person that is papa.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumbertot View Post
    thats just being far too cautious in my book. in fact id lable that as overreacting. and id say the causing tumours is total BS. yes if you already had a tumour it could accelerate its growth but thats a different thing entirely.

    which therefore means you are proposing papa already has a brain tumour which has now grown since starting the cjc+ghrp6.

    edit: i will admit my reply is rather strong but im on nightduty and have had a lack of sleep for past 4 days. but my reason is please do not frighten the already fragile person that is papa.
    LOL, "fragile person that is papa" . Bwuahahaha. You make papa giggle pumb!

    But, let's think about this: CJC has a 1/2-life as indicated in Dat's thread. If I've been dosing 5.25mg (5,250mcg) the past week, I think I'd have enough floating around for a while that I wouldn't need to take some for at least a couple of days.

    I'm a "midoints" sort of guy...I like averages. So I think I'll average Pumb's recommendation, Future's, and Piston's and when I do that I get a personal decision to:

    Cease CJC for 2-3 days (depending on how I feel), but continue to dose GHRP-6 300mcg 3x ED.
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    Papa, the best way to get back to the levels you want would be:

    1)via matrix, figure out your current systemic level of CJC using the 10% daily degradation level as posted by DAT.

    2)Postpone further doses of CJC until you current systemic levels drop to the baseline of your original protocol, then continue your desired dosages.

    3)Continue GHRP at the proposed dosages throughout.

    Take Care.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobaslaw View Post
    Papa, the best way to get back to the levels you want would be:

    1)via matrix, figure out your current systemic level of CJC using the 10% daily degradation level as posted by DAT.

    2)Postpone further doses of CJC until you current systemic levels drop to the baseline of your original protocol, then continue your desired dosages.

    3)Continue GHRP at the proposed dosages throughout.

    Take Care.
    1) Boring
    2) ZZzzzzzzzz
    3) Getting warmer.



    pumbs suggestion:

    Double all current dosages and wait for the fireworks!

    Seriously though wait 2 days on the CJC then get back into it should be pretty close to being right on track.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobaslaw View Post
    Papa, the best way to get back to the levels you want would be:

    1)via matrix, figure out your current systemic level of CJC using the 10% daily degradation level as posted by DAT.

    2)Postpone further doses of CJC until you current systemic levels drop to the baseline of your original protocol, then continue your desired dosages.

    3)Continue GHRP at the proposed dosages throughout.

    Take Care.
    Yes, I like this approach and it's exactly what I'm going to do.

    I'll post my results when I finish crunching some #s.

    Thanks Bob for chiming in. Good to see you man
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    Ok, I have spent quite some time today working on decay rates and CJC-1295 accumulation rates when dosed ED. I am trying to determine how many days off from CJC I need in order to reach the concentration I SHOULD have been at if my protocol was followed.

    Below is a basic decay rate of CJC based on 10% loss ED. Again, as I noted Dat's thread, this is asymptotic meaning the line approaches zero, but in theory, will never reach zero unless you define a "decimal stopping point" such as, 0.00001. Enough of that crap.



    The next graph basically shows the Actual & Expected [CJC] (CJC concentrations) as a function of time and how long I have to wait until I can start dosing CJC again.




    Source data attached (zipped Excel workbook)
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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    Ok, I have spent quite some time today (on my day off from work) working on decay rates and CJC-1295 accumulation rates when dosed ED.

    Below is a basic decay rate of CJC based on 10% loss ED. Again, as I noted Dat's thread, this is asymptotic meaning the line approaches zero, but in theory, will never reach zero unless you define a "decimal stopping point" such as, 0.00001. Enough of that crap.

    The next graph is how the CJC's concentration accumulates over a 14 day period. Note the dose used everyday is 300mcg.

    Now, below is data that shows my approximated current (10/10/2008) concentration of CJC-1295. Note: I took only one shot of 250mcg today (this morning). That is when I figured out the vials were mislabeled.

    Source data attached (zipped Excel workbook)
    im not seeing any graphs bro.
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    EDITED POST ABOVE (ADDED GRAPHS): Ok, sorry for the delay. I had to find a stupid mistake in my calculations. I accidentally had a "sum" function that was artificially inflating the [CJC]. Sorry.

    Pumb, thanks for catching and not telling anyone about my 5th grade mistake
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    Don't worry bro...I saw it too. I'm just too busy working to point it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo4Fun View Post
    Don't worry bro...I saw it too. I'm just too busy working to point it out.
    LOL! JFC you guys....really b-slapping Papa today huh? I have been staring at my damn Excel data for hours.....multi-tasking between graphs and whatnot. Eeesh.

    Anywho, as my data suggests, I will have to wait 3 days before my CJC levels drop to where they should be. That will in no way inhibit GH release because there will obviously be PLENTY of CJC floating around to work w/my GHRP-6.
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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    LOL! JFC you guys....really b-slapping Papa today huh? I have been staring at my damn Excel data for hours.....multi-tasking between graphs and whatnot. Eeesh.

    Anywho, as my data suggests, I will have to wait 3 days before my CJC levels drop to where they should be. That will in no way inhibit GH release because there will obviously be PLENTY of CJC floating around to work w/my GHRP-6.
    us men multi-tasking, is that possible?lol.

    nice graphs papa, it was worth it in the end.

    oh the 3 days may allow the pituitary tumour to shrink a bit too.
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    Good to hear you'll be back on track in no time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumbertot View Post
    oh the 3 days may allow the pituitary tumour to shrink a bit too.
    LMFAO, Pumbertot!!!!

    PS- Papa, I knew when I gave the suggestion about figuring the decay rate you would be coming up with your extraordinarily meticulous and beautifully crafted visual aids! I was really looking forward to it. Nice Bro, real nice.
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    I think there is a good possibility that you DID NOT mix up vials in the first place.

    You can not compare freeze-dried powder volume between vials and expect to get an accurate assessment of the amount/weight of peptide inside.

    If you look at vials of the same color you will notice variability even among the same peptide. Trying to compare vials of different peptides by visual inspection is worse.

    Although the powder is suppose to be devoid of moisture, it is likely not and this may more or less account for volume changes. In addition some powder is simply denser then others.

    I just pulled out CJC-1295 2mg vials; GHRP-6 5mg vials and MT-II 10mg vials and compared.

    There was a LOT of variability in the GHRP-6 vials. There was a fair amount of consistency among the CJC-1295 vials as well as the MT-II vials.

    However comparing among peptides was difficult. 10mgs of MT-II did not look much bigger the 2mgs of CJC-1295 and comparing GHRP-6 5mgs to CJC-1295 2mgs was an exercise in futility.

    You are VERY VERY lucky because one set of vials is green & the other blue. In fact they were labeled for you. Now ALL you need to do is double check with the seller by color code.

    If you are unable to do that let the CJC-1295 clear and then choose one vial and take a little.

    Look for:
    • a hunger effect = GHRP-6
    • lethargy = CJC-1295
    • solid sleep but no wacky dream = GHRP-6
    • deep sleep and wacky dreams = CJC-1295


    OR if you have a very sensitive scale capable of measuring .001 grams (and if you play with powders you should) then open one of each and weigh the contents of each.

    * - By-the-way I'm not immune to these types of hassles either. Some of my GHRP-6 are blue & my CJC-1295's are blue. When I just pulled them out for a comparison I may have mixed up one of the vials. Oh well.
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    i think dat may be right.just looked at mine, cant tell them apart due variances.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    I think there is a good possibility that you DID NOT mix up vials in the first place.

    You can not compare freeze-dried powder volume between vials and expect to get an accurate assessment of the amount/weight of peptide inside.

    If you look at vials of the same color you will notice variability even among the same peptide. Trying to compare vials of different peptides by visual inspection is worse.

    Although the powder is suppose to be devoid of moisture, it is likely not and this may more or less account for volume changes. In addition some powder is simply denser then others.

    I just pulled out CJC-1295 2mg vials; GHRP-6 5mg vials and MT-II 10mg vials and compared.

    There was a LOT of variability in the GHRP-6 vials. There was a fair amount of consistency among the CJC-1295 vials as well as the MT-II vials.

    However comparing among peptides was difficult. 10mgs of MT-II did not look much bigger the 2mgs of CJC-1295 and comparing GHRP-6 5mgs to CJC-1295 2mgs was an exercise in futility.

    You are VERY VERY lucky because one set of vials is green & the other blue. In fact they were labeled for you. Now ALL you need to do is double check with the seller by color code.

    If you are unable to do that let the CJC-1295 clear and then choose one vial and take a little.

    Look for:
    • a hunger effect = GHRP-6
    • lethargy = CJC-1295
    • solid sleep but no wacky dream = GHRP-6
    • deep sleep and wacky dreams = CJC-1295


    OR if you have a very sensitive scale capable of measuring .001 grams (and if you play with powders you should) then open one of each and weigh the contents of each.

    * - By-the-way I'm not immune to these types of hassles either. Some of my GHRP-6 are blue & my CJC-1295's are blue. When I just pulled them out for a comparison I may have mixed up one of the vials. Oh well.

    Ok, this is getting me all jacked up in the head. I would REALLY like to get this straightened out. I was already told that supplier of my peps can switch tops and uses what ever is avail.

    And YES, I have quite a bit of variability in volume of powder among GHRP and CJC.

    LOL Dat, I too have mixed up vials when I was comparing them! Wow was that pissing me off.

    Well, I'll just use one pep. at a time and look for your "indicators" above. Thanks for helping!

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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    Ok, this is getting me all jacked up in the head. I would REALLY like to get this straightened out. I was already told that supplier of my peps can switch tops and uses what ever is avail.

    And YES, I have quite a bit of variability in volume of powder among GHRP and CJC.

    LOL Dat, I too have mixed up vials when I was comparing them! Wow was that pissing me off.

    Well, I'll just use one pep. at a time and look for your "indicators" above. Thanks for helping!


    IMO, the best immediate short term side to judge CJC is the distinct dose dependant "niacin like flushing". At least 400mcg would give some minor flushing for me. Not quite as intense as the days of bi weekly 1mg injects tho..
    Knowing this expected symptom, I can even detect it slightly when taking 200mcg if I pay close attention...

    I would personally try a larger dosage of at least 500mcg and let the fridge be the judge. Either you get some flushing and stick your head in the freezer, or you possibly get hungry and look in the fridge instead

    I agree. Dat is right for pointing out the flawed method of visually identifying powder volume, if that is the only basis for the assumption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobaslaw View Post
    IMO, the best immediate short term side to judge CJC is the distinct dose dependant "niacin like flushing". At least 400mcg would give some minor flushing for me. Not quite as intense as the days of bi weekly 1mg injects tho..
    Knowing this expected symptom, I can even detect it slightly when taking 200mcg if I pay close attention...
    Very good! I was hoping someone would chime in with other/better ways to distinguish. That symptom is talked about a lot.

    I never really got it because I dose smaller but more frequent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobaslaw View Post
    IMO, the best immediate short term side to judge CJC is the distinct dose dependant "niacin like flushing". At least 400mcg would give some minor flushing for me. Not quite as intense as the days of bi weekly 1mg injects tho..
    Knowing this expected symptom, I can even detect it slightly when taking 200mcg if I pay close attention...

    I would personally try a larger dosage of at least 500mcg and let the fridge be the judge. Either you get some flushing and stick your head in the freezer, or you possibly get hungry and look in the fridge instead

    I agree. Dat is right for pointing out the flawed method of visually identifying powder volume, if that is the only basis for the assumption.
    Sweet, I'm all over it. I'll keep an eye out for a flush when I do a 500mcg hit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    You need to let a newly reconstituted vial stand for several days to insure that the BA has killed all bacteria (assuming the BW contained .9% BA).
    Dat, isn't 0.9% BA only supposed to prevent bacteria from reproducing, rather than outright killing them?
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    Quote Originally Posted by papapumpsd View Post
    Anyone else have significant bruising from abdominal SQ injections??? JFC, IM was 10x easier and no issues. This SQ is a joke....at least for me.
    I ALWAYS do IM bro...much easier, and hurts way less. usually always do delts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
    Dat, isn't 0.9% BA only supposed to prevent bacteria from reproducing, rather than outright killing them?
    As you state, that is how "bacteriastatic agent" is defined and BA is often called a "bacteriastatic agent".

    However is is also a disinfectant. At the moment I can not find the study that tested .9% BA on bacteria and found that it took 3 days to kill all bacteria. These types of studies were done to support use in human aqueous solutions & oil based solutions as well.

    For the moment here is a snippet from page 359 of the "The Veterinary Formulary" by Yolande Bishop, British Veterinary Association which states that BA may be used as a disinfectant for cows teats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobaslaw View Post
    IMO, the best immediate short term side to judge CJC is the distinct dose dependant "niacin like flushing". At least 400mcg would give some minor flushing for me. Not quite as intense as the days of bi weekly 1mg injects tho..
    Knowing this expected symptom, I can even detect it slightly when taking 200mcg if I pay close attention...

    I would personally try a larger dosage of at least 500mcg and let the fridge be the judge. Either you get some flushing and stick your head in the freezer, or you possibly get hungry and look in the fridge instead

    I agree. Dat is right for pointing out the flawed method of visually identifying powder volume, if that is the only basis for the assumption.

    exactly what i was going to suggest bro. once again great minds.............
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    huh huh huh...dat said "teat"...sorry that is my best Beavis and Butthead imitation...

    Good info as always dat...i've been letting my reconstituted CJC sit for a few days and Im going to try it again...luckily these huge knots (they got damn big) on my stomach are going down and the redness and heat has gone away...
  

  
 

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