You guys are making my Friday..some funny chit.. speaking of
We love to contemplate.Originally Posted by TheBGRigatoni
Still on the fence about the dose and delivery on this product. Can't press order button just yet lol.
4ad products??? thats goin back!!! in fact thats goin back to square one for PA!
Im sure he used it then when he was passionate about increasing efficacy of hormones but having not used it since and having the ability to sell people 3 bottles of Ursobolic a month off his name associated with bringing another new thing to the market I think makes him not ignorant but a businessman... and a smart one at that...
I still think the possibility is it didnt occur to him in this situation or just didnt feel the need to bother to sell more BUT it DID occur to FRL to do such a thing given their ties to AMS and basically the whole AMS line being Cyclo products with the few powder exceptions...
iForceHemavol=He-man?-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/187487-hemavol-heman-doughs.htmlCompound 20 Beta log-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/185396-molding-dough-compound.html
I'll be waiting for him as I wanted to run some ursobolic or something to help my cholesterol levels after mdrol smashes them.Originally Posted by TheBGRigatoni
Hey guys sorry for the delays in replies. We had all sorts of issues come up and we needed to fix them.
Originally the plan was to complex the UA in cyclodextrin. We wanted to do this because it increases the solubility of UA 200 times. But we got bad news.
We used a new manufacturer, who basically priced it as complexed. We thought we were good to go. By the time they completed and we had labels printed and we tested the final product we found all they did was blend our UA with cyclodextrins. They didn't actually complex it which is what really matters. At this point we went back to them but they want to charge a ridiculous amount for complexing the product. Egh
So where does that leave us. The cyclo in the product doesn't actually improve solubility. So this is just plain ole UA.
However the additions of piperine and forskolin still work well with UA. We are also continuing to pursue a manufacturer who can appropriately complex the cyclos.
FRL sincerely apologizes for this error. But hopefully this provides some clarification.
Advanced Muscle Science/ForeRunner Labs (East Coast Sales Manager)
"The Strongest On The Market"
I went ahead and purchased two bottles. I've heard good things about FRL as a company so I figured the gamble is worth it. I have 1.5 bottles of ursobolic left that I'll be finishing up before I switch over to try Ursol-XT, though. I started out with 4 bottles of ursobolic and have been running at 9/day mostly (I've ran a few cheat days at 12/day). I know it's purely anecdotal (however, most customer reviews are), but I'm visibly leaner and weight hasn't fluctuated more than a pound. I've also noticed some appetite suppression as well. I figure, if anything, Ursol-XT will be sufficient enough to produce results regardless of whether the cyclodextrin truly helps or not.
If the dose of UA per 4 caps turns out to be too low for my tastes, I'll trying adding 1-2 caps of ursobolic with it.
Edit: I see Royds post claims exactly what I was figuring. PA had said in another thread that the cyclo had to be complexed. Like I said, no big deal. I'm probably going to just switch back and forth between EPharm and FRL if Ursol-XT checks out. I don't understand why some people on this board have an undying loyalty to a company or make it a mission to bash anything that comes out of someone's mouth (no names, they know who they are).
World J Gastroenterol. 2006 Feb 14;12(6):874-9.Anti-hepatoma activity and mechanism of ursolic acid and its derivatives isolated from Aralia decaisneana.
Tian Z, Lin G, Zheng RX, Huang F, Yang MS, Xiao PG.
Department of Pharmacology, Institute of Medicinal Plant Development, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, Peking Union Medical College, Beijing 100094, China. firstname.lastname@example.org
To investigate the anti-tumor activity of ursolic acid (UA) and its derivatives isolated from Aralia decaisneana on hepatocellular carcinoma both in vitro and in vivo.
In vivo cytotoxicity was first screened by 3-[4,5-dimethylthiazol-2-yl]-2, 5-diphenyltetrazolium bromide (MTT) assay. Morphological observation, DNA ladder, flow cytometry analysis, Western blot and real time PCR were employed to elucidate the cytotoxic mechanism of UA. Implanted mouse hepatoma H22 was used to evaluate the growth inhibitory effect of UA in vivo.
UA could significantly inhibit the proliferation of HepG2 and its drug-resistance strain, R-HepG2 cells, but had no inhibitory effect on primarily cultured normal mouse hepatocytes whereas all the six derivatives of UA could not inhibit the growth of all tested cell lines. Further study on mechanism demonstrated that apoptosis and G0/G1 arrest were involved in the cytotoxicity and cleavage of poly-(ADP-ribose)-polymerase (PARP). Downregulation of cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2) protein and upregulation of heat shock protein (HSP) 105 mRNA correlated to the apoptosis of HepG2 cells treated with UA. In addition, UA also could inhibit the growth of H22 hepatoma in vivo.
UA is a promising anti-tumor agent, but further work needs to be done to improve its solubility.
PMID: 16521214 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Free full text
AAPS PharmSciTech. 2009;10(4):1137-44. Epub 2009 Oct 16.The influence of cosolvent on the complexation of HP-beta-cyclodextrins with oleanolic acid and ursolic acid.
Li R, Quan P, Liu DF, Wei FD, Zhang Q, Xu QW.
Department of Pharmaceutics, School of Pharmacy, Nanjing Medical University, 140 Hanzhong Road, 210029, Nanjing, People's Republic of China.
The present work was aimed at the influence of ethanol on the complex formation of hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin (HP-beta-CD) with oleanolic acid (OA) and ursolic acid (UA), two insoluble isomeric triterpenic acids. Phase solubility studies were carried out to evaluate the solubilizing power of HP-beta-CD, in association with ethanol, toward OA and UA. A mathematical model was applied to explain and predict the solubility of OA and UA influenced by HP-beta-CD and ethanol. The solid complexes were prepared by evaporating the filtrate of samples which was prepared in different complexing media. The solubility of OA is much higher than that of UA in all the tested aqueous solutions. The solubility of OA and UA can be increased over 900 and 200 times, respectively, by forming complex with HP-beta-CD. Ethanol (0.5%, v/v) can help the formation of OA-HP-beta-CD complex, but is harmful to the formation of UA-HP-beta-CD complex. Increasing solubility in water can be achieved by adding ethanol into the complexing media, but the concentration of ethanol should be optimized. The ring E of the chemical compounds has a great influence on the complexing process.
PMID: 19834815 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] PMCID: PMC2799583
Free PMC Article
So the product was pitched one way but doesn't actually meet the claims as admitted. Does the product still go out at the same price? I think half off sounds like a good deal to clear stock and rush the new batch into production.
Would dosing it a little higher be bad because of the extra forskolin in there?
BTW, mad props to you guys for living up to your mistake. Takes a lot to do that. Though I have yet to try a product from you guys Ill be more inclined to try one now that I know how legit you guys are.
Good job guys!