I liked "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" but...

kingdong

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It was a pretty good movie, but Im not sure if I believe that guy when he says he made the movie without bias. I reccomend the movie to everyone, but Ill also point out some flaws:

1. When the side effects of roids are discussed, high estrogen wasn't even mentioned. Come on!

2. It barely touched on oral steriods.

3. These muscley guys kept talking about how they should have had the life of Arnold. Arnolds first handful of movies were all flops. He had a starlike charisma and unstoppable work ethic outside of bodybuilding that got him where he is. In fact, he was genetically gifted for it too. His personality, German coldness, and exotic accent made him what he is. Nobody whants to see Valentino blow **** up with his Jersey accent.

4. They kept cutting to young Stallone when talking about roids. He was 62 when he was caught with 2 antiageing medicines, and we still have no proof that young early Rocky was on anything.

5. He compaired EPO use to sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber or training in the mountains. The last two are real life sacrifices and pretty much part of the hard work. When your trainer gives you a free drug, not so much.

6. Their was this a section when it talked about steroids used in medicine, and it just sort of paved over the fact that just because something has medicinal purposes, dosen't neccasarily make it good for you.

7. I have trouble beleiving the movie is as unscripted as he whant's us to believe. I mean after those interviews, some of his family members could have really gotten raped in life after this came out.
 
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this is a must see movie for anyone serious about this sport.sure it doesn't touch on every aspect of things but overall its a great movie.
 
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I watched it only last week on youtube (the full movie is on there for anyone interested) and I think it was pretty well done. Obviously they couldn't go into the entirety of the medical aspect of steroid use, but I feel that that wasn't the underlying theme.

I felt it was more about the culture of condemning steroids based almost entirely on political hypocrisy rather than actual scientific, medical and moral reasons, coupled with the extreme marketing and glorification of athletes, models, wrestlers and movie stars that create delusions in the young and impressionable minds of children about their bodies, life and future.

The showing of death occurrences and ER visits due to steroid use in comparison with other legal medication/drugs was a pretty hard fact to over-look, as well as the medical professionals claiming that steroids cover the same, if not fewer, side-effects when used properly as any other drug out there.

I was just really disappointed in Arnold condemning steroid use when he used them and were a very big part in his life, career and stardom. But I guess that's politics; doing one thing today and condemning it tomorrow.

I was more interested in the mother's reaction to her boys taking steroids when given all the information is, in my opinion, no different than kids taking that focusing drug to study harder.

It's all about personal choice and where your priorities lie, and I'd like to think that in a society where information can be and is so readily available, people should not be prosecuted for making an informed decision about what they choose to put into their bodies.
 
bigpapa

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the movie was done as unbiased as possible. how unbiased can u really be tho, if you have used it yourself also? and it can't touch on every single thing also, or else it would be the same length as The Ten Commandments. i thought it gave very good information, more information than people actually know. is it going to stop demonizing steroids? hell no. for some reason it is better to be addicted to heroin or crack in this society, u'll get more sympathy.

the one thing i did not like was the interview with don hutton. i think he is just on a vengence against everything of this nature because of his son. and of course everyone would feel that way. but everyone has to look at the facts. the kid was on a abundance of anti-depressants known to give teen's suicidal tendencies before he started taking steroids. and then the psychologist who told him to stop everything, steroids and meds, cold turkey just lit the fire. of course something drastic would have happened. the doctor should have had the wherewithall to consult another physician before making that decision. and i love John Romano's response to this, it was something to the effect " there is a difference between a kid who has only had hair on his **** a couple of years using steroids, to a grown man using steroids to performance inhance" or something like that. and that is the one thing that keeps pissing me off about that situation is the parents are looking to blame everybody else, except themselves for not getting the kid the proper help.
 
kingdong

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I watched it only last week on youtube (the full movie is on there for anyone interested) and I think it was pretty well done. Obviously they couldn't go into the entirety of the medical aspect of steroid use, but I feel that that wasn't the underlying theme.

I felt it was more about the culture of condemning steroids based almost entirely on political hypocrisy rather than actual scientific, medical and moral reasons, coupled with the extreme marketing and glorification of athletes, models, wrestlers and movie stars that create delusions in the young and impressionable minds of children about their bodies, life and future.

The showing of death occurrences and ER visits due to steroid use in comparison with other legal medication/drugs was a pretty hard fact to over-look, as well as the medical professionals claiming that steroids cover the same, if not fewer, side-effects when used properly as any other drug out there.

I was just really disappointed in Arnold condemning steroid use when he used them and were a very big part in his life, career and stardom. But I guess that's politics; doing one thing today and condemning it tomorrow.

I was more interested in the mother's reaction to her boys taking steroids when given all the information is, in my opinion, no different than kids taking that focusing drug to study harder.

It's all about personal choice and where your priorities lie, and I'd like to think that in a society where information can be and is so readily available, people should not be prosecuted for making an informed decision about what they choose to put into their bodies.
This is ultimately the reason I still liked the movie and think everyone should see it. I have an interest in film making myself and beleive me, I know how hard it is to make a "perfect movie". Tghe director did an awsome job. I will add two more gripes to my initial post however, becuase with a topic like this is still foreign to a lot of people, all the cards should be out in the open.
 
kingdong

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the one thing i did not like was the interview with don hutton. i think he is just on a vengence against everything of this nature because of his son. and of course everyone would feel that way. but everyone has to look at the facts. the kid was on a abundance of anti-depressants known to give teen's suicidal tendencies before he started taking steroids. and then the psychologist who told him to stop everything, steroids and meds, cold turkey just lit the fire. of course something drastic would have happened. the doctor should have had the wherewithall to consult another physician before making that decision. and i love John Romano's response to this, it was something to the effect " there is a difference between a kid who has only had hair on his **** a couple of years using steroids, to a grown man using steroids to performance inhance" or something like that. and that is the one thing that keeps pissing me off about that situation is the parents are looking to blame everybody else, except themselves for not getting the kid the proper help.
This was actually a part that I did like, because they actually mention the flaws in Don Hutton's beliefs. Sometime the people who we let travel to schools and preach their beliefs are really just screwed up people that we should be keeping are kids away from.
 
Hyperion

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This was actually a part that I did like, because they actually mention the flaws in Don Hutton's beliefs. Sometime the people who we let travel to schools and preach their beliefs are really just screwed up people that we should be keeping are kids away from.
I agree. It's so disheartening to have to try and convince a grieving parent that your right to your own body and choices is more important then the life and death of their child, which in a sense is what it comes down to.

I can't even begin to imagine how this man must feel and I'm sure that in his heart he genuinely feels he's right and doing what's best for other children out there, but at the same time I really pity him, because if he feels steroids are the one and only contributory factor to his child's suicide, he will NEVER move on and accept the loss, ultimately making his son's end, his own.

This is where real information needs becomes apparent, and where I draw the line for "acceptable" political propaganda. You have a man suffering endlessly day and night for the WRONG reason. Would knowing that steroids might not actually have been the reason for his son's suicide be of any comfort to him?

I don't think anyone can honestly say for sure, but what is apparent is the guilt this man is living with thinking he failed his son and let him down by not protecting him from this vicious killer known as "steroids". And who does he have to thank for a GREAT portion of that guilt? His elected officials...
 
UnrealMachine

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the movie was done as unbiased as possible. how unbiased can u really be tho, if you have used it yourself also? and it can't touch on every single thing also, or else it would be the same length as The Ten Commandments. i thought it gave very good information, more information than people actually know. is it going to stop demonizing steroids? hell no. for some reason it is better to be addicted to heroin or crack in this society, u'll get more sympathy.

the one thing i did not like was the interview with don hutton. i think he is just on a vengence against everything of this nature because of his son. and of course everyone would feel that way. but everyone has to look at the facts. the kid was on a abundance of anti-depressants known to give teen's suicidal tendencies before he started taking steroids. and then the psychologist who told him to stop everything, steroids and meds, cold turkey just lit the fire. of course something drastic would have happened. the doctor should have had the wherewithall to consult another physician before making that decision. and i love John Romano's response to this, it was something to the effect " there is a difference between a kid who has only had hair on his **** a couple of years using steroids, to a grown man using steroids to performance inhance" or something like that. and that is the one thing that keeps pissing me off about that situation is the parents are looking to blame everybody else, except themselves for not getting the kid the proper help.
good points bigpapa

i think the movie was unbiased enough. the fact is that everything is dangerous, life is dangerous, driving is dangerous, skiing is dangerous, doing tricks on your bicycle is dangerous, but it is our decision to do those dangerous things.
 
bigpapa

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This was actually a part that I did like, because they actually mention the flaws in Don Hutton's beliefs. Sometime the people who we let travel to schools and preach their beliefs are really just screwed up people that we should be keeping are kids away from.
o exactly. i mean i did like that part, in that sense, to show how ****ed up his thought process is and he is going after the wrong people. it's like going after the beer company and product that someone was drinking, before they got behind the wheel, and before they killed someone in an accident. the company had nothing to do with it, it was the people who were involved, that who is at fault.
 
sluggy

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I really liked that movie. Wish the community would make more like it.
It was honest, and likable.
 
TheWriting

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It was a pretty good movie, but Im not sure if I believe that guy when he says he made the movie without bias. I reccomend the movie to everyone, but Ill also point out some flaws:

1. When the side effects of roids are discussed, high estrogen wasn't even mentioned. Come on!

2. It barely touched on oral steriods.

3. These muscley guys kept talking about how they should have had the life of Arnold. Arnolds first handful of movies were all flops. He had a starlike charisma and unstoppable work ethic outside of bodybuilding that got him where he is. In fact, he was genetically gifted for it too. His personality, German coldness, and exotic accent made him what he is. Nobody whants to see Valentino blow **** up with his Jersey accent.

4. They kept cutting to young Stallone when talking about roids. He was 62 when he was caught with 2 antiageing medicines, and we still have no proof that young early Rocky was on anything.

5. He compaired EPO use to sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber or training in the mountains. The last two are real life sacrifices and pretty much part of the hard work. When your trainer gives you a free drug, not so much.

6. Their was this a section when it talked about steroids used in medicine, and it just sort of paved over the fact that just because something has medicinal purposes, dosen't neccasarily make it good for you.

7. I have trouble beleiving the movie is as unscripted as he whant's us to believe. I mean after those interviews, some of his family members could have really gotten raped in life after this came out.
Yeah number 2 is what was definitely weird about this movie, can't believe they didn't go there.
 
ryansm

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The sad part is we have senators like the jack ass in the movie (forget his name) who are in charge of things they have no idea about. I mean the guy couldn't even answer where or how the money he was appropriated is being used.
 
kingdong

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The sad part is we have senators like the jack ass in the movie (forget his name) who are in charge of things they have no idea about. I mean the guy couldn't even answer where or how the money he was appropriated is being used.
That is true about so much more than just steroids.
 
kingdong

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Yeah number 2 is what was definitely weird about this movie, can't believe they didn't go there.
If just they would have taken 2 seconeds to say "For the duration of the movie, we'll focus on injectible steroids.
 
bigpapa

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The sad part is we have senators like the jack ass in the movie (forget his name) who are in charge of things they have no idea about. I mean the guy couldn't even answer where or how the money he was appropriated is being used.
which jackass? all of congress? lol henry waxman is just a retard, doesn't even know what the legal age is to buy alcohol or cigarettes. and i'm certain the only reason y those are legal anyways, especially cigarettes even though the multitude of health problems it causes, is because it fills the house and senates pockets. now, if pharmacies wanted to give money to congress to produce steroids, we would probably hear how great they are and how we just simply can't live without them.

and the other idiot, who claimed he was a great athlete, this whole thing basically started because of his son at ND, is now our VP Joe Biden.
 
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While most people look at it as "steroid documentary," I think it really is talking about how the entire nation is on some form of PED, yet only AAS are frowned upon. However, we love the end result of an athlete on PEDs and hold them in high esteem and almost in a sense of veneration. I especially like the scene about Carl Lewis and how he failed several tests for stimulants, yet it was kept quiet by the USOC.
 
kingdong

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While most people look at it as "steroid documentary," I think it really is talking about how the entire nation is on some form of PED, yet only AAS are frowned upon. However, we love the end result of an athlete on PEDs and hold them in high esteem and almost in a sense of veneration. I especially like the scene about Carl Lewis and how he failed several tests for stimulants, yet it was kept quiet by the USOC.
At the end of the day, this is why I believe it's still a good movie and people should see it.
 
Fanboy

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Glad you made this thread ! I watched this just a couple of days ago and did some reading after. I really liked it I felt like it did give pretty good info and also had some really good references speak about steroids.
By the end I was WAY more pissed off about the Gov than anything else.

The main thing I took away was that and addiction of any kind is the real source of problems. Steroids are just fine in my mind, but its when you become addicted to the feelings you get from them and end up supplementing them as a filler for being unhappy where the real problems begin and abuse starts.
 
Ansatsuken

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I met the creators at the O, really nice guys :)
They really need to make a follow-up video that touches on the subjects you mentioned.
It could easily be a 3-Part Documentary.
 
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The sad part is we have senators like the jack ass in the movie (forget his name) who are in charge of things they have no idea about. I mean the guy couldn't even answer where or how the money he was appropriated is being used.
I watched this a long time ago, but was the senator Joe Biden?
 

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I went to elementary school with Mike Bell (Mad Dog) and I can tell you that he really was driven by the dream. He was a good guy and it's a shame that his story had the ending that it did. I think Chris did a really good job with the movie but of course he couldn't cover every aspect of the game, it would have been longer than Avatar.
 
kingdong

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I went to elementary school with Mike Bell (Mad Dog) and I can tell you that he really was driven by the dream. He was a good guy and it's a shame that his story had the ending that it did. I think Chris did a really good job with the movie but of course he couldn't cover every aspect of the game, it would have been longer than Avatar.
Very true indeed. Their was a lot to learn from Mad Dog's story.

I agree that they couldn't fit everything in there, but to me you can't have a scene where you list the sides of roids, and only go injectible. It will only encourage people to fee safe with ALL steroids, and these are still compounds that need to be used with caution.
 

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Definitely a great move that everyone should watch, not just people involved with AAS, but also those that judge people due to their usage.
 
bigpapa

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i don't know if anybody mentioned this yet or knows, but mike bell did die about 6 months after that movie was released in theatres.
 
BabyHulk

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I felt it was more about the culture of condemning steroids based almost entirely on political hypocrisy rather than actual scientific, medical and moral reasons, coupled with the extreme marketing and glorification of athletes, models, wrestlers and movie stars that create delusions in the young and impressionable minds of children about their bodies, life and future.

The showing of death occurrences and ER visits due to steroid use in comparison with other legal medication/drugs was a pretty hard fact to over-look, as well as the medical professionals claiming that steroids cover the same, if not fewer, side-effects when used properly as any other drug out there.

I was just really disappointed in Arnold condemning steroid use when he used them and were a very big part in his life, career and stardom. But I guess that's politics; doing one thing today and condemning it tomorrow.

It's all about personal choice and where your priorities lie, and I'd like to think that in a society where information can be and is so readily available, people should not be prosecuted for making an informed decision about what they choose to put into their bodies.
Exactly.
 
kingdong

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I met the creators at the O, really nice guys :)
They really need to make a follow-up video that touches on the subjects you mentioned.
It could easily be a 3-Part Documentary.
Great idea!
 
kingdong

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i don't know if anybody mentioned this yet or knows, but mike bell did die about 6 months after that movie was released in theatres.
I did not know that! That means Mad Dog was alreadydead before I even saw the movie. Probably before it even made it to DVD.

Any idea of the cause?
 
bigpapa

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I did not know that! That means Mad Dog was alreadydead before I even saw the movie. Probably before it even made it to DVD.

Any idea of the cause?
yeah mad dog died i think dec. 19 2008. dvd came out sept 2008. from the autopsy report, the cause of death is still pretty much unknown. he was found dead in a rehab center in california. the assumption is an accidental overdose, but of course they are speculating that years of drug and steroid use did him in.
 
kingdong

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yeah mad dog died i think dec. 19 2008. dvd came out sept 2008. from the autopsy report, the cause of death is still pretty much unknown. he was found dead in a rehab center in california. the assumption is an accidental overdose, but of course they are speculating that years of drug and steroid use did him in.
It is kind of odd that they couldn't say he had overdose levels of any one thing in his blood. Maby years of bad habits really did just wear him down.
 
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Actually watching it now on netflix. Caught it a couple months ago but got bored and watching it again. Awesome movie, really shows just why everyone is so ignorant to the subject especially when we have jackass's running around speculating with no clue.
 
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I really liked it. I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the part about how a large part of the supp industry is built on BS - as good as the piece on aas.
 
kingdong

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I really liked it. I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the part about how a large part of the supp industry is built on BS - as good as the piece on aas.
That was deffinately a good scene.
 
boricuarage

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I watch it at least once a week!!
John Romano is the man!!
"where the bodies?" lol
 
waynaferd

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That movie actually gave me some new found respect for Gregg Valentino, LOL.

"Its as American as apple pie" or something close to that!!
 
kingdong

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I watch it at least once a week!!
John Romano is the man!!
"where the bodies?" lol
I wrote this in a different thread:

John Ramano makes some good points, but his logic is flawed. He always makes these grand statements about how steroids arn't dangerous because they have medical banefits, or that famouse "show me the dead bodies" quote.

1) Although my mom medicines might not be the worst things in the world, it still wouldnt be a safe idea to assume that I could take large doses of her medicine, just because the compounds do have some benefits for her.

2) Look at all the wrestlers who don't make it to 40, and just have "natural heart conditions". Im sorry, but that same percentage of early deaths from heart disease dose not exist for the steroid free community.

I do belive that steroids arn't as bad as the general population says, but i also believe that John Ramano takes things a little too far with his big grand statements in the matter.
 
waynaferd

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Chyna was on Opie and Anthony quite a few years ago and said that steroid use was the obvious drug use, since they're all in such great shape week after week after week, and enduring the constant training, but also a lot of them are partying like rock stars everynight....thats ultimately why her and "X-pac" split, and she got fired. Cause of all the other illegal drug use.

I bet good wholesome John Cena doesn't use other "recreational" drugs tho, LOL. Definately on gear tho.
 

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this is a must see movie for anyone serious about this sport.sure it doesn't touch on every aspect of things but overall its a great movie.
THIS.

It, along with ANY movie, publication or work of any kind, has it faults that can be isolated and magnified, but the film as a whole was informative and well done. An ingenious idea that millions of athletes have had but never executed on, so this film deserved the notoriety it gained.

Also, something else I'd like to highlight the OP mentioned, was that Arnold's success was in fact an indelible example of ceaseless dedication and belief in self. He far transcended the often limiting confines of bodybuilderdom, and parlayed it into something irrefutably profound, by using MANY more skills and muscles that had nothing to do with his biceps circumference.
 

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Look at all the wrestlers who don't make it to 40, and just have "natural heart conditions". Im sorry, but that same percentage of early deaths from heart disease dose not exist for the steroid free community.
Like Mickey Rourke?

In all seriousness, any enduring deleterious side effect wrought by AAS implementation can usually be accredited writ large to sheer unlearned ignorance and the refusal to engage in any prudent and calculated mitigatory countermeasures.

We often subscribe to, and thus foster, the ideal that negative effects realized intra/post AAS administration are both indicative of wide-spread anticipated and predictable effects and also irreversible. In the often clouded and obviously biased sphere of advantage-denial and vilifying that exists surrounding steroid usage, hyperbole and skewing is a common practice, but we can never overlook the far more common place underlying root cause where idiocy is concerned.

Anadrol, Halotestin, and Methandrostenolone taken concomitantly without cessation, cycling, post therapy, or organ support can and WILL reap harmful undeniable medical ramifications - whereas the aware and discerning mature athlete who endeavors to manifest quality muscle without sacrificing self, will maintain a life of health and muscle bolstering fulfillment.

It's not neurosurgery. Don't be an unlearned tool engaging in ingesting multiple compound you can't pronounce, yet alone properly introduce into your training toils. Many athletes of yesteryear certainly didn't have the amassed body of science and empirical evidence with such availability at their fingertips, as we enjoy and many times neglect today. Thus, eventuating a slightly more prevalent side effect pool.
 

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