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    Originally posted by jweave23


    Maybe so, but we need idealists just as much as we need people of action.
    there's nothing wrong with idealists...but one can reach a point where their heads are so far up in the clouds they are of no earthly good. i know for myself, i dont have any problems with anyone who disagrees with the President etc...just because a person disagrees with policy doesnt make them un-American or whatever but I do have a problem with someone criticizing from foreign soil and that little performance by that Oscar guy...especially when we are now experiencing casualties and pows...and saying one is ashamed to be an American is inexcusable. Its at that piont that I say if they are that put out with the government that provides free speech then they can certainly leave and go live in Iraq or hanoi or wherever they will feel more comfortable.

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    Originally posted by msclbldrguy


    there's nothing wrong with idealists...but one can reach a point where their heads are so far up in the clouds they are of no earthly good. i know for myself, i dont have any problems with anyone who disagrees with the President etc...just because a person disagrees with policy doesnt make them un-American or whatever but I do have a problem with someone criticizing from foreign soil and that little performance by that Oscar guy...especially when we are now experiencing casualties and pows...and saying one is ashamed to be an American is inexcusable. Its at that piont that I say if they are that put out with the government that provides free speech then they can certainly leave and go live in Iraq or hanoi or wherever they will feel more comfortable.
    There seems to be a fundamental, underlying argument here that alot of people aren't quit hitting. Do I think that the actions by most of the protestors (and esp Moore's oscar bit) are inappropriate and in bad taste? Yes of course. However much they may be in bad taste, they are still guarenteed the right to say these things by our Constitution. I just get pissed whenever people use the words "traitor", "treason" and "unAmerican" too easily IMO.

    And BTW screw all of you who think that being a liberal is somehow related to being unAmerican, unpatriotic, or whatever other bull**** you spew from your fingers. I agree that the example of Fonda above is terrible (old story, heard it many times before), but I certainly won't sit here and let everyone make this into a ****ing conservative right wing forum to bash liberals, which is basically what it's turned into IMO.
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    Originally posted by jweave23


    There seems to be a fundamental, underlying argument here that alot of people aren't quit hitting. Do I think that the actions by most of the protestors (and esp Moore's oscar bit) are inappropriate and in bad taste? Yes of course. However much they may be in bad taste, they are still guarenteed the right to say these things by our Constitution. I just get pissed whenever people use the words "traitor", "treason" and "unAmerican" too easily IMO.

    And BTW screw all of you who think that being a liberal is somehow related to being unAmerican, unpatriot ic, or whatever other bull**** you spew from your fingers. I agree that the example of Fonda above is terrible (old story, heard it many times before), but I certainly won't sit here and let everyone make this into a ****ing conservative right wing forum to bash liberals, which is basically what it's turned into IMO.
    Pork, please don't tell me you're a liberal. You're breaking my heart.
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    http://www.thehemperor.net/nontester...or/liberal.htm

    liberal and conservative...sorta defined

    h19
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    Originally posted by jweave23


    There seems to be a fundamental, underlying argument here that alot of people aren't quit hitting. Do I think that the actions by most of the protestors (and esp Moore's oscar bit) are inappropriate and in bad taste? Yes of course. However much they may be in bad taste, they are still guarenteed the right to say these things by our Constitution. I just get pissed whenever people use the words "traitor", "treason" and "unAmerican" too easily IMO.

    And BTW screw all of you who think that being a liberal is somehow related to being unAmerican, unpatriot ic, or whatever other bull**** you spew from your fingers. I agree that the example of Fonda above is terrible (old story, heard it many times before), but I certainly won't sit here and let everyone make this into a ****ing conservative right wing forum to bash liberals, which is basically what it's turned into IMO.
    hey...i never meant to imply that being liberal was un-American, nor have i questioned their partiotism. I was using your post as a lead-in to my point and if it came across as a dig to you i apologize...that was never my intent. I dosagree with the liberal position but i think most of them are patriotic Americans...especially when faced with having to give up our way of life. I happen to vote Republican...and if anyone reads my posts I dont believe I;ve ever accused anyone disagreeing with the US governments position of being a traitor just because they disagreed with it....but I do not understand at all the extreme positions. Frankly, I'm thankful we live in a place where these kinds of things can be expressed without someone being killed, jailed or tortured for their opinions or beliefs.

    Still, if someone wants to got out and say they are ashamed to be an American....I draw the line there...to me thats not only inappropriate but something like that is un-American imo. Thats a slap in the face of these soldiers, some of whom have already made the ultimate sacrifice, who are over there trying to preserve our way of life and stuff.


    again if i came across as this being anything more than my opinion and how i believe then i apologize. there was probably a better way to say what i wanted.
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    yeah i mean i agree too, that if you publically announce....especially if your a celebrity,..which means you will get publicity over it.......that you are ashamed to be an american...then at least someone should pose them with an alternative to that...right on the spot...like if sean penn was interviews...and said.."im ashamed to be an american" the interviewer should have said...ok dick head....then what would you rather be...because if anything else you wouldn't even be in this position you are in..and would not have had the chance to become as wealthy as you have......

    what makes saying that even worse...is doing it on foreign soil...now thats just wrong....

    i wish i worked at the airlines.....if i knew that these scumbags had traveled somewhere..and spoke publically about america and their shame of being one.....you know i would have done all in my power to make sure they never got the chance to fly home.

    ignants..

    h19
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    you have to admit there is a difference...when someone like me

    who is just hamper19 from NJ...... and sean penn say the same thing..

    it has much more of an effect when your sean penn....

    especially if your name is hamper

    while it technically is the same thing..... you chould not be allowed to use your celebrity status..for anything other then like....getting into a restaurant or comped at a club or something.

    politics and hollywood do not mix well

    sorta like mrps and no blender.....
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    Originally posted by hamper19
    politics and hollywood do not mix well
    because hollywood is overflowing with irrational moronic dip****s. that's the point, this isn't liberal bashing... I myself am quite liberal, and idealist in many ways... but these folks give freedom of speech a bad rap... simply because overpaid and undereducated entertainers receive the most media attention and can potentially have a fart heard round the world, does NOT mean they shouldn't exercise restraint, especially when they hardly know what they're talking about.
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    Originally posted by hamper19
    http://www.thehemperor.net/nontester...or/liberal.htm

    liberal and conservative...sorta defined

    h19
    That article is a left wing propaganda piece; plain and simple. Liberals stand for all the freedoms; conservatives for all that's repressive in this country. Actually we can thank the liberals for the freedom to remove God from the classroom; for freeing the gay community into an outspoken, vicious "minority," and the death of millions of innocent babies every year. They call the last one "freedom" of choice. Problem is, the person getting executed has no choice. Typical of twisted liberal logic regarding almost all "freedoms." Yep, add up all the freedoms brought about by the misguided liberal community, and you have the lack of morality and personal safety we experience today. No longer can you leave your kids out until 10pm on Halloween, like when I was a kid. Hell, you better not let them walk around the block in broad daylight if you expect to see them again. Thank you my liberal friends. We owe this all to you.

    I know there are fine Democrats out there. But they are usually conservative by nature. John F. Kennedy was an example. But I can have no respect for the twisted modern liberal views, as I see these as the root cause of the depravity and moral decay we see in this nation today.


    Jesse, this is in no way aimed at you, as you are one of my best friends on this board, and I know you are a fine person as well. But I can't understand your strong defense of so many loathsome liberal philosophies.
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    john man..lol..i just posted that cause i looked up liberal on the net real quick....personally......i don't see the point in saying...liberal..coservative. .democrat..republican..etc.

    to me it ends up all being the same after election day....every president has to address the same issues in one form or another....education...militar y...healthcare ...etc.

    so really theres no point in classifying anything IMO

    right now there are all of the "classes" fighting over there in iraq..you think they care whos liberal..conservative..etc?... no

    h19
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    well, it ain't the philosophies, as you can look at either side and say there are "loathsome" elements... which is why so many people, aligned with one party or another, always run to the middle... it ain't necessarily the philosophies, it's the individual who misinterprets them, on either side.
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    Originally posted by John Benz

    That article is a left wing propaganda piece; plain and simple. Liberals stand for all the freedoms; conservatives for all that's repressive in this country. Actually we can thank the liberals for the freedom to remove God from the classroom; for freeing the gay community into an outspoken, vicious "minority," and the death of millions of innocent babies every year. They call the last one "freedom" of choice. Problem is, the person getting executed has no choice. Typical of twisted liberal logic regarding almost all "freedoms." Yep, add up all the freedoms brought about by the misguided liberal community, and you have the lack of morality and personal safety we experience today. No longer can you leave your kids out until 10pm on Halloween, like when I was a kid. Hell, you better not let them walk around the block in broad daylight if you expect to see them again. Thank you my liberal friends. We owe this all to you.

    I know there are fine Democrats out there. But they are usually conservative by nature. John F. Kennedy was an example. But I can have no respect for the twisted modern liberal views, as I see these as the root cause of the depravity and moral decay we see in this nation today.


    Jesse, this is in no way aimed at you, as you are one of my best friends on this board, and I know you are a fine person as well. But I can't understand your strong defense of so many loathsome liberal philosophies.
    My new fuhrer
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    Originally posted by Biggin


    because hollywood is overflowing with irrational moronic dip****s. that's the point, this isn't liberal bashing... I myself am quite liberal, and idealist in many ways... but these folks give freedom of speech a bad rap... simply because overpaid and undereducated entertainers receive the most media attention and can potentially have a fart heard round the world, does NOT mean they shouldn't exercise restraint, especially when they hardly know what they're talking about.

     

    should NOT exercise restraint or should?

     

    h19
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    they should absolutely restrain themselves when they know they will be given brief time on national television, NOT to report news or their own personal philosophies, but to simply thank the "Academy" and the occasional director or family member, and realize they're only being televised and covered so that they can put pretty pictures in magazines to sell.
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    Sorry, but read it again, hamper-- "does NOT mean they shouldn't exercise restrain" makes perfect grammatic sense. The rest of the post makes perfect political sense, too. Most actors are well-intentioned people whose egos hide from them how they don't function too well outside their chosen field.
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    ok sorry my bad..i just got home and was skimming over it real quick
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    Originally posted by John Benz

    That article is a left wing propaganda piece; plain and simple. Liberals stand for all the freedoms; conservatives for all that's repressive in this country. Actually we can thank the liberals for the freedom to remove God from the classroom; for freeing the gay community into an outspoken, vicious "minority," and the death of millions of innocent babies every year. They call the last one "freedom" of choice. Problem is, the person getting executed has no choice. Typical of twisted liberal logic regarding almost all "freedoms." Yep, add up all the freedoms brought about by the misguided liberal community, and you have the lack of morality and personal safety we experience today. No longer can you leave your kids out until 10pm on Halloween, like when I was a kid. Hell, you better not let them walk around the block in broad daylight if you expect to see them again. Thank you my liberal friends. We owe this all to you.

    I know there are fine Democrats out there. But they are usually conservative by nature. John F. Kennedy was an example. But I can have no respect for the twisted modern liberal views, as I see these as the root cause of the depravity and moral decay we see in this nation today.


    Jesse, this is in no way aimed at you, as you are one of my best friends on this board, and I know you are a fine person as well. But I can't understand your strong defense of so many loathsome liberal philosophies.
    well said Benz...one thing I'm really thankful for is that we live here in the US with all its problems...confident we can each express our views (however misguided ) without fear of punishment from the government. When I nowadays hear the term liberal I think of a person who thinks its ok for anything goes....and it seems to me that many liberals fail to realize that along with freedom comes responsibility...unfortunately too many folks...whether they are labeled liberal, conservative, etc. seem to shirk that responsibility....just my .02
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    the biggest problem plaguing america today... the lack of responsibility of your own actions...

    its let america to be fat slobs who spend too much money and create too much waste... and then blame it on someone else
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    Originally posted by John Benz
    Jesse, this is in no way aimed at you, as you are one of my best friends on this board, and I know you are a fine person as well. But I can't understand your strong defense of so many loathsome liberal philosophies.
    You can't understand because you are making the gross generalizations that are typical of most "conservatives". I try to support my party and ideals without aggressively attacking the opposing viewpoint, a positive and supportive form of argument and defense rather than a negative and hostile one. I don't as much believe that conservatives are "wrong", but that I believe moreso in the liberal side of things.

    Your conclusions as to liberal philosophies are amazingly broad and full of holes, but you know this. No one can accurately depict a whole way of thinking in a few paragraphs, and if they could it couldn't be that worthy of referencing anyway. You have given your opinion regarding liberals, which I respect, but I disagree. I won't, however, do the same and make such bold and brazen statements about conservatives; ones that are meant only to discredit their philosophies without regard to complete representation of the issues at hand. The fact of the matter is I don't fully support every single view of liberals, but more importantly I won't suggest that every conservative viewpoint is wrong either. I lean one way, definitely yes, but I realize that reality is somewhere in that murky gray area of the middle ground.
  

  
 

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