POLICE STATE 2011: 6 year old girl groped then drug tested by TSA

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by drinkyboy View Post
    First of all, he boarded the plane in Amsterdam. They dont just hire anybody...there are all kinds of background checks and im sure if they had some kind of sexual offense against a child on their recoed, they wouldnt hire them. Somebody posted that they ARE pedofiles so that was geared more towards THAT person. There is NO way of predicting someones future actions PERIOD! So for those saying there rights are being violated, what do you suggest they do? Let people come and go as they please? So they quit doing these security checks and the moment something goes wrong, everyone acts surprised. What do you expect? I am almost positive that ANY COMMON IDIOT CANNOT FIND A WAY TO PENETRATE THAT IMPENETRATABLE SECURITY! Nice try though. I too enjoy my freedom, thats why I WILL let them grab me wherever they please, as long as I get from point A to point B in one piece.
    There you go... you just found a way to penetrate that security... board in another country, TSA just became useless and you weren't even thinking about it, thanks for making my point for me.
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by hackos123 View Post
    Be careful how much "Safety" we demand from our government or allow it to impose on us. Complete freedom is anarchy, but complete control is totalitarianism. In the middle somewhere is the balance where we maintain our personal freedoms in relative safety. I for one, am willing to risk a little of the safety aspect not to risk my personal freedoms related to privacy. Once we lose or give up our freedom in the name of safety and security, we will not get it back.
    Take it somewhere else, that logic doesn't seem to sit well here.

    How long exactly before 911? And what type of "Security" controls were there back then?

    But yeah... we are much safer now.
    The Historic PES Legend
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by drinkyboy View Post
    First of all, he boarded the plane in Amsterdam. They dont just hire anybody...there are all kinds of background checks and im sure if they had some kind of sexual offense against a child on their recoed, they wouldnt hire them. Somebody posted that they ARE pedofiles so that was geared more towards THAT person. There is NO way of predicting someones future actions PERIOD! So for those saying there rights are being violated, what do you suggest they do? Let people come and go as they please? So they quit doing these security checks and the moment something goes wrong, everyone acts surprised. What do you expect? I am almost positive that ANY COMMON IDIOT CANNOT FIND A WAY TO PENETRATE THAT IMPENETRATABLE SECURITY! Nice try though. I too enjoy my freedom, thats why I WILL let them grab me wherever they please, as long as I get from point A to point B in one piece.
    no one is saying come and go willy nilly. Quite the contrary. The issue at hand is with an offensive pat down of a 6 year old. The TSA has been shown ineffective, these are just gratuitous and unnecessary.
    Mr. Supps Board Rep

  4. I understand what your saying but they DO use children for this stuff and just because someone has a child does not mean that they play the role of a parent. Some people have their kids hold there stash or whatever they are trying to hide. And to DAdams...but we are safe arent we? No one was hurt. You guys do realize that there is NOTHING anyone can say on this board that will be an "end all" solution to this right? When I was in the military, I was flying back to Korea in uniform and they pulled me aside to search me. I wasnt mad because I know the person you would least expect is the person that has something to hide.

  5. I will say that everyone on here has a valid point. Im not hating on anyone for their views....just to be clear.
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  6. Also, TSA and Homeland Security are both scrutinized for profiling. So, for every search of a person fitting "the profile" of a terrorist, they have to search kids, little old ladies, and even men and women in uniform.
    Training around a jacked up neck.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by drinkyboy View Post
    And to DAdams...but we are safe arent we? No one was hurt.
    If your are referring to the underwear bomber, then again, the TSA did NOTHING to avert that attack. My point was that the TSA is a corporate private money grab from the Federal government that doesn't protect us anymore than prior to 911 attack. Every last security measure we have instituted has been a knee jerk reaction to something had happened.

    As I stated earlier, we do not look at people, we scan bodies and touch clothes, until we have trained officers looking people in the eyes, we are just waiting for the next attack, no more, no less. Take a look at isreals air port security, they don't violate personal space for flyers, yet are very successful in stopping terrorism even though they have 10x more attempts than here in the US.

    There is no reason to reinvent the wheel when the process has been tried and true out there.
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by specmike View Post
    Also, TSA and Homeland Security are both scrutinized for profiling. So, for every search of a person fitting "the profile" of a terrorist, they have to search kids, little old ladies, and even men and women in uniform.
    Profiling has proven not to work, Bruce hits that one hard. You profile muslims, the goal post will be moved.

    http://www.schneier.com/essay-076.html
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Profiling has proven not to work, Bruce hits that one hard. You profile muslims, the goal post will be moved.

    http://www.schneier.com/essay-076.html
    That still does not change the fact that they do in fact vary their "random" searches across all lines to avoid even the appearance of profiling or any form of discrimination.
    Training around a jacked up neck.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by specmike View Post
    That still does not change the fact that they do in fact vary their "random" searches across all lines to avoid even the appearance of profiling or any form of discrimination.
    Did you not read what I just posted?

    I just stated profiling does not work in the native way of thinking. No use in profiling.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Did you not read what I just posted?

    I just stated profiling does not work in the native way of thinking. No use in profiling.
    YES. I READ WHAT YOU POSTED. I am NOT arguing the point of whether or not profiling works.

    I am saying that both TSA and Homeland Security have been accused of or come under scrutiny for the appearance of profiling. Now, read carefully......

    They may or may not be profiling. It may or may not work. I don't give a sh1t. The point is that they both have in fact been accused of it and have adopted tactics or techniques to avoid being accused of it again.
    Training around a jacked up neck.

  12. There's nothing wrong with profiling... The Protected class are a bunch of cry babies


  13. Quote Originally Posted by specmike View Post
    YES. I READ WHAT YOU POSTED. I am NOT arguing the point of whether or not profiling works.

    I am saying that both TSA and Homeland Security have been accused of or come under scrutiny for the appearance of profiling. Now, read carefully......

    They may or may not be profiling. It may or may not work. I don't give a sh1t. The point is that they both have in fact been accused of it and have adopted tactics or techniques to avoid being accused of it again.
    Okay, I am done. Your response makes no point at all to the article I posted from bruce schniere and you responded in less than a minute of me posting it so there is no way you could have read it.

    So feel free to carry on defending the unnecessary TSA as I believe our debate has officially ended.
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by StakedCop View Post
    There's nothing wrong with profiling... The Protected class are a bunch of cry babies
    Even though it is known to be useless, I could care less about profiling... just keep your 60 year old paws off my baby maker!
    The Historic PES Legend

  15. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Even though it is known to be useless, I could care less about profiling... just keep your 60 year old paws off my baby maker!
    I'm 99 and if I wanna give you a reach around you're gonna like it or get tazed

    Sorry it seems my sense of humor is out of control again


  16. Quote Originally Posted by StakedCop View Post
    I'm 99 and if I wanna give you a reach around you're gonna like it or get tazed

    Sorry it seems my sense of humor is out of control again
    Sorry? I'm not!
    The Historic PES Legend

  17. Hahaha.. the top advertisement says it all... in my browser it is advertising SEIU!!!

    You cant make that **** up.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Sorry? I'm not!
    Oops!!! there I go with the political correctness again...


  19. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Hahaha.. the top advertisement says it all... in my browser it is advertising SEIU!!!

    You cant make that **** up.
    Haha priceless!!! Yes the SEIU, vote often and vote black


  20. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Okay, I am done. Your response makes no point at all to the article I posted from bruce schniere and you responded in less than a minute of me posting it so there is no way you could have read it.

    So feel free to carry on defending the unnecessary TSA as I believe our debate has officially ended.
    I think you are confused. I'm not defending the TSA and no, I have not had time to read any articles or books by anyone. I am making a statement based on my own personal knowledge from my law enf career.

    Quote Originally Posted by specmike View Post
    Also, TSA and Homeland Security are both scrutinized for profiling. So, for every search of a person fitting "the profile" of a terrorist, they have to search kids, little old ladies, and even men and women in uniform.

    All I said was those 2 entities have been forced to change tactics because they were accused of profiling. I don't see how you can conclude that I am defending TSA based on that statement. I have also not said ANYTHING about the effectiveness of profiling or the lack thereof. You either misread or I mistyped something above.

    Again, I am not saying profiling works. I am not defending the TSA. They suck at times. I got on a plane last year with another persons boarding pass so yeah, they have holes in their plan.
    Training around a jacked up neck.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    On another note...Israel doesnt subject their passengers to offensive pat downs and naked body checks and they get terrorism all the time. Havent seen any issues on their airplanes either..
    And, just so we all are aware, what the Israeli's do is the epitome of profiling. And they are REALLY good at it.
    Training around a jacked up neck.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by specmike View Post
    And, just so we all are aware, what the Israeli's do is the epitome of profiling. And they are REALLY good at it.
    Ill have to look into that more....but I know they use a system of interviewing. A form of psychology and mind/body reading.
    This message was paid for by the Russians

  23. Quote Originally Posted by specmike View Post
    And, just so we all are aware, what the Israeli's do is the epitome of profiling. And they are REALLY good at it.
    Depends on how you define profiling. The way it is tossed around today is via race, sex, religion...etc. Which is what you are alluding to in your previous post.

    Israel does none of these things. In that article it talks about behavioral awareness training, which is what Israel performs along with a defense in depth tactics. All of which we in the USA do not do. We have one line defense, nothing in depth, and we do not look anyone in the eyes. The only thing in the US we must beat, is a computer, something easily done.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Depends on how you define profiling. The way it is tossed around today is via race, sex, religion...etc. Which is what you are alluding to in your previous post.

    Israel does none of these things. In that article it talks about behavioral awareness training, which is what Israel performs along with a defense in depth tactics. All of which we in the USA do not do. We have one line defense, nothing in depth, and we do not look anyone in the eyes. The only thing in the US we must beat, is a computer, something easily done.
    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Ill have to look into that more....but I know they use a system of interviewing. A form of psychology and mind/body reading.
    Google hit this instantly: PROFILING

    Israel’s approach allows most travelers to pass through airport security with relative ease. But Israeli personnel do single out small numbers of passengers for extensive searches and screening, based on profiling methods that have so far been rejected in the United States, subjecting Arabs and, in some cases, other foreign nationals to an extensive screening that comes with a steep civil liberties price.
    “The profiling system is good,” Merari said. “But it has to be done with more sensitivity.”
    “They began with my hair, even though it is only two centimeters long. They began feeling through it, then examining behind my ears, the neck, the shoulders. They began feeling me under my bra, and then continued on to my tummy. I felt as though I was under a sexual assault,” Hunaida Ghanem, an Israeli Arab resident of Jerusalem who has a PhD from Hebrew University in sociology and a postdoctoral degree from Harvard, said as she recalled an incident at the airport in June 2009.

    *

    “I have been through searches in the U.S. But what they did here was very different. It was very humiliating,” she added.

    Since then, Ghanem has declined six invitations to attend conferences abroad, saying she finds it emotionally difficult to go to the airport.
    Training around a jacked up neck.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Ill have to look into that more....but I know they use a system of interviewing. A form of psychology and mind/body reading.
    They never even talk to people. I listened to the director of security in Israel doing an interview and they look for human factors, high emotions, quirky behavior, they look into peoples eyes as they walk by. There is no emphasis on the common "Profiling" factors of sex, race, religion...
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